454424 and 45 Colt

[44MAG#1]

212210. Old 454424 and a loaded 45 Colt cartridge.

[smkummer]

I just loaded some but used the crimp groove, are you loading that in something that needs to be crimped that low? My guns are colts, SAA, New Service and Anaconda.

[birch]

I don't have the heart to tell him this, so could someone please PM 44mag and let him know there is no way in hell that second cartridge will fire in any weapon!!

[44MAG#1]

I am going to shoot it in a Ruger New Vaquero.

[T-Bird]

birch, that one's for "sling" shots!- DUH!

[44MAG#1]

The projectile pictured by the projectile loaded in a case, containing powder, powered by a primer, that has said bullet crimped over the leading edge of the front drive band, was cast in an old Ideal 454424 mold with the square lube groove with narrow drive bands, is for the visual depiction of an old 454424 for those that haven't seen one.
With the projectile not so depicted, it would be hard for someone to see through the case to see what it looks like with just the loaded cartridge shown.
Many old timers on here probably have seen the Ideal Bullet depicted but many, I would say, that are young timers that havent seen one of the 454424 bullets like this one.
Now Lyman has the 452424 that is not like the Ideal 454424 that is,pictured. I have an old Lyman that also has the 454424 that has the other shape of the two or three types Lyman has made.
That is the reason of the single unloaded 454424 that is beside the loaded one.

[ddixie884]

I think there are about 20 versions of that bullet. GLL has posted pictures of a line of the different versions.

[44MAG#1]

I think there are about 20 versions of that bullet. GLL has posted pictures of a line of the different versions.

I know there are more than three versions. I have four versions of Lyman's 454424 bullets myself.

[Don Purcell]

If I remember correctly in Keith's "Sixguns" there is a page with a lineup of a bunch of cast "boolits" and yours looks exactly like the 454424 pictured.

[44MAG#1]

If I remember correctly in Keith's "Sixguns" there is a page with a lineup of a bunch of cast "boolits" and yours looks exactly like the 454424 pictured.

Yes and that is an old photo.

[bluelund79]

Now that is one pretty boolit? Any idea of the approximate hardness? I love the Keith style boolits.

[44MAG#1]

I cast it from 90-5-5. AKA Lyman #2. 15 BHN or there about.

[Catshooter]

Nice looking boolit. Do the square corners make the boolit want to stay in the mould cavity?


Cat

[44MAG#1]

[QUOTE=Catshooter;4267788]Nice looking boolit. Do the square corners make the boolit want to stay in the mould cavity?/QUOTE]

Yes but not too bad.

[fcvan]

Looks like a fine boolit for sure. I was lucky enough to pick up an Old Vaquero that had never shot anything but wax. Unfortunately, the first owner changed the springs and lightened the action up a lot. I intend to replace with factory springs because the Old Vaquero I have in 38-40 is bone stock and fine by me. I had a bunch of molds for 45 ACP but nothing heavier than 230 so I picked up a Lee 452-255-RF and a Lee C452-300-RF. They shoot great from mild to wild loads from the Vaquero and a 20" single shot carbine. When I was still using lube (PC now) I would use soda can plain base gas checks on the 255. With PC I don't need gas checks and longer.

[44MAG#1]

I normally use the Mihec 270 SAA bullet. I normally use 2400 with a charge weight that was recommended to me by John Linebaugh. I was soundly corrected by the LDP of CBF for posting it so can't do that any more.
Also used a H110 load form the same source too but can't post it.
My gun is the New Vaquero.
The mold that cast this old 454424 is a one cavity so it is slow going as to casting. My Mihec is a 4 cavity.
And so it goes.

[MT Gianni]

I know there are more than three versions. I have four versions of Lyman's 454424 bullets myself.

On the old Sixgunners? site I once saw 9 different bullets each labelled 454424. Mine shoots well.

[jimb16]

I could see seating it like that for use in the Uberti 1873 Winchester clone. To seat it out too far causes feeding problems.

[sixshot]

Love that old 45 bullet!! And I have used it a lot.

Dick

[Tracy]

".45 COLT: Keith's early load was an extremely powerful 22.0 grains of #2400 again in balloon head cases. This was dropped to 20.0 grains and then to 18.5 grains in modern brass with all loads using the 260 grain #454424 Keith bullet. This is a 1150+ fps load and should be used only in modern .45 Colts. When the Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk came along, Elmer upped the charge to 20.0 grains of #2400 again for nearly 1250 fps from a 7 1/2" barrel."

Source: http://www.sixguns.com/range/elmersloads.htm

[Green Frog]

Where do the currently made Uberti SAA in 45 Colt fit on the spectrum of strength? Can they handle the Ruger level loads with their modern steels, or does the old design lower their overall strength potential? I’m using factory loads in mine, and will shoot some wax, but it doesn’t hurt to know. :coffeecom

Froggie

[nicholst55]

Where do the currently made Uberti SAA in 45 Colt fit on the spectrum of strength? Can they handle the Ruger level loads with their modern steels, or does the old design lower their overall strength potential? I’m using factory loads in mine, and will shoot some wax, but it doesn’t hurt to know. :coffeecom

Froggie

Standard SAAMI pressure loads. It's the design, not the steel that matters. Chamber walls are thin, especially under the cylinder bolt cutouts.

[44MAG#1]

"Where do the currently made Uberti SAA in 45 Colt fit on the spectrum of strength? Can they handle the Ruger level loads with their modern steels, or does the old design lower their overall strength potential? I’m using factory loads in mine, and will shoot some wax, but it doesn’t hurt to know. "


The Uberti should be able to handle the same loads a Colt can take. That means slightly +P. They are after all a clone. Now remember I am the one that many in here thinks doesn't know anything.
I assume you are familiar with the 45 Colt levels and realize that the +P is a relative term when referencing different guns.
If you don't know its time for more study.

[Bigslug]

Regardless of whether the nose fits a given cylinder, or how it feeds in a particular lever gun, I think 44MAG#1's seating over the front driving band makes a certain amount of sense. . .

It's a black powder cartridge with more case capacity than it needs for smokeless, unless we begin to talk about Rugers and Freedom Arms. Going that tenth inch deeper is probably going to help with a cleaner burn of whatever it is you're using. Plus, the round was intended to kill horses; do we really NEED to load it hotter?

[9.3X62AL]

Plus, the round was intended to kill horses; do we really NEED to load it hotter?

Not just kill horses, but shoot through the mount and inflict casualty status on the "hostile" using said mount for cover. The 45 Colt in black-powder form was and is a powerful sideiron.

For a time I had in 45 Colt both a Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5" and a Uberti Cattleman x 4.75". I test-loaded both #454190 and #454424 (crimped with shoulder exposed) using Unique powder, and in the Ruger I got both bullets to the 1000 FPS level with 10.0 grains of Unique. This is certainly a +P load, if current published 45 Colt data is your barometer. I ran about 150 of these loads through the lighter & smaller Uberti, and they bucked and snorted a bit while giving 890-910 FPS. Most of the cases slipped from the chambers with gate opened and muzzle up. FWIW.

This 10.0 x Unique and its clone 11.0 x Herco have become my everyday load in the Bisley 45 Colt with both bullet designs. In the big Ruger the bucking and snorting is subdued, and I have cast 20 of the #454190s as Bruce B Softpoints for deer hunting with. I opted for the "190" over the SWC because that round flatnose loads more easily through the SAA gate with cold fingers than does the SWC. I used a pure-lead RCBS 32-100-SWC as donor slug for the front portion of the BBSP.