USA 1 SHOT Pistol Brace

[W.R.Buchanan]

THE coolest thing at the SHOT Show this year was this,,, Goto www.usa1shot.com

This is a pistol brace that allows you to use your pistol like a Broom Handle Mauser!

However your gun is not attached to it, it only provides a very tight pocket that allows you to retain the attachment to the gun with only your firing hand grip.

It is a pistol brace which is similar in function, but does not work like the Sig Brace which is permanently attached to the gun.

This thing turns your Glock or other pistol into a 100 yard carbine. The gun doesn't flop around while you are holding it in the pocket, each model fits the grip of it's gun "Perfectly!" it is rock steady!

Since your gun is not mechanically attached either temporarily or permanently to the device, it is totally sanctified as completely legal by the ATF!

I saw an earlier version of this at the show last year, but they hadn't gotten ATF approval yet and as such it was LEO and Military only. I actually tried to take pics so I could make one out of plywood for my own use.

Now anyone can buy one, and I did! It will completely change the dynamic of my G35 with the Burris Fast-Fire Red Dot and my G23 with Night Sights, both of which will fit right in the pocket. Several versions currently available.

I can't wait till later this week when it arrives. Here's a pic in the meantime.
Randy
__________________
It's not how well you do, what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do, what you DON'T know how to do!

[9.3X62AL]

Interesting innovation.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I can't believe more of you haven't shown interest in this device. This thing was by far the most innovative thing at the whole SHOT Show last week and I looked at everything in the building.

They are getting 6" groups at 100 yards from a Glock 22 with a Red Dot Sight! They had a video playing that showed a guy making a 380 yard hit with a G20 with a Red Dot!

This is Elmer Keith level shooting, but with normal guys who aren't even close to Elmer Keith.

Randy

[mcdaniel.mac]

I'm glad to hear it was at SHOT again. I have been watching their FB page but haven't found any for sale.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

[Thundarstick]

Been doing that with a crooked stick for years!

[Tracy]

I've often wondered if it would be legal to build and use something like that.

Wait a minute... that's not a buttstock; it's a wrist brace!

[FergusonTO35]

If it is not a "buttstock" as far as NFA is concerned, why do they have a pistol brace attached to it? Neat idea, one that I have considered many times for big bore revolvers.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Many years ago, folks were selling this same basic thing for 1911s. Your hand held the 'stock' to the pistol's grip, so that there was no permanent attachment, and the BATFE at that time (temporarily at least) stated that it was legal. I've been asking around if folks know if the BATFE has changed their mind on this - Well, apparently not. Not exactly super "innovative", but does look like an improvement on the earlier model.

[376Steyr]

I recall seeing a brace for pistol shooting that used either a glove or a wrist cuff on the shooter's hand, then a metal buttstock was attached to the glove and rested against the shooter's shoulder. This would have been in the late '60's or early '70's. Shooter held the gun normally, and nothing was attached to the gun.

[John Ross]

I recall seeing a brace for pistol shooting that used either a glove or a wrist cuff on the shooter's hand, then a metal buttstock was attached to the glove and rested against the shooter's shoulder. This would have been in the late '60's or early '70's. Shooter held the gun normally, and nothing was attached to the gun.

Deadeye Associates 1974. I had one briefly.

They wanted you to mount a normal, high-magnification riflescope on your handgun, which made the handgun all but useless without the brace. Accuracy was worse with iron sights because the short LOP put your eye much too close to the rear sight for precise alignment.

Might have been okay with red dot sights, if we'd had them then...

213099

[Earlwb]

It does look pretty interesting. But I think that showing pictures of people using it like a buttstock may eventually get the ATF upset about it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK that's more like it!

The ATF has already signed off on it and I will get a copy of the letter with the device. The operative point here is that it is "NOT" attached to the gun in any way. If you loosen your grip it falls away.

It is a Buttstock with a relatively short LOP I will probably lengthen it a little. The ones I played with at the show shouldered nicely.

I will give more impressions when I get the thing in hand, and can answer questions directly and accurately.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ferg: I talked to the engineer who designed the thing yesterday for about 40 minutes. The Revolver Idea had been discussed, I asked about it, but the problem is that it transfers all the recoil directly to the device which in turn transfers it to your shoulder.

In my case it would be a .44 Magnum SBH/Rifle that weighs 3-4 lbs. which wouldn't be all that pleasant to shoot. In addition there is no beavertail on a Revolver grip to control upward movement during recoil, so the gun would probably fall out of the brace with every shot. I don't see it working very well if at all.

Randy

[Ickisrulz]

The ATF has already signed off on it and I will get a copy of the letter with the device. The operative point here is that it is "NOT" attached to the gun in any way.
Randy

If it is not attached to the pistol why not an actual stock? Since it has a pistol brace, why not attach it to the gun?

[FergusonTO35]

Maybe the picture was made before they had the ATF letter, and they decided to play it safe with a brace instead of a stock?

[JSH]

Yeah, wait till some clown becomes you tube famous touching off a big wheel gun with that thing.
Got some cool factor but I don't see the purpose myself.
Now if they made it as a walking stick that would collapse they might have somthing

[lefty o]

just my opinion, but if im going to screw around with that thing, id rather just carry a short rifle with a 16" barrel.

[35remington]

I am sure that those wanting one will have their fun with it.

In my case I am wondering where to stow the ungainly thing when it is not being used. A holster for it appears undesirable. My contrary side says if I really need the accuracy of a buttstock more than likely I carry a little carbine like a TC Contender, which has way more hit potential and inherent accuracy. If my purpose afield is to hit something at ranges where handguns become problematic I go to the real upgrade, not an almost equally burdensome half measure.

Call me a Luddite, I guess. Ratcheting down the convenience factor to near carbine bulk means I pack a real carbine instead. Perhaps I speak for nobody but myself, but often I pack a handgun because the shooting afield is secondary. Or that I want the challenge of the actual hand gun. Running bank lines, trot lines or trap lines come to mind, or woods walking. And sometimes we do not have to hit but rather just see if our skill level lets us hit. That would be the plinking part and I love to plink with the difficult to master hand gun.

This became a kind of explanation/rationale after all.

[contender1]

I saw that at SHOT. Interesting for sure,,, for folks who have guns of the models they offer. And,,, for folks who are a bit unsteady in handgunning,,, they can help.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Some things like this're more for use at the range / for just goofing off; Not sure if this'd be a thing to carry when hunting or hiking the Pacific Crest Trail really. But you CAN have fun in other contexts than hunting - It's allowed :P

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys this thing isn't being made for Hunting or Walking around in the woods. It is a Tactical attachment for someone who can't carry a carbine, and yet can use more accuracy than can be attained from a normal pistol.

If you go to the Website there are videos that explain/show its use a little better. For use in a CQB situation it gives rifle like accuracy without the added bulk of a longer barrel. It weighs about 1 pound and can be slung for carry while your pistol resides in it's holster or retention holster. It allows you to have quick access to rifle like accuracy while still allowing both hands free to do other tasks.

These are already in use in many Govt. Agencies, FBI, HLS, Military, Law Enforcement etc. They have only become available for civilian use recently after the ATF OK'd them.

For recreational use I see them being used in 3 gun shoots and PCC matches soon and that is my intended use.

Randy

[curioushooter]

Is this thing concealable? It's pretty obvious it's not for a broken wrist.

[rking22]

250$ !!!! Simply amazing...

[dverna]

I wonder how easy and natural it will be to draw the pistol, place it in the stock, and bring the assembly up. And how the stock is carried on you when not needed.

The price seems rather high. For another $300, I get the new Ruger carbine and a longer barrel albeit in a bulkier package but one I am used to using.

But it may be nice to have in the truck or UTV when carrying the pistol if one needs to take a long shot at a critter.

Randy, you produce things so I ask you....does it look like it is worth what they are asking for it? Frankly, I see clones coming out at half the price.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got mine at the SHOT Price which was a little less but It is a little high priced in my opinion as well. They have been selling to the Govt. so that is a factor in pricing since they have to jump thru all the DLA hoops, which after spending 4 months to finally get a product sold to them, I assure you have a significant effect on pricing of everything they buy. I know that next time my product will cost them twice as much. The BS and stupid people you have deal with is unconscionable.

In it's defense,,, the thing is pretty nicely made. Not some cheap plastic toy, it is meant to be used and carried. Built to Mil Spec.

There are videos on the website which show it being carried with a little sling which I will make myself as opposed to $129 for some strap and QD sling swivels.

As far as knocking it off,,, they have got it pretty well protected and it would be a mistake for anyone in the world to try to knock it off.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Could definitely make one for personal use tho.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sheesh: I wanted to build one last year when the design was fresh in my head, but I never got around to it.

However what they were selling this year is different and fits the guns better.

Buying one that works out of the box was better than making one that didn't work right the first time. If you had to make it twice to get it to work right, you'd lose money. Also there is a lot of little fine points in the design that aren't evident unless you actually handle the thing. Those points would have been missing on my knockoff.

One such point is the fact that the gun is canted to the right in the pocket to compensate for misalignment between your shoulder and eye line. The one from last year didn't have that feature, also the MOE QD Sling attachment points weren't in last years version.

Lots more to this thing than meets the eye. I'll give a in depth expose' on it when it gets here which should have been today and I'm pissed that I can't play with my new toy tonight! Wah.

Randy

[lefty o]

I got mine at the SHOT Price which was a little less but It is a little high priced in my opinion as well. They have been selling to the Govt. so that is a factor in pricing since they have to jump thru all the DLA hoops, which after spending 4 months to finally get a product sold to them, I assure you have a significant effect on pricing of everything they buy. I know that next time my product will cost them twice as much. The BS and stupid people you have deal with is unconscionable.

In it's defense,,, the thing is pretty nicely made. Not some cheap plastic toy, it is meant to be used and carried. Built to Mil Spec.

There are videos on the website which show it being carried with a little sling which I will make myself as opposed to $129 for some strap and QD sling swivels.

As far as knocking it off,,, they have got it pretty well protected and it would be a mistake for anyone in the world to try to knock it off.

there is a "mil-spec" on this toy?

[W.R.Buchanan]

there is a "mil-spec" on this toy?

Everything the Govt. buys gets some kind of Mil Spec attached to it as soon as the Govt. buys it.

If it is a new buy then the producer defines what the specs are and if anyone else tries to knock it off they must comply with those specs. Generally when somebody designs something that gets picked up by a lot of users they make it so it is not easy to follow. My Hand Press is a good example of that. It is so complicated that it would be difficult to knock off, and actually make any money doing it. I'm not!

The other way to get around the knock off artist is to become "Sole Source" for a product by declaring it to be "Proprietary." I have done this successfully several times and try to do it with everything I make for the Govt. as I don't want any competition. Certain things I make are very simple and easily could be made by anyone with a drill press in their garage, however they have a "BPM" Part number so I am the Sole Source. Others can bid on the product but they must buy it from me, which causes a bit of a problem as I am always going to be cheaper, thus I maintain my status as sole source.

Accurate Pistol Systems has sold numerous units to various Govt. Agencies and have established themselves as providing a unique product to those agencies, so the agencies are going to go directly to them for this product. Others may try to come up with a similar product but ultimately they will have to get around the patents which will prove challenging and then they would have to convince the Govt. that they had a superior product at a lower price..

Net result is "First you spend a Million Dollars,,, and they you try to make it back."

Randy

[lefty o]

so again, is there a mil spec on this toy?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes there are many Mil Specs related to this toy. Not just one, as the part has to comply with many specifications regarding materials, dimensions, and other BS that is acceptable to the Govt.

You are confusing a Mil Spec which is a specific call out such as a dimension on a drawing, (the term is largely misused) with an NSN, "National Stock Number" which is a specific inventory number.

An M4 rifle complies with many Mil-Specs. It is not "Mil Spec" by itself. It also has an NSN. There is a Mil Spec that defines the gun and references all other specs for the gun and this is because many manufacturers actually make that exact gun and the products from all of them have to be virtually identical. IE: all the parts must interchange.

The NSN includes the Classification of the Part, and it directs you to references for all the specs for the part including design, materials, if the thing was assembled by Native Americans on Tuesday, and about 100 other BS regulations that are included in the package for that "acquisition" and must be complied with in order to sell anything to the DLA.(Defense Logistics Agency) In other words all the information regarding this item.

These regulations are called FAR's or Federal Acquisition Regulations which are the general regulations, and there are a lot of them, covering just about everything known to man. Some are needed for the sake of quality control and interchangeability, and many are simply pointless Liberal Drivel added by the last Admin.

This outfit has worked with Govt. Agencies over the last two years to generate an acceptable product for Military and Law Enforcement customers that complies with whatever Military Specifications are applicable to the product.

If I could find out the NSN number I could find out everything there is to know about who has bought this item in the past, what they paid for it, how many they bought, and how many times they bought it.

After the patents ran out, the drawings for the item would be available from a Govt. Archive and competitive bidding could take place. As long as you are within the Manufacturers Classification required to make the item, you can bid on the part and if you are the lowest bidder you will get the contract. Period!

Glock got beat out by Sig for the Army Handgun Contract because they submitted a product that complied with all the Mil Specs for that product and they were cheaper. Note that a Glock looks nothing like a P320 but they both do the same thing, unfortunately Sig did it cheaper.

Another thing to note is that the costs to develop this product for Govt. use are not cheap and contribute to the retail cost of the item. In fact I would bet they are 75% of the cost of the item. The Govt. pays too much for everything they buy specifically because of all the hoops (FAR's) you are required to jump thru to make a sale. People have to charge for the BS. The other way you try to make it up is with volume sales. Sig vs Glock!

Randy

[lefty o]

im not confusing anything, you claimed this toy is mil-spec, i asked you a simple question. i will tell you right now, that you are wrong that anything purchased by the military has a military specification. i used to open purchase stuff quite often, stuff that was in no way shape or form mil spec, and just because we in the military used it did not, and does not make it mil-spec. if you dont know a military specification for this thing, say so, dont need a book written on what you think.

[str8wal]

Meh ;-)

[W.R.Buchanan]

You know,,, I thought I explained it pretty well :>)

Sorry if it didn't answer your question, even though it should have.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Leftyo: After a lengthy conversation with the Engineer/designer yesterday, he told me that a Mil Spec is being developed/assigned for the 'Unique" Polymer that the device is made from, in addition to the General Mil Specs that the device already has to comply with under it's NSN Classification #.

That class # almost has to be "Firearms Parts or Accessories" which is pretty broad. It would encompass things like replacement parts, slings, vertical handgrips, cases, other doodads that are related to weapons.

Randy

[lefty o]

Leftyo: After a lengthy conversation with the Engineer/designer yesterday, he told me that a Mil Spec is being developed/assigned for the 'Unique" Polymer that the device is made from, in addition to the General Mil Specs that the device already has to comply with under it's NSN Classification #.

That class # almost has to be "Firearms Parts or Accessories" which is pretty broad. It would encompass things like replacement parts, slings, vertical handgrips, cases, other doodads that are related to weapons.

Randy

so the answer to my question is, no. thank you.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well the Device showed up today and it works great!!!

I immediately started dry firing my various Glocks in the thing, and it became evident IMMEDIATELY how much steadier the pistol is during firing.

With a Red Dot Mounted most of you already know you can see every little movement of the dot during Trigger Pull. Well you can also see when it doesn't move! and I had no problem getting up to speed with a sight picture that I didn't have to search for and that didn't move during trigger pull.

It fit my G35 and G23 perfectly. My G21SF is not quite as good a fit, but it wasn't designed for that gun anyway. There is a typo on the Website which says 17,19,21 which should be 22.

One thing I had not considered was My SIRT Laser Training Pistol, which also has a Glock 17 grip form. It fits and is a great training tool.

I was able to hit the screws on Light switch covers around my shop within seconds of playing with it. 30-75 feet no sweat! Then I went outside and was able to hit golf ball sized rocks at 50 yards + no sweat! All with open sights, and pretty coarse ones at that!

I have lots of little birdies on my property because my wife feeds them. I could hit them in the eye easily,,,

I am going to shoot it with real ammo tomorrow and will report back as to my results. I know I will really need a video to convince some of you guys,,, but so far just playing with the laser pistol it is a winner big time, and it increases your accuracy dramatically! That has to be a good thing?

More to come.

Randy

[Nines&Twos]

I’m glad anyone who wants one can have one.

As for me, I don’t see it being worth the plastic it took to make it. Different strokes for different folks.

[Lloyd Smale]

I like this better. Easy to stick your glock in. You don't have to modify or put a red dot on your glock as you can put it right on the rail along with a lazer, flashlight ect if you want. If your in some kind of a combat situation its not going to be knocked off your shoulder. it also gives you somewhere for your support hand to support the gun so it would be much steadier to shoot off hand. https://usa.caagearup.com/caa-micro-roni

[W.R.Buchanan]

I shot the gun today in a 40 mph crosswind.

After I corrected the elevation for 50M I was hitting Silhouette Chickens every shot.

Then I shot at Pigs at 100M after first two shots to get holdover, then 3 for 3.

After first shot at Turkey @150M to get holdover I was 2 for 3.

This thing steadies the gun down like I can believe. The dot is rock solid on target.

It weighs 22 oz. and after I get a simple sling set up on it probably less than 2 lbs.

You can get out of it really fast (2 seconds) and transition to pistol if you need to, and back in if you need longer range accuracy in 2 seconds as well.

Inside the house or outside the only reason you'd need to get out of it is to re-holster the gun. It is so much faster than a full sized rifle for close encounters it is nuts. No need for a PCC as this is best of both worlds. It is the SBR you've always wanted without any of the Legal BS.

My last trip to Front Sight I shot my G35 with the Burris Fast Fire on it for the first day of the pistol class. There were 8-10 other guys in that class with Red Dots on their guns. It is the wave of the future, but this brace really brings out the best in the Pistol Mounted Red Dot as it takes the shake right out of it.

Didn't shoot the G23 while there, as it was just to **** cold. All the way down to 45 F which for me Growing up in SoCal is like -10F to you's guys back east.

I also found it would make a pretty decent Tomahawk/Club in a pinch :mrgreen:

Randy

[35remington]

Where do you plan to hang the stock on your person when the pistol is riding in a holster?

The Luddite in me cannot help but think with stock attached to a Glock or most other plastikpistoles you now have a low powered rifle that can’t do better than 8-10 MOA at best. Once the stock is attached the limitations of the pistol end of the assembly become more apparent as service pistols of this type are not exactly tackdrivers.

Please excuse the commentary as I am sure that if you are having fun you no doubt are.

[jcren]

All a matter of use and opinion. I would love one. Since we have hogs I like to walk the land regularly just to see what's doing and maybe bump into some pigs. I always carry a pistol for snakes, close encounters and the occasional trespasser AND usually carry a rifle in case I see hogs or yotes across a field or from a hilltop. To be able to strap on a 1911 and swing that on a cross-body tac sling would kill 2 birds with much less weight and keep my hands free.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I guess my one question would be why use a brace on it instead of a stock. It's not permanently attached to the weapon, actually never attached at all, so why bother with a $100 brace instead of a $40 stock?

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[dverna]

Randy,
I for one appreciate the write up

I have settled on Glocks for defensive pistols. I have been looking at the new Ruger carbine so I can have magazine interchangeability. This option is interesting but I doubt it will match the accuracy of a rifle....yet it may be good enough.

I think 35 Rem is right about the accuracy we can expect. At least with the Glocks I own.

[Ickisrulz]

I guess my one question would be why use a brace on it instead of a stock. It's not permanently attached to the weapon, actually never attached at all, so why bother with a $100 brace instead of a $40 stock?

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This is my question also.

[marlin39a]

I just don't see any use for it. Maybe a high priced toy for use at the range. No thanks.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I just don't see any use for it. Maybe a high priced toy for use at the range. No thanks.Yeah, if they offered one that would fit a Blackhawk or similar I think it would be a great addition to any handgun hunter's kit.

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[tomj44]

This one is a better price. https://suarezinternational.com/personal-defense-weapon-kit-for-glocks/

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I'll start at the bottom and work up.

Tom44. That device attaches to the pistol so it is NFA end of story. The 1 Shot does not attach to the gun in any way. The gun sits up against it and is only held in place by your grip. Release grip and device falls away. It is not NFA! Big difference, also that thing on Suarez's Site is a ***, I've seen them in person.

Mc Daniel: They had some that fit Blackhawks in the initial design phase. Problems were Recoil of the big calibers was transmitted directly to shooter and effectively you had a 4 lb .44 magnum carbine. Also there is no beavertail on a Revolver so the recoil caused the gun to rotate up out of the brace every shot, so it didn't work very well.

Marlin 39A Obviously this device is NOT for everyone. Never said it was. If you had a use for it you would probably want one. I have a use, and it is called "3 gun shoots", where this thing will show it's worth the very first time out.

Don: The accuracy of the 1Shot is not any better than the mechanical accuracy of any pistol, however it is definitely better that you can hold that pistol without help. It does make first shot accuracy exponentially better at all distances but where it is really showing it's worth is on shots from 25+ to 50 or even 75 yards. After I get this thing totally sighted in (thinking 75 yards is best) I will be able to make first round hits out to 100 yards. (on a man sized target)

I was making hits on relatively small Silhouette targets out to 100 Meters with boring regularity. With just a bare G35 I would be lucky to hit a pig target 1 for 5. After correcting for elevation I was 3 for 3 in 5 seconds. at 100 meters offhand. Chickens at 50 Meters are easy hits. Keep in mind, my gun has a Burris Fast-Fire on it, but it has never been of much use since I couldn't hold the gun still enough to refine a sight picture. It was more or less a point and shoot type of thing where as long as I covered the target I would get a hit. With the 1 shot I can hit you everytime in the head at 25 yards from the ready.

Everybody knows that a Glock is not a Target Pistol, however they make this thing for 1911's as well and if you have a 1" at 50 yard 1911,(yes they are out there!) you will have a 1" at 50 yard gun off your shoulder (off a rest) as well. The point of the device is not to increase the accuracy of the gun, it is to increase YOUR accuracy with the gun. Also this device is not going to make your Glock as good as the Ruger Carbine (which I seriously want) But you can't holster a Ruger Carbine either so there is a trade off, which is true of most things.

35 Rem: I want discussion and commentary is OK as well... The sling arrangement they show on the site is just a simple loop that goes over your head and shoulder and the brace hangs next to your side under your arm. I should have one this week to play with will, post pics .

Also I am shooting Short Range Silhouette with this thing Saturday so we'll see what I can do with it at 50-200 Meters. Hopefully the wind won't be blowing 40 mph like it was the other day.

When I get a chance to really put my Glock on paper with the Brace I will get a better Idea of the Mechanical Accuracy of the gun. The Red Dot is 3 MOA so it won't be any better than that, and probably more like 6" at 50 yards which would be more than accurate enough for the intended use of the brace. Being able to pull off a head shot at 25 yards with a Hostage is not something the average LEO is going to feel real confident about. I have only shot about 40 rounds thru my gun with this thing and I would do it in a second. It is that easy to pick up and get comfortable with.

Please note: I can actually shoot my Glock fairly well in the first place and my trigger control is good with the gun so with the brace and the Red Dot it is more about sight picture without having to stabilize the gun as much for the sight picture to be there.

It was received well at my Gun Club meeting last night, where I showed it to some people I figured would be interested. Similar reactions to what we are seeing here, except I had the Laser Pistol there and any one who shot it was sold immediately. Even my Metal Shop Teacher from High School, who is 85, liked it..

Randy

[dverna]

Keep the updates coming Randy.

I agree that a 75 yard zero is a good place to be with something like this. Should yield a point blank range of about 100 yards. Not too shabby IMHO.

[35remington]

Honestly, a 1 inch at fifty yards 1911 is a gun nobody has. As in nobody can prove it, but rather just talks about it. Show me five, five shot groups at 50 fired by a 1911 on the same piece of paper to prove it exists and I will buy the claims. Nobody steps up to that plate for a reason. No 1911 maker or builder has a one inch at fifty accuracy guarantee, also for a reason.

I can see an accurate revolver or an accurized 1911 as being a better choice for a separate stock arrangement than a plastikpistole and would have a hard time understanding why someone would choose a stock Glock for such use over a more accurate pistol.

But then if a target really needs hitting I have to identify it, pull the pistol out of the holster, attach the stock, and squeeze off the shot. In contrast my tiny 25-20 Contender carbine with small 4X scope is merely raised and shot after the target is identified and the overall bulk is little different than a pistol on the belt in a holster along with a separately slung buttstock for the pistol.

To me having a pistol on your belt and a slung buttstock on the same or opposite shoulder is zero gain over sensible alternatives and has some downsides as compared to my very small Contender Carbine slung over one shoulder. Those alternatives and downsides dentified in the paragraph above and below.

Besides being faster into action and presenting little difference in carryability, the accuracy runs between 0.25-0.35 inch at fifty yards with the 75 VMax in the Contender Carbine. No revolver or auto loader can come close to that. Yes, I will show multiple groups if somebody asks. The OTT barrel did come dear, but that is the cost of less compromise and more certainty.

If something needs to be shot I like to put my best foot forward. But the shooting event does not have to be the same level of certainty for everyone.

In giving my reasons for not using an assembly that I clearly regard as a step backwards I certainly cannot invalidate other people’s reasons for wanting to use one. Their reasoning works for them because they say it does and who am I to say they are mistaken if they are happy?

[W.R.Buchanan]

35 Rem: This device is mostly intended for cops and operators (Secret Service, FBI, DHS)who can't carry a rifle full time but could benefit from the extra Accuracy it provides. It may be a little slower to get on target the first time out of the holster, but after that the benefits come directly to the front.

Short maneuverable weapon, that provides improved accuracy over a bare pistol, that can be concealed beneath a suit coat or outer garment, that gives you just enough edge to be worth it if you ever need it.

As far as mounting the device, a little practice goes along way to speeding up the process. I have been playing with it for only a few days and I can get it out and in action in less than 5 seconds, and I know I can get that down to 2-3 seconds with some more practice. And if the gun is already mounted it is just as fast as coming up from the ready with the rifle.

Sure I can get my Carbines in action faster if it is slung Cross Body. If the carbine is hanging on my back the 1Shot is faster.

Believe me when I say "all you have to do is shoot it once and you'll see the benefit." And like I said it was more designed with "Tactical Use" in mind than "Field Use." It will work for both.

As far as the 1" 1911's go,,, I used to work with a guy named Mike Tibbet back in the mid 70's. He was the guy who invented the original Compensated 1911 where the slide indexed on a cone shaped bushing behind the comp on the barrel so it indexed exactly the same way everytime. I have the tool he used to cut the taper in the slide in my tool box.

He had a target on his tool box that he had shot with a gun he built in 38 Super, that had 10 shots in a 1.5" dia. bulls eye! He had shot it OFFHAND and when he told me that I immediately called BS!

He invited me to their next Bowling Pin Shoot where he shot that gun 10 shots (full magazine) into the same 1.5" bull at 50 yards twice in a row, just to show it wasn't a fluke.

I STFU.

All the Bianchi Cup guns will shoot that well because they have to, to be competitive, and any decent Target 1911 will shoot <1" at 25 yards and this has been the prevailing accuracy standard for 1911's for 50+ years.

Randy

[35remington]

I did say I will believe the one inch at fifty 1911 claims when they are seen more than talked about. So far the reverse is true by a margin so enormous it isn’t even measurable. Nobody I know that is credible including our nationally famous Cylinder and Slide here in Fremont regards a “one inch at fifty” guaranteed” 1911 as anything but a figure people who do not regularly work on 1911’s throw around but cannot statistically prove to anyone’s satisfaction.

My ‘splainin on the buttstock topic has mostly to do with addressing the wonderment here that people aren’t stampeding to get in line to buy the gizmos. The basic idea is older than some hills and I doubt the wheel has been reinvented sufficiently to get the gun buying public to regard it as a solution to any problems they cannot solve another way.

I haven’t seen it on industry’s Top Ten lists. So I’ll say harrumph until I’m persuaded otherwise.

Whether someone else regards it as perfect for them is really none of my business and neither they nor I care if anyone is persuaded one way or another. We like what we like and that’s good enough.

[W.R.Buchanan]

35 Rem: this is the latest incarnation of the Broom Handle Mauser with 120 years of new technology included. First ones were 3D printed.

Article in new AR about Mauser Pistols just came today.

I'm shooting short range silhouette tomorrow with it. We'll see how I do.

Randy

[LUBEDUDE]

Many years ago Les Baer used to advertise 1” group guaranteed at 50 yards. He then quietly slid into a 2” guarantee. Now his current ads promise a 3” guarantee.

It makes me wonder if proving it was cause of the wider groups or that demand has grown so much that they just can’t take the time anymore? Or both?

[Tracy]

I guess my one question would be why use a brace on it instead of a stock. It's not permanently attached to the weapon, actually never attached at all, so why bother with a $100 brace instead of a $40 stock?

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

One word: legality.
If it were legal (sans NFA registration) to have a buttstock with a pocket that accepts the grip of a pistol, that is exactly what they would be selling instead of a wrist brace. What makes this legal is not that it doesn't attach to the pistol; it's that it is not a stock.

You could attach it to your pistol with a Velcro strap, epoxy, duct tape or whatever and it would not change its legal classification. But nobody wants to permanently affix a wrist brace to a regular pistol that is not, unlike an AR pistol or whatever, already bulky and unwieldy. That is why it doesn't attach to the pistol.

Otherwise, you could build an AR pistol with just a buffer tube, and carry a buttstock to slip over it. As long as you didn't insert the screw, it would not be attached. But that won't fly, will it? Think about it.

[Lloyd Smale]

my arm brace attaches to my 8.5 in AR pistol and is totally legal. It is not permanently attacked. I can pull it off by hand. But I can do the same with a standard collapsible AR stock too. By the way the shock wave arm brace does have a screw to attach it to a buffer tube and its still legal. What makes a wrist brace legal and not a stock is the wrist brace is just that, a brace to help you hold your handgun better. Like tracy said ITS NOT A STOCK. What you do with it after you install it is on you. bottom line is the batf spends way to much money trying to enforce the stupid gun laws we have. I think there finally seeing the light and are letting some of these things slide. they know an 7 inch ar15 with a wrist brace on it is harder to conceal then one without a wrist brace. that and how many mass shooters are going to choose a 7 inch AR or a glock with some but stock on it anyway. One things for sure though these arm braces, binary triggers, bump stocks, ect are all rolling the dice. If we get a democratic president or more anti gun fever in this country they could easily make them illegal and a guy would have to destroy many hundreds of dollars he spent buying the stuff. Heck the way I figure is if I can have fun this summer shoot a few thousand rounds out of the little gun ive had enough enjoyment to justify it right there.


Tom44. That device attaches to the pistol so it is NFA end of story

[mcdaniel.mac]

One word: legality.
If it were legal (sans NFA registration) to have a buttstock with a pocket that accepts the grip of a pistol, that is exactly what they would be selling instead of a wrist brace. What makes this legal is not that it doesn't attach to the pistol; it's that it is not a stock.

You could attach it to your pistol with a Velcro strap, epoxy, duct tape or whatever and it would not change its legal classification. But nobody wants to permanently affix a wrist brace to a regular pistol that is not, unlike an AR pistol or whatever, already bulky and unwieldy. That is why it doesn't attach to the pistol.

Otherwise, you could build an AR pistol with just a buffer tube, and carry a buttstock to slip over it. As long as you didn't insert the screw, it would not be attached. But that won't fly, will it? Think about it.This device falls free if you're not holding it, it's not attached to the pistol at all. If you slapped a stock on the brace, it still wouldn't be attaching a stock to a pistol because nothing it attached to the pistol.

[35remington]

Doubtless nobody guarantees a one inch at fifty 1911 because nobody could provably do it on demand.....or they would be making the guarantee instead of lowering the bar to what they could actually do. A 3 inch at fifty 1911 is provably deliverable. A one inch is not.

WR, if you would care to shoot some groups and post them I will certainly take a look at them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got to the range late today and only got to shoot 3 mags thru the gun at the silhouettes. I was shooting off hand and kind of sucked. I was close most of the time.

3/10 on chickens at 50M and 2-10 on Pigs at 100M. Shot at dirt clods and rocks for the third mag and killed a bunch of them but they were all 25 Yards or less. Will show some groups when I get a chance to shoot the gun on paper. Do remember it is a Glock so don't expect too much.

I don't own a 1911 so I can't shoot groups with one.

As far as the 1911's I am not talking production guns although Les Baer does pretty well at his guns. A decent 1911 Gold Cup will easily shoot <1" at 25. But a custom 1911 Bulls Eye gun should shoot much better. There are plenty of 1911 Pistol Smiths out there that build these guns and the accuracy has to be better than 1" at 25 yards or they wouldn't be able to make any money.

Also they actually test these guns in a machine rest, not holding them in their hands. This is "mechanical accuracy," and removes some of the variables, then there the Ammo Variable which can be a very big variable indeed.

Randy

[35remington]

Nevertheless, one inch at fifty with a 1911 is not anything that is talked about by those who make them, even for the target trade. Those who know regard it as not something they can produce.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Back to the 1 Shot the ATF backed off on using the Sig Brace from the shoulder as there was no way to enforce it. Last letter I saw posted here said they had reviewed their earlier decision and dismissed it as unenforceable, and therefore not practical to include in the advisory.

1Shot is more of the same except it is not even attached to the gun. Effectively if you took a 15" piece of 2x4 and made a pocket on the end to locate a pistol and had no other attachment it would be the same thing.. The device is well below the "attached to the gun" threshold and even below the Sig Brace in that respect as well so as to not even be close to violating the law.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just got a second model to test and it is for my G21SF. Hope to shoot it tomorrow if it doesn't rain.

The Forrest Service closed our range because it is in the "Burn Area" from that fire that came thru here so I haven't been able to shoot much lately.

Going to the SB Range tomorrow.