.25-20 cases from Starline .32-20 brass

[Rodfac]

My dwindling supply of .25-20 brass has finally reached the critical point, ie. less than 50 cases remaining. After re-reading the posts here and elsewhere on case forming, I found a successful set of procedures that work for me and my 1935 vintage Winchester Model 65 lever gun.

I used new Starline .32-20 brass for my case conversion, but did briefly try a couple from of my hoarded supply of .218 Bee. The "Bee" brass was Starline as well and new; and was easy to expand out to .25-20 after lubing the inside neck with Imperial Sizing Wax. I used my RCBS FL sizing die and removed the decapping rod for the operation, then neck expanded the case using a Lyman .258" dia. "M" die. While this worked easily enough, .218 Bee brass is as scarse as .25-20 so it was no help.

Turning to the new Starlijne .32-20 brass, I began by annealing ten pieces using the torch method for a brief 5-6 second flame immersion, then applied a light coating of Imperial Sizing Wax, both inside the neck and outside down and just barely over the shoulder.

After trying to reduce the neck in one operation, unsuccessfully, I searched my parts box for an unused Lyman 310 tool, .270 sizing die. Since this die is too long to allow the .32-20 brass to reach the neck area, I cut roughly 1/2" off the length, and polished up the fresh cut. I have an adapter die that allows use of 310 Tool dies in a full size, 7/8x14 threaded press, so this was pressed into service. In effect, I reduced the case neck in two stages: roughly 0.314" to 0.277" then to 0.258". Getting a sizing die that's short enough is the tough part. I was lucky to have that old 310 .270" die. A .30 Luger die might work too, or a .280 die cut off to get the right length.

Again, after lubing the case, I SLOWLY resized the neck area of the .32-20 brass, allowing the die to size right down to the shoulder area. The .270 has a much steeper shoulder angle than the .25-20, but this would be ironed out during fire-forming. The key to this part of my operation was the right amount of lube and a SLOW stroke on the press handle.

Replacing the 310 Tool, .270 Sizer with my RCBS .25-20 sizer, with its decapping rod removed, I re-lubed the case and gently, with four short strokes, resized the case to its final neck diameter. Since the case head spaces off the rim, fire-forming is no big worry, and I sized only down far enought to allow the case to give me some 'feel' as it butted up against the shoulder of the chamber while closing the bolt. Here, as in the previous .270 sizing, the key seems to be: slowly forcing the case into the die, the right amount of lube to preclude shoulder wrinkles, and gradually setting the shoulder back, using four separate, short strokes.

I next resized the neck interiors with Lyman's "M" die in .258" dia., then seated CCI small pistol magnum primers.

I got 10 good cases, with no wrinkles or folds, no case body or neck splits either. I didn't lose a case with the above method. But the proof of the pudding is how they would shoot & the number of reloads I can get out fo them. For the minimal initial fire-forming necessary, I sized a cpl dozen 257420 gc boolits, and seated them over 7 grains of Bartett's clone of 4759. I've used this load before with good accuracy, & minimal pressure indications in genuine .25-20 brass, so I felt ok trying it here.

Off my porch rail, I got good case fill out, with the first shot, and accuracy was less than an inch at 30 yds with the iron sights on my model 65. Over the course of the afternoon, I reloaded these ten cases four times with no case losses. With any bottle-necked case, that's about my # of loadings before re-annealing. I'll give that a go manana. One note: Starline .32-20 brass seems to be thicker through the case neck region than genuine R-P or Winchester brass...could be the brass flowing forward during the re-sizing operation, or maybe it's just that thicker as a rule.

I checked several of the loading supplies outfits on the net, but none had Redding's .25-20 Form and Trim die in stock, and I wonder if they'd do the entire job without the two step reduction. For now, this procedure works for me, and I found that running the brass through was not as time consuming as my first attempts.

All in all, I'm happy to find an interim solution for the .25-20 cases I need to feed this rifle, and really pleased as well at finding a good plinking load on the first try. Accuracy wise, these cases are as good as originals. And a final note, I ordered 500 .32-20 cases from Starline this afternoon, to feed the .25-20 and an even older octagon bbl'd. M-92 in .32-20.

Best regards, Rod

[salpal48]

Sounds like a lot Of work and Dies. There is a member here That makes Them and People on Line. Price is reasonable .

[RedlegEd]

Rod,
Nice write up!
Ed

[earlmck]

I've been using the same procedure using a 7mm BenchRest as the intermediate neck reduction die. I don't anneal beforehand, but do anneal afterward. They seem to be fine 25/20's, and I have tried taking them on down to 218 Bee and it looks like that would work out fine also. I just tried making a couple of Bees to see how it would go, haven't yet needed to make more as I still have plenty of WW Bee brass. When we do make Bee brass this way we need to remember that 32/20 brass is lighter in the base area than real Bee brass, but should be great for our lower pressure cast boolit loads. And necks of Bees made from 32/20 are thicker than factory Bee brass; my Bee seems to handle the thicker necks OK but you'd want to be ready to turn the necks down a little if they are too thick for your rifle.

Sure is nice of Starline to make 32/20's for us!

[ole_270]

I do it much the same way. Rather than cut off an old scratched RCBS 270 die, I made an adapter by cutting off a 270 case, upending a cut off 223 case into it so that the 32-2 case would stick out enough to reach the neck portion of the sizer. The cases have to be punched out through the threaded hole for neck expander plug after sizing, but that doesn't take much. The next step for me is the Redding Form and Trim die with their expanded case holder, then the normal 25-20 sizing die.
I need to pick up a 32-20 or similar neck expansion plug to uniform the necks before starting, it reduces losses from case neck folds. Maybe I'll order one for my NOE expansion die one of these days.

[Rodfac]

Good points Earlmck. I noted the .25-20's formed from .32-20 Starline brass do seem to have thicker necks. Too, they, the Starline .32-20's that is, seem thicker even before sizing. The .270 die was all I had that I was willing to cut to length for the mid-point and has worked out to date.

Just a cpl notes on loads & the gun. I found this Model 65 Winchester 20 years ago at a Louisville gun show, in virtually new condition, I thought and paid the princely sum of $465 for it. The barrel for sure is new, but on closer, minute inspection, I found that at one time or another, a scope mount had been added to the left side, but the holes had been filled and the sides of the receiver re-polished and blued. Whoever did the work did a superb job and I'd gladly have another done by him. You need very good light and a jeweller's loop to see the the filled holes and there is no rounding of the corners nor action angles. I've had a Marbles, windage adjustable tang sight mounted, since just after I bought it, & a sight blank installed on the barrel. I use the original front sight. The barrel is 22" with a pistol grip type butt stock with some figure in it. All in all, it's a fine rig for hunting chucks in the tree lines here on our farm & I've dispatched a few possums and raccoons that found a way into the horse feed bin as well .

While I've used jacketed bullets with it over the years (Remington's 86 gr SP, as well as the Speer 75 gr and Hornady's 60 gr Flat Points), for the most part I like Lyman's 257420 gc FP sized to 0.259". I cast these from WW with as little tin as I can get away with and still get good mold fill out. I've air cooled and quenched this bullet, with little difference in group size. I use Hornady GC's exclusively.

I've had really good luck with 4227, SR4759, & Bartlett's clone 4759 with that Lyman 257420 GC bullet using the Hornady GC. Groups run to an inch or a little more at 50 yds with the tang sight on the rifle. I've not chrono'd any of my cast bullet loads to date but 8.5 gr to 9.5 gr of 4227 works well. My RCBS sizing die and the Lyman "M" die provide good case neck tension and I've played around with the crimp to get the best groups. A very mild taper seems to work best, removing the "M" die mouth expansion and a little bit more being the best. I get no bullet set-back using this method, even with a full magazine.

Without the GC, 257420 does as well with Winchester 231 from 3.8 to 4.2 gr's. Groups running about a 1/4" bigger at 50 yds for 5-round tests. I have no idea what velocity I'm getting and may haul out the chronograph when the weather breaks this spring for a check.

One note is that I've used Winchester Small Rifle caps with 4227, but found that CCI or Winchester Small Pistol Magnum caps work better with 231.

With the jacketed Remington 86 gr SP, 4227, SR4759, Bartlett clone 4759, & H-110 all work well...groups hovering right around an inch at 50 yds. The best combination with this bullet seems to be 9.5 gr of IMI 4227, in a Winchester Nickle case, using Winchester Small Rifle primers and a mild taper crimp. It chrono's at 1646 fps for 5 shots with an Ext. Spd. of 25 fps and I get 2" groups at 100 yds. I shoot off my porch rail, with only my left fore arm supported while sitting, so this is really a nice combination and may do better with a good bench and bag set-up. With 71 year old eyes doing the steering, it's about all I'm likely to get.

With Speer's 75 gr FP, I don't generally get as good groups as with 257420 or the Remington 86 gr SP, but 9.0 gr of SR4759 with a Win Small Pistol Magnum will do an inch at 50 yds. Groups open up to a little less that 2" @ 50 yds with either 4227 or Win 296 however.

With the 60 gr. Hornady FP, and 9.5 gr of IMI 4227, WSR caps, and Winchester cases, I've had some groups at 50 yds that were less than an inch. Sure wish I could find a supply of that little honey of a bullet, but I fear they're gone for good. Just not enough demand. I've never shot anything with that combination, but suspect it'd be explosive on woodchucks.

Lastly, I ordered RCBS's 85 gr PB FP mold last night for a try out. It seems to be a good design, and several here and elsewhere seem to have had good success with it. It'd be nice not to have to fool around with a GC for some plinking.

Best Regards to one and all, Rod

[Rodfac]

Thx Red for the compliment, it's a labor of love. The gun's too good to let sit without exercise.

Ole 270, interesting jury-rig for the case length problem. I'd like to get that Redding Form & Trim but wonder just how it works any better than using the .25-20 sizing die with the decapping rod removed. Does it reduce the neck dia. by half or what? Too, Redding is pretty proud if it price wise. For now, the .270 die is working out ok, and not really all that time consuming once I got the procedure down. I ran another 10 cases through last night in about ten minutes I'd guess. I can live with that...it's not like I'm blasting away with an AR on full auto!

Best Regards, Rod

[Baja_Traveler]

Midway USA has them ... https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601362546/remington-reloading-brass-25-20-wcf

That page has said "Unavailable - Limited Production" for at least 5 years...

I just made 100 last night from Starline 32-20 - super easy, just use a Redding 25-20 trim die and extended shell holder to form the first step (probably reduces it to 27 caliber) using Imperial Wax, then run them through the 25-20 resize die with the decapper removed. Done and easy. Using virgin brass I don't bother annealing until I'm finished. I lost 1 case to a neck crease - my usual failure rate is 1 to 2 cases per 100 with creased necks in the first stage of forming.

[earlmck]

- my usual failure rate is 1 to 2 cases per 100 with creased necks in the first stage of forming.
I forgot to mention that I start out by running a neck expander button far enough into the new brass to be sure the necks are round before starting the neck reduction, which seems to eliminate loss from creased necks. Though a loss of only 1 to 2 per hundred seems like it would be hardly worth worrying about.

I got onto the "perfectly round necks" thing years ago making 38/40 from 44/40. You'd think reducing from .43 to .40 would be duck soup -- absolutely nothing to even worry about, but I found that the least little neck dent resulted in a wrinkled neck. Since that time I make sure I round the necks before any neck reduction operation.

And Rodfac, thanks for your post: you have really worked with the 25/20 and I appreciate your loading info. I never had great accuracy from my old 87 grain .257312 Lyman boolit in the 25/20, though that's all I shot in mine for many years. And it was a single-cavity mould to begin with which was not a big deal back when I was young enough to be able to do a 5-hour casting session if I wanted a pile of boolits. Now I have the old crinky back that barely lets me get an hour in at the casting pot I got a nifty 5-cavity from Arsenal that throws about a 70 grain boolit. Better accuracy (though not any 2" hundred yard groups gonna' get shot with my old eyeballs even if the gun were capable). It also does decently w/o gas check using 7 grains of Lil' gun and 1500 fps which I load up for grandkid use.

And what is this "Bartlet's clone 4759"? I'm definitely running low on old favorite IMR 4759 and would love a replacement.

[Rodfac]

Good info Baho, I'd like to get that Redding die but haven't found a source that has them in stock as yet. My failure rate is now about 10% using the .270 sizing die as intermediate step.

I forgot to mention that I start out by running a neck expander button far enough into the new brass to be sure the necks are round before starting the neck reduction, which seems to eliminate loss from creased necks. Though a loss of only 1 to 2 per hundred seems like it would be hardly worth worrying about.

I got onto the "perfectly round necks" thing years ago making 38/40 from 44/40. You'd think reducing from .43 to .40 would be duck soup -- absolutely nothing to even worry about, but I found that the least little neck dent resulted in a wrinkled neck. Since that time I make sure I round the necks before any neck reduction operation. Earl:Haven't tried that as yet...will do tomorrow. And thanks for the load data. BTW, the Bartlett's 4759 is a pull down, reclaimed powder from Jeff Bartlett at GI Brass in Owensboro KY. A great guy to do business with.

I've got a 12 lb. keg of IMR 4759 in my loading room, unopened that I'd gladly share if you weren't 2000 miles away. I use the Bartletts 4759 for most all of my needs at this point...burns a bit better than SR4759. For those in this area, that are willing to come pick it up, I'll offer SR4759 at $20/lb. if anyone is interested. I'm 20 miles NE of Louisville KY.

HTH's Rod

[earlmck]

Rod, I'm betting that rounding the necks will reduce your failure rate to dang near zilch. Give her a go.

And dang, I wish you lived a little closer -- I think we might kinda' get along. And I'd take a few pounds of that 4759 off your hands. I checked Jeff Bartlett and he doesn't have any of that 4759 listed. Guess I missed out! But I still have 5 pounds or so of the stuff which will last me pretty good 'cause I have discovered that other things also work well. As in -- who'd have guessed that Lil' Gun would be useful in reduced loads? Plus it meters like a dream whereas 4759 is more on the order of nightmare.

[Rodfac]

Earl, I rounded the necks on ten pieces last night using a 7.62x39 bullet (couldn't find my .32-20 dies), then chamfered the edges, removing any small nicks. All ten sized perfectly...thanks for the tip.

Jeff Bartlett comes up with different powders from time to time that are very useful. I've got Herco, and Ac#9 pull down powder that uses those named data that coincides almost exactly with my chrono results with the originals. He used to be a lot cheaper, but it's still a cpl of bucks per pound and that's worth the drive over from Louisville. My son and I take a motorcycle day trip out when we need powder.

I was stationed out your way back in the '70's flying KC-135's out of Fairchild AFB up in Spokane. Thought we'd retire up there as we both loved the country but our kids are here and more importantly, our grand-daughters are here...and that's that!

Best Regards, Rod

[ole_270]

Ole 270, interesting jury-rig for the case length problem. I'd like to get that Redding Form & Trim but wonder just how it works any better than using the .25-20 sizing die with the decapping rod removed. Does it reduce the neck dia. by half or what? Too, Redding is pretty proud if it price wise.

Best Regards, Rod

I don't remember the exact dia. the Redding die reduces to, but it's most of the way down to the final size. It leaves .01-.02 dia for the main size die. I don't worry about running it clear up to the shoulder, just get close, the final size will finish it easily. Some guys get away with pulling the seating plug from the 25-20 seating die and using that, seems to be about the same size as the Redding.

My best powder in this rifle has been 4198. I'm running 9.2gr with a plain based NOE version of the 257283 for my plinking loads, around 1290 fps. I've gone up to 12 gr in my rifle, but usually run the plinking load in this 110 year old Marlin.
Back when I was running the Lyman 257420 GC bullet, I mainly went with 13 gr 4198 for about 2050 fps, my old Lyman manual goes up to 14 gr. That was a wicked load, would dang near cut a squirrel in half with body shots.

This rifle has a 24" barrel that was relined with a turned down 25-06 barrel so the twist is fairly fast. Might be why I get such good results with the longer 257283 bullet at 89 gr.

[30CalTy]

... I never had great accuracy from my old 87 grain .257312 Lyman boolit in the 25/20, though that's all I shot in mine for many years. And it was a single-cavity mould to begin with which was not a big deal back when I was young enough to be able to do a 5-hour casting session if I wanted a pile of boolits. ...


I have a 257312 mold. It shoots amazing groups from a 257 Roberts. But through a Win92 25-20, I have to push them at Max just to keep them from keyholing. The 257420 bullet shoots beautifully though.



Wish I took better notes on how I made my 25-20's from 32-20's. EDIT: I anneal them first, then run them over a 32 cal expander. Then lube and run them through a 25-20 seating die. Remove the lube, apply a very light dry powder lube (maybe one out of five or ten cases) and size them to 25-20 with the expander ball removed. I'm getting pretty close to 100% good cases this way.

[clum553946]

All of us 25-20 reloaders should contact starline and request that they start producing brass. If they hear from enough of us, they might go into production!

[Rodfac]

Sorry for the delay in responding....been busy this past week. So here's the latest iteration: I went over to 30Cal's method of case forming with really good results. I found the missing 32-20 expander and have used that to round the case mouths prior to annealing; then trim/chamfer to obtain a smooth case mouth. Per 30Cal's suggestion, I lube very lightly and run 'em up into the .25-20 Seating Die. One good thing here is that I didn't have to remove the seating stem as the case does not extend that far in...pretty obvious I guess. Then I wipe down the neck and shoulder, leaving a bit of lube on the case body. Then it's off to the .25-20 sizer with the decapping stem removed. Slowly, in one continuous pass, I finish the remainder of the neck and shoulder. It's a good case when it comes out, needing minimal fire-forming. I re-anneal after 4-5 loadings and haven't lost a case to shoulder nor neck splits yet. Success! Since amending the process, I haven't lost a case in the reforming operation.

My best load, and the one I use to "fire-form" the case, is one of 35 Remington's favorites: 5.5 grains of 2400 with either the Lyman 257420GC or RCBS's 85 grain PB FP. With the Remington, I use a bit of dacron polyester quilting batting per 35 Remington's suggestion to reduce vertical stringing. (the base of that RCBS bullet sticks down pretty far into the shoulder area for my liking and I can't seat it out due to chamber/throat dimensions in my Winchester Model 65). Either bullet with that load will put 5 into ~1/2" at 35 yds off my porch rail with a bead front sight and a Marble's Tang rear. And...it'll give that kind of accuracy during the first loading, while fire-forming! Also, I'm using only a hint of taper crimp to remove the "M" die's flare, as case neck tension is more than adequate to prevent bullet set back in the magazine. I use RCBS dies of standard configuration, and the "M" die.

35 Remington advised that using only Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) would suffice if the dacron tuft is added to keep the powder down next to the primer. It does that in my tests and accuracy was improved by 1/4" or so at 35 yds. I've not recovered any bullets yet to check for gas blow by/cutting but suspect, as .35 Remington reports, that the tuft helps prevent flame cutting. Too, the RCBS bullet has those large, black powder type of lube grooves, and if both are filled, the bullet appears over lubricated, with subsequent group enlargement. I've shot it with the lower groove partially to 3/4 full, as well as with LLA alone and grouping appears to be the same; in a word, superb...again, I'm shooting off the porch rail with only a fwd. hand support, not at a bench rest of any kind; so fine nuances in group size are tough to see.

Hundred yard groups are satisfying, if not well documented. I'm getting 2" or a bit more on my metal plates, shooting from the porch rail. It's a kick to hear the clink echoing back, round after round, and then spotting those tight clusters.

Initially, I was using CCI Sm Pistol Mag primers but switched over to Winchester SP's when I began using 2400. Truth be told, I can't say whether it's made a difference or not,as groups are at the limit of my visual acuity, and aren't going to get any better without a scope...and padnuh, that's not happening...that Winchester 65 is in "just about" as new condition.

Lastly, casting with an allot of WW&Pb (2:1)+<1% tin, leading has not reared it's ugly head....knock on wood... The LLA lubed bullets work just fine, group well and sure are easy to put up. My Lyman 257420GC drops at 0.259" from the mold, so no real sizing is done. The RCBS 85 is bigger, going a full 0.260", so I'm sizing it to 0.259" in an ancient Lyman 45 Lubrisizer (Ca 1971!). The 5.5 gr-2400 load is a mild one, 1100 fps with the RCBS and ~1300 fps with 257420GC; so that in itself mitigates against any leading problems. I water quenched one batch and air cooled another with no leading differences and group size remained the same...

HTH's Rod...thanks 30Cal, good suggestions, and PS: I've cast upwards of 750 of the 257420GC, and that'll hold me for a cpl years. You can give the RCBS a try out if you're interested....Bat

[Rodfac]

Thought I'd post a pic of my Winchester M-65 in .25-20. It's in excellent condition as is evident in the pic with minor bluing wear on a few of the edges. The bore is as perfect as the day it left New Haven.

I've had good luck so far with loads as previously noted. Winchester 231 is especially good for 1100-1200 fps with either the RCBS 85 gr PBFP or Lyman's 257420GC. I've had equal grouping with them sized 0.259"-0.260" when cast from WW/Pb 2:1 or 3:1. I size both to 0.259-0.260" [pretty much as cast] and find that LLA or 45-45-10 does really well at 1100 fps. With the Lyman bullet, at 1350 fps, I lube only the lower groove in a Lyman 450 Lubrisizer. I'm also water quenching all of my bullets now, and giving them at least one thinned coat of LLA or 45-45-10. With the low power 231 loads, this is all they need, either bullet.

The rifle's got a Marble's windage and elevation adjustable tang peep that really helps, as does a dab of "white out" type-writer correction fluid on the front bead.

I'll post more results as I get them... and BTW, I had my first post annealing case loss this afternoon. A vertical split where the neck and shoulder meet. On closer examination, it looks like I got a minor crease there when forming the case from Starline's excellent .32-20 brass. This particular case was reloaded 7 times...not a bad run in my opinion.

https://s26.postimg.org/ydqv9x3yh/IMG_E3036.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hpzd7f96t/)

[breakaction]

All of us 25-20 reloaders should contact starline and request that they start producing brass. If they hear from enough of us, they might go into production!

Let's tally up members that are going to commit to a manufacturing run of 25-20. I have read that a run is 50,000 cases, how many of us will commit? We must get others to go along with us.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I've been reforming Starline 32/20 brass for about 4 years, necking down to 25/20 and 218 Mashburn Bee. About a month ago Winchester 25/20 and Hornady 218 Bee brass became available!

https://i.imgur.com/6AFUHJM.jpg

[kirb]

I would be in for some 25-20 brass

Kirb

[panhed65]

the Winchester 25-20 brass has been around last few months, I bought a bunch from a place that is sold out now, but there is some here in the classifieds and a bunch on GB not priced too high. time to get it is when you see it.
Barry

[Eddie Southgate]

the Winchester 25-20 brass has been around last few months, I bought a bunch from a place that is sold out now, but there is some here in the classifieds and a bunch on GB not priced too high. time to get it is when you see it.
Barry

Over $40 per 50 for $16 per 50 brass not too high ? Id rather pay loaded ammo price to my local shop than be scalped by somebody taking advantage of the current situation . I bought 2 boxes of Remington ammo on closeout at a local shop for $45 per box . I am on two notice lists for brass but have not heard a thing after being on them for months .

Starline ain't gonna make 25-20 brass , wont fit in an AR or a Glock . They have been asked to make it and .218 Bee an untold number of times and the response has been negative in every case , not even a maybe at some future date . They will make odd limited demand brass for Cowboy Action shooting .Makes no sense to me .

[square butte]

ET Brass showing Winchester brand 25-20 in stock at $19 per 50. I bought some from them not to long ago. It's not too bad a price these days considering what has been asked in the not too distant past

[panhed65]

ET Brass showing Winchester brand 25-20 in stock at $19 per 50. I bought some from them not to long ago. It's not too bad a price these days considering what has been asked in the not too distant past
I was not going to mention the name, but yes, this is where I got a few hundred of the ww 25-20 for that price, and also 500 of the Remington 25-20bullets. so I am set since I mostly shoot the 257-420 cast. but still, for those who have little or none, well if you want it, you have to pay, simple as that to me. right now, there are people bidding up primers to over $200. per brick, which is really crazy.
Barry

[Eddie Southgate]

ET is out same as everybody else , not much need in keeping it a secret .:mrgreen:

[rbuck351]

If Starline is making 32/20 brass they can make 25/20 with few mods to equipment. Also, they used to make 25/20 so probably already have the tools to make more.

[quack1]

Easiest way to make 25-20 from 32-20 is to first make sure the mouths are round, then anneal the necks. After that, run the lubed brass into the 25-20 bullet seating die, this will start the neck reduction. Then remove the expander/decap stem from the sizing die and full length size the lubed brass in increments, redistributing the lube with your fingers between each increment. The last thing I did was trim slightly to square up the mouths. That's it, no other dies needed. I've done a few hundred and never lost a case. The first couple I did had a few shallow lube dents, but a slight adjustment in the amount of lube I was using eliminated that problem. Here's a picture of the 3 steps- annealed 32-20, after a pass through the seating die, and a finished 25-20.
https://i.imgur.com/vPDoJVtl.jpg

[Drm50]

I have several thousand 1x & 2x 25/20 brass. Mostly Remington from 80s & 90s. I have Win and Rem 25/20 JSP but my 25/20 Keepers are both pre WW2 rifles and do much better with cast at .259”. My 53 Win has one of the best bores I have seen in 25/20s, and I have looked at a lot of them.

[Eddie Southgate]

ET Brass showing Winchester brand 25-20 in stock at $19 per 50. I bought some from them not to long ago. It's not too bad a price these days considering what has been asked in the not too distant past

Et Brass only shows a list of what they carry but do not note that most of it is out of stock . You have to email or call them on anything you are interested in . They do list the Winchester 25-20 cases but have none in stock . The lady I contacted said she will try to send me a notice when and if they get any more . I will share that info if and when I receive it ,,,,, after I place my order. :wink:

[Eddie Southgate]

If Starline is making 32/20 brass they can make 25/20 with few mods to equipment. Also, they used to make 25/20 so probably already have the tools to make more.

I thought I had seen them list both 25-20 and .218 bee in times past . I am thinking Graf had them years ago but both are long gone from both of their listings . I could make them from 32-20 but I won't . I am not in a great big rush to buy more so will wait till more Winchester hits the market and hope I can get in on it before the profiteers buy it all up to resell at double or more what it is worth.