Making 8x57 from 30-06

[Texas by God]

Can someone walk me through this? Do I need any special dies or just the standard RCBS 8mm dies that I have? I have lots of 30-06 brass; a new 8mm Rifle; and all my new brass sources are dry of 8mm currently.
Best, Thomas

[EDG]

The process depends on how cheap you are and how hard you want to work.

The best process requires the use of a trim die which costs $25 to $30.
Best process
You may need to clean the die and the cases in mid process to avoid metal particles in the die from scratching the cases.
Form the case with the trim die and cut to rough length.
I use a 48 tooth hacksaw blade that is broken off and fitted to a saber saw.. An air powered saber saw would work well too.
FL size which will expand the neck.
Trim to finished length.

You might get 2 reloads before the necks crack if you do not anneal.
If you lightly anneal the necks every 3 or 4 reloads the cases will probably last 6 to 10 reloads if you know how to set your FL die for best case life.


Process without trim die.
Figure out how you are going to to cut off and trim the cases. Some use a saw. Some use a tubing cutter. A lathe is the best way if you have one and know how to use it.
Expand the case neck with the 8X57 expander but do not FL size your brass yet. (Some dies are closed topped so you cannot FL size a full length 30-06 case with the expander in place.)
Cut the cases off to rough length.
FL size
Trim to finished length.
I recommend annealing necks as described above.

WARNING
If you use .30-06 commercial brass marked with the caliber you will be running some risk of chambering an 8X57 round in a 30-06.
I prefer to use unmarked .30-06 military cases.
I do not have a .270 Win so those cases work just as well for me.

If you have any berdan 30-06 cases they are good to practice on. Just remove your decapping pin first.

I have personally used both methods to form brass. I really prefer the trim die method. If I had a lathe I would probably part off the cases and FL size skipping the trim die.

[kungfustyle]

Buy two or three boxes of Prvi Partizan Ammunition 8x57mm JS Mauser ammo, then get more when you can afford it. At cast pressure levels these will last a long long time.
Otherwise you will need the form and trim die and a neck turning set up $$$. Anneal the brass, lube it and run it into the form and trim die. Knock off about 1/2 inch with a hack saw. Run it through the FL size die. Turn the outside of the neck of the brass (case wall is thicker than the neck).

[EDG]

There is no need to turn case necks. I have used both commercial and heavy wall US GI CASES. (SL-54) to make hundreds of 8X57 and 7.65 Mauser cases for about 10 different rifles including an a autoloader. The military chamber necks are way larger than loaded ammo.

[sharps4590]

You can do it but why? 8 X 57 brass is pretty readily available on line. I've re-formed -06 cases into 8 X 56 Mannlicher/Schoenauer and 9.3 X 57 and some others I've forgotten but when I got my 8 X 57 Strover sporter I just bought the brass.

[Texas by God]

I've always just bought brass before but everywhere I've checked is out of stock. I like Privi brass; I'm using it in full tilt 22-250 and .243 loads with no problems. Thanks everyone.
Well, I just found some at Midway- but I need to try the forming process as well so I'll know what I'm into. I have lots of donor brass; 25-06,.270,&30-06!

[DocSavage]

Hard to believe 8x57 brass is hard to come by. You can make the brass from 7x57,6mm Remington or 257 Roberts brass. Might need a tapered expander to form but that should be cheap.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Powder Valley and Graf's say 8X57 is in stock

[Texas by God]

I know, Doc. The trouble with the 57s is they aren't exactly stacked deep on the shelves either!
About 15 years ago there was a period of time that I couldn't find any 8mm brass. I finally found some Remington but the headstamp was strange- like it was etched or something. I'll endeavor to persevere.

[Texas by God]

Powder Valley and Graf's say 8X57 is in stock
Thank you. I see that Graf does have it- I don't know how I missed it earlier. I'll get the Privi- it's much better than the Winchester I've seen and read about lately.

[mac60]

EDG has it right. I do this all the time with an old Pacific file/trim die. .30-06 brass is frequently available for a lot less than 8x57 brass. If you have the file/trim die, you can make it for a lot less than you can buy new 8x57 brass for.

[OS OK]

Ohhh...If only there was a way to permanently re-mark the head stamps, I'd be all over making my own 8's from 06's...I suppose that being OCD is sometimes a hangup. But, through diligence, eventually you'll come up with enough original brass to make you happy. That's half the fun of this BrassStuffing thing...only, it seems as though you can never catch up, there's always something you need 'more of'.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a Garand to feed so one time I fell into a fantastic deal for a 5 gallon bucket full of 30-06 once fired brass for $100. There were only two kinds, Winchester or R-P. This was pretty clean brass but primed and had been fired once. I had no need for 5 gallons of brass so I split it with my shooting buddy.

Now I had 2 1/2 gallons of 30-06 brass. I used some for my Garand and along the way I aquired a BRNO 98/22 Mauser in 7.62x57. I needed brass for this new (to me) rifle. I made a jig to hold the 30-06 case and hacksawed (powered by sabre saw) offa a mite. Then I annealed these cases with a propane torch and shallow pan of water and then ran thru the lubed and clean cases into a FL sizer (8x57) and finally trimmed the case mouth and cleaned up with deburring and chamfering to proper length.

When completed I had a supply of 30-06 marked brass that were sized and annealed to run thru my BRNO Mauser 98/22. Later on I took off that 8MM barrel and had Ray Lynn install a Douglas Match barrel, rechamber in 6.5 x 55 MM Sweede, work over the bolt, add a buhler safety, put a turn into the bolt, install a timney trigger and put it all in a laminated thumbhole stock. He of course reblued everything beautifully in a royal blue that would make Colt owner jealous.

[mac60]

Ohhh...If only there was a way to permanently re-mark the head stamps, I'd be all over making my own 8's from 06's...I suppose that being OCD is sometimes a hangup. But, through diligence, eventually you'll come up with enough original brass to make you happy. That's half the fun of this BrassStuffing thing...only, it seems as though you can never catch up, there's always something you need 'more of'.

Has anyone ever experimented with Birchwood Casey "brass black"?

[OS OK]

don't know mac...what I was referring to is having the ability to engrave them with the new caliber and permanently erase the old marking...either in part or all of it. Only problem there would be thinning of the bases.

[Moonie]

I used to use 270 brass I'd scrounged to make 8x57 as I had a 30-06 at the time. Now I don't have the 30-06 but do have an Encore pistol in 270 Winchester... Wouldn't you know it lol. Haven't shot my '98 in years though.

[fast ronnie]

trim die and powered trimmer to length. Then run through standard 8 x 57 die.

[gpidaho]

This is what works well for me. Trim an appropriate amount off the neck of the 30-06 neck with my Harbor Freight 2" chop saw, Make sure the cases are clean, and lube with Imperial case wax. Then, I run the cases into my Redding Form & Trim die. Then strait to my Lee full length size die. Finish trim and fire form. There are other ways you can get it done but this is the easy way for me. Gp

[EDG]

You can do it but why? 8 X 57 brass is pretty readily available on line.

One of my 8X57s is an Egyptian Hakim autoloader well known for mangling brass with 2 or 3 dents while throwing it 30 feet. I would never use new brass for the Hakim. It is just too expensive to mangle new brass.

[Texas by God]

One of my 8X57s is an Egyptian Hakim autoloader well known for mangling brass with 2 or 3 dents while throwing it 30 feet. I would never use new brass for the Hakim. It is just too expensive to mangle new brass.The ejected brass from a Hakim is a weapon itself!

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[tdoor4570]

Has anyone ever experimented with Birchwood Casey "brass black"?

I dip the heads of my converted 8x57 in brass black seems to stay on for a while

[mac60]

don't know mac...what I was referring to is having the ability to engrave them with the new caliber and permanently erase the old marking...either in part or all of it. Only problem there would be thinning of the bases.

In George Nonte's book "modern handloading" he shows a drawing of a cutter he had made from a drill bit. He explained that he turned the cutter against the head, cutting a shallow groove and removing the h/s, after which he used a 1/16" stamp to put a new h/s on the case. He claimed he didn't have a problem with cases thus modified.

[mac60]

I dip the heads of my converted 8x57 in brass black seems to stay on for a while

I guess the extraction/ejection cycle would tend to be rough on it. The main thing to me is something to draw attention to the fact that something is "different" about the case.

[HangFireW8]

I convert '06 to 8mm, just because I want to. Mostly it is range pickup brass with headstamps that do not match my regular batches of '06 brass. If you are doing 270 or 25/06, you are going to have a hard time not collapsing the shoulder when you run it over the expander ball. You may have to adapt my process a bit, perhaps remove the expander ball for your initial reforming step.

My process:
1. Flare the neck's mouth silly large on a Lee flaring die. Lube case neck inside and out.
2. Run through a Lee FL 8mm die on a reasonably strong press (in my case either the Lee Classic Cast or RCBS RC).
3. Use a compact pipe cutter (the kind you use for brake lines or 1/4" tubing) to cut off most of the excess.
4. Run the neck through a flare die like a Lyman M or similar to get rid of the "crimp" left by the pipe cutter
5. Trim to length, in my case I use a drill driver and the Lee system

At this point the case is a little long on headspace, which is just right for one of my old Mauser beaters, and the neck is a little large at the base, small in the middle and flared at the end. I suppose I should anneal it at this point... but I haven't bothered. I just FL size it again like a normal case and get on with reloading. So, final step...

6. FL size again

I also dip the bases in Birchwood Casey brass black. That works very well, until you do a vibratory or liquid rotary tumbler run. In a liquid and SS pin media, all the brass inside, dipped or not, will come out uniformly dark. A second run with fresh liquid will remove it. In a vibratory, the black part will get progressively lighter the longer the run, after 2 or 3 hours it's almost entirely gone, depending on how aggressive your media is.

I have never had to ream or turn the case necks, but I'm working with old military chambers.

[higgins]

I have taken a fine Dremel burr and lightly obliterated the 30/06 from cases. You don't have to go any deeper than the headstamp, and I never felt like I was removing enough brass to weaken the rim.

[azrednek]

Before I loaned my 8MM trim die long distance and never recovered it. I roughly cut and trimmed the 06 brass, a pass through a 8MM sizer without the decapping stem and discarding screw-ups, dents, wrinkles etc. Back again through sizing die with decap and neck ball stem installed, a fine trim to minimum length, champher and deburr neck and you're ready to go. You might be able to get by without a second trip through the sizer. In my experience it saved on discarded brass by not using decap stem the first time. Brass' neck has to go through expander ball to work and fit properly in trimmer. Trimming to minimum length might prevent you needing to trim again prematurely. I use a marking pen on headstamp to keep reformed brass separate. Use different color pen if you also reform others like 7.7 Jap. Do remember to separate before mixing it all in your tumbler.

I could simply buy 8X57 brass but I have more than enough 06 brass to last my lifetime. Besides I'm a cheapskate and have accumulated hundreds of expended US and Canadian GI 06 blanks that have no other use or value other than scrap. Back in the 70's there were no sources of brass other than buying factory ammo or pay more than the price off ammo for Norma brass. I also used US GI 06 to form 765 Argie, 7X57 and 7.7 Jap. Before I foolishly loaned my 8X57 trim & file die. I used it on the first step with the other calibers. My Lyman trim die could be adjusted for 7.7 or use as is for 7MM. I sprang a pre Hornady Pacific 07 press out of alignment reforming 06 brass. I think my shooting bud did it in his ill fated attempt at 6.5 Jap. Thanks to meeting Steve Hornady at a NRA convention after they bought out Pacific. He sent me a new Hornady 007 press no charge.

If the guilty person might suddenly remember where he got the trim die I'd really appreciate hearing from you. I was in poor health and bed ridden for nearly a year. Apx two years later remembering it but unable to recall whom or where I sent it.

[EMC45]

TexasByGod -

I just converted some the other night. Found some once fired 30-06 brass in the gunroom and grabbed the 8MM dies and got after it. This is how I do it (and have always done it):

I use Imperial wax and lube the outside of the case. I also lube the inside of the neck with a QTip rolled in the Imperial to ease the expander ball into the case mouth. I then run the case into the 8MM die, which elongates the neck quite a bit. I run a sharpie up the neck of the case in a line. I then take my calipers and run them about plus 5 thousands for OAL case length. Scratch a small witness mark in the sharpie at that length and use a small brake line tubing cutter to trim the excess neck off at the witness mark. I then run the case back through the full length size die (to bump out the slight crimp due to the cutter wheel). I chuck the case up in my RCBS case trimmer and trim to the OAL for the case. After the trimming (which is only about 3-5 thous now) I clean inside and outside of the case mouth with the Wilson tool and then twist the case mouth into some balled up 0000 steel wool to get any burrs off. I don't thin the necks at all and they all shoot just fine.

[HangFireW8]

TbG,

I see from another thread you got a 270 case stuck in the die. I hope that was not the result of my incomplete instructions.

When I wrote lube the neck, I meant inside and outside with a good lube like Imperial, which I also use. Not just dry lube like mica on the inside.

You still need to lube the outside of the case fully, like you're running MG brass through a small base die.

[Texas by God]

HangFire- no worries! It was completely my fault for not relubing that case after trimming.

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[Good Cheer]

It's always possible that you can use longer necked boolit friendly brass for your mold of choice.
Just depends upon your chamber dimensions, easy to check by fire form a longer length with the extra neck length sized in a smaller caliber die.

[Elkins45]

If I had 25-06 brass I think I would try to swap it or sell it because it might be economically advantageous. But if I wanted to convert it I think I would anneal the case necks first, then run it into a 270 and then 30-06 die to do the neck in stages.


Ohhh...If only there was a way to permanently re-mark the head stamps, I'd be all over making my own 8's from 06's...I suppose that being OCD is sometimes a hangup. But, through diligence, eventually you'll come up with enough original brass to make you happy. That's half the fun of this BrassStuffing thing...only, it seems as though you can never catch up, there's always something you need 'more of'.

It's a partial fix at best, but if you have access to a lathe you could use the point of a threading tool to cut a groove in the headstamp. At least that would let you know there was something different about the case without weakening it or introducing headspace issues.

[bruce drake]

I color code the base of my converted brass with a sharpie in the extractor ring. It usually lasts through a couple of reloads and tumbler clean cycles before I have to touch up the color.

[Clark]

18 places to buy

https://ammoseek.com/reloading/brass/8mm-mauser

[mrrch]

Easy to buy but I have bags of 06 brass. Got my dies on Saturday and it is an easy conversion from 30-06 to 8x57. I take my brass to the sander to wipe the head stamp down.

[beerthirty]

In George Nonte's book "modern handloading" he shows a drawing of a cutter he had made from a drill bit. He explained that he turned the cutter against the head, cutting a shallow groove and removing the h/s, after which he used a 1/16" stamp to put a new h/s on the case. He claimed he didn't have a problem with cases thus modified.

I wonder if the groove looked like this....

https://www.sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/20-round-box-308-win-148-grain-fmj-german-military-surplus-ammo-am2030-r

" however the headstamp has been 'sanitized' by machining out the markings as shown in the picture"

[EDG]

I think it was Nonte that got a large quantity of Browning ammo from the contractor who loaded it for Browning after Browning quit the ammo business. He used a parting tool in a lathe to plunge cut a shallow groove to remove the head stamp.

[toot]

want to know? just GOOGLE it. it is all there on how to do it. saves a lot of flak. hope this helps

[HangFireW8]

Toot,

That could be said about any question posted here.

The forum format has its benefits. After all a lot of Google searches lead right back here.

[Hamish]

Easy to buy but I have bags of 06 brass. Got my dies on Saturday and it is an easy conversion from 30-06 to 8x57. I take my brass to the sander to wipe the head stamp down.

If you grind the entire base of the cartridge off the erase the head stamp, do you not create a possible head space issue?

[ulav8r]

If you grind the entire base of the cartridge off the erase the head stamp, do you not create a possible head space issue?

It will affect headspace and primer pocket depth.

[mrrch]

Just a quick touch to the sander, not removing much. Blurs the head stamp enough and used for light plinkers only,primers sit flush still.

[Texas by God]

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[Texas by God]

I ended up making my own trim die from an old full-length sizing 8mm die. I annealed it and then cut it to length. After I polish it, I will reheat treat it. I have lots of Federal 25-06 & .270 to convert for CB use. No worries about headstamps that way.

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[EDG]

FL dies are case hardened low carbon steel so they do not have enough carbon on the cut off surface to be heat treated.


I ended up making my own trim die from an old full-length sizing 8mm die. I annealed it and then cut it to length. After I polish it, I will reheat treat it. I have lots of Federal 25-06 & .270 to convert for CB use. No worries about headstamps that way.

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[HangFireW8]

FL dies are case hardened low carbon steel so they do not have enough carbon on the cut off surface to be heat treated.

So carburize it.

[EDG]

Why take the long way? There is nothing to prove by all that work.
Buy a trim die for $20 off ebay.
If you are hell bent on doing it yourself just drop a hardened washer over the case neck to protect the top of the die.
It is even faster to use a Wilson case trimmer case holder and part the case off in a lathe.


So carburize it.

[HangFireW8]

Carburizing is not hard or expensive. I think he has already cut off the die. He obviously likes to make his own tools. Or remake them.

Think like a handy retired person with fixed income but lots of tools. Then it will make sense.

[EDG]

Why bother?
I have done that very thing 40 years ago. It is not worth the trouble.
Try thinking like a real tool maker.


Carburizing is not hard or expensive. I think he has already cut off the die. He obviously likes to make his own tools. Or remake them.

Think like a handy retired person with fixed income but lots of tools.











Then it will make sense.

[Texas by God]

Why bother?
I have done that very thing 40 years ago. It is not worth the trouble.
Try thinking like a real tool maker.EDG- thanks for your input. I'll do what I want anyway as always. It's no bother.

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[lar45]

I've got a 9.3x57 Mauser and ordered some PPC 8x57 brass for it. I use that for all of my jacketed loads, but I wanted to try converting some 30-06 cases to use for cast.
I started with some once fired Rem cases and just used the lyman case trimmer to cut them down to 57mm + a little.
217752

Next I lubed them and ran through the 9.3x57 sizer die and deburred the case mouth. A single pass through the sizer and they came out looking great.
217751

I measured the necks and they were .015" at the base of the neck, so they needed turning.
I didn't have a 9.3 mandrel for the Hornady neck turner, so I opened the necks up with a 375 expander button.
217754

Then turned the necks to get .012" wall thickness.
217753

After turning the necks I ran them back through the 9x3.57 sizer die and did a final trim to get the correct lenth.
With all of the sizing, I annealed the necks.
217755

[cosmoline one]

I just cut to size(I marked on harbor freight mini saw), lube by spray, run them slow & steady through a FL die, then trim & prep as you would
any other case. I dont anneal & I get many reloads in different 98 mausers.
(I used to use a redding trim die before the mini saw, but saw is faster& no issues)

[Minerat]

I am using some odd 270 size brass. The expander is out of the die. Have tried expanding necks to 7mm before sizing in 8mm die (RCBS FL), bent the necks. Tried trimming then expanding to 30 cal, split the case. So what's the trick to go from .270 to .323. Oh, tried sizing, trimming and then using universal expander and split the neck.[smilie=b:

Now as Paul Harvey says, the rest of th story. Some fool converted these 3006 cases to 270. I picked them up cheap at a garage sale and did not catch it till today when I started counting out 50 to convert to 8x57. Probably more then once fired so may try annealing next then... How do I get there?

[EDG]

If you have any junk cases or .30-06 berdans use them for process development so you do not scrap good brass.

Try expanding with a long tapered expander. You may have to make or modify an existing expander. Redding makes those tapered buttons or you can grind an existing button.
Open up the neck to .30 cal from .270.
Then open to 8mm.

Your brass may need annealing of the necks or it may need 2 or 3 expander steps. You can determine what is necessary by experimentation.


I am using some odd 270 size brass. The expander is out of the die. Have tried expanding necks to 7mm before sizing in 8mm die (RCBS FL), bent the necks. Tried trimming then expanding to 30 cal, split the case. So what's the trick to go from .270 to .323. Oh, tried sizing, trimming and then using universal expander and split the neck.[smilie=b:

Now as Paul Harvey says, the rest of th story. Some fool converted these 3006 cases to 270. I picked them up cheap at a garage sale and did not catch it till today when I started counting out 50 to convert to 8x57. Probably more then once fired so may try annealing next then... How do I get there?

Xu

[gpidaho]

I have found that the neck expansion die intended for use with the Sinclair neck turning tool to work very well when making the conversion of 30-06 or 270 to 8mm. The expansion die body and various mandrels are available separately. Gp

[Pressman]

Comparing the original post, there's a spam link.
If it is here, it may be all over the board.

[HangFireW8]

I don't see any kind of link in the original post of this thread.

[Grmps]

I tried regular reloading dies to resize the cases at first then went with the RCBS TRIM 8MMX57 MAUSER DIE -- much better
I wasn't a big fan of cutting with/on the die so I ended up using a small tubing cutter. I marked a few cases and saw where I needed to position the tubing cutter so I only had a couple thou to take off on my case trimmer.

IF your splitting necks try annealing before sizing, so far I haven't split any necks. (knock on wood)

I only used military cases without any calibers marked on them to help eliminate any possible confusion

[Texas by God]

Not a good pic but here's my results. I used 25-06, .270, & 30-06 brass. I used a trim die made from a cutoff fl die at first to move the shoulder back. Later I switched to a mini chop saw(Yes!) After cutoff, I annealed them then took the 25 thru a .270 die, then the .270s thru the 30-06 die, then All thru the 8mm CH die. This has an abrupt expander so a bit of quick muscle was needed. I used Hornady sizing wax throughout.
217grNOE326471F / 30.2(2.2cc) H4895
I lost one case out of 30. The neck split on a Federal 25-06. Thanks to you all for your help.
Thomashttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/cd359c90ef5ea0f344c04615beacafcb.jpg

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[Hamish]

I know I'm late to the party, but,,,,,,,

I have two jigs made by Von Zep for 300 BLK and 7,92x57, that are made to mount to the Harbor Freight Mini Chop Saw that are the ONLY way I would think about doing it after cutting a couple of hundred down by hand with the case trimmer.

With .270 I ran them up as far as they would go in a Lee FL die sans expander, ran them through the chop saw, then finish FL'd them. I do not remember losing a single case. If you set up the HF saw well, there is minimal touch up in the case trimmer.

I just peeked at VonZep's store, not sure if the 8mm model is in stock or not, but I HIGHLY recommend their jigs if doing more than a handful,,,,,

https://www.zepreloading.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

https://www.zepreloading.com/video-of-jig-in-action.html

(skip to the 2:00 mark)
https://youtu.be/6q-N4nai6_4

[Minerat]

I finally settled on, annealing cases, flair case mouths, run thru 7mm expander, the 308 expander and finally the 8mm and rough trim to length. Once I annealed the cases they stopped splitting. Thanks all for your suggestions.

[paul edward]

Can someone walk me through this? Do I need any special dies or just the standard RCBS 8mm dies that I have? I have lots of 30-06 brass; a new 8mm Rifle; and all my new brass sources are dry of 8mm currently.
Best, Thomas

Use a plumber's tubing cutter to shorten the 30/06 cases. Anneal. Resize. Trim to length with case trimmer.

There are lots of case trimmers available, from inexpensive Lee to the excellent Wilson. All of them are good for removing a small amount of neck brass.

Over the years I have converted lots of 30/06 to 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser, 7.65 Argentine, 308 Winchester and 7.7 Arisaka using RCBS dies, a tubing cutter and a Wilson case trimmer.

[Texas by God]

Today I'm converting 60 Frontier .270 brass to 8x57mm.
I love my baby chop saw[emoji11]

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[Eddie2002]

Just resized and trimmed 45 mixed 270 Winchester to 7.7x58 using a Unimat metal lathe. I tried a tubing cutter but it collapsed the neck of the brass.