Money Booolit at 500 Meters

[August]

Just had to brag. I shot the Paul Jones Money boolit for the first time at the Rams today. After sighters, went ten for ten from the bench with the Browning BPCR. Boolits were cast 20:1, sized .459, and looobed with SPG. In spite of the shallow grease grooves, the bullets carried lube well into the end of the barrel. I wiped after five shots, but it didn't really seem necessary at that point. Bullets were loaded over Rem pistol primers, newsprint over primer wad, 65 grains of Goex (lightly compressed <1/16 inch), Walter's .060 over powder, wax paper wad over veggie wad, and then the 540 grain Money Booolit on top. Bullet seated with two grease grooves exposed.

Now, here's the interesting part. The big boolit took six clicks less elevation than the 490 grain Mathew's bore rider at that distance.

Conclusion, that money bullet really cheats the air and wind and is a sure-fire winner!!!

90 degrees, 50% realitve humidity, wind quartering at between 5 and 10 miles per hour.

[Don McDowell]

Lots of folks really swear by that bullet, but most of them were shooting it in the longer cases, glad to hear its working in the 45-70.

[RMulhern]

This bullet shoots extremely well through my Shiloh .45/110 bull-barreled rifle using 112 grs. Goex 1F Express. I have two GG exposed and the bullet just touches and scribes the 3rd drive band. I shot this bullet at Alliance back in early May and it did quite well until the last target at 900 yards. It would have done OK there.....with the exception that the shooter thereof had his head up his 'hinney' about 5 days before the match during a practice session and as one 'ages'.....sometimes it's difficult to recall certain things that you've done....that aren't too conducive to good shooting!! Only after the match....did I discover what a goof that I had committed!! I believe this bullet will perform best considering the smaller lube grooves when one wipes after each shot; especially when the RH is down around 10-15%!!:castmine::drinks:

[montana_charlie]

Lots of folks really swear by that bullet, but most of them were shooting it in the longer cases, glad to hear its working in the 45-70.
When that bullet appeared on the scene, it was Doc Lay (if I remember) who was shooting it. I'm pretty sure he was using a 45/70.
As I understand it, the reduced bands allow the bullet to set out far enough to get a "45/90 charge" under it...so it can get enough velocity to meet it's ballistic goal.

The overall shape harkens clear back to Dan's 'grooveless bullet' trials...same nose profile. But that one turned your barrel into a lead storage container.
CM

[RMulhern]

Charlie

As I stated above...my .45/110 shoots this bullet very well. Did it cause leading to my bore? Nope! Only a stupid mistake I made one afternoon prior to leaving for the match at Alliance in early May caused a 'leading' problem...which I didn't catch! My mistake was.....firing about 30 rounds of .45/100 cartridges through my .45/110 and THAT caused a leading problem for me BIGTIME!! And I didn't realize that I had not checked the bore of the rifle thoroughly enough for leading...even after I had discovered my mistake while depriming the cases on the range that afternoon! Had I been using my 'noodle' as effectively as I know how to do.....that wouldn't have been an issue because I know how to remove lead from a bore. But....as one gets older.....sometimes the issue of having ones head up their backside prevents recognition of a bad issue! It's awfully dark up in there....and vision is highly limited under those conditions!!:wink::drinks:[smilie=1:

[John Boy]

August - Dan, Doc Lay and the 'world' have gotten this bullet to fly accurately but my last test using it at 1000yds was ... I couldn't make it happen using my Uberti HiWall!

1:20 Starline Br2 Meteor 3F Sifted 75gr 0.03 LDPE 3.333COAL 1181fps

And I can't blame my Meteor Powder because the same recipe using Postells put 7 in a row on the 1000yd target after 3 sighters

FYI: Meteor Powder (vintage 1973) was made by Noble at the Ardeer, Scotland plant and IMHO was the same batch process as Curtis & Harvey which was made there until 1971. Possibly could have been left over C&H powder

[RMulhern]

John Boy

When you say "on the target".......what kind of target? A buff target which is rather BIG....or....the NRA LR target where the aiming black is 44" diameter?? If NONE of 'em are able to hold the 9 ring.....stop....go to the house....and regroup cuz you ain't got the right recipe! And...I don't think you're gonna get to where you want to go....at 1181 fps! Not with that bullet! Maybe you MIGHT....if it's completely STILL with NO WIND but otherwise.....me thinks you'll be butting ya head against a wall!!:???::???:

[John Boy]

FPM -
When you say "on the target".......what kind of target? A buff target which is rather BIG....or....the NRA LR target where the aiming black is 44" diameter??
Homer at Ridgway PA Rifle Club ... 1000yds:
- OAL Width = 82"
- OAL Height = 48"
- Neck to Back = 64"
- Neck Width = 18"
- Head Height = 27"
- Shoulder to Neck Height = 32"
- Hump to Belly Height = 34"
- Haunch to Belly Height = 28"
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgeway%20Oct%202007/R1.jpg

The circle is 16"
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgeway%20Oct%202007/PDRM2901.jpg

Folks might be interested. Here's Keith Lay's recipe for the Money Bullet:

John Boy, in my 45-70 I'm using 70 gr of Swiss 1 1/2 which is around zero compression. I also have used 75 gr effectively but recently the 70 gr is shooting a tad better. Atop this I'm using a .060 ldpe. I have the bullet seated far enough out where it engages the rifling really well but is still easy enough to chamber the round using thumb pressure. I'm using only about .001 neck tension which allows the bullet to center itself somewhat in the chamber when loaded. With this little amount of neck tension one can actually change runout of the round by putting hard thumb pressure on the round. I use Federal 150m large pistol primers and use a primer wad with thick (.oo9) watercolor paper. Exhaustive testing last year proved to me the paper wad thing works.

[montana_charlie]

I'm thinking that the (serious) guys who use the Money Bullet at 1000 are getting 1300 fps.
Judging from what they say, it takes that kind of speed to realize the full BC potential from the bullet shape. The two reduced bands on the front are there to allow the bullet to be set out far enough to pack enough powder underneath to get that kind of speed.

At least, that's how I understand it...

If you don't have the bullet operating in the velocity range it's designed for...maybe it loses some stability when it gets a long way out.

CM

[August]

We chronographed the load of 65 grains (ctg. grade) Goex at 1240 f.p.s.

Could have gotten more powder in there in a number of ways: using Swiss, Compressing, going to 3F, etc.

So, I believe 1300 (the holy grail) is possible with the 45-2.1 case.

Oh, btw, that 540 boolit kicks a lot more than the Mathew's 490 grain boolits I've been shootin'.

[John Boy]

This bullet shoots extremely well through my Shiloh .45/110 bull-barreled rifle using 112 grs. Goex 1F Express. I have two GG exposed and the bullet just touches and scribes the 3rd drive band.
FPM, you might want to let Dan Theodore and Keith Lay know that the MB will fly in the 110.

Here's some more snippets of the conversation that I had with Doc Lay:

This bullet however will NOT shoot in my 45-90. I had about given up on getting a good load out of my 90 until this past March when I tried a different Money bullet with a slightly larger boreride section of .452. It has shot like a house afire since then. In the 45-90 I'm using the same primer setup, starline cases, 75 gr of Swiss 3F, .030 high molecular weight poly wads and using the same formula of light neck tension and seating the bullet as far out as possible and still be able to thumb it in ... and > As I alluded to before, if I try to shoot the standard Money bullet in my 45-90 the group looks like a buckshot pattern on the target and the same thing occurs when I try the larger boreride bullet in the 45-70.... and > but in the 45-90 only a small part of one gg is showing but both setups shoot world-class accurate. With such light neck tension I like to use at least just enough powder to keep the bullet from moving backwards when it engages the rifling. It takes a bit of playing around with it sometimes to get it right.

The ones I have are 449 bore riding from SageBrush. Will see if they will make the trip using Doc's 45-70 recipe ... this time!

[Don McDowell]

August if that load is shooting as well for you as you state it is, I don't think I'ld piddle with it. Sometimes when things comes together like that, its best not to reason why, but just to do.