.38 S&W (NOT Special) Velocity vs. Barrel Length and Cylinder Gap

[Outpost75]

Velocity Data of Factory .38 S&W Loads vs. Cylinder Gap and Barrel length:

Firearm____________S&W 32-1__Colt_____Ruger____W&S Mk4____S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”_______4”_______4”________4”____ _____5”___________20”
Cyl. Gap_pass 0.004/hold 0.005_0.005/.006_.004/.005 .005/.006__ _.008/.009_____Solid bbl. Ammunition________________________________________ _______________
FN Mk2z_1984_______577,8 Sd__616, 10___618,19 ___616, 10______571,22______Stuck in bbl!
Kynoch 146LRN (WW2)_623,26___649, 31___650,22___695, 7 _______685, 22_____848, 7
WRA 146LRN (WW2)__659, 10___701, 13___727, 5____702, 22_______681, 14_____787, 14
RemUMC146LRN(WW2)_668, 22__768, 14___765, 15___n/f__________754, 10_____ 920, 14
Fiocchi 146 LRN______706, 12___809, 21___820, 23___794,14_______709, 24_____985, 9
R-P 146 LRN_________603, 14___674, 12___697,18___668, 190______627,22_____790,10
W-W 146 LRN_______586, 18___593, 36___662, 29__643, 15_______620, 19_____801, 12

Column Mean Vel.____631______687_____705_____686___________664 ________855

Accurate 36-155D
6.3#2400___________696, 26__n/f_____854, 32___n/f__________n/f_________1058, 23 +P modern guns only
2.5 Bullseye_________629, 8___727, 12__735, 16___n/f__________680, 25_____856, 22 Factory Dup. Load

The .38 S&W cartridge has about the same velocity and energy as a .38 Special wadcutter fired from the same barrel length. In modern guns you can boost performance up to .38 Special levels, but not recommended for the S&W Victory Model, Webley topbreaks, etc. The 20" rook rifle gets standard pressure .38 Special performance from the longer barrel, and can match .38 Special +P ballistics with handloads suited for strong, postwar revolvers like the S&W Model 32 or 33, and the India Model Rugers.
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[Love Life]

You have the coolest guns!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[largom]

Since I have a S&W Victory your info is very useful.
THANKS, Larry

[Outpost75]

Since I have a S&W Victory your info is very useful.
THANKS, Larry

If your Victory Model is zeroed with the Mk2 Ball load, the Accurate 36-176P is your bullet of choice to agree with the sights. I ran out of light today before I had a chance to chronograph them.

213019

[Bigslug]

Outpost. . .

You know that upscaled Winchester 1890 pump .38 concept we were talking about on the "big" thread?

You ain't exactly driving the notion from my mind with this stuff. . .:not listening:

[Outpost75]

Outpost. . .

You know that upscaled Winchester 1890 pump .38 concept we were talking about on the "big" thread?

You ain't exactly driving the notion from my mind with this stuff. . .:not listening:

I feel your pain! Heartfelt appologies!

Having John Taylor add another barrel to the pile for the Infamous Bunny Gun is relatively affordable.
John is keeping the custom Manson .38 S&W Rook Rifle reamer because we both felt that having that chambering readily available for folks as a rifle option for relining and rechambering weak, antique, black powder actions was a good idea. Factory .38 S&W loads don't exceed 14,000psi and there are no factory +P loads out there. For this one we used a Green Mountain 1:10" twist 9mm Parabellum "Gunsmith Special" blank, because my primary interest is working up a very quiet load, but deep penetrating and hard hitting with the Accurate 36-190T bullet at the minimum velocity which exits the barrel reliably. I'm figuring a normal .38 S&W 600 fps "revolver load" with the 190-grain bullet and about 2 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup should be VERY quiet in the rifle and probably won't exceed about 750 fps from a 20" rifle barrel... But in the 1:10" twist would be very stable, a deep penetrator and hit hard.

213029

FYI 34-1/2 inches overall, 4-1/2 pounds.

213028

[Bigslug]

213029


And it even LOOKS like a .22LR!

[Outpost75]

And it even LOOKS like a .22LR!

On steroids!

[9.3X62AL]

On steroids!

And a gym rat! :-)

Having far more stalwart 357 Magnum war toys in the safe, it has never crossed my mind to try exceeding SAAMI specs with the 38 S&W. The Webley-Enfield and the Lend-Lease S&W M&P get the 38/200 loadings (NEI #169A @ 675 FPS or so) and 2 little jewels--a Colt Police Positive (1920) and a S&W Regulation Police (1933) digest Lyman #358477 at just a bit over 700 FPS. Both of these latter arms have 4" barrels, and both are ACCURATE. The S&W M&P is fairly accurate, also. The W-E is easily refilled (if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all).

The 38 S&W has been doing work for 140+ years. In these days of a all-day magazine capacities and uber-magnum pressures and ballistics, the 38 S&W seems comparatively sedate and obsolescent.......a holdover from a simpler time. For the modern-day shooter, the 38 S&W in a good wheelgun (or a nice little rifle like that shown by Outpost 75) is a delight for taking small game and varmints or just poking holes in paper and cardboard and tumbling empty beverage cans. It was only recently that 22 LR ammunition again became generally available, and through those drought years I kept myself entertained with 32s and 38 S&Ws loaded to low intensities. My SP-101 in 327 Federal is on a diet of RCBS 32-98-SWC put up in 327 brass but propelled from 750-950 FPS. There is a time and a place for Donner und Blitzen, but not frequently nor for sustained strings of fire. (Full-potential 327 Federals are louder than Hell's Drumline--I am too old for a whole lot of that diversion).

I shoot A LOT of 38 S&W.

[Piedmont]

How about a .44 Russian version of this for the same reasons? No hotter high pressure loadings floating around out there to cause trouble and it is a short, efficient case that adapts well to downloading and has a rim.

[Outpost75]

How about a .44 Russian version of this for the same reasons? No hotter high pressure loadings floating around out there to cause trouble and it is a short, efficient case that adapts well to downloading and has a rim.

No reason that can't be done. All it takes is money.

My .45 ACP barrel was produced with a rim seat so that it would shoot .455 Webley, too

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[Bigslug]

Having far more stalwart 357 Magnum war toys in the safe, it has never crossed my mind to try exceeding SAAMI specs with the 38 S&W. . .

It's an interesting twist on history that this very topic never got properly revisited. The .455 Webley MKI case got shortened to the MKII to maintain an efficient burn when switching from black powder to cordite, and we have no shortage of discussion on how best to adapt the voluminous .45 Colt to smokeless.

Then we have the .38 Special - a black powder cartridge of adequate power that successfully switched to smokeless without missing a beat. Perfectly acceptable for most of its tasks. . .it's just so. . .darned. . .LONG. Hot loadings of .38 S&W and .38 S.C. would have essentially been the .455 MKII version of the .38 Special, in much smaller-framed guns. True, the .38 Webleys kinda did this, but they were pure weapons of war, and so far as I know, nobody really bothered to refine the concept.

Yes, we tend to think concealment for such things, and rightly so, but I'm also thinking of a long, spindly-barreled target revolver with the balance point about 1-2 inches rearward of what we're used to thinking of with our long-cylindered K-frames, GP-100's, etc... A short, stiff, efficient case with a thick, stiff rim? THAT'S match potential. One would almost go so far as to say that round was wasted on those little B.P. era top breaks.

We tell the big companies what to make, but do they listen?