In the universe of pocketable semiautomatic pistols . . .

[Naphtali]

Ruger's LCR 357 Magnum weighs about 17.5 ounces unloaded and about 22 ounces loaded with five FBI 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP cartridges. Among semiautomatic pistols that have been in production long enough to demonstrate they are pretty much defect free, is there a 9x19 mm or 380 ACP pistol - with second strike capability - that weigh no more when loaded that is very easily pocketable?

While my inclination is to limit semiautomatic pistols to hammer guns only, I understand that there are striker fired pistols that also have a second strike capability.

[fcvan]

I have a Taurus TCP380 that I could hit soda cans at 25yds on my first outing. It is as small as my Berretta .22lr tip-up barrel outside dimension, but thinner than the Beretta. When the Glock 42 came out (.380acp) I bought one, and had no problem hitting a 6" steel plate at 100yds. The the Glock 43 came out. Dimensionally similar to the to the 42, only instead of being .98" thick, it is 1.08" thick but shoots 9mm. The Taurus 709 Slim, also 9mm is similar in dimension to the G43, has a heavier slide, and holds 7+1 instead of 6+1. The 709 is the only pocket gun I have with re-strike. Wait, I have an FEG PA63 (clone of Walther PP) that is double/single action and does re-strike. That pistol had a horrible double action pull, something like 18lbs. Crisp single action though. It is similar in size to the G43. After reading up on the PA63, the double action pull was designed to be that heavy, the fix being clip 2 coils off the main spring, or replace with a stock Walther spring. I left it alone figuring that IF I were carrying it I could either carry cocked/locked, or just pull the trigger. During stress drills, I didn't really notice the trigger pull and figure if adrenaline kicked in it would not be an issue. G43 is a constant carry gun, and for a re-strike, you only need to cycle the slide back a slight bit to re-cock the striker. With practice it can be done single handed. I did it once while qualifying weapon side, unsupported, and didn't even think about it. The range master (a co-worker and fellow SWAT member) was impressed. (We used G22/G35s as duty weapons)

So there is a small sampling, I have friends who like their S&W Shield, Sig something or others, your mileage may very. Go check them out, handle them, if there is a range that rents guns, try them and find what suits you.

[Bigslug]

Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!

[Lloyd Smale]

yes sir! takes no more effort then pulling the hammer back and shooting again. Bottom line is todays little semi auto guns are as reliable as any revolver. I'm not to worried about it anyway. Ive owned 3 lcps now and don't remember in all the thousands of factory and handloads ive put through all three of them the gun ever failing to go bang when I pulled the trigger. In my experience a round that doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled probably isn't going off the second time anyway.
Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!

[winelover]

Light weight, single stack semi's, in serious caliber's (9 mm) are scarce as hens teeth. Those with second strike capability, even more so. I have a Beretta Nano, as well as a 357 LCR, the unloaded Nano weighs as much as the loaded LCR. Recently, purchased a Kahr CM-9 because of it's lighter weight. The weight of the loaded Kahr, with 7 rounds, is about equal to that of the fully loaded 357 LCR. Neither, the Nano or the Kahr, offer second strike capabilities but I don't find that a handicap. Both semi's are reliable. BTW, my primary mode of carry is "pocket", in a Mika holster. Goes in when I wake and out when I retire.

Winelover

[44MAG#1]

Glock M43 is the compact that one wants. Can shoot +P and is very reliable.
I carry mine IWB. I've not seen the need to carry it or any one in the pocket although I have an LCP2.
Can carry IWB just as easily and just as concealed. I don't wear shorts and a wife beater so don't worry about pocket carry.
Ow if I lived where the temps soared to 100 degrees and over I might wear shorts but still no wife beater.
When you carry you dress for carry.

[winelover]

I have found that for those of us that carry 24/7...........IWB, will wear out your furniture, fast. My kitchen chairs are a testament to that. Don't want to have toreplace leather living room furniture.

Winelover

[44MAG#1]

I have found that for those of us that carry 24/7...........IWB, will wear out your furniture, fast. My kitchen chairs are a testament to that. Don't want to have toreplace leather living room furniture.

Winelover

You mean you carry when you sleep too? Man that must be uncomfortable when rolling over in bed and sleeping on the gun. If I lived in an area I had to sleep wearing a gun I would move. Now keep I mind I have dosed off in a chair with mine but I don't sleep in bed with it.
I wear a shirt over my gun even at home most of the time. Sit in the same chair mostly and haven't had a problem.
Everyone is different.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm going to toss out two of the OP's criteria - The 380 chambering and the second strike capability.

In today's world we have small pistols chambered in 9mm that rival the 380 pistols is size. If you have a pistol chambered in 380 that you are proficient with, by all means, keep it. However, in today's world I wouldn't go in search of a new 380 pocket pistol when there are 9mm pistols just as small.

Double strike capability - either the round goes bang or it doesn't. If it doesn't go bang, get rid of it. This is one of the advantages of a DA revolver. It automatically gets rid of the bad cartridge for you when you pull the trigger again.

So, with the remaining criteria: lightweight and easily carried in a pocket; here are some ideas:

The Kahr PM9 - lightweight, single stack polymer frame with an operating system very similar to Glock. Prior to the introduction of the Glock model 43, this was about as close as you could get to the Glock concept with a single stack/compact design. The early PM40 had problems and I think the 40 S&W was just a bit too much for that platform. The 9mm PM9 was reliable.

Which brings us to the Glock 43 - Glock finally woke up and produced the pistol that everyone was screaming for. A single stack, compact 9mm pistol.

After those two pistols you get into all of the other makes that will fit the criteria and do the job; but frankly, aren't all that different.

[Petrol & Powder]

AND........

I can't help but comment on the pistol v. revolver issue.

Years ago I bounced around between several different small pistols. This was before any small 9mm pistols were available so most of the guns were chambered in 380. After doing that for some time, I landed back at the DAO snubnose revolver in 38 Special. That was more than 20 years ago and I haven't looked back since. Had there been a good compact, proven 9mm pistol on the market in those days, I may have settled in a different place. I'll never know.

Ultimately, training, practice and consistency will have greater value than slightly better terminal ballistics and slighter greater cartridge capacity - IMO.
At least I'm willing to bet on that.

However, we now also have better compact DAO revolvers on the market.
S&W 640, S&W 340PD (now without the lock), Ruger LCR in .357, Kimber K6S, etc. They may not all fit the lightweight criteria but they're close.
So the revolver market has also changed over the years.

[jmort]

The two LCP IIs I have will fit a pocket better than anthing I have seen. The small 9mms are not that small. I am not concerned with second strike issue. I can easily roll with an LCP in each pocket of my 5.11 pants. I can do the same with a couple of my LCRs. New York reload, pull the second gun.

[Dan Cash]

Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!

I could not say it better!

[fecmech]

The two LCP IIs I have will fit a pocket better than anthing I have seen. The small 9mms are not that small.
IMO the small 9's are still holster guns, the LCP's and Keltec P3AT's are pocket guns which for me means carried ALL the time.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

... ;)

[Certaindeaf]

Ruger's LCR 357 Magnum weighs about 17.5 ounces unloaded and about 22 ounces loaded with five FBI 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP cartridges. Among semiautomatic pistols that have been in production long enough to demonstrate they are pretty much defect free, is there a 9x19 mm or 380 ACP pistol - with second strike capability - that weigh no more when loaded that is very easily pocketable?

While my inclination is to limit semiautomatic pistols to hammer guns only, I understand that there are striker fired pistols that also have a second strike capability.
The LCR does not, nor does any revolver have "second strike" capability.. yea, it'll rotate through (lest it locks up) and "second strike" that particular primer again but not in conventional/standard/proper description.
anyway, probably use good primers and don't mess with the springs, hear?

[44MAG#1]

I guess a Glock M29 wouldn't qualify.

[Artful]

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[Speedo66]

I tested a Sig 938 at my range. Nice gun, very accurate, but for me a little heavy for pocket carry. My other problem was I trained first on revolvers, then Glocks, so I'm used to just pulling the trigger rather than hunting for an external safety.

Now retired, my choice for pocket carry is a Ruger LCP. No second strike capability, but so far I haven't needed it. If I do, it'll be "tap, rack, ready".

[Speedo66]

double post

[44MAG#1]

None of the glocks have second strike that I am aware of.

The other semi's others are talking about does?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

e ...

[44MAG#1]

Before I would snap again an then find out it wasn't going to fire on the second hammer drop I believe I would rack the slide to put an new cartridge in the chamber instead of taking a chance.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't get the obsession with second strike capability.

It either goes bang or it doesn't.

You can take another whack at getting a bad primer to light off (chances are really good that it will not fire with a second strike) or you can just get rid of the bad round and carry on.

That's one of the advantages of a DA revolver. The "second" strike is on the next cartridge.

[Artful]

Post removed by user

[Naphtali]

Bigslug: As someone who has only double action revolvers as EDC, what might be a learned memory for you would be nothing of the sort for me. I'll believe we'll have to agree to disagree.

[FergusonTO35]

I carry my own reloads and load them like my life depends on it; because it could. I use primers from lot numbers which have proven themselves reliable and brass that has been checked for length with primer pockets cleaned. I visually inspect each round at every step of the process and measure for proper OAL before putting them in the box. The charges and boolits I use are proven to be very accurate and reliable in my guns, and I've fired hundreds of rounds of them. Hard to do that if you are paying $1.00 or more a shot for factory defense ammo.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Browning BDA will restrike but isn't as small & light as OP wants; I have to agree on "Just clear the malfunctioning round" though, if it's serious enough to need any rounds then why the heck would you TRY a bad round again? Try ANY other round, instead! That's what practice is for - to learn muscle memory to do that FAST.

AMT Backup is about in the weight range OP mentions, way too small for my Yeti hands tho. Not everyone has Yeti Mitts tho :P

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

, 5 oz

[LabGuy]

If I remember right ... the S&W M&P 380 also has that feature ...

Correct.

[kaiser]

I have a Ruger LCR in a 9X19 that uses "moon clips" that is usually by the "night stand". I carry a .32 Keltec, regardless whether any other pistol model is also aboard. The Keltecs weight is unnoticeable and it has no "signature" that gives away its presents on my person. The 9mm LCR weighs about the same as the .357 model, but recoils more like a 38 and is faster to load than either.

[Moonie]

I like to carry the wifes P938 when I need deep concealment, it is lighter than anything I carry, less rounds as well but it it is 9mm and shoots very well. Yes I know, it doesn't have double strike easily, cock it again or eject it.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I like to carry the wifes P938 when I need deep concealment, it is lighter than anything I carry, less rounds as well but it it is 9mm and shoots very well. Yes I know, it doesn't have double strike easily, cock it again or eject it.
I like and carry a p938 a lot in the summer time and a 1911 the rest of the time I like to keep things the same if i can

[jimb16]

I have a P3AT that I carry often and shoot on the range regularly. It started having problems igniting primers, so I couldn't/wouldn't carry it. I sent it back to the company and they replaced the main spring at no charge. Fires the first time every time again. If the firearm fails to do that, it needs to go back to the factory for repair.

[FergusonTO35]

I really like my Kimber Micro .380. It is really not much harder to carry than a little Kel-Tec or LCP and is very easy to shoot. I feed mine 3.1 grains Bullseye/Lee 356-102-2R.

[Lloyd Smale]

have to agree. My 43 is probably twice the size of my lcp. Your not going to carry a 43 in your front pocket unless you have BIG pockets. Even a lcp is borderline to big to keep in the front pocket of your jeans. I have a 43, a shield, and an lcp and find I carry my lcp MUCH more then the other two. A 380 in your pocket is much better then a 9mm in your truck or back home.
IMO the small 9's are still holster guns, the LCP's and Keltec P3AT's are pocket guns which for me means carried ALL the time.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have to agree. Ive shot tons of ammo through guns and can probably count on my one had how many times a second strike of a primer set off a round that the first pull didn't. Also if I owned a gun that didn't fire the round the first time if using good factory ammo or good handloads I sure wouldn't carry it to protect my life.
I don't get the obsession with second strike capability.

It either goes bang or it doesn't.

You can take another whack at getting a bad primer to light off (chances are really good that it will not fire with a second strike) or you can just get rid of the bad round and carry on.

That's one of the advantages of a DA revolver. The "second" strike is on the next cartridge.

[44MAG#1]

I will say this. Unless someone is wearing tight clothes to show off their body, unless they are very small, unless they are drawing their belt so tight they look like a wasp, and a couple more unlesses if you can't carry a M43 IWB, which is how I carry mine, someone is plain stubborn. I carry a M29 Glock IWB even in the summer.
Since I got the M29 I carry it the most. I have an LCPII but rarely carry it Pocket or otherwise because I like the extra power of a 9MM so therefore I will conform to carry it. I got the LCPII with the intention of carrying in my pocket but rarely did. Phooey on it. Now I have put it in my lounge pants occasionally but I have done that with my Smith J frame air weight M637 too.
But, if I am out the smallest caliber I carry will be my non "double strike" 9MM Glock M43. 95 percent of the time it will be my non "double strike" Glock M29 10MM loaded with the first two out of the gun 180 gr Gold Dot HP's with the rest 180 gr Hornady FMJ's.
Of course I am not the smartest person and carried my non "double strike" Glock M20 loaded the same way before I got the M29 Glock.

[Bigslug]

Bigslug: As someone who has only double action revolvers as EDC, what might be a learned memory for you would be nothing of the sort for me. I'll believe we'll have to agree to disagree.

It is called "learned" for a reason - you practiced with your wheelgun; you're going to have to practice with the auto. A few dummy rounds snuck into your mags by a pal works wonders.

Here's my beef with this "second strike auto" nonsense. Yes, primers can and do go off sometimes the second time you thump them. And sometimes they don't. And sometimes the gun doesn't go bang because somebody forgot to chamber a round. . .or maybe rode the slide forward when chambering, so it stopped shy of being fully in battery and the disconnector prevents firing. . .or maybe the mag wasn't seated fully when the attempt to chamber a round was made.

Tapping the mag and racking the slide solves ALL of that without needing to spend time diagnosing ANY of it. Pulling the trigger repeatedly with an increasingly worried look on your face only solves a lazy primer - if that is indeed what is going on.

If you REALLY want to rely on a second trigger pull to be your only answer for an unresponsive handgun, the best answer for you is to stick with the revolver. There's more to these autos than you seem to want to program.

[birch]

I recently did some trading for a Beretta Pico. So far, it is one awesome pocket pistol. I carried a LCP for years, but traded it off on something or another.

I came across this Pico, and it is quite an impressive pistol. The sights are better than any of the pocket pistols, and the felt recoil is nice even though it has a higher bore axis. I only have about 200 rounds of ball through it. I am about ready to load up some self defense hand loads, and then I will buy some factory self defense (Hornady Critical Defense).

It certainly has a better build quality than my LCP. It is comforting to have second strike capability.

[dougader]

How much time would a guy waste with that 2nd strike capability? Just keep pulling the trigger.... click, click, click, click, click, click, until your attacker runs up and slices your throat? Clear the offending round and fire a fresh round.

I pocket carry a G43 every day. Every day it sits in a DeSantis Superfly in my front right pocket, and I can't figure why people say it's too big for such. I even put a Taran Tactical base plate on it so it holds 7+1 rounds now. and spare mags are all +2 base plates for 8 more. Even with the +1 TT baseplate, it still carries fine in my front pocket. I forget it's there sometimes and no one has ever called me out on it in an office where I could be fired for carrying on site.

Some days I wear jeans, some days I wear tactical pants, but the gun fits in all of them fine. And when I'm walking to the car on a dark and rainy night, with my hand in my pocket, no one is the wiser.

Not only that, but a j-frame S&W rides in my left front pocket. If one hand is busy, the other is available.

[Artful]

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[Three-Fifty-Seven]

o! ;)

[Lloyd Smale]

if I'm looking for a specific type of a gun for a use and someone else has experiences that show that gun isn't the best idea for me and has a good solid reason why I should be looking at something else I welcome it. Lots of guys come here with not much experience and if someone can save them from making a mistake then why not post it???

[Mr_Sheesh]

Three-Fifty-Seven - if we see someone making a bad mistake, in our experience, what would you LIKE us to do? Praise someone for doing something that could get them fixated on a dysfunctional choice? I took a LOT of defensive shooting classes & helped train a lot as well, and I will go with my training. I'd be very shocked if others here aren't in the same boat. Go ask any reputable school that trains folks in using semi auto firearms for self defense and you'll hear them saying the same thing, I'd think. That's WHY we're trained to do the tap - rack - boom drill, among others. Muscle memory to save our lives, should we have a "serious social encounter" - with the best choices available to the trainers.

If I were to propose compressed loads of Bullseye for self defense loads, would you praise that choice because it's a free country, too? Bad choices are not good choices...

If the OP insists, it's their life. We just default to "And we'd rather they live, all other things being equal." Hoping you can live with that...

Another example; LEOs have in the past been trained to drop their empties into the coffee can for empties, for reloading - and stood up in mid-firefight to try to do so. And been shot or killed. Was that a good thing for them to train themselves to do? Or a bad choice? LOTS of other such examples in the field...

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.....

[jmort]

^^^ This makes sense

[Mr_Sheesh]

three-fifty-seven - I've not had bad luck with my 1911s. Did intentionally put dummy rounds in amongst the ammo for training though, and quite a few of them, Hundreds probably of "bad rounds" that way. So I made sure I practiced what I trained for.

At the time I began training, my sister had a stalker who was announcing his plan to rape and kill her (We knew who it was, but you can't string those up until they DO something extremely bad, sad to say.) So we put her through the course same time as I went through. And I was lined up to be doing the security system for a rather large gold mine in WA state. (Sadly lawyers and a large mining corporation ripped off the owner, "corrupt" doesn't even BEGIN to describe that. Poor guy got about $200k of the billions of fine gold dust in sandstone there - Unusual ore, but we knew exactly how to process it. They got an "exploration" contract, and "explored" the entire ore body out of the ground basically...)

I was training pretty dang hard, as I was expecting to have a decent chance of encountering some sort of serious social problems... I trained for more than a years' worth of classes, then helped train people there for another couple years. (Not just handgun classes, rifle and shotgun too.) The stories some people had, it is BAD how some people behave!

You seem to be misunderstanding - I was not putting down the Pico or the Commander at all; I am talking about TRAINING and CHOICES of HOW you are going to USE said weapon, not of your choices of WHICH weapon. None of the training schools I've researched have EVER mentioned "second strike" capability as being a desirable feature on a self-defense weapon, that I can remember. If someone's shooting at you, you don't want to take any "Low percentage chance" choices - You want to STOP them, ASAP!

That's why for revolvers, people train to just move on to the next chamber, and in autoloaders they slap the magazine in fully (to make sure it's seated), rack the slide to eject the bad round, then fire the new round, because whichever of those two options matches your weapon of choice gets you a new more-likely-GOOD round with a lot higher percentage chance of it FIRING, and sooner, getting you out of imminent danger of being hurt or killed, than trying to re-strike an already known faulty round. You don't have to agree with me, but they train people to SURVIVE being put in danger; If your life's in danger, a known bad round is EXPENDABLE, get RID of it and fire a good one... Figure out the rounds' problem later...

Question for you; Do you know of any reputable training place that actually recommends re-striking a round that misfires, if you are in a serious social encounter, being shot at or charged by a maniac with a machete or whatever?

(If you're just target shooting then it's a "do whatever you want" situation o'course, but I've been pretty clear that I'm talking self-defense here...)

On the OP's question - My hands are huge, I basically cannot FIRE those tiny guns - so I have not really tried to keep up to date on them; How would I answer about a good choice of a small firearm, given that situation?

[Tracy]

Bottom line is todays little semi auto guns are as reliable as any revolver.
I hear people say this all the time, but it is demonstrably not true.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

The OP asked a very specific question, he mostly got put down ...

He did not ask about training ...

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Tracy

[Grmps]

https://i.imgur.com/sKRwLhH.png

[eljefe]

I have 3 carry guns, usually I carry one at a time. My 642, 442
or diamondback 380 are all good pocket carry guns. The 442 is
what I carry every day. I carry in a neoprene pocket holster.

If I were advising the original poster, I would suggest a 642 or 442,
they are ostensibly the same gun. I don't carry anything I cannot carry
in my pocket. I wear loose blue jeans, and nobody even knows I am
carrying. I live in one of the bluest states, so I have to be extra careful
to not print.

[Mr_Sheesh]

More like 3XL gloves here. Zoro Tools actually has inexpensive decent gloves that pretty much fit me though, they sell on "that" auction site as well as directly. This helps.

We could have misunderstood the OP, communication definitely is hard. Maybe they will comment on this.

[str8wal]

Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!

What he said ^^^

[str8wal]

You will find if your a revolver shooter, that you instinctively pull the trigger again and if you have a hard primer it generally goes off.

But if you pull the trigger again with a revolver you advance to the next chamber so you are hitting a new primer, no? ;-)

[Mr_Sheesh]

That is how you clear the malfunction for revolvers :)

[charlie b]

Not if the previous round was a squib :)

My carry gun has never had a malfunction, even firing the cheapest 9x18 ammo I could find. About 500rds through it. The gun. Radom P-64, probably the cheapest centerfire pistol I've ever had.

When I carried a Ruger SP101 I could say the same thing. I fired only factory .357 and .38 spl in it.

Even the wife's Colt Commander has never malfunctioned when using factory ammo. Her only problems came when I made up some light loads for her. She fired one magazine and asked me for the 'hot' stuff again :) I had malfunctions firing the rest of the box. Failure to eject.

Even so I don't consider a 'second' strike to be important. Probably cause I trained and used 1911's for decades.

PS the little P64 makes a decent pocket pistol, but, I also carried my SP101 in a pocket sometimes so point of view is a bit slanted :)

[Texas by God]

I fired a Taurus TCP .380 weeks ago that impressed me with its accuracy and ssc da only trigger. Simple. The angry lcp da only and kel tec .32 & .380 are good also. I've not tried the S&W.380.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've never had a squib load, oddly. Had a few friends' reloads which were maybe 20%-50% overloads (After 2 I let them use their own ammo; Those "just" ejected the mag, probably stressed the grips, certainly stressed my adrenals.) Using a O ring press I'm sorta OCD on making sure rounds get only one powder charge in them, with a progressive I just make sure I use the press very consistently & that seems to do well. If someone came past & played with your progressive I can see how you could get a multiple charge tho... Makes me think of putting a lock on the press' arm if others have access to it!

[Tracy]

Tracy,

Part of the "problem" with the tiny compact semi-auto's is ... as Mr Sheesh stated, he has big hands ... so do I! (Wear XL size glove) so it is very difficult to get a good grip on the tiny bit of grip the manufacturer gives you ...

Looking at post #14 the Pico has a lot less to hold onto, than the LCR with Pachmayr Diamond Pro aftermarket grips, the Pico I can almost get part of a second (ring) finger onto it ... if I use the mag with the extension that Beretta also supplies, (not shown) then my ring finger gets to help ... but makes the gun larger ... compared to the LCR as pictured, which I can get all three fingers on ...

The Pico weighs a little over 11 oz ... it has a bit of recoil even with the so called "marginal - minumum" powered 380 ACP (look at pic of chronograph) ... trying holding onto such a thing firmly enough to allow the very stiff recoil springs to do their job when firing, allows a possibility of "problems" to arise.

The Pico for instance has no aftermarket choice of grips, the manufacturer offers different colored grips, but no different size, or shape, if you choose to use the option of the mag extension, you give up some of the compact size ...

I believe that a rubber type of "slip-on" could be added ... and it will increase the overall width ... the Pico is LESS than 3/4" wide, one of its desirable attributes for carrying undetected, why make it fatter? Some people add "grip tape" ... kinda like stair tread anti-slip tape, or skateboard tape ... adds thickness again, and "stickier" to draw ...

The little semi-auto's are not for everyone ... Neither are the mid-sized, or full sized semi-auto's, or any other action type ... good thing we in America have choices!

Sorry, but you missed the quote that I was replying to. Lloyd said small autos are as reliable as any revolver, and I replied that is demonstrably not true.
I have XL hands too, but my .357 LCR fits them pretty well. Fits in my pocket (which is its current and usual location) pretty well, too.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've seen new from the factory expensive small autos be (IMO) rather horrid (Walther PPK/S a friend bought, for example, had a maybe 25# DA trigger pull till it was stoned free of burrs, I almost couldn't fire that thing!) - But they can be fixed to where they are dang reliable. The 380 BDA I had just shot till you ran it out of ammo. Burrs don't seem to be cleaned up at the factory by some companies, be it an auto or a revolver...

[trapper9260]

I have a Ruger LCR in a 9X19 that uses "moon clips" that is usually by the "night stand". I carry a .32 Keltec, regardless whether any other pistol model is also aboard. The Keltecs weight is unnoticeable and it has no "signature" that gives away its presents on my person. The 9mm LCR weighs about the same as the .357 model, but recoils more like a 38 and is faster to load than either.You are so right about the KelTec 32. I have that in my pocket all the time and no one knows I have anything unless I told them. The weight of it helps also for how it is for me at times. I had talk with someone I know well and about carry and I told him about carry to not have any one see in anyway that you are. I ask him can he see if i am carry he look and I raise my shirt and all.he said you are not. Then I took out the 32 out of my pants pocket and he said he like that idea that way no one knows.I show it to him after I let him know it is loaded. He like it.So I gave him some ideas to carry also ,beside the way he been.

[Mr_Sheesh]

One good advantage of a 380 or other small gun is that you can be walking along with it in your hand in a pocket, and most passers by will just think your hands are cold and you put your hand in a pocket to warm them. (I'm big enough that I could do that with the Browning BDA, 13+1) - Can use that to give you time to get at your larger weapon if it's not in a quick to access holster (winter clothing for example.)

Do be safe, use a pocket holster or the like, covered trigger doncha know? Seriously - no one wants to see you had a negligent discharge, they may look at the pics if "forced" to but they'd really rather see you get a dog or cat & look at pics of that furkid or the barekids / grandkids, honestly.

Some GOOD newer holsters are out for your main pistol tho, nowadays; The Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.0 is pretty interesting, it's not traditional leather (and I wish it carried the gun with the muzzle a little more forwards, I detest bending my wrist during draw as I always trained with muzzle-forward holsters. Grump! :P) Conceals pretty well tho. IWB or OWB configurable.

I may look at another BDA eventually...

[Road_Clam]

I'm a tough case for CC, very old, very skinny. I carry the Beretta Nano front IWB. Luckily I do have a bit of a beer gut for a skinny guy so it helps concealment. My 9mm Nano was problematic cycling until I researched and figured out it has to have 124 gr ammo to cycle reliably. Pretty snappy for a heavier steel framed compact semi platform but I shoot it well enough to cease a potential threat and that's all that matters.

[Mr_Sheesh]

AFAIK all of the non LEO folks I know of who've had to draw on someone (more females than males, all pretty well trained tho) found that just drawing on a would-be bad guy reminded the bad guy that they'd left the iron on at home, and they promptly scuttled off to go tend to that potential problem. I haven't checked in a while, but so far none have had to shoot someone. One had a 17 year old "offer" to handcuff him to a chair, the kid had picked up an axe - In return he offered to perforate his hide with his 1911; Kid decided to lie down (wisely) and was tried as an adult, convicted, and sentenced, my friend was not displeased except by the bother of being pestered...

[Texas by God]

https://i.imgur.com/sKRwLhH.pngThat is so neat. Make mine in .25 acp if there is room!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Naphtali]

The judgment I have reached is that I am not temperamentally suited to switch from LCR to any pocketable semiautomatic pistol. I am convinced that second strike is nowhere as useful as a second trigger action on a double action revolver. Since I am a "belt-and-suspenders" kind've guy, total trust in ammunition quality I don't have. But the combination of almost completely trustworthy ammunition combined with a second cartridge rather than second strike is, for me, as close to perfection as I can get.

Again, I thank every one of you for clarifying my wants with my needs.

[curioushooter]

I'm pretty sure a S&W 638 J-frame airweight weighs less and shoots the same. Has a shrouded hammer, but is accessible for "second strike."

Also, I've litterally never had any malfunction whatsoever in a Kahr K9. It's heavier than that, but the plastic ones are the same.

147 grain XTPs go 1200 fps with 6 grains of 3n38, too.

[FergusonTO35]

Carrying my S&W 637 in my right front pocket right now. I keep it stoked with Lyman full wadcutters at 712 fps. They are very accurate and easy to shoot, and penetrate better than most hollow point rounds. I imagine the big flat nose would do some serious damage too. I can shoot my 637 double action quite well out to 15 feet or so. Jerry Miculek's grip and trigger pull technique really work for these guns.

[jmort]

"Lyman full wadcutters at 712 fps. They are very accurate and easy to shoot, and penetrate better than most hollow point rounds."

Depending on the lead alloy, the wadcutter will penetrate better than any expanding bullet. I don't care if it is a 700 Nitro, if it expands, it will penetrate miserably in comparison to a proper lead alloy bullet with a decent meplat at a moderate velocity. Even at 700 fps, your bullet will shoot through a 16" block of ballistic gelatin and sail on.

[44MAG#1]

I have pocket pistols and a revolver that will fit into a pocket. But I carry IWB. Of course I dress to carry that way even in summer. Here the top out temp in summer is maybe in the mid nineties. If one can carry IWB and be able to carry that way what is the advantage of pocket carry?
Remember I am intelligence challenged so please be easy with me. I've tried both ways and still prefer IWB. Of course my wife and another couple went out to eat last night (can you believe I want made fun of being in the public eye) and I carried a Glock M29. My friend carried a Glock M43 IWB with a half breed holster with just a pull over sweat shirt over it and I couldn't tell he has the gun. This past summer I carried a Glock M20. Still I don't understand the enamoration of pocket carry.
Please share your ideas on it as I may want to force myself to carry that way instead.

[jmort]

"Please share your ideas on it as I may want to force myself to carry that way instead."

Jerry Miculek carries in the pocket with a J Frame
I carry in pocket with LCP II or one of many LCRs
Anything poking around my waist is far more annoying than a pocket gun.
Why force yourself to do anything???
There is no one way
Proper pants, like 5.11 Tactical, really help with pocket carry

[44MAG#1]

Jmort,

Thanks for your input. I have carried IWB so much I don't pay any attention to it. I guess.

[fecmech]

I've tried both ways and still prefer IWB.
As long as you're satisfied that's all that matters.

[Mr_Sheesh]

If I'm in urban settings, let's say it's winter - Or rainy; Can have my coat sealed up to keep dry or warm - Then for a very fast draw it helps to have a 2nd weapon in pocket, and I can walk with hands in pockets, so my draw is "remove hand from pocket." Lots faster than removing hands from pockets, then either shifting the coat upwards or unzipping it, then drawing; I don't go places I feel the need to do that often (I didn't lose anything there!) but it's a good strategy to get a 380 or 38 special in play QUICKLY.

[FergusonTO35]

I like IWB carry with my Glock 42, unfortunately I am too fat to do it comfortably anymore. Pocket or ankle carry is just more realistic for me nowadays. Ankle carry in particular is quite underrated. I can carry my Glock 26 no problem in a Desantis Apache under my work slacks, and ankle is the fastest and easiest draw for me when sitting or driving.

[hp246]

Beretta Pico. Been carrying mine every day for the past two years. Most concealable pocket gun I've ever carried.

[Artful]

Post removed by user

[Texas by God]

On the farm I usually carry butt forward strong side Mexican carry( no holster) having the butt forward is more comfortable for me on tractor, Mule, or in the pickup. A shirttail or jacket hides whatever I'm carrying which is usually a 4" Combat Masterpiece.

[scattershot]

I can understand concealed carry, but if I thought I had to carry two guns everywhere I went, I’d think about moving to a safer location.

[jmort]

If I lived in Denver I would feel safer with a 12" spliff
Two pocket guns are easy and balance each other out

[GhostHawk]

Well I live in Fargo ND, and mostly I don't feel the need to carry at all.

However, since the state was good enough to let all us law abiding decent citizens carry concealed without having to go through classes, spend hard earned $$$$ on fees I have been considering it.

I recently found a H&R 732 in .32sw long and I did recently buy a small IWB holster for it.

I tried it stuck in my pants on my left side. I do favor cross draw a bit.

It was mostly out of the way, dropped a speed loader in my right pocket to help balance.

I had no issues with it. Carried it most of a day, never dropped it, never felt like it was out of control. Cooked in the kitchen with my wife for half an hour before showing it to her. She never knew it was there.

I guess if I have a hang up, it is this. I don't like to accept that I have to conceal carry to feel safe where I live.

Now I do believe in having a gun in case unloaded in the car. But setup in such a way that it could be gotten too, and readied for action pretty quickly. But I don't have to think about it. It is there if I need it, and out of mind until I do.

Nice IMO to have the ability to CC at a moments notice though.

I am just not sure if I can see myself as the person who needs a gun to go to walmart.

[44MAG#1]

"I am just not sure if I can see myself as the person who needs a gun to go to walmart."

You are right. Wal Mart is probably the safest place one can go.

[35remington]

“I am just not sure if I can see myself as the person who needs a gun to go to walmart.”

Most people probably don’t either.....until they do. On two occasions in the last two years I am glad I had a pistol on me. I still behaved as if I did not, and probably partially because of that nothing came of either event, but making proper personal choices does not guarantee someone else will do the same. In both of those instances other people were acting either very suspiciously or had very clear ill intent. Since I had no control over that (I had to go through the area they were occupying) it occurred in my immediate vicinity with little chance of avoidance until events began to clearly unfold.

At that point I made sure to gain some distance as best I could, but to have options in case I was not allowed to remove myself from the situation made me feel better about it. Hopefully that was as far as it will ever go.

Never in my life did I expect my mother (in the aftermath) to ask me, “you do have that pistol on you, right?”

You never know until you know.

[FergusonTO35]

I primarily carry a gun because I want to and it makes me happy. That's really the best way I can explain it. Yes, it is a great self defense tool and the mere sight of it usually causes a miscreant to reconsider their actions. But, that is not the main reason I carry a gun.

Back on topic, I think I need another Kel-Tec P32. I had one for a few years and am totally set up to cast and load for it. I sold it to pay off bills awhile back, and thought that I wouldn't miss it. But darn it, I do miss that little pocket rocket and I'm just going to havr to get another one.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I'd carry because I WANT to usually.

Only place I've really gone when I'd need to be armed was downtown Bremerton by the ferry docks - Arrived at 1AMish, missed the last ferry by a couple minutes. SO had to wait till the next one arrived. Shrugged and the guy I was with and I (both EDCing 1911s) walked down to a local bar to get a beer and a burger, on the way there had a couple guys who did NOT look like they had offering us good deals on yard work or the like walling parallel to us. I made sure they saw that I saw them, and didn't really CARE - If you learn how to "carry" energy and can go into the energy that a lame tiger would have, when a dear runs across the trail in front of it and trips and drops DRT in front of it - Go into that energy (Chi) and then look at a couple would-be predators. It makes them decide "Uh, NOPE let's go somewhere ELSE NOW!" They no likie :)

I could have done that even if not armed, but as I knew I was going by there and so on, chose to. Bremerton has all too many guys who like to "roll" the sailors who are staggering back to the ship, drunk as lords, after their time off. Not the best sort of people to meet unarmed, but if I was unarmed I'd use leverage and ruin their day, pistols just give you a way to "reach out and touch them" at more distance.

You folks and your .32's. Never even shot one here. Now I may have to go play with one. You lot're SOOOO BAD!!! :P LOL

[35remington]

The mindset that there are places you “need to be armed” and “don’t need to be armed” presupposes you know beforehand what is going to occur.

Bad things happen in good parts of town as well. Carry whenever and wherever possible legally. Anything less is crediting yourself with powers of future vision you do not have. One of my incidents was in the “good” part of town.

Mr. Sheesh, most places prohibit the consumption of alcohol while carrying and the carrying of concealed firearms in bars. I would suggest you behave differently in the future. You have more than one type of mindset that needs correction.

[44MAG#1]

The mindset that there are places you “need to armed” and “don’t need to be armed” presupposes you know beforehand what is going to occur.

Bad things happen in good parts of town as well. Carry whenever and wherever possible legally. Anything less is crediting yourself with powers of future vision you do not have. One of my incidents was in the “good” part of town.

You sir, are the most correct person on this thread. I wholeheartedly agree. At my age and my out of shapeness I am not going to try to brain wash myself into thinking I can out psych, out fight or out run any creep. Especially one that may be on mind altering substances and may not be in tune to the psych hooey.
Now onto areas. Who is to say that some creep won't be in a relatively safe area. But I guess that is impossible to happen. Right?

[Mr_Sheesh]

There're "Bad" and "Better" behaviors; None of us is perfect. I'll point out again that this is by the Bremerton Naval Shipyard, it was at 2AM, and the chances of seeing any LEO people is only slightly higher than seeing Bigfoot playing basketball there - The reason those little minded hyenas try rolling drunken sailors there, is that there *ARE NO LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE THERE AT ALL* - I don't understand WHY, if I was running that place there'd be plenty of MPs out there every 2-3 blocks and local PD cars in between until the lowlives "got it" that this was a bad place for then to go recreate at...

A couple cops I know had a double wedding, for SOME reason (must've been an accident) both were armed during the wedding, after it during the reception, and probably till shortly after the official Honeymoon festivities started... I don't suspect either of them drank zero boozeahol during the above. There were ZERO problems. Most of the people attending were also armed. And I suspect that, even if the law's "against you", if you BEHAVE WELL and don't massively overindulge, that there won't be any problem, usually... As they said, "Nope, no lowlife I put away years ago is going to shoot at me, unanswered, during my wedding." It's that "Better to be tried by six" thing - One beer (that's 12 Oz. not 128 Oz., OK? LOL) isn't a huge amount of ethanol. Laws usually exist because of that ONE idiot who cannot resist saying "Here, hold my beer", then drinking 4 MORE beers, and proceeding to injure themselves and 8 other people in spectacularly stupid ways, seems to me? If you refrain from being an IDIOT it helps :)

Also - I said "Only place I've gone where I'd NEED to be armed"; If you read that, you don't see me saying that was the only place I WAS armed... Just that the only place I could have felt "endangered"... But - Criminals are akin to Jackals, they're cowardly little snots for the most part, if you are living as a HUMAN and you face them, they will rarely stand up to you. (If they're on PCP or the like, that's not bravery tho, that's being LOONEY.) The weapon or martial arts training or whatever are for the rare occasions when they choose unwisely.

[44MAG#1]

Now alcohol is introduced into the equation. If you carry you don't drink. Not saying a glass of beer with a pizza or a meal will impair anyone that chooses to do so. The one beer guy wouldn't be as bad as some high strung Pepsi drinking nut.
There are going to be many variables that we could introduce and most of us know them. The subject is that no one knows what may happen all the time as far as where creeps will be or how they will react. I would rather have a gun with me as not have one. I wish I was as mind capable as some.

[35remington]

Sheesh, stay away from bars and alcohol while you are carrying. Modify your behavior for you own welfare. If your friends are drinking while carrying as well there is reason to question your judgement.

Going for a beer and a burger in a bar when carrying or consorting with a drinking bunch who are armed at a wedding is not clear thinking for anyone involved. Irresponsible as well as illegal are words that likely apply.

There is no way to come off looking good either morally or legally if such behavior occurs. Beware. A legal team would have a field day with you if any incident occurred while you were carrying and any amount of alcohol was in your system. Reasonable belief that some level of impairment was involved will give you problems.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I think the last time I was in a bar was about 25 years ago. This was just the "The heck with it, there are NO LEOs out there, even though they know there are predators picking on the sailors - It's the wild Northwest, and I'm sore and cranky" occasional beer with a meal. I'm 6'5" tall and - trust me - 1 beer is not going to put me in DUI territory nor impede my judgement to any real extent; Think of it as following the spirit if not the letter of the law. Also this was 30 years ago, when you are in your 20s you DO behave differently than when older. Some'd say "old enough to know better" but I just watch how THOSE folks behave and am dubious. They seem to behave far worse than I do!

The guy with me was NOT at said wedding. This was not carousing and chasing women, this was "Truck's broken, have to jackleg repair it then limp it back home then repair it." Long day, backed knuckles, sore muscles, and general grumpiness.

The cops that were at that wedding, well, let's just say they "Had Enemies" - If you had someone trying to kill you monthly, and were getting married, and were a cop, would you - what - Just call 911 if they showed up and started killing guests? There isn't really a force of Mormons who hire out as a group to attend weddings and so forth and guard the attendees so they can enjoy. I suspect a number of the attendees didn't drink, I just also suspect that a number did - Probably not to "too much" excess. Law is absolute but the real world isn't - What do you call a driver who never goes over the speed limit? Probably "ROAD HOG!" with the bird or the like included.

[35remington]

Sheesh, think about it. You’ve said enough already. Keeping quiet about indiscretions is almost as important as not committing them in the first place.

[EMC45]

Everywhere I go - I carry. Pocket auto, small revolver...Whatever. It rides and hides just fine and no one is the wiser. I follow all laws and conduct myself appropriately when out and about.

There have been several times where one of my kids or wife will ask "you have your gun right?" I just kind of snicker because I have it on me for sure.

I don't carry at work due to Fed policy.

[Gray Fox]

I'm fortunate to have a wife who knows I'm carrying, and is herself. Her usual comment is, "Let's keep going, I've got your back." Army trained and daughter of a judge, she has a pretty active view of her surroundings and life in general. GF

[Mr_Sheesh]

35remington - Is it somehow not OK with you if I participate, my way? The deal is, that in return you can participate your way.

You can assume that I still do things I did long ago, "might not" be an accurate assumption though.

Myself - I'd rather be around folks who will honestly state what's happened - and what they LEARNed from it - than never acknowledge that they've EVER done anything wrong, that anything they've done that wasn't PERFECT, seen them sell themselves that they are indeed perfect, and start trying to control everyone around them (Who better for that job, since they're perfect?) Family member had, I am pretty sure, a severe case of narcissism - I won't go there, bleah!

Not accusing you on that, I am just all too aware that there are people who will happily pretend to have never made a single mistake nor done a single wrong nor said a single unkind word EVER - And then run around telling everyone how THEY should run their own lives; Family member doing that doesn't come across as honest, genuine, or caring - It comes across more as an interrogation, which is a BALONEY default way to treat people. They don't seem to be learning though.

[35remington]

Sheesh, you are just not helping yourself talking about it further. It is time to quit already.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

0! ;)

[35remington]

Whoever decides they need to carry a primary piece and a backup gets no argument from me.

These days it is trendy for those that carry 15-odd shot pistols to declare they do not need a spare magazine, and nobody has reloaded in a CCW type shooting incident. Maybe so, but having an empty or mostly empty pistol after such an event occurs and before the police arrive does not strike me as a good thing. Sorta would give me a bad feeling.

My carry autoloaders all have safeties on the same spot on the pistol so operation is very similar for all.

[Mr_Sheesh]

35rem - If a MOD wants me to change what I do, they know how to reach me and discuss it with me. Otherwise - NO.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Yep those are good reasons to carry a 2nd weapon. Plus you can have one that's more a "Plinking" gun, and one that's more for serious social encounters. Fastest reload ever is drawing #2. And tho "usually" reloads aren't needed for even a revolver or 1911 ("Most frequent" shooting incident - at least some time ago, was 2.3 rounds fired at 21 feet or so, no one hit, and everyone LEFT afterwards...) - There are times that aren't that way at all. As I was training for running a rather rich gold mine, I was more thinking of clanking when I walked than of only carrying a pen knife :p Didn't happen but took the training to heart.