32-20 WinchesterWhat can you tell me?

[robertbank]

Need you guys help. I have a friend here in Terrace who has his dads 32-20 SAA Colt and his dads 32-20 rifle. The local gun theif wants over $90cdn/box of 50 so he is asked if I would load/cast for him if he bought the dies, mould, etc. Is there anything special about this caliber I should know about. I will be using the 311008 Lyman mould using WW alloy and soft lube. He won't be asking me to chase anything more than mid range loads. He might use the rifle for small deer at some point but the revolver will be plinking at the range only.

Load experience and info on cartridge characteristics are what I am looking for. I will check out the Colt before anything happens to ensure it didn't chase Sitting Biull into Alberta back in the day.

Take Care

Bob

[gpidaho]

Bob: Love my Colt 32-20 revolver. It's 100 yrs. old and tight as new. R. Dupraz over at the CBA and member here at Boolits was kind enough to sell me the handgun about six months ago. 32-20 is very easy to load for and Unique @ 4.5 gr. or so (maybe a tenth or two more) works great in my Colt. This is with the Lee 311-93-R or the Tl-90-SWC. Ive also had good luck with light charges of TiteGroup with bullets up to 115 gr. 32-20 is a joy, both for loading and shooting. Gp PS My bullets are powder coated and sized .313

[Dan Cash]

I use an Accurate 105 gr bullet sized .312-.313 over 9.4 grain of 2400. Rifle or Pistol primer does not seem to matter. This load is good in a Colt Army special (1914), Uberty 1873 SA clone and a Marlin 94. I have loaded heavier but seemed a bit much for the Colt and brass life shortened. This load gives me 1300+ from the revolvers and 1650 +/- from the rifle. The load is accurate enough to win levere action matches with targets out to 250 yards and has done in a couple of coyotes and numerous porcupines.

[Outpost75]

My S&W 1905 Hand Ejector is an earlier model which is not heat treated, so I keep the loads mild and use the same ones in my 1920 Colt Police Positive.

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Accurate 31-105T next to vintage .32-20 factory lead bullets is interesting.

I use Accurate 31-105T cast of wheelweights and sized .314" with 3.4 grains of Bullseye for 800 fps in a 5" revolver or 1153 fps in Winchester 1873, which approximates post-WW2 factory lead loads. Also good is 10 grains of IMR4227 for 985 fps revolver or 1280 fps in the rifle. I didn't get uniform velocities with Alliant #2400 at the lower levels suitable for my guns, so I don't use it.

I would not hot-rod the Army Special, it is not heat treated. Treat it like a pre-1918 S&W M1905 or Colt Police Positive. My loads above would be OK.

[Drm50]

I've got S&Ws, Marlin and Win all turn of century. I shoot RCBS 115 FP/ 5.0 g Uniqe and have for
years. Not interested in hot rodding them. The old rifles won't shoot factory jackets worth a hoot.
Cast is squirrel head at 40yds.

[robertbank]

Love this forum. I will post back here after I fet all the fixings. He is bringing over his Colt next week and we will have a sit down and see what he wants to do. Slounds like I am in for some fun with a new cartridge. Keep the coming you can't get enough info.

Take Care

Bob

[Idaho Mule]

You have opened Pandora's box. JW

[David LaPell]

I have owned a few .32-20's over the years. My first was a Marlin 1894CL, then an original Marlin 1889, then I picked up a Smith & Wesson M & P .32-20, and my latest is a Winchester 1885 Low Wall. It's got to be one of the most fun rounds I have ever shot, hope to take it the 1885 out this weekend if I can. I will have to look up my revolver loads that I used, haven't had the gun in a few years, my current load I am trying is something fairly light, a 115 grain Lyman cast bullet with 6.6 grains of 2400, which is on the low end according to the Lyman cast bullet manual, but my Winchester is pretty old and I don't want to push it. I figure if I can't kill a coyote or fox out to 75 yards with that bullet at 1,000 fps I should quit trying.

[9.3X62AL]

You have opened Pandora's box. JW

Most definitely.

I am another loader that doesn't warm things up a lot with 32/20 WCF revolvers (2 Colts and a S&W). I have a Marlin 94 that gets any load that might edge over 115 grains @ 900 FPS from a short gun or 1300 FPS in a long barrel.

With the demise of SR-4756 powder, I have turned to Herco as a replacement. 5.5 grains same gives about 875 FPS to a 115 grain revolver-specific Mountain Molds design I had Dan cut for me some years back; its form resembles a shortened Lyman #311440. It won't run in the levergun; I use Lyman #311316 most of the time in the rifle.

Check for PM.

[Outpost75]

The RCBS Cowboy die set works well for me with Starline brass and the lead bullets. You can improvise with a .30M1 Carbine die set and .32-20 shell holder, but the case will then be tapered instead of bottlenecked. The .312" diameter Hornady 100-grain XTP works well with 10 grains of IMR- or H-4227 in either rifle or revolver. 13 grains of 4198 works well too in the 1873 Winchester, but jacketed bullets are hard on the old soft iron barrels and while safe, leaves alot of unburned powder in the revolvers.

[rintinglen]

Plan on lubing the cases before sizing and definitely seat then crimp in two separate steps to save ruining brass. A LEE FCD is your friend with this cartridge. I have four, a post 1918 S&W M&P, a 1924 Colt Army Special, a 1933 Police Positive and a Modern Browning 1953 Carbine. The Army Special and the Browning get the RCBS 32-98 SWC over 5 grains of Unique, the other two get 3.3 grains of Bullseye and a 32-98 Wadcutter. They are fun.
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[rking22]

Well you will have the dies, may as well find a gun of your own ....thats how it starts.
For my M25 Remington , I generally load a 31108 on 4.5 Unique. Thats from memory and M25s are reasonably strong. Thats a book load but long forgot from which one. It shoots very well in my rifles, haven't found a K frame to try it in, yet :)

[quail4jake]

Go fat, soft and moderate! I cast SAECO 322 115 gr FP, size to .314 and use SPG lube cast with 97-1-2 alloy at BHN 10 using Titegroup at around 1050 fps carbine and 850 revolver. I've never gone wrong with that load out to about 80 yds. You can up the game with unique or universal to about 1280 fps (original smokeless load of 1895) but you'll need BHN 14 or so. I recommend pound slugging the throat and base sizing on that.

[murf205]

212775Here is my Hand Ejector 32/20 that followed me home from a gun show. It is a joy to shoot and anybody that shoots it is surprised by the light recoil and accuracy of 5 grs of Unique and 100 gr Magnus boolits.

[Green Frog]

Have any of you used the heavier NOE 314008 PB bullet in your 32-20. Mine drop out at 125 grains w/ COWW + a touch of tin and they work well in my 327 FM, but I haven’t tried them in 32-20 revolvers yet.

Froggie :coffee:

[9.3X62AL]

NOE's catalog offers more variety than Lyman does, for sure--and mould cavities cut to useful diameters (like .314"-.315"). A .311" cavity is USELESS for smokeless powder/32-20 loadings.

The #314008 would work well in any 32 caliber revolver, since the cartridge's roll crimp can be placed around the front drive band edge or ogive and retain the bullet against revolver recoil and its tendency to "pull" bullets out of unsecure seating/crimping.

There could be problems in a lever gun, though--the cartridges shunt down the mag tube, and if not secured well the bullets will "telescope" back inside the case. A light roll crimp into a crimp groove assures a secured bullet for the trip down a mag tube. IME #311008/#314008 crimped into its front lube groove creates a cartridge OAL too long to be managed by most leverguns--somewhere between 1.590" and 1.610" OALs, most leverguns will choke and the stoppage is a monumental PITA unless your rifle is a takedown variant.

IME the Lyman #311316 is a far superior design for use in the 32/20 WCF arms. It features a crimp groove that locates the bullet at proper OAL for all arms that chamber this caliber*** and is of a good weight to print downrange where the sights look on fixed-sight revolvers. Lyman's now-out-of-print #311316 has one disadvantage--that gas check, which is superfluous for 90% of 32/20 loading tasks. Kudoes to NOE (and Accurate Molds) for 1) bringing back this GREAT mould design and 2) offering it in real-world diameters AND with a plain-base option.

***-A fly in the ointment with a few 32/20 leverguns......these arms feature short, abrupt throating that can interfere with chambering of the #311316 seated & crimped per its design parameters. One solution to this quirk is to trim your brass back slightly from the "spec" 1.302" to a length that allows a crimped bullet to just "kiss" the rifling and fully chamber. My 2004-made Marlin 94 CCL likes its brass trimmed to 1.290" with #311316. Starline brass arrives in the bag at 1.285", and my RCBS seating die is still able to place a crimp on these cases. YMMV.

[quail4jake]

Great advice 9.3x62! I changed my trim length on .32-20s to 1.280" and have never been sorry. I wonder if the Starline factory length of 1.285" would ever grow to the 1.312" max spec? Mine don't grow at all but I don't load .32-20 super +P magnum...

[9.3X62AL]

Even loaded to milder revolver pressures, W-W and R-P brass stretches A LOT--and unevenly. It is no help that gunmakers & diemakers have very poetic concepts of just where the shoulder on the 32/20 casing should be placed. I trim W-W and R-P cases every other firing--Starline cases expand far more slowly and evenly, to include high-velocity loadings in the Marlin. Every 3-4 loadings with the SL hulls.

[quail4jake]

Yeah, how about those WW cases? the ones I bought had a defined shoulder way too low, ironed out after fire forming and stretched very unevenly. I trimmed and use em for squirrel shooting since I lose those cases regularly. In the meanwhile, the Starlines are spot on and very little (not none) growth. Really like Starline brass!

[osteodoc08]

Star line brass if you can get it. My marlin seems to like the heavier bullets with a fast pistol powder. Never shot it in a pistol. It's a very mild shooting cartridge and my boys aged 8 and 11 enjoy it very much. It is a "real" cartridge (as opposed to a 22lr) for my boys and they can reload it with dad. Accurate out to reasonable distances for plinking and an all round fun cartridge. I need to scope my Marlin and get some squirrels and rabbits maybe

[Outpost75]

Typical open-sight, 100-yard group with my Savage boltgun with the 31-105T Accurate bullet and 3.4 grains of Bullseye powder, which approximates factory velocity, 1173 fps, suitable for old revolvers or Winchester 1873.

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[Thin Man]

robertbank, when you get the details or actually see the rifle, I would love to hear about it as well - make, model, features, and so on. I have always found it interesting the selections that owners have made when they settle on one caliber, then find to tool to get the job done. Thanks.

[lotech]

I've shot .32-20s for years using only cast bullets and only Winchester or Remington brass. Don't mix brass; Remington and Winchester are different lengths; not a lot of difference, but enough to screw things up if you crimp.

[Outpost75]

I trim all of my .32-20 brass to the 1.280-1.285" length of Starline brass so that I can also use it in my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk.

[Green Frog]

Back to my question about the NOE bullet... is the heavier weight going to give me pressure problems and how much should I back off on powder charge to prevent those problems? I haven’t compared nose length between the Ideal original and NOE designs... will OAL be a possible problem? I think I can find my original Ideal mound and even the old Winchester 115 Graf mound to use if I have to, but that NOE mound just drops such pretty bullets! :mrgreen:

Froggie

[Outpost75]

With Bullseye I reduce charge 0.2 grain with 115-grain bullet vs. 100-105-grain.

[iomskp]

I used to shoot cowboy matches and used a Rossi 92 copy in 357, I could not afford the brass I lost so many of them every shoot, I purchased a Winchester 92 rifle with full length mag in 32/20 a great rifle I still have it and I think I lost only one case in 3 years in the cowboy matches. Sometimes it's a good idea to shoot a uncommon caliber

[curioushooter]

I load it for a Contender, which is strong, even stronger than the Colt. Paco Kelly at leverguns has a good write up with some load data.

I had no problem obtaining Starline 32-20, Lee dies and a mold, and suitable bullets off Midway.

I'd reckon you wouldn't have any trouble either.

[silhouette_shooter]

I use a Magma 115 gr, gas checked, semi-wadcutter sized to .312, and lubed with LBT medium over 3.2 grs of Titegroup out of a Freedom Arms with a 7.5 inch barrel. If I try hard enough, I can get them outside of a six inch bullseye at 25 yards. When I shoot this batch up, I'll switch to Felix lube.