Aluminum vs Iron for a beginner caster

[jamesp81]

I am still new to this. I have a few molds, most are Lee. I have one Accurate 5-cavity that is very nicely made.

Is it possible I've stunted my learning by using Aluminum? I find that I can never keep the temperature right. I'm either too frosty or wrinkled...or I've got hot and cold spots.

Would iron, with it's more even heat retention, be easier for an inexperienced caster to refine his talent with?

[Yodogsandman]

Yes, I believe that iron molds are less touchy. Aluminum molds aren't that bad, though. Using a hot plate to pre-heat your mold would make a huge difference. Keep casting without checking or inspecting your bullets until you notice that they start to frost over. Then you can relax a little and keep an even cadence going. Good luck!

[Rcmaveric]

I mostly use aluminum molds. You are right that they aren't the most temp stable. I dip the corner of the mold in the melt for 20 seconds to warm it. Then I have a wet sponge that I tap the mold to every 2 or 3 cast. I watch how long it takes the sprue to solidify. I will fall into a tempo. I got a couple iron molds a couple months back. I find they take longer to warm up but its much easier to keep slow steady tempo to keep the mold temp stable. I don't have to tap it on a wet sponge to keep it from getting too hot. I don't think its a short coming to use aluminum. For the price of lee molds, it is a great starting point. Principles are still the same. Once your good with that mold you will be good with iron molds after a slight adjustment. I do want to try a brass mold though.

Took me almost a year before I learned how to get consistent shiny bullets. I cast fast until I can work the sprue with a gloved hand. Then adjust the tempo to keep about at that zone.

[fcvan]

I use both iron and aluminum molds, and a Lee 10lb 'drip-o-matic.' I made a lip for the furnace from a tin can lid which covers the top but has a cutout for the operating rod. As I am heating up the pot, I place the molds (iron or Al.) on the lid so when the melt is at temp, so are the molds. While casting, I place an ingot on the top edge so it is preheating before it goes in the pot. I know my mold temp is right when the sprue cools in 3-5 seconds when casting with only one mold. When using 2 molds, I turn up the heat a bit and alternate molds. BTW, I do have a lead thermometer but cast for 40 years without one. It turns out I was getting the temps I wanted by eye for all these years.

As far as the 'drip-o-matic' part, I learned from a few folks here. Every once in a while, I will cast about 5 lbs and then drop the last 5 lbs into ingots and let the pot cool. It doesn't take long when it is empty. Anyway, I fill the pot 1/3 with water and tun it back on. It doesn't take long for the water to heat up after which I just drain the water. The steam and hot water in the pot helps get rid of residual crud. I maybe do this every 100lbs of casting or so. I started fluxing a long while ago using used ground walnut from my tumbler. It gives me a good flux, and the impurities seem to bond with the ash from the walnut nicely. It also doesn't seem to stick as much to the operating rod and travel down to the spout. I also keep a safety pin with a right angle bend at the tip as a spigot tool. That works pretty dandy.

[lightman]

I always felt that iron molds were more forgiving and easier to cast with. I would not say that you stunted your learning but you may have had some difficulties that discouraged you. But if you learned how to cast good bullets with an aluminum mold then you will be amazed when you try an iron mold.

[Wayne Smith]

... and then you haven't lived well until you get a brass mold!

[OS OK]

I don't think it makes any difference at all...starting with steel or aluminum.
You have several aspects to learn about casting, have to learn what effect each has on the pot, the mould and what that does to the casts.
* You must manage the pot temp...prolly one of the most difficult things to relate to casting. It's not just 'too hot or too cold', depends on the particular mould and whether or not it is rifle or pistol cast and how many cavities. Moulds are heat sinks & don't behave exactly the same.
Pot management requires adjustment of the heat control knob as the pot empties...you need an accurate thermometer for that. Pot temperature tends to swing slowly and then overshoot the desired temperature because of the nature of heat transfer. So...that means 'staying ahead' of the temperature somewhat. You'll see.

At first it may be a bit overwhelming because we tend to focus on the spout, filling the mould and the sprue...meanwhile we casually look up and the pot is headed over 800*F. ! Dang, what's going on here?

* Managing the mould temperature manages the 3~5 second 'freeze time' of the sprue. This just means having your cadence at a rate that allows the heat you just poured into the mould to bleed off by 100*F. or so. If it doesn't bleed off into the atmosphere or a damp cloth or into another means, it'll just remain in the mould. Sprues will take longer to freeze and eventually you'll open the mould before the casts are set and frozen...you generally only do that once though ;) . I like to set my mould on that big aluminum base of the Lee pot, that'll suck the heat right out of the mould quick. After the sprue freezes, it still sits there for a couple of seconds as I reach to pick it up...that's part of the 'pace' you'll develop for yourself.

I could go on and on so I'll stop here...basically it's about observing, watching and relating 'what causes what'...for instance, if your cast go from shiny to frosty, look at the thermometer...how hot is it that causes frosty in 'this mould'...remember that. That particular mould will react the same time after time so long as you don't change any other aspects like casting in freezing weather or a blistering hot day or in front of a fan.

Every little detail relates to everything else...the better you understand that the sooner you will be able to pull a mould from the stable and cast good cast right off the bat.

[rdwarrior]

I have a brass mold coming in from MP - right now the only mold I have is iron. What is the learning curve going to be with a brass mold? New to casting after a 45+ year break. Only used a friends iron mold back in early 70's.

[farmerjim]

I learned on iron, It took a while to learn to use Al. I now prefer Al as it is much lighter and comes in 6 cavity for speed.
Get a hot plate to preheat your mold. It works much better than setting on top of the pot, of dipping the mold.

[Reddirt62]

Right! The main difference you will notice after an hour or so of casting is the weight! A lifetime of casting with either iron or brass will make for some mighty strong wrists!! Enjoy!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[stubshaft]

I don't think it makes any difference at all...starting with steel or aluminum.


I agree. I currently have 67 molds in various calibers, manufacturers and block type. I still have the first mold I ever cast with, which is a single cavity Lee 30-150F circa 1969. I have never "worn out" a mold and generally prefer aluminum for long casting sessions. I think that Miha's and Al's molds are works of art and have a couple of new ones on order from each of them. The point being that each type of mold may require an adjustment to the manner in which you cast. There is a learning process (at least for me) to each mold. The molds that get the least use from me are the steel Lymans. They are the most tempermental.

[longbow]

My personal preference is iron for moulds. I grew up casting with iron moulds and just plain like it. However, I have aluminum, brass and iron moulds. All three materials work just fine.

Lee aluminum moulds are quite soft and can be easily damaged if you don't treat them fairly gently but in my opinion that is the only downside. NOE aluminum is high quality but still soft compared to iron or brass.

Of course all moulds should be treated gently in use... don't beat on them! Don't slam them shut! Clean them off and store them properly when you are done casting.

I only have four Lee moulds currently but all work well and cast as they are supposed to. I did have to "Leement" two of them but a minor issue in my opinion. They cast just fine now.

I think aluminum heats up faster and is a little less stable but you take care of that by casting at a steady cadence and cooling the mould if required as OS OK says above.

If I had to pick one material it would be iron but all three work for me.

Longbow

[MyFlatline]

I started with aluminum and have never felt a need to change. I think it is more preference than anything. Frosty bullets don't bother me. Most all mine are frosty, I have to cast a bit hotter do to the copper in the mix..

[dkf]

I like to cast fast so I use mostly aluminum molds, they shed heat quicker for fast casting. I have a bunch of iron and brass molds (actually have an iron mold on the way as I type) and they cast well, aluminum just suits me better. If you delve into iron molds just store them right or you will get rust, you can be surprised how fast they can build it. It always helps if you can control your mold temperature. Find a casting pace and melt temperature that yields good bullets and try to hold both consistently as possible.

[Boolseye]

I learned on a 6-cav Lee. Didn’t stunt my growth any.

[ShooterAZ]

I have all three, aluminum, iron & brass. All work well for me, but for quality boolits the iron molds from RCBS are hard to beat. Yeah, only 2 cavity, but I'll take quality over quantity every time.

[country gent]

Aluminum is good you just need to experiment with temp and cadence more you will find what they like. Sometimes casting with 2 moulds together smooths out the temp swings some. It gives the blocks a little time to dissipate the heat and allows them to stay at an even temp thru. Iron moulds are good and again take some experimentation to find the way. Brass moulds at e the least finiky I have cast with as far as cadence and temps. Once up to temp brass stays there much easier.

Experiment with alloy temps adjusting up or down as needed not changing your cadence. A lead thermometer is handy here to know what temps your running. A hot plate to pre heat moulds on is also a plus. Having them warmed starting out makes a big difference. Again the lead thermometer can be a plus here to know the blocks temp. Ussually in the 350-400* range is a good starting point.

Once the correct temp is found. experiment with cadence casting faster and slower to smooth things out more. Also try using to moulds together.Cdence and a pause time can ake a big difference.

Keep in mind heat cycling a mould to 400*-450*and allowing it to cool 3-4 times helps to break it in. It burns any remaining contaminants out of the blocks and helps to establish the patina that helps a mould to cast good bullets.Other wise the blocks may fight you for 3-4 sessions while it breaks in.

A stenogrophers notebook and notes on what works and didn't for each mould can be a help starting out. It allows you to track and sort everything done.

[RogerDat]

I would go with aluminum. Lee is a good place to start, weight and price favor them. Get a hot plate and a thermometer that goes to 1000 so you can monitor your lead in the melter. I have at least one Lee mold for anything I would reload. NOE (Al's) has some nicer molds than Lee's and offers some additional choices such as hollow point or hollow base, sizes suited to worn military bores, plain base & gas check in same mold etc. His 4 cavities are a nice balance between weight and productivity. Heavy stuff even the three cavity are 50% more productive than a two cavity. Don't have any MP's molds but they are supposed to be very nice.

What happened with me is I got the Lee's for revolver calibers and then an NOE or two for less common sizes and weights in rifle. Heavy .223 and oversized for a 303 Enfield. Then a WC mold was for sale that was iron and I got that, and then a shotgun slug mold also iron and then some Lee's in rifle and then.... back to NOE for a group buy on a .32 ACP mold. In short they all make bullets, I have to manage the same variables of speed, temp, and pour rate to make any of them work. They are different as described by others but all of them can serve to cast lead alloy into fun stuff.

If you consider you can be casting for .45 .38 and 30 caliber for less than $60 in two cavity molds you can see why many find a reason to buy the Lee's and if your gun likes the bullet their 6 cavity is a good deal.

[john.k]

A good iron mold is great,but no matter how good,if you cast big bullets,the long cooling period really slows you down.....if you get impatient,you end up with bent bullets.I think I cast say 45/450gn twice as quick with a al mold.......but I dont buy any ali molds at iron prices......

[Drew P]

Had my most trouble with my premium brass mold. I like aluminum best.

[gwpercle]

I believe iron is a little more forgiving for the beginner.
I learned on 1 and 2 cavity Lyman's. The much cheaper Lee's came out and I started using them.
Lot's of tricks to learn with them.
Graduated to a few NOE Aluminum moulds...3 and 4 cavity , still a few tricks in casting but the quality is off the chart.
I have never tried brass. And I do not have any 6 cavity moulds.
All of them have learning curves...the only way to learn is to cast boolits. You have a problem, ask for an answer. You can cast good boolits with any mould but you are going to have to put in the time over a hot pot learning what works and what doesn't.
The brand or material of the mould isn't going to make you a great caster. Iron is harder to damage, can take a bit of rough handling and might be preferred for the beginner, but a nice NOE can be a pleasure to cast with. Aluminum and brass is softer so easier to damage...be gentle with them.
Gary

[john.k]

The trouble with beginner equiptment is that many beginners have no mechanical experience whatso ever........they cant tell if a screw is coming loose,or if soft metal is being damaged by what they are doing,until the thing is wrecked......Lee molds need a lot of attention ,and fall to bits without it....Iron or steel molds are better built,and the harder surfaces resist abuse .And the higher price buys improvements like locking screws,.....and better handles......which are extra cost on iron molds.

[jamesp81]

I don't know now. I might give iron a try. I've got Lee and one Accurate mold, all aluminum. I think I have trouble regulating temperature. My belief is that I need cooler melt and a hotter mold compared to what I've been doing.

I need a PID for my pot. I cannot bring myself to spend well over $100 for one when my lead pot cost 1/3 of that.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I get the feeling that a big part of the challenge is the alloy that you are using. Scrounged lead is probably more difficult than virgin alloy. I did about 500 boolits yesterday out of a Lee 6 cav and managed to not have one reject. All shiny and nary a wrinkle. Preheated the mold and paused a while before cutting the sprue. But I am using virgin 16/1 alloy. Pot temp ran from 700 to 750. Added sprues to bring temps down. I also try to keep the pour rate optimal, fast but controllable.

Got and rcbs iron 2 cav coming tomorrow - 250 gr. Keith style in .44.

[RogerDat]

I don't know now. I might give iron a try. I've got Lee and one Accurate mold, all aluminum. I think I have trouble regulating temperature. My belief is that I need cooler melt and a hotter mold compared to what I've been doing.

I need a PID for my pot. I cannot bring myself to spend well over $100 for one when my lead pot cost 1/3 of that.

I get what you mean, I keep thinking I want a PID and then stop and consider how much do I "really" need one and the cost.

Do you have a thermometer to measure the temperature in the pot? That helped me adjust the melt temperature to match my casting rhythm and provided one more real metric that I could adjust. Since I use a ladle I have been known to pour a little lead along the side of the mold if I think the mold is too cool, or dip a corner of the mold into the melt, that raises the mold temp fast.

I bought this one for $22 also available from Amazon. https://www.teltru.com/p-272-big-green-egg-primo-komodo-grill-dome-or-other-kamado-style-replacement-thermometer-lt225r-5-inch-stem-2001000-degrees-f.aspx Or the Lyman one which seems about the same for a bit more $$ https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-2867793-Casting-Thermometer/dp/B001TQ8Y6Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1517316497&sr=8-1&keywords=Lyman+lead+thermometer

[Mxrick55555]

I started with the LEE 6 cavity molds by the time I figured out what I was doing I had 2 6 cavity molds for each caliber I cast and an old electric flat griddle to set them and the lead ingots on for pre heating and to help keep a constant temp. I would get the molds up to temp, cast in one set it down cast in the other set it down pick up the previous and the sprue would be ready to cut drop bullets and repeat, this worked best for me as I have twin 4 year olds so the faster I could get it done the better. I now have a magma master caster recently acquired but loving it so far. When I get home from work I turn it on sneak out to the shop about 40 min later and cast what I can then usually the wife will call me back in and a little later I can sneak back out and cast some more. Not to mention when my ADD cousin comes over to visit on the weekends I make sure it’s ready to go he really seems to enjoy pulling that handle lol.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

are frosty boolits ok? I seem to find they fill out better than shiny boolits... but others say that the alloy is too hot if your boolits are frosty?

[rintinglen]

With aluminum molds, I find frosting is essential to the consistent casting of good Boolits. Back to the OP's question, yes, Virginia, iron is easier to learn to cast on.

[ukrifleman]

I have Lee, RCBS and Lyman moulds and they all produce good bullets when used properly.

I prefer Lee aluminium moulds because they heat up quicker and they are lighter to use.

Nothing wrong with frosted bullets, it's not vital to produce bullets that look like they are chrome plated.

ukrifleman

[gwpercle]

I don't know now. I might give iron a try. I've got Lee and one Accurate mold, all aluminum. I think I have trouble regulating temperature. My belief is that I need cooler melt and a hotter mold compared to what I've been doing.

I need a PID for my pot. I cannot bring myself to spend well over $100 for one when my lead pot cost 1/3 of that.
No you don't NEED a PID to cast good boolits ....I cast good boolits and have been doing so for over 50 years and guess what....I do not have or ever will have a PID. I just don't see the need .
I use a 20 lb. Lee Magnum Melter, set the Lee dial at number 7.50 or 8.00 to start with , when boolits start getting frosty I back the dial down, usually finish casting at #7.25 on the Lee dial. I've used these numbers with 3 different Lee pots. I like them cast with a very light overall frosty look to them...everything's up to temperature then and you just have to watch how fast you cast...go too fast and things get too hot and the sprue doesn't cool enough to cut. Go too slow and the mould starts cooling off too much...nobody is going to say this casting thing is easy...it's not.
You can cast good boolits also , fire up the pot and practice, pay attention to what's happening.
I don't even use a hot plate...mould heats on top of pot and with a few cast boolits poured is ready to go.
Those boolits go back into the pot.
Spending money on gizmo's isn't going to make you a good boolit caster....casting will do that .
Gary

[john.k]

Ive been casting 50 years,and I was running too low a temp......still turned out tons of good bullets tho,...anyhoo,I was given a laser thermo,run the temp up about +70 degF,and now I find I dont have the problem with fuzz forming and blocking the Lyman ladle .....which was banged off frequently......Lee say to dip the mold in melt,that works 100% in a few seconds......I have cast with Lee molds straight from the box,no cleaning needed..........but a simple rule with casting.....the lighter bullets will cause trouble....casting 22s will drive you crazy....any child can cast 45/400gn ,as the mold heat is maintained.

[marek313]

No you don't NEED a PID to cast good boolits ....I cast good boolits and have been doing so for over 50 years and guess what....I do not have or ever will have a PID. I just don't see the need .
I use a 20 lb. Lee Magnum Melter, set the Lee dial at number 7.50 or 8.00 to start with , when boolits start getting frosty I back the dial down, usually finish casting at #7.25 on the Lee dial. I've used these numbers with 3 different Lee pots. I like them cast with a very light overall frosty look to them...everything's up to temperature then and you just have to watch how fast you cast...go too fast and things get too hot and the sprue doesn't cool enough to cut. Go too slow and the mould starts cooling off too much...nobody is going to say this casting thing is easy...it's not.
You can cast good boolits also , fire up the pot and practice, pay attention to what's happening.
I don't even use a hot plate...mould heats on top of pot and with a few cast boolits poured is ready to go.
Those boolits go back into the pot.
Spending money on gizmo's isn't going to make you a good boolit caster....casting will do that .
Gary

:goodpost:
I agree with everything stated above.
I even put together PID to see how that would work and now i dont even use it. I never finished installing it in an enclosure anyway. Trust me you dont need it. You can make science out of it but for ordinary home caster I wouldnt bother. There are many variables here and mold material is just one of those. How about number of cavities , cavity size, alloy composition, mold temp, alloy temp, outside temp etc etc etc you get the idea. This is why I consider casting half skill and half art. Skills you can learn how to control temp and timing your sprue cuts etc but the other half is pure art which I cant even explain. How come one day I cant get a decent 45acp out of my mold and couple nights later I was up until 3am because I couldnt stop casing perfect boolits so almost 50lbs got converted to 452-230RN.

The best thing about casting is that even if you screw up your not wasting any material, just remelt and try again. You got nothing to lose :castmine::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[Char-Gar]

I started casting in 1959 when only iron molds were available. My first aluminium mold was an NEI some 25 years later. I now own molds of iron, brass and aluminum and move between them with no problems. Each has it's quirks, but if you have casting down, the change of material is quite easy.

[RogerDat]

I started casting in 1959 when only iron molds were available. My first aluminium mold was an NEI some 25 years later. I now own molds of iron, brass and aluminum and move between them with no problems. Each has it's quirks, but if you have casting down, the change of material is quite easy. Dang Char-Gar you HAVE been doing this awhile. Guess you must enjoy it. Or just too stubborn to give up on it.
If you have any of your original equipment around it's only a few years from being able to retire and collect social security.

:kidding:

[gwpercle]

are frosty boolits ok? I seem to find they fill out better than shiny boolits... but others say that the alloy is too hot if your boolits are frosty?
A lightly frosted is OK. You want them right at the light frost temperature...so they have a matte finish, just above shiney.
They seem to fill out best and be the most consistent ...I've never tried casting much over that temperature but I'm sure an extremely high temperature would not help a boolit....might make it brittle but I really don't know.
Gary