Mec 600 jr. problems

[megasupermagnum]

I've been fighting my 600 jr. for a long time. I can't believe I've just been fighting it for as many thousands of shells I've loaded on it. Anyway, the problems all revolve around alignment problems. The main shaft has a ton of wobble. I can wobble the machine a good 1/2" either way. In the past I've just shoved something in the size, forcing it left, and living with it. Crimps were never great, but always functional. I've recently tried to get the shaft centered, and when I do, the crimp starter is WAY off, probably 1/4". I can't adjust the shell plate at all. I could try and slot the hole to make the crimp starter adjustable, but I can't believe it can be so far off. On top of that, what started this all is I ended up breaking my crimp starter. I bought new ones, both a 6 and an 8 point. Now even loading like I have for many years, the crimp has a huge split in it. The inside of the starters have huge ribs for what I imagine are alignment. The problem is they fit so tight, they end up essentially crimping the outside of the hull, and with my huge alignment problem, end up ruining the shell entirely. To add to that, another problem may just be a characteristic of MEC. The crimp finisher is very finicky. The best crimps come from mostly non-compressible heavy loads like steel shot. When the load is compressible, it seems the cam adjustment is a very fine line. Sometimes I just leave it loose, and re-run them with it tighter. Some things, like round balls are just plain impossible to crimp with it. The alignment with the shell doesn't seem too bad on the finisher, at least not like the starter. I've gone to loading back on my Load All II for now, I forgot how well this thing works, it just lacks the last punch to tightly crimp heavy loads. Can anyone point me in the right direction to fix the MEC? I'm thinking of drilling and tapping both sides of the base, and using screws to center the main shaft.

[Hogtamer]

Broke the crimp starter? I don't see how that's even possible as the only thing it comes in contact with is the mouth of the plastic hull. Maybe time to part that one out and start over?

[jaguarxk120]

There is a bolt that holds the main shaft or column in place. Tighten this bolt or see if it is missing.

The main column should be tight in the base plate.

[Petrol & Powder]

You've got something loose or broken.

I'm with jaguarxk120 - check the bolt on the main shaft. The main column should be tight in the base plate just as jaguar said. Look for cracks or broken pieces.

I guess there's some chance the machine is just worn out but I've seen MEC's go a longgggg time. It's a pretty simple/solid design.

[243winxb]

There is a bolt that holds the main shaft or column in place. Tighten this bolt or see if it is missing.
+1 Old models, the bolt is in the back. New model in the front. A shim may keep it in adjustment.

Crimp and Taper parts are different between the old and new models.
There are 3 adjustments.
essentially crimping the outside of the hull One even applies a taper to the case.

Change anything, hull, wad , amount of shot, the Mec will need adjustments.

New model on left.

[swheeler]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Look on the back of the base where the main shaft drops in, 9/16 bolt head tighten this up.

Mine is older model

[megasupermagnum]

Of course I've tried tightening that bolt, but you can't just rely on that. It has to be square first, and even then, over the course of loading shells, it works its way to the side. How I broke the crimp starter? It's easy when it falls off and you step on it. I have the old model by the way, except I have all plastic parts. Maybe some pictures will help.

[megasupermagnum]

Not much to see here, but you can see the gap. I've been using screwdrivers to shim it to the side for years, but I'm considering using set screws to truly get it square.
213096

More importantly is this misalignment. It used to work somewhat with the old starter, but now it's just plain doesn't work.
213101

Here is the inside of the new crimp starter. Notice the thick ribs below the actual crimping portion. These are actually smaller than the shotgun shell, and do not go over the end easy.
213097

This is what you end up with, and while they go bang, my old hand lee loader does a better job. These are some of the better shells I've made since getting the new crimp starters. I'm considering just grinding off those ribs.
213098

Here is a link to a video of me showing the play with the bolt loose. It has been this way since I first got it, I would hope they don't come that way brand new. Realize this is set for 2 3/4", it's even worse for 3", and terrible when set at 3 1/2".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRQ3tKgOkaQ&feature=youtu.be

[Rally]

From looking at your pictures, it is apparent you need to raise the adjustment on your final crimp station. It is set way to deep and then adjust the cam on the back of it to get the amount the final crimps or closes the final crimp. Those two loaded shells you have pictured appear to have been crimped with an 8 point starter crimp and appear to be a six star crimp on the shell.
You will probably also need to raise the starter crimp station, which should only just start to close the crimp. The starter position is not designed to close, say more than about 30% of the crimp, but designed to just separated the pleats and guide them into there respective 6 or eight point forms.
Federal casings are also not known for great finished crimps, especially the 6 point versions. They are made of fairly stiff plastic and just don't form well, unless you have a heat source.
You can adjust the wobble out by getting some shim stock and making a shim, to be placed on the shaft where it goes through the base. You may also consider buying a new bolt that holds the base to the shaft before re-assembling the press. If you've been using it loose for an extended period of time, it most likely has been "wallowed" out some. Reassemly with a thread locking agent, like Loctite 242 wouldn't hurt either.

[skeettx]

On the picture of the post (1st picture) , you have a bolt going from front to back
Is is TIGHT?
Let's start there and work up
Mike

p.s.
You live anywhere near Amarillo??
We can fix it shortly in my shop

[bdicki]

I've never known a 600jr to load 3.5 inch shells.
https://www.mecshootingsports.com/Content/documents/600jr.pdf

[243winxb]

The main shaft has a ton of wobble. I can wobble the machine a good 1/2" either way.

The fit where the main shaft passes through the base plate has to be a snug fit? The bolt should hold the bottom?? Not sure as i didnt take mine apart. Photo of my 12 ga. set up for 2 3/4" shells.

I didnt think 3 1/2" shells could be loaded on it?

If you think a parts replacement would fix it, contact Mec.

They sent me a new powder measure body to replace one that was out of specification. Had to return the old one on my dime.

[jaguarxk120]

Hey they sent a new one didn't they. Some company's want 50% of the part cost and the old part back.


The OP needs to back to step one and read the owners manual. The bolt that holds the main shaft (the square shaft)
needs to be tight.

600JR machines do not load 3 1/2 inch shells, if your will then someone altered the machine. Once someone goes down the road of being smarter than the manufacturer -- you are on your own. No one can help you since
you have, redesigned, made better, in your eyes, than the maker!

[megasupermagnum]

From looking at your pictures, it is apparent you need to raise the adjustment on your final crimp station. It is set way to deep and then adjust the cam on the back of it to get the amount the final crimps or closes the final crimp. Those two loaded shells you have pictured appear to have been crimped with an 8 point starter crimp and appear to be a six star crimp on the shell.
You will probably also need to raise the starter crimp station, which should only just start to close the crimp. The starter position is not designed to close, say more than about 30% of the crimp, but designed to just separated the pleats and guide them into there respective 6 or eight point forms.
Federal casings are also not known for great finished crimps, especially the 6 point versions. They are made of fairly stiff plastic and just don't form well, unless you have a heat source.
You can adjust the wobble out by getting some shim stock and making a shim, to be placed on the shaft where it goes through the base. You may also consider buying a new bolt that holds the base to the shaft before re-assembling the press. If you've been using it loose for an extended period of time, it most likely has been "wallowed" out some. Reassemly with a thread locking agent, like Loctite 242 wouldn't hurt either.

I appreciate the help, I really do, but I've had this thing over a decade. You guys don't think I've tried tightening a bolt in all that time? Mine can load 3 1/2". I've never touched it, I bought it that way, and it never crossed my mind that some can't. As you can see in the video I posted, there is a ton of play. You can get the bolt super tight, but you are still relying on friction to hold it, which doesn't work. The bolt doesn't move, but the whole upper part can. The pictures of the shells are 8 point, crimped with an 8 point starter. The starter is adjusted as high as it goes. Now you see the problem. I don't claim to be smarter than MEC, but this thing has to be altered, it does not operate properly as is. I will try calling MEC tomorrow to see what they say.

[MusicMan]

Some times things just wear out and need to be replaced.

[swheeler]

Take the bolt out and buy another about 3/8 longer, clean the mainshaft, bolt and threads, put a drop of red loctite on the threads, take the new bolt you bought and thread it in from the front(both holes are threaded)to be a stop screw. Christ if that doesn't work, line up the shaft where you want it and tack weld shaft to frame. I've had mine since the 80's and still rock solid, never tightened the bolt and only loaded, don't make me lie now,;-) so will just say a pickup box full on it.

[edp2k]

One of the MEC manuals says that you can buy a 3 1/2 kit for a 600 jr, so they probably sold them that way also.
I leave it as as exercise for the student to dig the manual and page out of the pdf's on the MEC website

Is the bolt bottoming out on the threads before actually clamping the shaft and chassis together tightly?

[megasupermagnum]

Why is everyone so obsessed about the bolt? If that is all that holds a MEC straight I'll just end my search here and look for a better brand. I already have my eyes on a Ponsness-Warren 375.

As for loading 3 1/2", I see no reason to need any kit. All I do is use the top bolt hole and bottom threaded hole. It loads 3 1/2" just as well (or poorly) as 3" or 2 3/4". Mine will even load 2 1/2". I almost bought a 10 gauge kit for it once, and I didn't see any thing different but different dies. The frame's seem to all be the same.

[Rally]

Mega,
I have 4 of the 600 Jr.'s, the oldest around 40 years old. I went back and looked at the pictures of your dies and I've never seen anything on a Mec that resembles your dies. You mentioned you bought it used and I was wondering if maybe someone made or adapted those dies to the Mec. It kinda looks like those dies came off an old Texan or Herters press. Could you post some better pictures of the press and stations?

[rking22]

I've got 5 or 6 mec 600s ,several over 40 years old, none are loose at all. I think you may not have the correct 12 GA crimp starter. Looks kinda like a 20 , but take a factory shell and see if it will slide over the crimped end by at least 1/8 inch, seems you may be starting with the lead in bevel. Agree that those do not look like mec dies, could have been to make it load 3 1/2 . I have modified my 16 to load 2 9/16 , not rocket science. The 600 will crimp a first reloaded hull so that it looks factory, once adjusted correctly. I had a Lee loadall, not terrible but not close to the mec in quality. PW is at another higher lever, in cost too! Mecs are great for the money. I just pay ,generally, 50$ for a used press rather than buying conversion diesets. No fiddling with the setup every time it's changed either. They are out there, and I really doubt you can wear out a 600, plastic parts yes but they are cheap to replace. You got a good press , just gotta figure out what's happening. I'll look at one in the morning and see if I can make it loose, then we may know what's happening.

[megasupermagnum]

The 600 will crimp a first reloaded hull so that it looks factory, once adjusted correctly. I had a Lee loadall, not terrible but not close to the mec in quality. PW is at another higher lever, in cost too!

I'm not so sure. My load-all II seems to be getting more and more use, which is why I'm trying to fix the MEC. The Lee is a fully functional press, albeit limited in heavy duty use. The de-prime is better than MEC, the priming is about equal, but Lee has the 600jr. beat in resizing 10 times over. The 600jr. "works" on target hulls, while scratching them up, but is totally useless on any kind of taller brass. The de-priming is a PITA. It's possibly connected to my misalignment problems, but I always had to push the shell back and to the right perfectly for the primer to pop out. I hated buying charge bars, so I bought the universal bar. It meters small amounts of shot ok (over 1 1/4 oz bridges and makes a mess), but powder doesn't measure accurately at all. I either use my powder measure or lee scoops. The load-all bushings, while not always dropping what they say, are acceptably accurate, and work. Guys always rag on the crimping. Well I've loaded a bunch of 12ga on my load-all and it works. It's not a very deep crimp, but it beats what my MEC is doing now. I've been loading all my 16 gauge ammo on the Lee, and it does good on that too. This is not a pro-Lee, anti-MEC thing. It has just been my experience that people see the 600 jr. as a step above the load-all II, and I see them as equals. The Lee just plain works, and while the MEC can provide tighter crimps, IMHO, it is not fully functioning out of the box. I don't think I was even 16 when I got this MEC, and it wasn't much longer that I bought a Supersizer to go with it, and a universal charge bar, and a powder measure, etc...

[trapper9260]

I have read your post and maybe just send the press to Mec and see what they will say. Then go from there. Since you try everything else and what was stated. It will cost to send it and all but if they are able to fix it,it will be less then buy a new press.

[tomme boy]

If you think the Lee is a better press then you need to just throw the MEC away and get another LEE. Problem solved right? Or better yet send that MEC to me, I will fix it and use it.

[jaguarxk120]

If you think the Lee is a better press then you need to just throw the MEC away and get another LEE. Problem solved right? Or better yet send that MEC to me, I will fix it and use it.

If you can't fix it I'll give it a try.

The picture's of the loaded shell's the OP posted had to come from a load all. When a MEC is setup right loads will come out just like factory.

If the OP has problems with a MEC I just wonder how he will do with other brands?

[bdicki]

The crimp starter should be marked as to gauge.

[megasupermagnum]

If you can't fix it I'll give it a try.

The picture's of the loaded shell's the OP posted had to come from a load all. When a MEC is setup right loads will come out just like factory.

If the OP has problems with a MEC I just wonder how he will do with other brands?

Those pictured shells are the best my MEC will currently produce. What I don't get is why I asked for some advanced help, and all I get is a bunch of guys I've never even seen on the shotgun section before, coming on and insulting my intelligence. This is not a simple adjustment problem.

The crimp starter is marked 12ga. I'll post the pictures of all the dies...

213172
213173

The more you guys talk about "customizing" the more I have to wonder if mine isn't a collection of old parts someone sold me. The main shaft fits very loose in the slot. The head, while fitting reasonably well, is way off. The more I look at the, the more I find problems. As I knew already, the de-priming station is off, by about 3/16". I already stated, but the crimp starter is off at least 1/4", and in the other direction from the de-priming station. The final crimp is close enough, but not perfect either. I have to wonder if this isn't a newer top half on a old style base.

I called MEC, they had never heard of such things. Said I could send it in, and have it fixed for $65 an hour. Not going to happen. I am more than capable of figuring this out, unfortunately is seems it's time to modify. I'm going to use set screws to hold the shaft tight and square. I'll need to remove the head, and slot the holes on the de-priming station, and crimp starter. I'll try grinding out the ribs in the crimp starter and see how that goes. I do have a brass BPI 6 point that works well. Maybe I'll just have to get an 8 point version. Once that's taken care of, it should be functional.

[Budzilla 19]

I, myself,in my opinion only, think you hit the nail on the head with your statement about the mixed up parts are causing you some grief! Try a full set of dies from mec and change all the dies and everything! Might solve your problems,you never know! Certainly cheaper than a new press. Again, just my humble opinion! Good luck.

[Rally]

Mega,
Is the bolt holding the square shaft to the base in the bottom hole of the base? I can't tell from the picture, but the bolt needs to be in the bottom hole of the base and the bottom hole of the square shaft to load 2 3/4" shells. Also you have a nut spacer between the priming stem and the top frame which shouldn't be there unless you were loading 3" shells. On all of my 600's, when they are set up to load 2 3/4 shells, I can see just half of the hole in the base and half of the top hole in the shaft. It appears from your pictures you are not using the correct holes for 2 3/4' loading. This would make a pretty dramatic difference in length, alignment, and crimp adjustments.
It appears you have an older press with newer dies. The older dies were all metal final crimp dies, and starter crimp. I think you just have the press set up to load 3" hulls and are trying to load 2 3/4: hulls. Going from 2 3/4" to 3" takes a lot of adjustment on most types of hulls.

[rking22]

.
On the wobble, mine wobbles like yours when I loosen the bolt a turn, it's pretty stiff if the bolt is finger tight. Bolt should be 3/8 16 thread, yours may be wrong thread, if so your main column threads are bad. I would remove the bolt and lift the main column out, look for something interfeering with it pulling up tight. Your missalingment points to some interference. Remove the spring and she'll holder then replace the column and finger snug the bolt, what do you feel/ notice. Then proceed with what is learned. You are running a mixed set of mec dies and missing the wad guide.With the misalignment you describe there is no way a wad guide would work! Suspect you were sold someone else's problem, but they are straight forward and you can fix it. It's nice to have a correct one to check against but we can help you with that.
OK, don't grind the ribs out of the crimp starter, you will just need to buy another with ribs! I hate the new plastic things too but they work well. When you pull the lever while starting crimp, try short stroke till you feel the resistance increase, stop and look at the crimp. Should be folding along the original lines and have about 1/4 inch opening. Adjust to get this at full stroke, or just pullnto feel.

Pull the column and test as I described then get back and we'll go from there. Gotta be frustrating, I understand!!

[Rally]

rking22,
I believe you are correct about the starter crimp being for a 20 ga. Rim looks too thick to be a 12. Also interesting the wad guide is gone, which requires being disassembled to remove.

Mega,
What part of the state do you live in. Reason I ask is that Superior Shooters Supply in Superior, Wi. has quite a few Mec parts in stock and a 600 you could look at to compare to yours. If your close to me I'd be happy to check it out.

[megasupermagnum]

rking22,
I believe you are correct about the starter crimp being for a 20 ga. Rim looks too thick to be a 12. Also interesting the wad guide is gone, which requires being disassembled to remove.

Mega,
What part of the state do you live in. Reason I ask is that Superior Shooters Supply in Superior, Wi. has quite a few Mec parts in stock and a 600 you could look at to compare to yours. If your close to me I'd be happy to check it out.

I'm near St. Cloud, there are a number of places around to find MEC's including fleet farm and guns n' gear store. I took the wad guide off because the thing is dumb. It works with target loads with smaller wads, but half of what I load is hunting loads. The crimp starter is a 12 gauge, and I'll have to deal with that later. My MEC is completely dissembled now, I've found plenty of things I can do to help it fit together better. Hopefully this time tomorrow it will be working again.

[Plate plinker]

:popcorn: For the money if you cannot fix it your self its probably better to purchase another one new. $65 per hour from MEC is kinda salty.

[rking22]

I would not slot holes for primer and starter, I'll bet a dollar to a donut they are in the right place and when you find the origin of the wobble they will be in the right place. One thing at a time, and deal with the root cause first.
There should be no problem with the wad guide and hunting loads, that's why I still have 600s. My target loads are loaded on progressives, hunting loads on 600s, I don't like fiddling with setup. Fix the alignment and I bet most other things will be healed as well.
Will the bolt screw all the way thru the square column now that it's apart?
With a magnifying glass and a light I found the 12 on my started, never knew it was there, can also see it in your pic. Now that I know where to look, learn somthing ever day!

[Rally]

Mega,
I'm escorting my wife on a small buying trip the next two days. We are staying at the Mille Lacs casino and will be at Mille Lacs Unclaimed freight tomorrow some time. If you want to meet me somewhere I'm pretty sure I could get it working correctly. My shop # is 218-697-8113 if interested.

[bdicki]

The wad guide is used to prevent the wad from catching the edge of the hull causing the lip of hull to fold in a little and screw up the crimp.

[rking22]

Another thing to check, there are at least 2 versions of resize body attachment. One version locates with very fine threads on the top of the tube screwing into the upper head. The other has no threads in the upper head and locates by an inner assb I can't remember the details and the only one I have like that is on loan. Anyway these do not work well with the other frame. Could complicate your issue if it is crossed.
Another thing I had forgotten, I use a 16ga or 20ga drop tube to reduce binding in steel wads, and some lead 1 1/4 wads.

[robert6715]

Why is everyone so obsessed about the bolt? If that is all that holds a MEC straight I'll just end my search here and look for a better brand. I already have my eyes on a Ponsness-Warren 375.

The bolt is what holds it straight, via friction between the main shaft & the base. Your press either has a stripped bolt, striped bolt hole, the wrong bolt (if it has a shoulder not allowing it to tighten all the way down), or something inbetween the base & shaft that is modifying the friction (lube, powder dust, loose paint).

Tighten that bolt tighter than you think it needs to be, with an actual wrench or socket, not a pair of pliers.

Not trying to be rude, but, your problem of the main shaft rocking back & forth is a problem with the bolt.

Rob

[Hogtamer]

That's a nice offer Rally. Mega, I'd let the man help me. No joy in what you're doing. I've got a couple of mecs and load-alls and use the lee for all my slugs and buck since I weigh charges anyway. Do finish the crimp sometimes in the mec for a tight taper on the crimp. Get the stack just right with the lee and it's all the tool you need though.

[megasupermagnum]

I appreciate the offer Rally, but it seems I'm making progress. With it completely apart, I can take the head, the column, and the base and slide them together. When on top of each other, they seem to be aligned perfectly. As for the bolt, I'm sure I could get it tight enough at some point, but having to crank that thing to 100 ftlb's is just a piss poor design IMO. I changed it to an allen head, which allows me to crank on it much harder. It seems solid, but eventually it slowly slips and you end up scratching your head as to why the crimps start becoming inconsistent. Again, this is a non-issue with little 1 1/8 oz target loads. I'm talking solid wad buckshot, and steel shot loads. I'm half way through what I hope will fix it. I'm drilling holes in the sides to lock the shaft solid. The set screws will hold it from rocking side to side, and the rear (original) bolt will then only have to hold it vertically.

[tomme boy]

Do you have anything to use as a shim to stick in the square hole? 4 pieces bent at a 90* and slid into the hole should align it up.

[megasupermagnum]

I'll get more pictures tomorrow when everything is done. I cleaned everything up, and tapped the base for side bolts. I looked everything over real good and found some trouble. I totally eliminated the slop in the main column, and got it reasonably square. The shaft itself is straight, but the top plate on the base is not flat at all. It seems the welding done when it was built has warped it all the way around. It's not terrible, but it's off about 1/8", measured at the top of the shaft using a square. The shaft also favors slightly forward, which makes sense with how far off the de-priming is. I'll try some shims to bring it back. The shell plate does not fit properly, but that shouldn't be a big deal. I'll just drill the hole the next size bigger, and file out the square section that fits around the shaft. Then I should be able to set it perfectly. With a little luck, it won't be too far off when I get it back together.

[trapper9260]

Glad to see you are finding a way to fix it. Some time ago I got a Mec on ebay for 410 of the 600 and there was no shim in it like you going to do and I fix it and had to replace some other parts.now it is working fine. I have 2 other Mecs but got them at the time new. It was just a idea about to have Mec check for you . but for what they asking I do not blame you for doing what you are now.Rally is very helpful.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I can relate to your MEC 600 problems as I've been through the same ordeal! On top of my head I can remember the following modifications:

Milled a u-shaped latch to remove play between the square column and the base plate.
Modified the sizing die to fully eject (very) high brass shells.
Made a full-length steel bushing for the crimp die to prevent bulging of the shells.
Modified the crimp plunger cam.
Modified the crimp plunger to allow for a deeper crimp.

These days I only load slugs, and then only use roll crimp.

[megasupermagnum]

I can relate to your MEC 600 problems as I've been through the same ordeal! On top of my head I can remember the following modifications:

Milled a u-shaped latch to remove play between the square column and the base plate.
Modified the sizing die to fully eject (very) high brass shells.
Made a full-length steel bushing for the crimp die to prevent bulging of the shells.
Modified the crimp plunger cam.
Modified the crimp plunger to allow for a deeper crimp.

These days I only load slugs, and then only use roll crimp.

A full-length crimping die sounds interesting, it's actually why I really want the PW 375. I'm kind of relieved someone else has gone through this. I spent a ton of time searching for people who have had problems like I have, and there are none. I did find someone else on 16ga.com who had crimp starter problems like I did, and he ground the ribs out of it to fix it.

[Scorpion8]

I, myself,in my opinion only, think you hit the nail on the head with your statement about the mixed up parts are causing you some grief!

Agreed. I have two used MEC-600 Jrs and they were both a puzzle mishmash of wrong parts or parts installed improperly. I've been refurb'ing them with new parts and adjusted most everything.

[tomme boy]

You do know that they make a 6 point and a 8 point pre-crimp right?

[megasupermagnum]

I think I got everything squared away. I've decided since it's such a process to setup perfectly, to set it up for 3" and use the adapter to load 2 3/4". Once I got the main column as square to the base as possible, the rest was easy. I filed the square for the shell plate a little, and this allowed me all the adjustment I needed. I am still waiting on some parts. I found the de-prime punch was either cross threaded or just crooked, so a new one should help. A bolt was badly bent for the handle linkage. I also bought a whole new final crimp die assembly. The parts cleaner took the finish off the head, so I painted that. I just gave up on the plastic crimp starters, since I already have the brass ones that work much better. As you can see in the photos, the alignment is much better, bordering on perfect. Once I get the parts in, It should have no problems crimping anymore.

Here is the side adjustment bolt to align and hold the main column side to side play. I threaded the other side too, but it was not needed in my case.
213436

Here you can see the crimp starter is aligned perfectly. When I started it was at least 1/4" off.

213437

213438

[Plate plinker]

Better than new. Way to go.

[Smoke4320]

2 years ago I decided that I wanted to learn all I could about Mec shotgun presses .. Bought 1 of each model off ebay starting with a 600 then a 650 then a 8567 Grabber then 2 9000 1 manual and 1 Hydraulic

Starting from scratch buying used presses was a real learning experience . without fail every one was misadjusted or missing parts or both in most cases .. I would fix one sell it off then buy the next model in line
the hydraulic was a real head scratcher .. it was totally misadjusted, screwed up ect .. watching the videos on Mec's website solved most of my issues but the hydraulic one required a call to mec's techs .. The gentleman there was very helpful diagnosed the issue and a couple parts moved, flipped and adjusted and a working press was had ..

I am glad you have yours working . when adjusted correctly and with the correct components they can make some fine reloads

[243winxb]

megasupermagnum, nice fix.

[rking22]

Nicely done, I like the crimp starter! I have come to believe that most mecs get sold after the owner has gotten it totally goofed up and given up on getting it working again. They load excellent ammo when adjusted. I have only bought one new, my first in 1974. Most of my used finds were just out of adjustment, but most all were missing parts. Having started with a "whole" one made life easier later! Mec is present at many shoots and frequently will give you small parts and screws. I bought a box of mec "junk" when a local gun shop changed hands, has been handy as I hate ordering stuff.
Good job on the reverb, you will be pleased with the outcome!

[jsizemore]

If you do decide to get a PW 375 make sure you get a 375C or plan on buying the "C" tooling if you plan on shooting in a auto or pump. The older models don't taper crimp.

[megasupermagnum]

If you do decide to get a PW 375 make sure you get a 375C or plan on buying the "C" tooling if you plan on shooting in a auto or pump. The older models don't taper crimp.

I've been looking for one used, but they just don't seem to come up for a reasonable price. The progressive 800's I can get for $350 no problem, but the 375 seems to be way too much. I even offered a guy $400 for one that also had a 3" conversion, and some other stuff, but was turned down. I'm still thinking about getting one, but It will most likely be brand new. So far my MEC is doing the job. I've loaded about 500 shells on it over the past week and a half, just target loads. It does a perfectly acceptable job, but part of me wishes to see perfect, better than factory crimps. I just don't think the MEC is capable. I've got other things I want to happen before getting a new press though.

[tomme boy]

That crimp starter is a 6 point you are using on a 8 point. Checking to see if you have a 8 point one. It makes a big difference in how your crimp comes out

[megasupermagnum]

That crimp starter is a 6 point you are using on a 8 point. Checking to see if you have a 8 point one. It makes a big difference in how your crimp comes out

Sigh... Yes I can count. That shell is a 6 point.


The problem with MEC is that the final crimp does the taper first, then the punch. It works, but leaves the top of the crimp wavy, and cosmetically flawed. I purchased a brand new die, and if anything, it's worse than the old one. For whatever reason, the punch is not centered, and may be a little crooked (one side of the crimp is .005"-.010" deeper than the other). This may go back to the misalignment I had with my press. I can't make it any better, it was warped from the factory. Functionally, they are as good as anything. Yes, it will load Remington STS's very well, what doesn't? I can probably close one of those shells with my bare hands and make it look good.

[upnorthwis]

The only thing I worry about that's "cosmetically flawed" is women.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not that worried either, and I'm not sure any machine can do that much better. The only thing I know for sure will give better than factory crimps is a Gaep crimp finisher tool.

[MOA]

I sympathize with you Mega. I got my first 600 jr used back in 1980. A demo at a gun shop. Was able to get all the missing parts via a friend out at the trap club. It was a 12 ga. I then bought just the dies for 16 ga, but it was a real PITA to change and readjust. Oh no, did I not learn anything.... I then go and buy a set of 10 ga dies too. Well most 600 loaders will shaken their heads when someone is trying to load 3-1/2 in shells on a 600 jr. Yup, did I say a real PITA. So I quit all the pain in setting it up for anything except 12 ga. Years go by, I'm back working at a f
Gun shop.....heck why not call MEC and have them send me two 600jr frames only, no dies, I'll put mine in and away we go..........well not quite so much. I finally get around setting these two new frames up with my old dies 18 years later and nothing is aligning correctly, deprimer is off the hole by 1/4 inch, crimp off too. Well I call MEC, after much discussion and a few photos via email it was discovered that at the MEC factory when these frames were being assembled someone put the "TOP CAP" (the plate that all the dies are attached to) to the SIZEMASTER onto the 600jr. Wow, what a screwup, I thought I was losing my mind cause I know how these things go together. Anyhow, MEC sent me two new caps and all was corrected. Also Mega, it is IMHO that the old style pre crimp, and final crimp dies (the ones made of real metal) are the best in turning out top quality crimps and shells. I feel your frustration, cause I have been there and I do not consider myself dumb. I have 4 MEC 600jr's (10, 12, 16, and 20ga), and a Pacific DL-155 along with an old style PW 375 duo-matic setup for 12 and 16ga.
Here is just a thought, keep watching ebay for someone selling just the pre crimp and final finishing dies that are the old style metal ones, I'm watching now for one in 20 ga.

[kenyerian]

MOA is right on the metal pre-crimp and finishing dies. I have 4 mecs and prefer the metal dies.

[megasupermagnum]

That is interesting. I got mine working well enough for my purposes, but it's still not what I would call great. The pre-crimp is perfect, but the final crimp is no better than it ever was. I have to think it's the die, and not the alignment. The powder/shot station is now a little off. I just have to tip the shell back a bit to align it with the drop tube. The de-prime station is much better, but still not perfect. The crimps I'm getting are decent, as good as I've ever seen anyone make on a MEC, but not "factory finish". I've got some great crimps before, but they were very tight fitting, non-compressible steel shot loads. I also need an overshot card, but those I can crimp to look factory because I can put a lot of force on it without buckling the hull. With most loads, you buckle the shell before you get to the nice tight "factory" look. This is where the PW has the advantage. To make better than factory, a MEC is just fine, and you finish with a GAEP crimp finisher. I also want the PW because I really like the quick change tooling.

As for buying steel dies, I'm not putting any more money into my 600jr. For all the stuff I've bought for it, parts, etc. I could have bought a PW. If I knew then, what I know now, I would never have got a 600jr. For target ammo they work, for hunting ammo, they do not. I should have started, and I recommend all new re-loaders to start on a sizemaster.

[MOA]

I too will agree with Mega, if I new what I know now years ago I would have just started saving my money and gone with the PW to begin with. The fact that the hull is supported its entire length is a major difference from MEC. The whole engineered final crimp is also completely different, never had a bad crimp from the PW.

Example:

https://s19.postimg.org/k80g43nyr/20180128_133439.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/eju5d7jm7/)

https://s19.postimg.org/z58x4zbg3/20180128_134023.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ng4xh0khb/)

https://s19.postimg.org/isyvfdulf/20180128_133501.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/goeieasyn/)

But, than again if all the stars are lined up just right the MEC will give you this:

https://s19.postimg.org/6fuvv1doj/20140314_114943.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3yj4nrtrz/)

https://s19.postimg.org/8pj05smmb/20140316_130759.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3qvhr9itb/)

https://s19.postimg.org/3ozjrf8g3/20150524_145558.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/9d5uibcsf/)

Even a new factory uncrimped 10 ga hull will crimp fine with the old style metal dies.

https://s19.postimg.org/aizirapar/Photo0341.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s19.postimg.org/5x3eiybhf/Photo0343.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s19.postimg.org/5kc0cs0xf/Photo0344.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[robert6715]

MOA, Is stacking buckshot a pain in the butt without being able to remove the hull from the holder on the Ponsness? Seems like it would be.

Rob

[MOA]

robert6715,

Actually in this case as you can see by the image, I am using the silver hulls that are produced by Winchester for the handicap trap crowd. The load data is the same be they red or silver, but I suspect the silver has just a hair more room in them than the red hull. I am in this case using 00 buck and they just align themselves very easily without any trouble, and quite quickly too. I have only loaded maybe 400 buckshot loads so far on the PW reloader, I've loaded more on the MEC, but that is only due to just getting the PW a month ago or so. I can tell you this, you have a much higher chance of shot, be it buck or smaller shot all over the floor with a MEC than with the PW, don't ask me how I know and I won't have to lie. So far I am really liking my PW. I plan down the road to get another head with the ten and twenty gauge tools on it so most of my future shotshell loading will be done on the PW. I plan on keeping the MEC's, but will get them set up to do mostly the 3" shells in 12 and 20 ga while I have the PW set up on standard length except for the ten which I will set up for the 3-1/2 from the get go. I am going to have to get a new set up for the loading bench, I have to have room for two rockchuckers, two partner presses, the Hornady LNL AP plus the four MEC's, the Ponsness Warren, and a Master Caster from Magma and still have room to clean the shooting sticks and just general room so I don't feel confined while trying to get some stuff done. You still need room to clean and sort brass, storage of supplies, lube boolits, all kinds of space is needed, so I am planning to get things organized differently when we move. I will get this setup done this one final time. I can hardly wait to be done with it, so tired of having to move stuff back and forth all the time to get anything done, it makes the job twice what it should be as far as time spend doing a specific project.

[MOA]

robert6715,
What size buckshot size do you find yourself using on the Island, and for what purpose?

[robert6715]

I load #4 for fox calling & Lots of 00 & 000 that my native friends use for marine mammal harvest, mainly sea otters.

Rob

[MOA]

Interesting, buckshot for aquatic hunting. Amazing how unique uses are so localized. Always wanted to do Alaska. Life just gets away from us somehow. I envy your experiences.

[megasupermagnum]

I wish I could try a Ponsness Warren, before buying one. I guess there is nothing against returning it though. On my MEC, I can make crimps close to your PW pictures, but not all the time, and only with winchester or remington target hulls. My biggest gripe is that it can be so inconsistent. I can try for hours to get it adjusted JUST so, but every shell is a little different. Sometimes you just buckle shells when trying to stuff just a little too much in a hull, but what I hate is when I get 3 good shells, 4 that are kind of strange looking, and 1 that for some reason super tapers the hull. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but every MEC I've ever used is touchy. I've never tried the metal dies, but I blame it on a "set" die, and lots of variation in hulls. Just varying the wad seating from 30 pounds to 40 pounds can produce a crimp that goes from barely closed with negative taper, to one that starts to buckle and is WAY over tapered.

[EDG]

If your MEC has a problem you will never get consistent crimps.
The plastic crimp starters on my 700 Versamec never made me happy. I switched to the old style brass sheet metal crimp starter and I had much more consistent results. The MEC final crimp station function is very sensitive to the stacked height of the powder, wad and shot column. In my quest for the lowest possible cost skeet loads I used almost any cheap wads found at dealers and gun shows.

I used Rem, Win, Federal, Pacific and several brands of clone wads. I used mostly Rem and Win compression formed hulls. Twelve ga ammo was loaded with Red Dot. Twenty ga ammo was loaded for a long time with Green Dot. However crimping the Green Dot loads never looked as pretty as I wanted. I tried Unique in place of Green Dot and it changed the stacked height of the powder and wad column enough to make better crimps. So I switched to Unique.
As time went on I learned to adjust the wad column height with the wad seating pressure ram.
When the wad column was too tall I just compressed the wad to collapse the wad cushion section. When too short less pressure was used.

This is my first post in the shot shell section here. Why?
I have been reloading shot shells more than 50 years. Most of that time I have been using MECs. I am a long time skeet shooter. Loadi g shot shells with my MECs is not a challenging task other than dealing with the boredom. I have not adjusted much of anything in the last 30 years. There is not much to shotshell loading for skeet since about the only thing I ever changed was the wad brand. So there is not much to post about shotshell loading.
You might do well to haul your loader over to someone that has a working MEC and compare the two.
Other than changing to the brass crimp starter mine are just like they came out of the box.

[Cap'n Morgan]

As I recall it, to get a perfect crimp on my MEC I adjusted the cam so it would just barely fold the crimp and the edge still had a bit of flare. Afterwards, I then ran the finished shells through the crimp station a second time with the cam set for a deeper crimp and got a well defined crimp with a smooth rounded/tapered edge.

I would expect the more expensive progressive presses has two crimping stations, but I'm not sure.

[Hogtamer]

Load height must be perfect for a perfect crimp. Close gets you, well, close.

[jimb16]

WOW! I've got 4 600 jrs. and a PW. Once I adjust the crimp station on the MECs I get just as good crimps as I do with the PW. The PW is set up for my 12 ga. skeet load and I keep a 12 ga MEC for specialty loads. The other 3 are for 16, 20 and .410 loading. I get very good crimps on everything I load. The only real problematic one is the .410. There are at least 3 different length cases for the 1/2 once loads and I have to readjust the crimp for each one.

[megasupermagnum]

WOW! I've got 4 600 jrs. and a PW. Once I adjust the crimp station on the MECs I get just as good crimps as I do with the PW. The PW is set up for my 12 ga. skeet load and I keep a 12 ga MEC for specialty loads. The other 3 are for 16, 20 and .410 loading. I get very good crimps on everything I load. The only real problematic one is the .410. There are at least 3 different length cases for the 1/2 once loads and I have to readjust the crimp for each one.

How about some pictures? Remington STS's don't count.

[bdicki]

I load on MEC grabbers, 16,12,and 28ga. The 12 I load STS, Nitro, Gun Clubs, Winchester CF reds and silvers all with the same settings. Sorry I only have STS's with me, they all look the same except some are longer so the crimp closes more. Some have holes and some have curls.
https://i.imgur.com/QRALX5R.jpg

[megasupermagnum]

That says nothing. I can do that with a lee loader hand kit. Try that with a federal, estate, rio, chedite, remington straight wall, etc., or any 3", then you will see the shortcomings of a MEC.

[bdicki]

That says nothing. I can do that with a lee loader hand kit. Try that with a federal, estate, rio, chedite, remington straight wall, etc., or any 3", then you will see the shortcomings of a MEC.
Why would I, although I do load Cheddites for 16 ga with good results.

[megasupermagnum]

Why would I, although I do load Cheddites for 16 ga with good results.

You posted on a thread about MEC crimping problems with hunting loads. Nobody, myself included, has every said a MEC wont make good target ammo.

[EDG]

I am sure you can get the MEC to work fine if you want. If you don't want it to work you will keep finding fault with it.
I don't really think you get such good crimps with a Lee hand loader kit . I have a LEE loader kit that is some times used to test a new wad or hull. Crimping plastic requires such high force that I do that part on the MECs.





That says nothing. I can do that with a lee loader hand kit. Try that with a federal, estate, rio, chedite, remington straight wall, etc., or any 3", then you will see the shortcomings of a MEC.

[robert6715]

Loaded on a 600 jr. 3" Remington "nitro steel" .25" yellow plastic base wad, 32 pellets #4 buck, MG42 wad, 30 gr. blue dot , 4.5cc sperical buffer. Every single shell turns out like these. Same goes for 12 pellets of OO instead of 32 of #4.

214612
214613
214614

[megasupermagnum]

Now that is impressive. I've NEVER in 10 years got crimps that looked that good on my MEC.

[higgins]

I've used two pre-1985 600 Jrs for a long time now, and never had any crimping problem that couldn't be solved following these directions. https://www.mecshootingsports.com/Content/documents/600jr.pdf

A good start would be to make sure all the parts on the press match the parts in the drawing for whichever 600 Jr. one owns. The only nasty looking crimps I ever got were with hulls that weren't much good for reloading anyway, or when I deviated from the components, primarily wads, listed in a shotshell manual; not a real good idea anyway.

We often say "fit is king" when talking about cast bullet diameters, but with shotshells "load height is king" for a good crimp.

[EDG]

We often say "fit is king" when talking about cast bullet diameters, but with shotshells "load height is king" for a good crimp.

You could add uniform hull length and type to "load height".
I did a good bit of testing when setting up a new MEC with anything that changed the hull, powder charge volume, shot volume or wad.

It never occurred to me that someone would want to use a mixed bag of different hulls. Everytime you change hulls you might need to tinker with the crimp.
Back then I was focused on shooting as cheap as possible so I used lighter than normal skeet loads.
My employer back then bought a new set of Thomas Register every year. Those large format books had .100 thick cardboard covers.
I cut all the covers off and took them into the factory during lunch break. There I used a Strippet Super 30 -30 punch press to punch paper discs out of the book covers. After several days of lunch breaks i would have a gallon or so of the paper plugs in a plastic bag.
All I had to do was toss one of the paper plugs into the shot cup of each shell to drop the load by 1/8oz of shot. The plugs looked like old Alcan over powder wads from the Jurassic epoch. They permitted me to make slight adjustments to the load without making adjustments to my preferred crimp settings.
I only used 4 different hulls in 12ga and 3 in 20 gauge over about 20 years. I used WW AA hulls in both guns a lot. My skeet range burned many of the lesser hulls. I got the RP compression formed DOVE & QUAIL hulls for nearly nothing. I got the Reifenhauser type Federal hulls for carrying them off. I was able to load the same load in multiple hulls in each gauge even though the internal capacity and case lengths were different.

[bdicki]

You posted on a thread about MEC crimping problems with hunting loads. Nobody, myself included, has every said a MEC wont make good target ammo.
I never read any post about hunting loads. All I read was how crappy the MEC is. And hunting loads are no different than target loads pick a hulls use the proper components set the press properly and load away.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=199941

[megasupermagnum]

I never read any post about hunting loads. All I read was how crappy the MEC is. And hunting loads are no different than target loads pick a hulls use the proper components set the press properly and load away.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=199941

Sheesh, don't take it so personal. I never once said MEC is crappy, I never would. I'm convinced my own personal MEC is junk. There is a huge difference between loading a wimpy 1 oz load and a full blast 1 1/4 oz steel shot, or 1 1/2 oz lead load. Maybe I have the wrong turret head on mine, maybe I still don't have the alignment perfect, maybe I haven't even thought of the real problem yet. Since I first got mine, I've had to fiddle around with the thing for 45 minutes or better just to make a usable shell. This is no joke. When I'm done setting mine up there is a whole box of smashed or useless shells I need to disassemble. It's not a thing of making small adjustments, mine is so weird, I can turn the crimp punch down and get a shallower crimp.:veryconfu Then the bizarre thing is that the next one comes out barely crimped, and the next one comes out smashed. Never touched a setting, never changed a component, weighted shot and powder. This is not a rip on MEC, my press clearly has a problem. I hope someone who is also having problems can see what I did to get the alignment better. For me, I'm just limping mine along until I can buy a Ponsness Warren. I'd have nothing against a MEC sizemaster, but the 600 jr isn't good for my purposes.

[Hogtamer]

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