Speaking of AR's, best dies?

[Murphy]

Need to order some dies for my Homeland Security Rifle.

I'm a total newbie to loading for the AR15, but do know I'll be using a small base die.

Taper crimp or roll crimp into the cannelure?

All input will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Murphy

[pincherpartner]

Welcome to the club, the AR club that it is.

I've had good luck with the Lee dies and for an extra measure of security I use their factory crimp die to crimp the case into the cannelure. When I was originally working up loads and testing variables it seemed like the crimped on bullets had smaller groups. I'm guessing because of a more consistent starting pressure since I was seating to a shorter OAL rather than just shy of the rifling. Your results may vary.

If you don't like Lee, then any of the die companies that you prefer should have a good choice. I'd still probably do the crimping in a separate step.

It's a great easy gun to reload for since there is no op rod to worry about bending.

[garandsrus]

Murphy,

Which AR did you buy? What chamber does it have?

You should not need small base die's for an AR-15. The two I have are target models and have a Wylde chamber.

Most of the bullets I use don't have a cannelure so they don't get crimped. The bullets that do have one still don't get crimped. The neck tension should be enough to hold the bullet in place.

I use standard RCBS dies and have been happy with them. I did invest in a micrometer seater because I shoot 69, 77, and 80 gr bullets at different OAL's. I wanted to be able to easily return to a previous setting.

John

[mike in co]

Need to order some dies for my Homeland Security Rifle.

I'm a total newbie to loading for the AR15, but do know I'll be using a small base die.

Taper crimp or roll crimp into the cannelure?

All input will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Murphy

if the brass has been fired in your chamber, you do not have need of a small base die. if you use some range pickup brass, you MAY need a small base die. you will not know till you have used a std die and the brass is too big on the base. you only use the small base die once on each pc of brass fired from another gun that when sized in a std die does not allow the bolt to close. from then on a std die is used. i have seven ar 15's and 2 ar 10's..the only one's that get true fl sizing are the benchrest 6ppc and 308 win br.

do not do what the die instructions say to do. size 2/3 thou below your chamber/shoulder.

i use redding, but i have a bonanza br seater and a redding comp seater, neck dies, fl dies...

i currently crimp none of my 223 ammo.........aproc .003 neck tension and no bullet movement.

i know people that do, they always want to know why my gun shoots so well. draw your own conclusions.
tell us specifics about your rifle.....twist, length, what to you plan to do with it.

mike in co
aka
ar10ar15man

[Sprue]

Personal preference on the dies, you won't need the Small Base. As for crimping its a personal thing as well. What ever floats your boat, you will find what works best. If you don't have a primer pocket swager you had best get one now. RCBS works for me.

Myself I do crimp in separate stages using the Lee Factory Crimp Die- cannelure or not, but you got to be careful and not apply too much pressure or you will deform the jacket/bullet. Seems that sizing is best with a little lube just inside the case neck- spray lube.

The heavier bullets 68/9 gr shoot best for my 1/9 bbl.

[EMC45]

I always used RCBS standard dies. I also didn't crimp either. They all shot fine and accurate.

[Slogg76]

I bought a set of Lee Pace Setter dies just because of their factory crimp die. My Stag Arms carbine has a 5.56 NATO chamber and all my ammo functions just fine using the standard full length sizer in the Lee die set. I've used it with all kinds of different brass from once-fired brass ordered from brassman to stuff I picked up at the range and no problems. I crimp some, don't crimp others. So far my rifle likes 55 grain bullets (1 in 9" twist) and shoots Nosler 55 grain BT's without a crimp best followed by Hornady 55 grain spire points with a crimp.
I think just about any .223 die set from any manufacture (unless you do need small base dies) would be okay, I just happen to like Lee crimp dies and their price is attractive as well.

[Doc Highwall]

I use the Redding full length S Bushing dies. For a semi auto I size the case .003-.004 smaller then the fired head space dimension. This dimension is measured with the stony point head space gage (now owned by hornady) and you use a separate bushing in the die to control neck tension. I also have the carbide expander ball upgrade. Sinclair is one of the places that sell Redding equipment.

[Murphy]

Thanks for the replies guys,

As for the rifle, it's a Bushmaster Superlight with a 16" barrel, 1/9 twist. A3 top so I can scope it for testing or other uses.

I've bought 2000 rounds of OFB off Gunbroker and will be working with it (L.C. brass).

I also picked up 2000 rounds of 'J' word pull down bullets in M193 configuration. I figure to build some 'SHTF' ammo and will also be loading some soft points for use with the scope for hunting various critters.

Murphy

[Larry Gibson]

Murphy

No need for SB dies with that rifle, it will have a standard 5.56 chamber. I'll recommend the regular RCBS X-die. I've been using it for some years with ARs and Mini14s. Sizes the case as well as any other die and with the X-die properly set up you won't ever have to trim the cases and case life will be very long. If you do get the X-Die I'll also suggest (if you are using new or once fired cases) that you skip the initial trim step in the directions and just set the die with the once fired cases. I did that and have changed the die adjustment since.

Larry Gibson

[August]

I've used regular Hornady die set with total success and satisfaction.

[Heavy lead]

Ditto With August Hornady New Dimension No Problems

[Baron von Trollwhack]

As I have several 223s I have many die sets and shellholders. It would amaze you to measure the dimensional differences these dies and shellholders cause in cases with regards to base sizing, neck sizing, shoulder sizing, and case headspace when set up touching the shell holder. I would recommend the Lee collet neck sizing die, the Redding body die, and the RCBS micrometer seating die, perhaps a bushing neck die and a shell holder selected by actual measuring as having the ability to produce first class ammo. BvT

[EMC45]

Just loaded some 80gr. Hornady HPs for the Handi in 223. Need to see they do.

[shooterg]

You MAY need to small base size Lake City brass the first time through, if you have a tight chamber and the LC was most likely fired full-auto. But, hey, if they run after sizing through the cheapest dies you can find at the gun show, shoot 'em !

[madcaster]

I have been thinking of getting one as well,maybe it will be loaded from the muzzle though![smilie=1:

[ForneyRider]

I went with Lee deluxe rifle die set. Full-length die, neck-sizer die, and dead-length bullet seater die(no crimp).

I got the RCBS primer pocket swager for primer crimped brass.

I haven't crimped any of my .223. I noticed my Federal (LC) 55 JHP bulk ammo had no crimp.

I have mostly Lee loading stuff, and some RCBS stuff. I like the Lee for its affordability, ease of use, and etc. I am contemplating getting some RCBS or Redding dies, as I am not getting the consistency/quality I want.

[jonk]

I'm fairly convinced that the basic Lee die set and the basic RCBS die set are of similar quality. You go up to the Reddings or one of the match grade die sets from anyone you may see an improvement- however the AR, great gun though it may be, is what it is; a very accurate gun, but still essentially a combat rifle. Yes, you should be able to get MOA or slightly better but it is no bench rest rifle and the 223 is, while very accurate, not a pure target round.

A lee die is certainly able to deliver 1 MOA.

Just my 2 cents.

[mike in co]

I'm fairly convinced that the basic Lee die set and the basic RCBS die set are of similar quality. You go up to the Reddings or one of the match grade die sets from anyone you may see an improvement- however the AR, great gun though it may be, is what it is; a very accurate gun, but still essentially a combat rifle. Yes, you should be able to get MOA or slightly better but it is no bench rest rifle and the 223 is, while very accurate, not a pure target round.

A lee die is certainly able to deliver 1 MOA.

Just my 2 cents.


i would have to disagree with the possibilties of the ar15's( we will skip my br converted ar's for now)

you can buy anything from a chrome lined battle ar15 that will hopefully shoot 1-2 moa with production ammo, BUT you can buy over the counter competition rifles that will easily shoot 1/2 moa out of the box with competition production ammo or hand loaded ammo; and several makers offer varmit rifles.....these vary from run of the mill ar's with a label on them, to full blown sub moa rifles...often tunable to less than 1/2 moa.

as far as 223 being a pure target round.....guess that depends on your definition of "pure". it is an improvement of the 222 rem, not a target round initially but dominated br for years.
things like the 6mm ppc usa is supposedly a pure target round, but it is not used much in competition...as the 6mm ppc is used in variations( there is a difference in 6ppc and 6ppc usa).

my ar15 223 rem is 26" hart bbl, 1/14 twist. short throat 36x luepold br scope. 52/53 gr bullets. i'm currently shooting sub .2 inch groups in br competition....is that good enough for you .

mike

[sg5054]

+10 for the rcbs x dies. very happy with the results. I plan on getting the for 3006 and 8mm Mauser shortly.

[oneokie]

Murphy, have you considered a custom set of dies? Most of the die makers will make you a custom sizer die if you send them 3 fired cases. Going this route will cut down on overworking the brass.

Been hanging out in chat with the enablers too much.

[Murphy]

Don't really think I would benefit enough to justify the cost for custom dies. I'm just looking for your average accuracy with handloads.

If I were working towards a high end target gun, I would perhaps consider the investment.

Thanks,

Murphy

[clodhopper]

I like the Hornady die with the titanium nitrate neck expander. RCBS precison case mike very useful for die set up.
But I'm just a lowly sharpshooter at HP service rifle. Right now my vision, and being a butthead about sight adjustment are holding me back.
The rifle and ammo are much better than the operator.