10mm or 45 Super for hunting and a hiking, backpacking gun

[huntersdog]

The the most I would run into in the woods that I would be hunting or need protection against would be mountain lion, moose, deer and black bear. I would be buying ammo and possibility of reloading for both calibers.


Of the two would you choose a 45 super or a 10 mm hand would you choose a 45 super or a 10 mm handgun for hiking, backpacking and hunting? I have read some guys are getting 460 Rowland performance out of there 45 supers. But how reliable is the gun at feeding him a hundred percent.

Are most 45acp guns pretty easy at converting and getting them to run reliable with 45 super ammo?

I've seen a couple videos on YouTube where the 45 super would go through 12 water jugs and keep on going where the 10mm would only go through about 5 milk jugs and stop. Again this is water jugs and not bone or wildgame.

Thank you very much for your input in advance!

[tazman]

I looked at the Hodgdon data site at the velocity data for both cartridges and came away with no clear choice.
With either cartridge and a 200 grain boolit, the velocities are a tossup. I would expect the 10mm to have slightly better penetration than the 45 Super given the same style of boolit.
If you go with a 230 grain boolit in the 45 Super, you might be able to edge out the 10mm. A lot would depend on the individual gun and load.

[jmort]

Both will work well. Pick'em

[Hickory]

Both will work well. Pick'em

My thoughts exactly!

[osteodoc08]

10mm. More rounds on average and definitely capable for most needs.

[RobS]

45 Super vs 10mm

Pretty close however my vote goes to 10mm for penetration if one is looking at something that wants to claw or put teeth into a person.

[bluelund79]

If you’re wanting off the shelf ammo, I’d vote 10mm. To me, it was also require the least amount of tinkering for proper spring weights too.

[Ramjet-SS]

Model G40 Glock with a 7" KKM barrel loaded with a 200 grain GC WFN will outpace the 45 Super. I just checked outa 180 grain XTP from this setup getting 1550 FPS !!!!

It is very packable with DD chest holster (keep your minds out of the gutter :bigsmyl2:) and the gun is very accurate to further distance and it gives you the ability to take even the commercial loads and get some impressive velocity and energy.

Having shot s few Black Bears with the 10 it has done the job well.

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBkjdutVmFA

And just to confuse you a little more


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwXJ2yhfnU

[Bigslug]

Straight up .45 ACP over either. Hardball speed with 230 grain LFN's of WQWW has given me nine milk jugs. That'll give you a broadside pass-through on an elk unless you're hitting shoulders. Having been present for a 1911/.45 Super barrel burst, put me firmly in the camp of NOT letting Captain Kirk put that kind of stress on the dilithium crystals. We have revolvers for a reason.

[tunnug]

Is the 10mm more powerful than the 40S&W ? remember the 40 was made up of a shorter 10mm for those that couldn't handle the power of the 10 which is why it's called 40 short&weak.
I use a G20 with CorBon solids for my in the woods protection for 4 & 2 legged critters, easier to feed with off the shelf fodder, can't recall seeing .45 Super on the shelves.

[Artful]

Is the 10mm more powerful than the 40S&W ? remember the 40 was made up of a shorter 10mm for those that couldn't handle the power of the 10 which is why it's called 40 short&weak.
I use a G20 with CorBon solids for my in the woods protection for 4 & 2 legged critters, easier to feed with off the shelf fodder, can't recall seeing .45 Super on the shelves.

Depends who loads it - check out the video I posted

[DougGuy]

Dangerous game? 45 ACP would be my LAST choice!

10mm will out penetrate the 45 ACP any day of the week.

45 Super will out penetrate the 10mm any day of the week.

One good thing to remember is never bring a knife to a gunfight.

One even more gooder thing to remember is always bring enough gun to any fight.

[DougGuy]

If you take the OPs question, and you take all the suggestions posted in reply, and you lined up a table full of bowling pins, and you shot 5 pins off the table as fast as you could with each caliber/load suggested in this thread, which one would clear the table the fastest, which one would fling pins 10 feet behind the table? THIS is the load you want for the game the OP listed in his post. If it wouldn't absolutely do a number on bowling pins, I CERTAINLY wouldn't want to depend on it for game a whole lot bigger and meaner than me!

[Mr_Sheesh]

I'll just stick with 45ACP or swap over to 44Rem Mag depending on what critters I expect will bother me. (2 or 4 legged?)

Ranger Creek in this state (by Mt Rainier sorta) used to have someone robbed while camping alone, almost every weekend we were out there - So if out alone and a dog is legal to have with you, they can help spot dangers...

[fcvan]

I have been considering getting a 400 Cor-Bon barrel for my 1911. Same performance at 10MM, less operating pressure, easy to make brass. I would use 45 super or Win Mag brass for the thicker case head.

Bottle necked pistol cases have a cool factor. I had collected so much 357 Sig brass that I ended up buying a Wolf barrel for my G22 and some dies. The Lee 358-125 RF has the same profile as some factory rounds a friend gave me. He found out I was going to start shooting that cartridge and gave me over a case of 357 Sig rounds he didn't need anymore. Anyway, after shooting the 357 Sig it got me thinking about the 400 Cor-Bon round.

[tunnug]

Depends who loads it - check out the video I posted
I did watch them, I also know that a lot of companies download their 10's which is why I go with full power Cor-Bons, I also load my own not so hot but up there loads to bring out the 10's potential, not trying to slam other calibers just putting out there what I have learned about the 10, my go to gun at home is the G23 and have always thought the nickname short and weak funny.

[Mr_Sheesh]

"Dangerous game"? OP mentioned "mountain lion, moose, deer and black bear" - A seriously ticked off moose would be probably the worst of those dangerous game critters, I'd think that 8 rounds of 45 ACP in the boiler room in about 3 seconds wouldn't do a moose lots of good. (Used to be able to do an "El Presidente" drill in 5.5 seconds or so, I imagine under stress I'd be reloaded and emptying mag #2 pretty fast if needed & if possible...) Now, if we're talking Brown bears, I'd swap to a 12 gauge or larger rifle round; That wasn't what the OP specified though. Mountain Lion your best defense is to not be running and to be situationally aware, plus armed. Same for the other critters really, which OP mentioned.

[Artful]

I did watch them, I also know that a lot of companies download their 10's which is why I go with full power Cor-Bons, I also load my own not so hot but up there loads to bring out the 10's potential, not trying to slam other calibers just putting out there what I have learned about the 10, my go to gun at home is the G23 and have always thought the nickname short and weak funny.

Yep, big difference in Ammo Mfg products and I know that 10mm and 357 mag suffer from down loading from original loadings.

Here's a video of Buffalo Bore 45 Super tested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJuNBK0nFJI

[jmort]

Dangerous game? 45 ACP would be my LAST choice!

10mm will out penetrate the 45 ACP any day of the week.

45 Super will out penetrate the 10mm any day of the week.

One good thing to remember is never bring a knife to a gunfight.

One even more gooder thing to remember is always bring enough gun to any fight.

This is reality

[bdicki]

Underwood makes some full power loads as well.

[Texas by God]

On my walks, I carry an 18" H&R Topper 20 gauge. Very light, very effective come what may.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Texas by God]

Ok, I would choose the .45 with a flat point FMJ.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[huntersdog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBkjdutVmFA

And just to confuse you a little more


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwXJ2yhfnU
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing it..

[lefty o]

most 10mm ammo is just a duplicate of the 40s&w loads. loaded up to the top of its potential, and the 10mm is a different animal.

[fivefang]

Artful, thank's for posting , look back at the .44rem.GC. factory loading of the late 50's, ( speaking of downloading), Fivefang

[725]

It's personal, to a point, but I'd opt for a 10. Loaded to it's potential, it's wicked. My story is only anecdotal, but while hunting and tracking a wounded hog (300# or so )<wounded by a poor shot with a .44 mag>, I was charged - straight on - and two hits from my 10 mm crumpled the hog into summersaults right at me. Anecdotal - yep - but I like the 10.

[Ramjet-SS]

Well when you ask for opinions you will get opinions.

My choice was based on many high stress drills with a number of weapons.

I cannot run the Ruger RedHawk Back Packer in 44 mag very well in double action near as fast on target as I can a long slide 10mm or my G40 with the 7" KKM barrel. A plus give me 14 rounds of 10 over 6 of 44 any day of the week. With that said a 45 Super would also out perform the 44 mag snubby with 240 grain or higher weight full load projectiles.

I am a 10mm fanboy....full disclosure :bigsmyl2:

[yeahbub]

Either one loaded to potential seems a good choice. I was running 200gr XTP out of a 5" 1911 .45 acp at 1200fps (with an 18 lb. spring, two buffers and a buffer washer to take the pounding). The .45 Super exceeds that and is a cracking beasty when loaded full steam. And you can go back to standard ammo should the need arise. I suppose the same is true of 10mm, but .45 is available anywhere.

A friend and I played with .400 CorBon and it is very potent, but there are teething troubles. The dies didn't want to shrink the neck enough to prevent set-back when fed through the action, which will drive pressures way up there. It headspaces on the shoulder, so shoulder position is critical to long case life, as is chamber and size die match-up. The cases were showing separation cracks on the third firing, sometimes second, so a neck sizer is on order as is a cannelure tool for proper crimp groove position. For personal defense, bottleneck cases may not be the way to go until the details are ironed out.

[MT Chambers]

None of the above....in my experience a big cal. levergun (45/70) or revolver in .45 Colt's or .44 Mag. or larger is required for large Cdn. moose or bears that have already launched themselves at you.

[Lloyd Smale]

I voted 10mm for a couple reasons. First is brass is easier to come by. Second is that my 29 and 20 when loaded with top end ammo have more snort then a 40 or 45acp. That said if I'm walking in the woods where big bear or moose sized game could be involved my choice of guns is going to start with a 44mag and go up from there. Now around here the most dangerous and largest thing your going to see in the woods is a black bear and if your afraid of black bear attacks then you've been reading to many storys on the internet. What a 10mm is good for is up to deer sized game and self defense as is the 45super. I would not hunt even deer with a 45acp or 40sw.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Family member (being an idiot) went out woods walking sans a weapon & a black bear treed him. Sometimes a black bear wakes up in a BAD mood & you don't want to let them gnaw on you... Humans're more likely a threat here tho.

[lefty o]

very close encounters do happen with black bears, though you are more likely to get your butt whuppped by a whitetailed deer.

[pmer]

Are the slides hollowed-out more for the 45 super cartridge. Because shouldn't one rely on more than just the 45 super brass to contain the pressures of the higher pressure cartridge. Just wondering are the barrels and Chambers for the 45 Super's thicker? Or does it use better Steel?

[NWPilgrim]

Family member (being an idiot) went out woods walking sans a weapon & a black bear treed him. Sometimes a black bear wakes up in a BAD mood & you don't want to let them gnaw on you... Humans're more likely a threat here tho.

That is the key thing. While "most" black bear will avoid humans (try hunting them without bait or dogs!), sometimes the circumstances are just wrong and one will attack (mother, ill mannered teenage boar, etc.). I hiked along Copper Ridge in the North Cascades and there was a teenage boar lurking around a pass waiting for tired hikers to stop so it could get their backpacks and goodies inside. There was a couple of rangers manning the fire lookout and warning hikers about it (armed with .357 it looked like). We encountered a bedraggled fellow stumbling down from the pass who had been treed the previous night by the bear while it tore apart his camp, pack, tent. He was skedaddling with the shirt on his back in the early morning. So a bear that has learned to forage off people in a high traffic area can be dangerous, just like the proverbial momma bear with cubs. The few black bears I've seen are relatively small (150-250#). But some like around Mt Rainier in the fall are huge, more like 350-500#.

I generally carry a G23 in .40 because human riffraff are much more likely. But if I go to areas I know have larger bears I am taking my S&W 29 Mountain Gun. Been thinking of a G20 with Underwood ammo though.

[Josh Smith]

Are the slides hollowed-out more for the 45 super cartridge. Because shouldn't one rely on more than just the 45 super brass to contain the pressures of the higher pressure cartridge. Just wondering are the barrels and Chambers for the 45 Super's thicker? Or does it use better Steel?

The steel is plenty thick.

Ramped barrels are generally recommended.

Regards,

Josh

[sawinredneck]

Given what the OP asked for I’ll say a 44mag!
Before burning me at the stake let me explain please. I love the 10mm and have for years, it’s a great cartridge, but while the ammo isn’t as scarce as it once was, it’s still not that readily available at your average gun shop. 45 Super, I cant honestly say I’ve ever seen a box of factory ammo! If the OP was looking to reload I think either would be great, but limiting themselves to only off the shelf ammo I’m afraid they may end up in a situation without any ammo.
Just my $.02, it’s worth what you paid.

[Mr_Sheesh]

If in areas where 2-legged wolves aren't expected there's nothing wrong with 44 Mag. Not as fast for reloads if you meet a crowd of wannabe criminals, is all. Powerful enough for my AO though.

[Lloyd Smale]

We have lots of bear up here. Ive shot them off my back porch coming in to eat apples and have chased them right off that back porch, a sow and two cubs and that mother sure didn't stick around to protect her cubs. She was gone in a flash and the two little ones were trailing behind. that said out in the woods ive seen exactly one bear that I walked up on in the wild. 99.99 percent of the time there gone when they hear you long before you get up to where you can see them. I'm not saying nobody has ever been killed by a black bear but id be much more conserned with wolves or rabbid animals up here then black bear. Also contrary to what some walter middy types will tell you black bear are not hard to kill. No harder then a whitetail to put down and they usually don't run near as far when hit. ANY gun that's powerful enough to kill a deer will do the same to a black bear. Lived up here all my life and have never heard a single story of a bear attacking anyone in the area. I have to chuckle on the internet fourms when guys start thinking there hunting dangerous game when there hunting a black bear. You have to really be asking for it to get attacked by one and that's only if you spend every hour of every day out in the woods so you actually have a chance of an encounter to begin with.

[richhodg66]

No real advice here as I have very little experience with 10mm and none with the .45 Mag, but it seems to me that the advice to be more concerned about two legged varmints than bears and such is sound. Carry what you shoot best, the .45 ACP has a good reputation in this regard.

If I were really concerned about it, I'd carry some kind of a rifle or shotgun. But I don't live in bear country, so all this is just opinion.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I think encounters are on the rise in the past few decades, as "progress",ugh, eats up more forests/wooded habitats everyday, but as far as blackbears go, usually they run. as for the guns, I would choose the 10mm, if forced to pick between the choices, because the 10 can be had in a reliable CZ razorback, and I think one or two other models, but personally, a 4-6" ruger redhawk in 44mag would be my choice, but if you are already carrying a 7.5" Super Blackhawk in 44, you are well armed. if your are used to single actions, you can cock before you can get the sights back on target after recoil!-Travis

[Ramjet-SS]

I do not want to offend anyone but unless any of you are Jerry Miculek. those 44 mags in a close quarter rapid fire combat situation weather it man or beast will make it tough to register as many hits as you can with a 10MM Glock. Just trying to be realist here. This is based on many shooting sessions with both calibers. Plus give me 14 vs 6 anyday.

[bdicki]

My G20 holds 16

[Ramjet-SS]

My G20 holds 16

I do not go for the compressed extra rounds but you are correct.

[sawinredneck]

I do not want to offend anyone but unless any of you are Jerry Miculek. those 44 mags in a close quarter rapid fire combat situation weather it man or beast will make it tough to register as many hits as you can with a 10MM Glock. Just trying to be realist here. This is based on many shooting sessions with both calibers. Plus give me 14 vs 6 anyday.

Point of contention, same as the wolf pack scenario above, if you cannot get out of a situation with six rounds of 44mag, you may want to reconsider some of your choices! IF it’s that bad, I don’t think any handgun is getting you out! Just sayin.
As Col. Cooper always said, “A handgun is there to buy you time to get to your rifle.”
In some of the predicted scenarios, even my AR-10 with a 20rd mag leaves me screwed! Just something to ponder.

[dk17hmr]

If you have other 45acp chambered handguns I would go 10mm. If you don't have any 45acp handguns I would strongly consider 45 super. Reason behind this would be accidentally putting a 45 super load in a non super compatible handgun.
I carry a 10mm in the mountains most of the time loaded with 200gr WFN heat treated cast bullets going about 1300fps. But often I carry my Ruger 380 because I'm just not that worried about running into a problem, if I was I'd have one of those short 12 gauge shotguns Mossberg has.

[9.3X62AL]

I do not go for the compressed extra rounds but you are correct.

I do likewise with my Grock 10mms--13 down, 1 up/ 9 down, 1 up. The Pearce "+2" baseplates basically give you OEM claims without straining the magazines, and better control for the Glock 29. Silvertips in that little monster are great fun, but kind of a handful.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A 10MM Glock 20 with one of the arm braces in my post above would be the hot tip.

You are hiking and you obviously don't want to carry a rifle, but having Rifle Like accuracy from a gun that is essentially a .357 Magnum wouldn't be a bad thing, huh.

This device covers that and is simple to use and weighs almost nothing. Also totally Legal everywhere.

Think about it

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

ya but the big advantage is a 500 lb bear hit with one 300 grain 44 mag bullet is probably not going to require 4 hits to persuade it to go away or go to its maker. A load like that on a charging bear will penetrate stem to stern and take the fight out of something. I own 10s and 44 mags and know which id prefer if a bear was coming at me with intent.
I do not want to offend anyone but unless any of you are Jerry Miculek. those 44 mags in a close quarter rapid fire combat situation weather it man or beast will make it tough to register as many hits as you can with a 10MM Glock. Just trying to be realist here. This is based on many shooting sessions with both calibers. Plus give me 14 vs 6 anyday.

[mnewcomb59]

I do not want to offend anyone but unless any of you are Jerry Miculek. those 44 mags in a close quarter rapid fire combat situation weather it man or beast will make it tough to register as many hits as you can with a 10MM Glock. Just trying to be realist here. This is based on many shooting sessions with both calibers. Plus give me 14 vs 6 anyday.

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of bear attacks. They don't stand around and let you dump your mag like a video game boss fight. They pop out of underbrush 30 yards away from you already running at 35-45 mph. You get one shot. Maybe one more after it tackles you. Even Jerry would have only have one shot on a charging bear. Protecting yourself against charging bears is fundamentally different than hunting bears where they don't know you are there and you pick can carefully pick your shot.

In the case of a bear mauling, capacity of the firearm doesn't matter as long as long as you have some kind of repeater. 6 is more than you need. You either hit your first shot in the central nervous system/structural bones, or you are bear food.
Now for a survival gun - capacity does matter. Lets imagine your plane wrecked and you need to last a week or two in the bush. Would I rather have 6 44 mags or 16 10mm? Easy answer if you are assuming I don't just have a box of 50 for each.

[jmort]

ya but the big advantage is a 500 lb bear hit with one 300 grain 44 mag bullet is probably not going to require 4 hits to persuade it to go away or go to its maker. A load like that on a charging bear will penetrate stem to stern and take the fight out of something. I own 10s and 44 mags and know which id prefer if a bear was coming at me with intent.

Completely agree
Do you want one six to eight foot long wound channel
Or three four foot long holes
I will take the single end to end hole every time

[CraigOK]

I like that guys videos, thanks for posting. Very informative

[mnewcomb59]

I like that guys videos, thanks for posting. Very informative

The main takeaway is that, unless you buy Underwood or Buffalo Bore is that the 10 mm is a long 40. It has way less juice than 357. If you reload, and don't we all, the 10mm can almost equal the 357 but penetrates less and has less down range energy because of worse sectional density and ballistic coefficient.

45 super is right there with them both, almost equal to a 357 mag. But, of the three it has the least muzzle blast. 8 grains of Power Pistol is much easier on the ears than 19 grains of Lil' Gun. If I don't have ear plugs I won't even touch off one round of 357 in a revolver. A 357 is louder than a short barreled 18" 30-06. A 357 mag is louder than a 22" 300 win mag with a muzzle brake.

By comparison, in a 5" sealed barrel the 45 super sounds about like a 22" .410 or some other low brass shotgun round. Definitely not vitamins for the ears, but if you touch off one or two you can still hear your deer running through the brush and you don't go deaf for 3 days. The revolver is 35,000 psi vented at your knuckles vs 2500-3000 psi vented 5" in front of your knuckles. You could probably hear 10 45 supers for the amount of tinnitus that 1 357 revolver shot gives you.

[huntersdog]

Check out the 45 Super penetration in the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ09PbAO9fQ

[Ramjet-SS]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of bear attacks. They don't stand around and let you dump your mag like a video game boss fight. They pop out of underbrush 30 yards away from you already running at 35-45 mph. You get one shot. Maybe one more after it tackles you. Even Jerry would have only have one shot on a charging bear. Protecting yourself against charging bears is fundamentally different than hunting bears where they don't know you are there and you pick can carefully pick your shot.

In the case of a bear mauling, capacity of the firearm doesn't matter as long as long as you have some kind of repeater. 6 is more than you need. You either hit your first shot in the central nervous system/structural bones, or you are bear food.
Now for a survival gun - capacity does matter. Lets imagine your plane wrecked and you need to last a week or two in the bush. Would I rather have 6 44 mags or 16 10mm? Easy answer if you are assuming I don't just have a box of 50 for each.

LMAO I have been near more bears than you can imagine now they were all black bears but had bluff charges from several have been close enough during a dog fight to smell there breath. So without trying to offend you sir I most certainly do understand. I also run about 8-10k of ha D gun ammo per year but many of you are missing the point it takes allot of practice and discipline to runs a heavy loaded 44. Under the best conditions the recoil and power sends many a decent shot to the dogs so to speak. But now add in a charge from an animal that can cover 20 yards in seconds there are many who will pull that shot now add in the reminder of the recoil,of heavy loaded 44 and you pull the shot. Let's compare the loooong double action pull of a revolver and another variable that causes the errand shot. But it's choice you pick what you want me I will take the 10mm

[Mr_Sheesh]

Bears don't always charge tho; Family member was treed by one (if he'd even been carrying a .22 he could have used that to some effect, bad choice tho.) Not every sitation's the same; Sometimes you just get "Ogled", sometimes you get charged. Sometimes the bear figures out you're a human and toddles off, wanting not much to do with you.

[M-96 Hunter]

Both are heavy and underpowered.

A 329 Smith stoked with 300 gr hardcasts outpaces either. Most bear encounters end up with the gun against the bear. A revolver is more reliable then.

[curioushooter]

Don't black bears climb trees?

And I think the OP was referring to Brown Bears. Not the same animal as Black at all! At least I don't know anywhere that the ranges of black bear overlap with moose AND cougars.

In any case I think it a mistake to use an auto-pistol. A S&W 610 vs. a S&W 625. 45acp and 40 short and weak is everywhere and would work in the same chamber with no reliability worries in revolver. Just like a 357/38 but with moon clips. 45 super and 10mm are basically handloading affairs. In that situation my nod would go to the 625/45 super loaded with a heavy bullet in the first chamber. And perhaps lighter expanding bullets going faster in the others. Make sights for the first shot. The rest are for shooting at PBR.

I woukd seriously consider a long gun or something like a 460 or 500 if you are in Brown bear country (not my country).

[Ramjet-SS]

Like cats.....

[frank505]

One shot from a 1911 loaded with buffalo bore 45 super 250 grain stopped a grizzly charge. The bear left after and was not found.
Brown bear was killed with a10mm with two shots, one in the head.
I carry different pistols on the mountain, whichever I've got is a bear pistol when I see a bear.

[lefty o]

Don't black bears climb trees?

And I think the OP was referring to Brown Bears. Not the same animal as Black at all! At least I don't know anywhere that the ranges of black bear overlap with moose AND cougars.

In any case I think it a mistake to use an auto-pistol. A S&W 610 vs. a S&W 625. 45acp and 40 short and weak is everywhere and would work in the same chamber with no reliability worries in revolver. Just like a 357/38 but with moon clips. 45 super and 10mm are basically handloading affairs. In that situation my nod would go to the 625/45 super loaded with a heavy bullet in the first chamber. And perhaps lighter expanding bullets going faster in the others. Make sights for the first shot. The rest are for shooting at PBR.

I woukd seriously consider a long gun or something like a 460 or 500 if you are in Brown bear country (not my country).

moose, cougar, and black bears all reside in MN.

[zymguy]

I spend alot of time in the wilderness. I dont carry unless its hunting season. Ive dealt with mock charges and black bears tactics. I pay a premium for a light tent,sleepingbag,stove,waterfilter,toothbrush etc. If im realistic about what the threats to my survival are i cant justify the burden of a gun. As such my answer to the OP would be get the one youll enjoy at the range too, cuz thats when youl use it.
I'm in NO WAY discuraging the op from carying, but in MN there have been far more attacks by otter than wolf. Tho there was a black bear that attacked 2 groups bout 60 miles from here this winter , it made national news .
I guess if i were to justify something for protection in the sub boreal where i reside itd be a marine coat shockwave. good for bear and otter

https://www.twincities.com/2017/12/19/black-bear-shot-after-separate-attacks-on-northern-mn-workers-dog-owner/

http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-girl-has-surgery-after-being-bitten-severely-in-lake/435838403/

[sixshot]

No matter where you are or what you're doing, carry the one you shoot the best. Also, why choose to be a victim when it's legal to carry? I teach a ladies handgun class & one of the first questions I ask them is, would any of you drive to Salt Lake City with out your spare tire? I think all of you can figure out where I'm going with that question.

Dick

[robbyPGP2014]

Interesting thoughts and ideas, I em seeing some differences, it as there should be , I can see everyones point.Please do not jump in to quickly. Study,think,and try to find someone who has some experience with the calibers you are considering as they are little above average on recoil.More important above all else to would to become capable with whatever I chose. I hope this does not sound sanctious or offensives I done things to rashly over the years.

[Anchorite]

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