Unusal Malfunction

[Petrol & Powder]

I was shooting a 9mm pistol the other day and had a failure to fire. The primer didn't fire and I immediately went into a malfunction drill. The next round would not chamber and I stopped to see what the problem was. The bullet (a factory 115gr FMJ) was stuck in the throat but not engraved with the rifling. A very slight tap knocked it out of the barrel. I lost the casing in the high grass while clearing the pistol but there was NO unburned powder present in the pistol.

The only explanation I can come up with is a casing with NO powder and either a dead primer or no primer. (I never found the casing) It wasn't a squib load because nothing fired and the bullet didn't travel down the barrel past the throat.

There's a strong probability that it was an old factory loaded cartridge but I can't be certain. I had dumped some Winchester white box rounds on top of a large box of my reloads. The failure occurred on the second magazine loaded from that box.
If it was one of my rounds that I had loaded - it was a triple failure of: bad or no primer, no powder and poor crimp. Not saying that's impossible but I've had very few bad rounds over my lifetime of reloading.

I'm still not certain what happened.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think no powder is the most likely explanation. You could try chambering and knocking out a few more rounds with the extractor removed, to see if your have bullets seated far enough out to lodge in that pistol's throat. But I think you would have noticed that before, if hey lodged tight enough to pull out the bullet.

Another possibility is that there was a cracked case neck, much reducing the bullet pull. But I think the most likely thing is that the explosion of the primer drove the bullet into the throat. Long ago I experimented with .005in. copper sheet in the cylinder gap of a revolver, closing off the chamber. I found that a small pistol primer was enough to form the copper into a partly ruptured dome. I think good primer and good crimp might produce what you describe.

[Omega]

Something got the bullet out of the case, weak primer maybe? Unless something shoved the bullet out of the case into the throat it would of ejected with the case.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with Omega, something went off, or the bullet would have stayed in the case.

No powder is a possible, as is a weak primer.

But with no powder, dead primer there is no force to move the bullet out of the case lightly wedging it in the forcing cone.

[Bulldogger]

Sounds like a classic squib load. The primer fired and thanks to the bullet crimp got just enough pressure buildup to pop the round out of the mouth of the case.

I have seen this exact situation before, especially with economy brand cartridges.

The good news for my few instances is that the bullet didn't get far enough into the barrel to allow a second round to seat behind it, which could have been much less pleasant than shallow seating.

Grab something long a thin and drive the bullet back through the chamber, reassemble and check all fitments and resume firing, being more careful for odd sounding shots. For my crop of 9mm pistols, the "long and thin" happens to be the spring rod under the barrel, usually just long enough to push the round back out.

Bulldogger

[Petrol & Powder]

If the primer fired, it didn't make a sound. And the bullet wasn't driven into the rifling, it was right in front of the chamber. If the primer had fired I think I would have heard it and the bullet would have made it a little farther down the bore before it stopped.

I recovered the bullet from the barrel. It was just about pristine.


After I cleared the barrel the gun functioned fine.

I'm not claiming that it wasn't one of my reloads but I've had very few failures over a lot of years and tens of thousands of rounds.
If it was a failure of my reload (and it could have been) it was a strange confluence of events.

[Petrol & Powder]

I wonder if when the casing mouth struck the shoulder at the front of the chamber, the inertia pulled the bullet forward? If that happened there was still no primer or powder and the crimp was insufficient to hold the bullet in the empty casing. ???????

I really don't know. Wish I could have found the casing.

[lefty o]

your primer fired, it had no powder and it pushed the bullet forward.

[daloper]

I had that in my revolver. I had a load that did not fire and I could not open the cylinder to check the round. I had to tap the bullet back down with a dowel so that I could open the cylinder. I ordered a lock out die to make sure it dropped powder. This was one of my reloads with a new to me progressive press.

[Petrol & Powder]

your primer fired, it had no powder and it pushed the bullet forward.

If it did, it didn't push it very far.

[CJR]

Petrol,

Do you gauge all your ammo before using? Dillon sells inexpensive ammo gauges which will detect cracked necks, insufficient crimps that don't remove all the case mouth belling/flare, oversized CB, bad OAL, etc.

Are you sure your chamber is perfectly round? Typically, pistol barrels are heat-treated after machining and initially will have residual stress with perfectly round chambers. Residual stress is a fact- of- life with heat-treating. However, I've found that after repeated firing, particularly in hot weather, the slight increased temperature (200 degree+) generated in the barrel is enough to stress-relieve the chamber ever so slightly so that the chamber becomes slightly oval. When that happens, a perfectly round cartridge gets slowed down as it enters a dirty chamber and may not seat all the way. What I did was purchase a quality Masen chamber reamer for 1911 barrels. EVERY 1911 barrel that I put that reamer into was ever so slightly oval. Black magic marking inside the chamber, before inserting the reamer, showed an oval chamber, i.e. blacking removed say at 11 o'clock and 4 o'clock. I found that after repeated checking, the reamed chambers tend to stay round and improve the reliable feeding of ammo. Bottom-line? Perfectly round ammo needs to go into perfectly round chambers for reliable functioning, particularly as the chamber gets dirty. That's been my experience. To be sure, have a local 'smith run a reamer down your pistol barrel to check it out. That doesn't cost much,

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

CJR

[Petrol & Powder]

I do not gauge my loaded rounds but have never had a issue.

I suppose it's possible I had a round with no powder, or I believe, a factory round with no powder but it seems odd to me that a functioning primer alone would have pushed the bullet such a short distance.

Most of the squib loads I've encountered (usually other people's reloads :-o) the primer alone will drive the bullet at least into the rifling before it lodges.
I carry a squib rod in my range bag but I can't honestly recall the last time I had to use it for one of my own reloads. That doesn't mean I didn't make a mistake. Even though my reloads have been extremely reliable over the years, that's no guarantee I didn't let a bad round slip by.

[country gent]

I got 2 rounds in Remington factory 45 acp ammo that had no flash hole. This was a few years ago. But these just went click and the bullet didn't move. The primer did push back a little and a soot ring around them. hen I pulled the bullets there was powder but no sighn of heat on it. When I was feeling around with a depriming pin and couldn't fint the flash hole I looked and there wasn't one. With factory ammo almost anything is possible.
A club member was experiencing occasional squibs and it was traced back to his sweat dripping into the occasional primed and charged case when he inspected them.
A primer in a pistol case has enough oomph to lodge the bullet into the throat or bore. Leaving an obstruction. It normally ties up revolvers or is back in smi autos where the next round wont chamber, but not always.
ANy time something dosnt feel sound right stop clear and check the firearm.
Part of the reasoning behind the snubby barreled handguns back in the day ( Fritz built) was that a bad round low powder or bad ignition would still push the bullet out the short barrel.

[Omega]

Anything is possible but the most obvious wold be a no powder primer pop. If there was no primer, you should have seen it as you loaded the revolver. Stuff happens, weigh the remainder of your box and see if there are any that weigh much less, if there are any anomalies pull them to confirm. You may even find out if it was factory or reload, if reload chase the issue down.

[Soundguy]

I'm with Omega, something went off, or the bullet would have stayed in the case.

No powder is a possible, as is a weak primer.

But with no powder, dead primer there is no force to move the bullet out of the case lightly wedging it in the forcing cone.

wonder if it was an issue of no crimp, and inertia of loading the case into the chamber and then the case stopped and the projectile continued forward?

[Petrol & Powder]

wonder if it was an issue of no crimp, and inertia of loading the case into the chamber and then the case stopped and the projectile continued forward?
That was my thought.

[Petrol & Powder]

Anything is possible but the most obvious wold be a no powder primer pop. If there was no primer, you should have seen it as you loaded the revolver. Stuff happens, weigh the remainder of your box and see if there are any that weigh much less, if there are any anomalies pull them to confirm. You may even find out if it was factory or reload, if reload chase the issue down.

It was a pistol, not a revolver. I think I would have caught the lack of a primer but I couldn't find the casing after I cleared the pistol to confirm.

[Omega]

It was a pistol, not a revolver. I think I would have caught the lack of a primer but I couldn't find the casing after I cleared the pistol to confirm.I just caught that..but still should have been noticeable when handling. But like I said, anything is possible, so I would be checking my remaining rounds just in case. This time it didn't enter the barrel, the next could.

[Wayne Smith]

I have a SIG 239 .40. I once fired a powderless round - it stuck the bullet in the forcing cone of the barrel, ran the slide, ejected the case, and attempted to load the next round but the bullet in the barrel prevented the slide from closing. This jammed the gun and prevented me from firing a second round.

[Plate plinker]

Squib.

[knifemaker]

If you were wearing ear muffs or ear plugs while shooting, you may not have heard the primer go off.

[Petrol & Powder]

Yea, thought about that. I was shooting alone and heard the hammer fall.

[9.3X62AL]

I have seen about a half-dozen "no powder/primer ignited" conditions in autopistols at work during range quals. In all cases, the bullets were driven into the throat HARD and needed the range rod and a bit of oil to drive the jacketed bullets out. 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP.

Think of the odds here, P&P........a cartridge containing no powder and a weak primer SIMULTANEOUSLY. Outside my experience entirely.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have seen about a half-dozen "no powder/primer ignited" conditions in autopistols at work during range quals. In all cases, the bullets were driven into the throat HARD and needed the range rod and a bit of oil to drive the jacketed bullets out. 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP.

Think of the odds here, P&P........a cartridge containing no powder and a weak primer SIMULTANEOUSLY. Outside my experience entirely.

Kind of where my thinking is.

I too have seen a functioning primer but no powder in semi-auto pistols. The bullet always ended up in the barrel past the chamber.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible for the primer alone to move the bullet just outside the casing but my experience has been the primer will push a jacketed bullet at least into the rifling beyond the throat.

In the situation at hand, the bullet ended up just outside the casing and wasn't even engraved with the rifling.

[GhostHawk]

Soundguy that may be possible. I've personally never seen it, or heard of it.

But yes in the realm of "it ain't likely, but it could happen" that one I would have to say does exist.

I think at this point without the brass we likely won't know for sure.

It is a caution for all of us though.

[Wayne Smith]

On my one example I have no idea how far the primer put the bullet into the forcing cone and how much the slide trying to chamber the next round did. It was stuck tight, though. Had to take it home to my brass rod. Ever since I've had a brass rod in my shooting case. Never had to use it!

[charlie b]

I've had something similar happen when I was firing a mixed batch of old rounds. Short explanation first.

When setting up loads for a new bullet I use a bare case and the bullet. I seat it on the long side and chamber it to see how long it needs to be. I then end up with a dummy round that I keep for measuring OAL when using those bullets. They rarely have a crimp.

Well, I had one of those 'sneak' into a batch of rounds and did not notice the lack of primer when I loaded the magazine. The bullet stayed in the throat and the next round jammed it tight in the rifling. I found the case so knew what happened when I saw it.