Best barrel length and twist for 35 whelen

[adcoch1]

Hello all! I'm decided on converting my Savage 110 to a 35 whelen from the 30-06 it presently is. That said, I have been lurking around on forums, and shopping around for a barrel from the usual suspects, er shaw, shilen, green mountain, etc. My question is about twist and length. I intend to use 158 grn pistol bullets for goofing around with and at least 225 grn cast or jacketed for big game hunting. I have my eyes on 20-24" barrels, would I be losing to go shorter? I also am seeing a lot of 1 in 14" twist barrels out there and these look like they should stabilize up to 250 grn ok, but 1 in 12" might be better. Will the 1 in 12" twist destroy a pistol bullet at some decent velocity?

So, there are my questions and musings, look forward to your wisdom...

[Outpost75]

Standard .35 Whelen throat is a bit long for best accuracy with pistol bullets. If you want to shoot 158-grain pistol bullets then you want a short throat like a .35 Remington with 16" twist. Standard .35 Whelen throat is best with 200-250-grain bullets. A 14" twist will stabilize up to 300-grain cast if supersonic. Use a 12" twist to shoot 300-grain cast subsonic.

[Chill Wills]

For what it is worth, the Remington 700 Classic produced in the 1990's or so, had a 1-16 twist. I still have mine. It shoots jacked bullets well up to 250 Speer and I had LBT make a 275gr bullet that could be driven to full power and shot wonderfully. The cast 275 was my elk hunting load. It was a hammer as were the jacketed loads.
If cast bullets are on the list to be used, the faster twists may not be your friend. Your choice, with 1-16 being more than enough.

[Kestrel4k]

Not an exact answer to your query, but here was my experience:

Remington 660, .350RM (same case capacity as the .35Whelen).

Twist rate 1:16"

----------

158gr Winchester JHP, 2500 fps, 0.8" avg (3-shot groups) @ 50 yds
(about the best that could be expected from those bullets, in other experience with them)

158gr Winchester JHP, subsonic; 0.7" avg @ 50 yds

158gr Hornady XTP, subsonic; mediocre accuracy

180gr Hornady XTP, subsonic; excellent accuracy, delivering /many/ 0.35" - 0.4" 3-shot groups at 50 yds.

Hope this helps,

[Outpost75]

adcoch1 note that the .350 Remington Mag. Rem. 660 that Kestrel4K mentions above does have a SHORT throat like the .35 Remington and slow twist well suited for the light pistol bullets and shows type of accuracy what can be expected.

With a typical longer .35 Whelen throat the bases of 158-grain pistol bullets clear the case mouth before their forepart begins to engage the rifling. This is not a favorable condition if you expect good accuracy with the short pistol bullets.

[adcoch1]

Yeah I've been looking into the throat length issue, the pistol bullet is more of a hope I can make it work. I don't want to compromise the big bullet usability to accommodate the pistol bullets, so they are definitely a secondary use. I guess I'll try them out once I have a barrel.

[RPRNY]

24" and 1:14, unless you plan to shoot predominantly cast, then 1:16.

158 grs AND 225 grs aren't going to both shoot equally well from the same barrel. With the Whelen, I would definitely bias towards 225 -250 grs.

[adcoch1]

24" and 1:14, unless you plan to shoot predominantly cast, then 1:16.

158 grs AND 225 grs aren't going to both shoot equally well from the same barrel. With the Whelen, I would definitely bias towards 225 -250 grs.

Thanks for the comments, I may just skip the pistol bullets... Still want to run 225-250s for elk and bear.

[RPRNY]

Thanks for the comments, I may just skip the pistol bullets... Still want to run 225-250s for elk and bear.

Great choice. I have a 35 Krag which is fantastic, but it's 35 Whelen light. The full Monte is a serious cartridge.

[umwminer]

I had a 35 Whelen Improved built on a FN commercial action in the early 80’s.
Bbl is 24 “ ROT is 1 in 14 .
Shoots 250gr Speer spritzers @ 2622 FPS with 50.0gr IMR4064 and puts 5 of them into a inch @ 100yds.
Barnes Original 300gr do 2453fps with 61:5gr IMR 4350 and will put 5rds into 1and 3/8 @100.
My idea for having it built was to launch heavier bullets at larger critters . it has been my most favorite elk rifle since the day it was made .
If I could only ever have but one rifle this is the one .
Other than fireforming cases for it (the much recommended Improved
version needs fireformed to blow the taper out of the case and move the shoulder forward) I have never fired anything lighter than 250gr .
I have a 375 H&H and out to 300yds , I believe that my Whelen is its equal .
Edit , that load for the Speer 250 gr should read 59.0gr of 4064

[Larry Gibson]

The 16" twist in a 26" (24" minimum) length barrel will give you all you ask for and then some.

[kaiser]

I have a 7600 Rem with a 1:16 twist and a Mark X with a 1:14 twist. I have not shot many reduced loads with 158gr (.357 diameter) bullets, but cannot tell much difference in accuracy of either rifle with 180 to 250gr bullets. I have noticed that the 7600 has a pretty good "jump" to the rifling compared to the Mark X and is usually 50 to 100fps slower with most loads. The Mark X has a 23.6" (custom BBL), where as the 7600's is 22"; this barrel length and difference in chamber probably has the biggest effect with this range of bullets. Considering that a .358 Norma Magnum is normally built with a 1:12 twist, I don't believe this twist is really useful until 300+ grain bullets are utilized; and then, only when driven at the "right speed". BTW, most .358 Norma users report (from what I've read) poor accuracy with 180gr bullets above 2900fps because of their fast twist, which a "standard" Whelen can match in most rifles available in 1:16 or 1:14.

[Kestrel4k]

Thanks for the comments, I may just skip the pistol bullets... Still want to run 225-250s for elk and bear.
BTW, there are very very few resources posted online with regards to /reduced loads/ with the 0.358" jacketed pistol bullets in the .35Whelen; this thread is one of the few available:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/9890256/

[adcoch1]

Thank you kestrel4k

[Texas by God]

Let JES rebore the 30-06 barrel to 35 Whelen for $250 and be done and happy with it. My .02.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[adcoch1]

Let JES rebore the 30-06 barrel to 35 Whelen for $250 and be done and happy with it. My .02.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I would do just that, but the 20" carbine barrel on that rifle is what I'm trying to get away from. I cand get 5/8" threads on the end of it, let alone a shoulder, because its so thin. I kinda want some more barrel to work with, both length and diameter, so I can thread the barrel for a suppressor if I get that far. We'll see...

[Texas by God]

I get it.

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[Chill Wills]

I would do just that, but the 20" carbine barrel on that rifle is what I'm trying to get away from. I cand get 5/8" threads on the end of it, let alone a shoulder, because its so thin. I kinda want some more barrel to work with, both length and diameter, so I can thread the barrel for a suppressor if I get that far. We'll see...

I think you are on the right track. There is just something right about having a 35 Whelen as a choice when hunting. It does a lot of things right. Mine is one of last of my rifles I would part with.

[Kestrel4k]

I would do just that, but the 20" carbine barrel on that rifle is what I'm trying to get away from. I cand get 5/8" threads on the end of it, let alone a shoulder, because its so thin. I kinda want some more barrel to work with, both length and diameter, so I can thread the barrel for a suppressor if I get that far. We'll see...
My experience with getting my .350RM cut & threaded for a .358 caliber suppressor;

The bbl OD at 16.5" measured 0.64"; IMO this may have been marginal or even insufficient for the typical larger-bore 5/8"x24 threads & the related shoulder for obtaining a positive reference - which is along the lines of your thinking above.

I had Liberty Suppressors produce my particular Hoosier .358 suppressor with 1/2"x28 threads for this specific reason; the resulting configuration has been very satisfactory for me.

Also, am wondering if you've looked into .358 suppressors? Last I checked, the only reasonable choice was the Hoosier - which has been subsequently discontinued by Liberty. So you might want to check around first, as options may be extremely limited.

Best regards,

[adcoch1]

I have a lathe and I'm pretty good at metalwork, so if i go for a suppressor, it'll be a form 4 homebuilt. I do want a barrel with enough meat at the muzzle for the 5/8" threads though, 1/2" threads are just too close to bore diameter for my personal comfort level. I know it works, but I prefer a bigger safety margin.

[Kestrel4k]

No worries; that makes sense.

FWIW, for my Ruger 77/44 & its 5/8"x24 threading; the bbl OD at 16.5" was also an insufficient 0.635".

The solution for that situation was to do the bbl threading extra-long at the muzzle; thread on a thread protector all the way down to create a good shoulder (which got faced as well), then turning off the knurling so as to not look /exceedingly/ ugly. Not the most attractive solution by any stretch, but was certainly satisfactory for getting around what would have been a marginal/problematic situation.

[adcoch1]

Yeah the little sleeve with a shoulder on it works great! I may do that on the 30-06 barrel if I decide to develop a subsonic load for it, but most subsonic ammo I shoot nowadays is 300 blk or 44 special.

[murf205]

22" barrel with 1-14 twist is what my 350 RM was and it never had a problem with cast and shot jacketed ok. But now it is a 358 Norma and loves 200 gr cast w/gas check at 2100 fps as well as 250 gr Nosler Partitions at 2750(ouch). I never had any leading with this barrel and it is a Douglas. As far as pistol bullets go--it sprays them into 4 " on a good day. Hope you have better luck if you decide to try them.

[adcoch1]

So, I have a barrel on the way ( thanks Kmac) and some gauges, and a barrel wrench, so this project is moving forward! Got a 24" 1 in 14" twist barrel, so i'll try some pistol bullets to see, but probably just gonna throw some heavies around. Get to inlet my stock too for the heavier profile barrel, so fun times ahead!