Playing with OAL

[AkMtnRunner]

So I am thinking of sizing up to a S&W 396 (44 spl) from my 340 if that revolver could truly handle a step up in performance from the 357 snub. I subscribe to the TKO factor idea to compare handgun cartridges.

I know 44 mags but I am relatively in the dark about the 44 special. I understand the 396 has a cylinder length of 1.625" which is a bit longer than saami requirement. If I trimmed down 44 mag brass so my choice bullet just fit the cylinder, will that allow more of a slower powder to increase velocity without excessive peak pressure? Would it be a notable difference or not worth the effort? If not, I'd just carry buffalo bore loaded stuff and shoot the moderate stuff for practice and fun.

[Forrest r]

It's not worth the effort. Stick with what the revolver was designed for, namely 44spl cases.

2400 is your friend, power pistol is a close 2nd & unique would be my 3rd choice of powders. Your time would be better spent on bullet performance/selection. I've done a lot of testing with different 44spl loads/bullets over the decades. I've owned/carried ca bulldogs since the 80's. Some like heavier bullets in the 44spl's, with me it depends on the bbl length. The short bbl'd/snub nosed revolvers tend to struggle getting over 1000fps with bullets in the 240gr/240gr+ weight range. The heavier bullets also tend to shoot high, not good with fixed sights.


The 1000fps bar:
The trend for awhile now seems to be sd ammo should be in the 1000fps range for short bbl'd firearms/low pressure calibers & modern calibers like the 40s&w. Buffalo bore put out a 20A/1000fps 158gr hp for their 38spl p+ sd ammo (snub nosed revolver). They also put out a 1000fps 190gr hp for their 44spl p+ sd ammo (snub nosed revolver). Their 45acp p+ ammo uses the lighter bullets (180gr & 200gr)to get in the +/- 1000fps range in short bbl'd firearms. They also use a 180gr bullet in the 40s&w to get in the +/- 1000fps range with the short bbl'd (3.75") pistol.

As you can see there's a pattern there. Namely 1000fps minimum & 180gr to 200gr bullets in the 40/44/45 cal bullets along with short bbl's. Keep in mind that 3.75" semi-auto bbl has around 1" of chamber in it, the actual bbl is less than 3".

Some interesting reading on the 44spl.
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/

There's a bunch of different articles on the 44spl along with different bullets tested and the loads used. I really like the NRA loads for the 44spl link and the Brian Pearce on the 44spl link. Keep in mind that they changed over to the new/modern cases we use today from the older balloon headed cases in the 1950's (around 1955). The nra article in the link was put out because there were too many kabooms from reloaders using the old balloon headed case data in the modern cases (less case volume). The February 2018 #312 of the handloader magazine has another article on 44spl p+ loads. It's good reading but at the end of the day 2400 is still hard to beat in the 44spl, was in 1955 with the nra article in the link & still is today in the feb 2018 handloader magazine.

Is it worth making your own ammo for the 44ps? That's up to you, myself I'd rather make my own and load for not only bullet performance, poa and controllability. Wc & hbwc bullets have always done will in the 38spl/357's. The 44cal's are no different, I personally have molds that throw 162gr/175gr/200gr/220gr/245gr wc/hbwc's. The 200gr & 220gr do extremely well in the snubnosed 44spl's.

Buffalo bore came up with a 158gr 1000fps 158gr 38spl p+ load for the snubnosed 38spl revolvers. The bullet is a rimrock 158gr lead gas checked bullet (thompson design) Brian Pearce duplicated that load using the same rimrock bullet and 6.3gr of power pistol. The fbi used a 158gr hollow point hollow bases 158gr lead bullet for their fbi/treasury load.
https://i.imgur.com/KNwvR1D.jpg

I've showed this picture before, every 3 or 4 years I do new testing with p+ 44spl loads. These loads could be hotter, but they hit the poa and are in the +/- 1000fps range. Performance, sight picture, controllability.
https://i.imgur.com/fo57jjU.jpg

Top left:
Rimrock has a 158gr/1000fps 38spl p+ load, the fbi had a hb hp 158gr bullet. I Made a 210gr hb hp bullet and found a 1000+fps load for it.
Top right:
I've used that bullet/load for several years & used it as a baseline while testing other loads. Bullets were water dropped/hard.
Bottom left:
A h&g #142 200gr hp version of the Thompson bullet (rimrock uses a 158gr 35cal thompson/44cal's use a 200gr version).
Bottom right:
A fn (flat nosed) hb bullet that I hollow pointed. I had 2 different batches of those bullets laying around. 1 batch was soft to test expansion. The other was cast with lyman #2 alloy (15bhn/hard) to do some hv testing. I grabbed the wrong bullets for this test.

I test bullets in bundles of wetpack. Wetpack ='s bundles of newspaper taped together and put in a 32qt cooler. THe cooler is filled with water and left to sit overnight. The next day the whole thing is brought to the range and the bundles of wetpack are pulled out of the cooler and used as needed. They say wetpack is = to 1 1/2 gellitan or 6" of wetpack ='s 9" of gellitan. I don't know about all that, but the wetpack gives any bullet a workout. That hard 185gr bullet (bottom right) went thru 12" of wetpack. The 220gr hbwc (top right) is impressive with 8bhn/9bhn soft lead and truned around to make a huge hp. Typical recovered 220gr hbwc's.
https://i.imgur.com/x9A4Siv.jpg
The H7G #142 thompson bullet has always performed well, lyman makes a 429215 hp mold. I used to have/use the lyman until I got the h&g mold. The h&g is a 2-cavity mold and casts a swc and a hp.

My real interests with the last rounds of testing lay with that 210gr hb hp bullet (top left). The cupped hp did better than expected & what was surprising was the base of the recovered bullet. The body of the bullet stayed .430" and the hp and the hb expanded.
https://i.imgur.com/9Ht2FPC.jpg

If that was pure lead instead of a 10bhn alloy the whole bullet would of flattened and looked like a coin sinker. Planned on testing a pure lead this year. Hopefully the bullet won't loose penetration. Everything I test has to go thru at least 7 1/2" of wetpack or I wouldn't consider/use that bullet/load combo for anything other than plinking/blammo ammo, IE, can killers.

The 44spl is an awesome cartridge that most people overlook. S&W has been making different 44cal revolvers for awhile now. Ruger just started getting into the game with their short bbl'd gp100. I just happen to like the light weight 21oz bulldogs.

A little reading/studying goes a long way. Good luck with your fine choice in revolvers.

[str8wal]

If not, I'd just carry buffalo bore loaded stuff and shoot the moderate stuff for practice and fun.

Carry for bear, or people with bad intentions? A 240 grain slug doesn't have to be travelling at warp speed to be effective.

[AkMtnRunner]

Carry for bear, or people with bad intentions? A 240 grain slug doesn't have to be travelling at warp speed to be effective.

It would be as an ultralight option for when I am running in the mountains. I am looking at the 255 keith at about 1000 fps from buffalo bore.