Reduced .375 H&H loads

[Texas by God]

I'm going to load some reduced recoil rounds using the 300 gr btsp Hornady bullet. I'm wanting to use H4895, IMR 4198, or should I go with Unique or Red Dot? I'm looking for about 1500 to 1700 fps. Anyone with experience here?
Thanks!

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[Outpost75]

Very satisfactory is #375449 cast of COWW, air cooled, no GC, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, sized .379", loaded with 12-13 grains of either Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X, TiteGroup or Clays. No filler is needed. Either standard or magnum primers fine. Approximates .38-55 Winchester velocity, good woods deer load, also effective on African plains game such as Impala. light recoil, accurate, fun to shoot. My friends and I have shot thousands of rounds of this load in a variety of rifles over at least 20 years with great results. PH friend in SA has killed literal truckloads of game with it for biltong.

[Texas by God]

Thanks, Outpost75! Is it ok to substitute the jacketed bullet? I'm not casting for it yet.

[Outpost75]

Ci
Thanks, Outpost75! Is it ok to substitute the jacketed bullet? I'm not casting for it yet.


Would not use the 300-grain jacketed, but the 235 Speer or 270-grain SPs, velocity will be lower with jacketed bullet, probably below 1200 fps, due to increased bore drag. Don't go below 13 grains with jacketed, as you might stick a bullet in the barrel!

OK to increase charge with 235 Speer up to 16 grains of the fast-burners, as needed for best grouping or 14 grains with 270-grain SP, or with #375449 if gaschecked.

You can use commercial cast .38-55 Laser-cast or Meister 250-255 grain bullets with the 12-13 grain load for about 1350 fps. Bullet diameter IS important, especially with the commercial hard-cast, or they will lead! Use the largest bullet which chambers and extracts without telescoping into the case or debulleting a loaded round upon extraction...Seat cast bullets so the bullet base does NOT protrude below the neck. For best results do a pound-cast of chamber and buy or size your bullets to FIT BALL SEAT!

IGNORE groove diameter of the barrel! Meaningless poppycock!

Everyone please drive a wooden stake through the heart of THAT corrupted lot of misinformation!

ONLY THROAT SIZE MATTERS in rifles or revolvers!

Of the dozen or so .375 rifles we've shot these loads in ONLY ONE required .377" cast bullets.

That one was a custom job with [in my opinion] a "too tight" chamber which was VERY finicky on loads.

You don't want a tight "target" chamber on a heavy caliber rifle which might potentially be used on dangerous game, such as the North American great bears.

Normal cast bullet diameter for the .38-55 is .379-.380" and we have found that SOFT 10-12 BHN bullets of .379" diameter work in the great majority of factory .375 H&H rifles with common sporting chambers. If you have a rifle which has been shot a great deal, enough that it shows throat erosion, then YOU WILL need .380"!

I know only two people who have actually worn out .375 barrels actually by game shooting with them. One was the late Col. Gregory Kalnitzky and the other was the late Arvid Benson. Both of those rifles ended up in Texas after these great hunters and members of Safari Club International passed. I know that one rifle still kills deer and hogs regularly with these cast loads. That wise inheritor set up a Dillon machine to crank out .375 cast loads by the multiple hundreds and bought both his boys .375s upon high school graduation, because they "needed no other big game rifle." They have since worked their way up to the "75% load" of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget with the 235 Speer as their deer and elk load. Recoil is manageable and both rifles are stone killers.

[35 shooter]

I have zero experience with the 375, BUT.... with the 4895, anything below about 80% case fill i'd use a dacron filler.
I had hangfires in both winter and summer with that powder when working up reduced cast loads in the 35 whelen.

When i put the filler in those same loads, the hangfires went away, and accuracy was greatly improved
(Thanks Larry Gibson).
I was down around the "suggested" 60% reduction area with h4895 when the hangfires began.
80% casefill and up was no problem without fillers with that powder.

I totally agree with no need for the filler with bullseye, reddot, unique, and like powders.

[Outpost75]

I have zero experience with the 375, BUT.... with the 4895, anything below about 80% case fill i'd use a dacron filler.
I had hangfires in both winter and summer with that powder when working up reduced cast loads in the 35 whelen.

When i put the filler in those same loads, the hangfires went away, and accuracy was greatly improved
(Thanks Larry Gibson).
I was down around the "suggested" 60% reduction area with h4895 when the hangfires began.
80% casefill and up was no problem without fillers with that powder.

I totally agree with no need for the filler with bullseye, reddot, unique, and like powders.

35 Shooter is Correct! Use Dacron filler with the 75% loads in the .375 or in any case of .30-'06 size or larger.

[Texas by God]

Thanks guys for the great info. However I'm going to use the 300 gr jacketed bullets because that's what I have. That's what I asked about in tbe op. Maybe 75% of the listed starting load for H4895 with filler? Magnum primer?

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[Outpost75]

Thanks guys for the great info. However I'm going to use the 300 gr jacketed bullets because that's what I have. That's what I asked about in tbe op. Maybe 75% of the listed starting load for H4895 with filler? Magnum primer? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Magnum primer and filler is good to ensure full ignition with the 75% load.

[Chill Wills]

Can I send you some cast bullets? Maybe a lot of them? We can trade for the jacketed ones at some rate you think is fair?
I have a number of really great designs made by LBT and others. One PP spitzer bullet too I load 60 grs of IMR 3031 behind. Great bullet.

I will push the jacketed ones at safe full loads and hunt with them.

[Texas by God]

Thanks for the offer Chill Wills (I remember him!) But this project is happening tomorrow. I might like to barter for boolits in the future, though.
Thomas

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[Larry Gibson]

Texas by God

I'm only going to make a suggestion and highly recommend you exercise due caution because I have not down loaded three six bit cartridges with jacketed bullets, especially 300 gr ones. Were I to try for a load in the velocity range you want that I would load 36 - 40 gr 4895 and use a dense Dacron filler that is compressed......not tightly packed.

Again, just a suggestion here as it appears you're going to want to do this. Be careful and be especially watchful for any sign, no matter how small, of a hang fire.....a click.....bang. If you get that at all stop, don't shoot any more. Be careful.

[Texas by God]

Thank you. I have exerienced hangfires with .358 Norma before and pulled down the ammo. I reprimed with magnum primers and used quilt batting to hold the powder down. Just 2-300 fps less than buffalo loads is probably where I'll end up. I have many loading manuals to cross check everything with.

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[Texas by God]

I found this in an old DuPont guide.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180115/40d54a6c349946878331de1adc8fd3b0.jpg

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[RickinTN]

I just dug out my copy of that same IMR powder guide from 1990. If you have SR4759 starting somewhat below what they show as a maximum charge would probably get you where you want. I was lucky and discovered SR4759 just before it was discontinued, but barely. I do have a small stash, and it's lots of fun in the '06. I have also had good luck with IMR4227 but it won't give nearly the case fill the 4759 does.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Texas by God]

I have 4198 so I'll go that route. I've loaded one round with a slightly reduced charge, magnum primer and filler. I'll try this one and see what's what. This is my brother's elk rifle and we want a lower recoiling practice load. I got 44 of these 300gr Hornady btsp for $10. That is why we are using them. Might use them on hogs......

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[Chill Wills]

We are talking 44 bullets? :razz:

Whoooh! I miss-judged the scope of your bullet stash. I thought we were talking about the plinking away of many hundreds of good jacketed 300gr 375's!

Carry on. Have fun.
BTW- I have that same IMR - data flyer. Very useful and insightful. It shows data on all the old cartridges for the full range of powders; powders you would use and powder pairings you would never think of using, but the data is there and pressure tested. If nothing else, it is very interesting to see how the pressure and velocity progress using the faster to slower powders in a cartridge. Good stuff.

Okay Texas by God, you and your brother have fun and I hope you do get to shoot some hogs with those big jacketed bullets. Just make sure there is nothing behind the hog for a few miles:bigsmyl2: Take care.

[msp2640]

Once you're done burning thru the stash of the 300 grain bullets and you're still looking for a moderate velocity "fun" load to shoot, the Speer 235's are just the ticket! I've shot nearly 200 or so, thru my H&H, using the same 25 nickle plated cases. I don't have the load info handy, but it was a "book" load from a newer Speer manual and was not a max load either. Easy on the shooter, the rifle and the brass and makes the same 375 cal hole in paper as factory ammo. I wound up with those once fired cases as part of a deal and have kept them separate just for those loads. Even at the moderate speeds, they should be plenty for deer or hogs - Bill in MA

[Texas by God]

We are talking 44 bullets? :razz:

Whoooh! I miss-judged the scope of your bullet stash. I thought we were talking about the plinking away of many hundreds of good jacketed 300gr 375's!

Carry on. Have fun.
BTW- I have that same IMR - data flyer. Very useful and insightful. It shows data on all the old cartridges for the full range of powders; powders you would use and powder pairings you would never think of using, but the data is there and pressure tested. If nothing else, it is very interesting to see how the pressure and velocity progress using the faster to slower powders in a cartridge. Good stuff.

Okay Texas by God, you and your brother have fun and I hope you do get to shoot some hogs with those big jacketed bullets. Just make sure there is nothing behind the hog for a few miles:bigsmyl2: Take care.
What started this was last summer he got excited when his wife spotted pigs; he grabbed his Ruger .375 with factory 300 gr rn and killed two with three shots after a pell mell run across the field on a side by side. He didn't have the butt tucked into his shoulder correctly and got bruised and a "Zeiss eye". Between my talk of casting boolets and the cost of factory ammo- I think he's seeing the light. After these loads, if he doesn't want to cast- I'll look into light j-words.
Thomas

[Outpost75]

Try the Meister or Laser-cast 250-255-grain plainbased .38-55 bullets, they are much cheaper than jacketed, and if you get them in the larger .379-.380" diameter they will stand 1450 fps without leading. It helps to give them an overcoat of Lee Liquid Alox over top of the blue hard lube that comes on them.

[Texas by God]

Thanks Outpost!

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[30calflash]

+1 on the Speer 235's for a reduced recoil load. Also used the sierra 200 gr fp for the Winchester round, they worked pretty well for low recoil also. Should take care of the hogs well also.

[Texas by God]

The IMR booklet load is good for 4198.
I reduced it and don't feel it made much difference. The gun is so heavy and the limbsaver pad so effective this was fun. These groups were shot at 40 yds and I left the scope alone. Done deal and I'm using up an old can of powder.
The Ruger Magnum Rifle is a fine gun.
Thomashttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/414dc370d31c0e989dd3142bc2bbabc9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/d52cc37dcc8b53a3e37fbc7d171c821a.jpg

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[Moonie]

I don't believe they make that bullet any longer, you might try this with another easier to replace bullet.

[Texas by God]

I will when these are gone.

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[35 shooter]

Nice looking rifle.

[Moonie]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/curioandrelicfirearmsforum/ed-harris-articles-for-reduced-loads-t2704.html

[Texas by God]

I fired 3 shots from the bench using a dog bowl as a rest for my hand on the forearm. About a 2" group slightly right.
Thanks for the advice everyone.

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[15meter]

Cost of three boxes of decent factory ammo is more than a mold, sizer and 1000 gas checks. Makes it kind of hard not to set up to cast for it. I've got a NOE mold. If geezer memory will let me, I'll post what it is and the load. Loaded for light practice load I think came from Lyman's manual.

[Texas by God]

It's my brother's call but I'm steering him toward CBs. A .375 flat point cast will do the job on anything here. Thanks 15meter- I'll take any info you've got.

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[Larry Gibson]

I use the Lyman 375449 which is a FP in my three six bits (M70). Over 36 gr AA5744 it runs 1850 fps and would be just the ticket for what you want for deer or pigs there in Texas. Over 46 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler it runs 2200 fps for a better load for bigger game.

[Texas by God]

What does the 375449 weigh from 50/50 ww/ lead ? I know every gun is different but what do you size to?

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[rockrat]

I use a BRP 310gr over 38.5gr 4759 and mag primer in my H&H. About 1.5"@100yds Going to try the NOE 275 next.

[Outpost75]

What does the 375449 weigh from 50/50 ww/ lead ? I know every gun is different but what do you size to?

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My old Ideal mold drops WW at 266 grains and .380" diameter and 50-50 WW-lead at 270 grains and . 379". For most .375s I size .379".

[Larry Gibson]

Never cast any with COWW/lead at 50/50. With lino mine run 265 gr fully dressed and with COWW + 2% tin they run 273 gr fully dressed. This is mostly the alloy I use. They drop at .377 - .378. I size at .377 in a Lyman 450 with H&I die. I would suspect 280 +/- gr with COWW/lead. My mould is also an older single cavity.

[Moonie]

I'm currently casting 335gr Accurate Molds boolit for mine and using rl-7.

[15meter]

It's my brother's call but I'm steering him toward CBs. A .375 flat point cast will do the job on anything here. Thanks 15meter- I'll take any info you've got.

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Finally got the info out of my reloading binder.

375 H&H
18 grains Blue Dot
Winchester Large Rifle primer
Noe 379-279FN
Casts @ 292 with G/C and lube

From Lyman cast manual #3

Went as high as 24 grains, snotty load, 18 way more fun to shoot.

Good luck, sorry it took so long to post the info. Had ice so I was sailing:bigsmyl2:[smilie=p:[smilie=p:

[Texas by God]

Thanks 15meter for the recipe!

[kens]

I have a .375H&H as well as the #375449 mold. It shoots well right up to the mid 2,000fps speeds.
I also tried reduced loads for the cast bullet and got a click-bang, or a secondary event, or whatever you want to call it. I didnt like it. I picked up my toy and went home.
I do not like reduced loads (smokeless) in a large case, period. Maybe it is just me.
However, I did one day experiment with a FULL case of FFFFg holy black, now that was a non-event.
Velocity was inside the so-called RPM threshold, and accuracy was enough to be interesting. for all the smoke, crud, and dirty shooting, I never went any further with it.
I do think that reduced loads for a large case are better served with holy black, rather than smokeless rifle powders.

[Drm50]

I shot a lot of Speer 235g in 375H&H, I did load some down to 2000fp but used IMR 4350. Also
did ball gallery loads with IMR-4198 & Dacron filler. Now using the Speer 235g in 375Win using
IMR 3031 in Ruger # 3.

[Whiterabbit]

Finally got the info out of my reloading binder.

375 H&H
18 grains Blue Dot
Winchester Large Rifle primer
Noe 379-279FN
Casts @ 292 with G/C and lube

From Lyman cast manual #3

Went as high as 24 grains, snotty load, 18 way more fun to shoot.

Good luck, sorry it took so long to post the info. Had ice so I was sailing:bigsmyl2:[smilie=p:[smilie=p:

Up after a year. Did you ever try 4198 with no filler for this bullet??

Looks like from above, no filler needed with 4198

[RickinTN]

I'm going to revive this old thread because I have my first 375 H&H on the way. I'll have to start with jacketed bullets and reduced loads. I'll probably use the Hornady 270 grain bullet because that is what I can find at the moment. Switching over to the 235 Speer sounds like a good idea when they are available. I have an offer to borrow an NOE HP mold from a good friend (Thanks RKing) and may take him up on it. I also have access to an Accurate Mold I gave a friend as a gift for his 375 Winchester. I don't remember which design it was but would weigh about 260 grains.
Any additional information anyone can add will be much appreciated.
Thanks, and take care all,
Rick

[rockrat]

Update here too, I have tried the NOE 278gr gc mould and it shoots just as well as the BRP 310. Also, have loaded the 200gr WW bullet over 2400 powder for around 2000fps with great accuracy also

[Whiterabbit]

I’m loading 375 Ruger but it should be close enough. I have not had luck with cast bullets. I can get the speer and barnes bullet shooting OK, got the 270 shooting spectacularly. I wanted to use the gun to shoot the 350 SMK for long range fun and cast for plinking steels. All my loads with NOE cast so far show huge groups. I haven’t figured out the magic combo quite yet for it. I’ll upload the data later when I can so you can see what I was experimenting with.

[rockrat]

What diameter are you using for your cast? I use .379" for my 278Gr NOE boolits. Carnuba blue lube.

[Whiterabbit]

I am using the same mold blank. My mold is the 379-284 mold, 4-cav, flat nose, plain base. I cast with hardball (92-6-2, but the exact mix is loose), and I lube with white label 2700+. As I said before, I'm loading for 375 Ruger so the numbers are probably not a direct carryover. I tried Bluedot and IMR4198 since that's what I have.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=295060&d=1642914146

If I did not list a group, it's because I was struggling to hit an 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 50 yards, so I didn't bother to figure out the exact number. The gun is built to every standard to be a precision rifle, and shoots clovers with the 270 gr jacketed bullet, so my standards are high for a reduced load, and any bad load is the result of incorrect decisions made at the loading bench, not the rifle or shooter. I consider all these bad. For the record, the group size is calculated by taking the "average radius" and extrapolating that to group size at 50, then doubling the number to be "moa". It's not exact, but at the numbers posted, it doesn't really matter.

IMR4198 was a non starter. I'm not sure I should even bother to try putting less in there. I'm not confident it's the right choice to fill a case to such low levels. You guys correct me if I am wrong, can I put a pinch of IMR4198 in a case and expect acceptable ignition? case fill is supremely low.

Bluedot did better. Here is the data blown up:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=295059&d=1642914086

While it would be nice to shoot these out to 500 yards, I really developed the load to be a 100 yard shooter. so I don't mind the SD's at all, they won't make a lick of difference at 100 yards. But the group sizes are nothing good. Above 1300 with the loading choices I've made, it is clearly falling apart for accuracy. Maybe I should have purchased a gas check mold. But I think I'm just not "doing it right" to reduce a load in a 375 ruger case to the 1000 fps level. That's 45 colt territory, I feel like a solid reduced load for a 375 magnum should be in the 1500-1800 range, whatever that may look like.

I had other irons to check on, and never revisited this project. Maybe I will in the future but for now I have elected to put my low recoil efforts into other guns.

[Whiterabbit]

If I stare at the data crosseyed and drool for awhile, I suppose it means I should consider 24 grains of bluedot a great success, and figure out what I have to do to the alloy to get it to drive correctly and group. Gas check for sure. But I guess I'd shoot up all my antimony in a hurry if I did that. I picked plain base specifically to make bullet production a more pleasing process.

Other option is to download bluedot to the next node down which "should" be 12 grains. Velocity would be 990-1025 fps range.

For fun, these are my leftovers after the testing

[Larry Gibson]

Whiterabbit

PB'd bullets aren't going to do well over 1200 - 1400 fps depending on powder and that your rifle has a much faster twist than traditional rifles of that caliber (not cartridge). I've been working with a 375248 cast a bit softer than yours in my M70 three six bits. So far I'm having best accuracy [2 moa at 100 yards] with Bullseye and Unique with loads in the 1000 - 1200 fps range. If you want to push above 1400 fps with any accuracy then a GC'd bullet is needed.

[wmitty]

I have a Lyman 378674 pb design, but I immediately started paper patching it and didn’t try a reduced load for accuracy. The two .375 s ( H & H ) haven’t been used in a while; I’ll try and load up some plain base and see if they will shoot accurately with a little slower powder than what you folks are using. Does your .375 Ruger have a 1:10” twist rate? Larry mentioned a faster twist, so maybe a heavier design than the NOE would work for you.

[Whiterabbit]

OK, you guys inspired me. I loaded half of those above to 12gr of bluedot. One shot load. Will see if they group at 50 yards, and catch the ES/SD. We'll see it.

[Larry Gibson]

I have a Lyman 378674 pb design, but I immediately started paper patching it and didn’t try a reduced load for accuracy. The two .375 s ( H & H ) haven’t been used in a while; I’ll try and load up some plain base and see if they will shoot accurately with a little slower powder than what you folks are using. Does your .375 Ruger have a 1:10” twist rate? Larry mentioned a faster twist, so maybe a heavier design than the NOE would work for you.

My rifle is a Winchester M70 375 H&H. It has a 12" twist. The Ruger 375 is supposed to have the same twist.

295266

[groovy mike]

.379 249 grain bullets over 16 grains of Trail Boss work great in my Winchester M70. Same result with 15 grains for Red Dot with half a compressed cotton ball over the powder. My next experiment will be to try the 15 grains of Red Dot without wad or filler.

[groovy mike]

.379 249 grain bullets over 16 grains of Trail Boss work great in my Winchester M70. Same result with 15 grains for Red Dot with half a compressed cotton ball over the powder. My next experiment will be to try the 15 grains of Red Dot without wad or filler.

FYI, it seems to work just fine without the cotton ball too!