Dillon 550 vs. 650?

[jmac2112]

I've seen discussions on the Interwebs about this issue, but they don't address some of the specific questions I have related to my needs. First of all, here's my current setup:

--I load for 9mm, .45 ACP, and .380 Auto using a Lee Classic Turret Press.
--I powder coat my boolits and size them .001 over bore size
--First I decap/size/prime the cases in a separate operation, then I do the following:
1) Station 1: expand using the plugs made by NOE Bullet Molds in the Lee Universal Case Expander die (so that it works like a Lyman M die)
2) Station 2: add powder using Lee Autodrum (modified with lighter spring so that it doesn't bell the case mouth)
3) Station 3: seat the bullet with they Lee die backed out a bit so that it doesn't crimp at the same time
4) Station 4: run it through the Lee Factory Crimp die (backed out a bit so that it doesn't actually crimp, but just removes the expansion at the case mouth)

When I first started loading, I was using store-bought bullets and following the directions that came with the press. Then I started casting my own, sizing them .001 oversize, and powder coating, and that necessitated certain changes (especially using the NOE plugs) so that the PC didn't get shaved off and the boolits would seat straight and chamber in my pistols (one of my 9mm's in particular has a tight chamber/throat). In other words, I have had to come up with a number of work-around solutions in order to keep using the Lee setup.

I also find that I am shooting more and more (not a bad problem to have). I'm averaging about 800 rounds a month, and I just joined a range that a) allows rapid fire and b) hosts a lot of shooting matches, so I expect that number to climb to 1000 or more. I am employed full-time and have three children, so that tells you how much "free" time I have.

From my research I have gathered that the 650 is great for cranking out a lot of rounds, but is a) considerably more expensive and b) harder to change calibers than the 550. Money IS an object, BUT I don't want to buy another press only to discover a year from now that I should have bought something else. With that in mind, here are my questions:

1) Which of these two presses would best allow me to accomplish the steps I enumerated above in order to reach a monthly production of, say, 500 rounds of 9mm, 300 rounds of .45, and 200 rounds of .380 Auto?

2) Can I keep using the dies I have been using, or would I have to use Dillon dies? Or is there a third option that would be better?

3) What optional equipment would I need? I know it's "optional," but I'm sure there are certain things that it would be stupid NOT to get.

Any and all help is much appreciated!

Thanks,

John

[farmerjim]

"2) Station 2: add powder using Lee Autodrum (modified with lighter spring so that it doesn't bell the case mouth)"

Where did you get the spring?

[earlmck]

I've not used Dillon machines, but I'm pretty sure the 550 doesn't have enough stations to do your reloading steps that way. I could do that with my Hornady machine fairly well with the nuisance part being switching from small primers to large primers and back again (primer size switching being a Hornady weak point that could use some improvement imho). So if you want to keep your technique requiring two stages to get the seat/crimp done you are stuck with the 650.

[farmerjim]

I have only used the Super 1050, but you can go to Youtube and see videos on the operation of each machine, and some comparing them. They are good equipment and hold their value if you want to trade up.

[shell70634]

I have both machines. I bought the 650 because vat the time they didn't offer case feed for the 550. I've only used Dillon dies for pistol and they're set up per the instructions. Either machine should suit your purpose with the 650 being a little faster. The only problems with either have been powder drop and I wasn't doing my part keeping it clean.

Most of my pistol rounds are loaded on stars now.

Shelly

[Mytmousemalibu]

The 550 is a great machine, possibly better for doing rifle cartridges but because of the manual indexing, no case feed (factory option) and less stations, the 650 whoops it in production. Yes the 650 costs more but its a step up in machines. I have my 650 rigged with a press monitor which does many things including round statistics. I have seen 1300rds per hour output on my machine and thats with me manually setting bullets in the cases. Its been the best thing I have ever added to my reloading setup. I burn about 40,000 rds of 9mm per year in my USPSA endeavors. I couldn't do it with less of a machine. You don't have to use all Dillon stuff either. Lots of aftermarket support for Dillon machines too. I love the Dillon dies, they work the best with progressive output due to the nice chamfered dies and smooth, quality construction but I hade several toolheads setup with Lee dies and autodrum's and they work just fine. Its not that bad to swich calibers either. Not degrading the 550, ill probably end up with one at some point but the 650 has my vote.

[sukivel]

I have a 550 and a few single stages. I love the 550 but am going to eventually get a 650 as well. I find myself loading all of my pistol calibers and .223 on the 550, and everything else on my single stage. If I had it to do over again I would have gotten the 650 instead. So...since you are only loading for pistols... I would definitely get a 650.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lefty o]

for hi volume pistol loading the 650 is your machine. change overs arent bad. only takes seconds to change the shell plate and a couple minutes to change the shell plate, and changing from small to large primer does take a few more minutes, but its not a huge ordeal.

[Iowa Fox]

I'll throw another option out for the little pistol rounds in the qty's you listed. Look for a used Square Deal. The 550 & 650's are great presses. I didn't know how well the Square Deal worked until I got one. Easy to change from one cartridge to another also.

[jmac2112]

Great advice! Sounds like the 650 is probably the way to go, but since the case feeder is now available for the 550, I'll have to look more closely at that one too. Can anyone give me a ballpark as to what a full set-up for each would cost me if I went the used route? That might end up being the deciding factor if it's a huge difference.

[Reddirt62]

I have both and to do what you describe you want the 650. You can use your dies but Dillon dies have separate seat and crimp.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[osteodoc08]

Currently owning SDB, 550, 650 and previously owned a LnL, 650 all the way based on your needs. Superior output with the "freetime" you will have and once set, needs minimal adjustments.

[kayala]

I do own both 550 and 650. I use 550 for small batches (under 200) 650 for everything else. Keep in mind that there are more caliber conversions for 550 and they cost almost half from 650 ($48 vs $80). As for the optional accessories - I got roller handle, strong mount and bullet trays for both - love it.

[sukivel]

I wouldn’t put a case feeder on my 550...I looked into it and realized quickly that wasn’t what I wanted to do. Research it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kayala]

Same as sukivel I've researched case feeder for 550 and decided not going that route. If you want case feeder - go 650.

[Hossfly]

I run a 650 mostly for my 9mm very fast, just need to slow down when something goes wrong. Once you get a feel for what your running, you limp wrist every thing,that way if something don’t feel right you can stop. The ball handle you get with the 650 is ok for a while but gets tiresome, you can always upgrade later. Have had mine for 3 years and nothing has broken yet,knock on wood, but if it did i’m told Dillon will take care of it with the no BS warranty. The only hard thing to do on this press is changing from Small priming to large. If your going to go for volume you will also need extra primer tubes filled ahead of time. Plenty of primers, boolits,cases, and powder, you will run out faster than you would imagine.

[DirtyJack]

I have a 550 with case feeder and hornady tube bullet feeder. It increases production to easily 500 to 600 rounds per hour. The only drawback is the bullet tubes. They hold approximately 50 115g 9mm and if you don't have one of your kids loading tubes, you spend about 10 minutes filling tubes. The case feeder setup is nice but also has its issues. When you have a stoppage with the case feeder, everything stops. Usually its operator error like a wrong case. I have not had a misfeed otherwise. I like very much. If I thought I needed a 650, I would already have one. I have too much 550 parts to swap now.

[Fishman]

I have a 650.

If you want to size decap and prime as a first step, you can have a tool head set up with a sizer die and nothing else. The case feeder makes this so easy. Once that is done, replace the tool head with another that is set up to complete your remaining tasks.

Or you can do it in one shot, you’ve got enough stations with the 650.

[oldsman]

for the 650 , mr bullet feeder has a powder die that works like a m-die as the Dillon only flairs the case ,midway and dillon sells these but I don't think they have one in 380,
650 stations
#1 - case drop size and decap
#2 - primer seat(forward stroke) flair and powder drop, I use mr bullet feeder powder die in place of the Dillon flair die
#3 - is used for a optional powder check or bullet feeder system or what ever,
#4 - bullet seat
#5 - crimp

you can also keep your present press set up for 380 and use the Dillon for 9 and 45
and you can use your dies on the Dillon just note how each station is used for on the 650
and I recommend the strong mount

[NoZombies]

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for the 650.

One thing I'd recommend is trying to load in larger batches than what you describe. For instance, If you can load a couple of thousand rounds between switch-overs, you'll save a lot of time and frustration. The dillons aren't hard to change over once you've got he hang of it, but especially changes that require priming system changes can take a little bit to get adjusted properly.

[jmac2112]

Again, I thank everyone for their input! The more info the better!

[LittleLebowski]

Definitely the 650, I’ve owned both, and have two kids. The 650 gives me more time to shoot and more time with my family.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have the XL 650, 550B and 3 Square Deal Dillon presses. I use the SD's for .44 Special, .45 ACP and .45 Colt/454 calibers. They are dedicated and I do not change those calibers. I use my 550 for .41 Magnum and a bunch of rifle calibers.

The above presses do an excellent job and produce enuf rounds for my use in a quick fashion.

The XL 650 is used for 9 MM's, 223's, 30-06's and 7.62x39MM's. With this press I run the dirty cases through a Thumbler Tumbler and SS pins thenI deprime and size off the press, then trim if necessary, then reprime with a Lee bench mounted
priming tool.
In station one of the 650 I have a lyman 'm' die to flare the mouth of the case for insertion of a lead boolit,
station two puts in powder but no primer,
station three is the RCBS powder checking station,
station four is when I place a boolit into the mouth of the case and
station five is the crimping station.

When running 9 MM's I deprime off the press and then run the dirty cases thru the ss pins and then reprime on the bench.

Then with the now clean and reprimed cases I run them thru station one a sizing die without a depriming punch,
powder only at 2 utilizing the belling funnel by Dillon to flare the case mouth,
insert bootlit at 3 and seat,
crimp at 4
and at 5 utilize the FCD for the 9MM rounds only.....I have issues with getting full insertion of rounds into some of my pistols.

I also have a Lee Classic Cast Iron 4 turret press to load 30-30, 30 Carbine, 303 Brit, 7.62x57 MM, 6.5 Sweede, 327 Fed and other misc loadings.

I use a Rockcrusher as my dedicated depriming press and a Lyman Spar T to develop experimental loadings. I have a spare Lee Challenger as a backup press along with a cheapo Frankford Arsenal single stage and Lee Hand press.

All of these presses are mounted onto InLineFabrications plates and are moved around easily (the XL 650 not so much) to two different stations. The 550 and the 650 reside in the gun room mounted on a wooden workbench.

The 550 on the Dillon Strong mount along with the 3 SD's on strong mounts and the XL 650 on a Inlinefab mount.

I also have a wheeled portable garden cabinet designed to roll around the garden. It provides a solid mount for the InLineFab receiver mount and I can mount pretty much everything onto that mount including my Dillon Super Swager and Lee Bench Primer. This is what I use when I want to watch TV (mostly listen) and perform loading chores in the family room.

Since our family consists of only 4 (1 human, 1 canine & 2 felines) I only need my permission to junk up the family room.

As to your situation I would go for the XL 650. It has the extra station, casefeeder and despite the extra cost of the caliber conversions I believe that in the long run it is a better and faster press.

Just remember that I started out with one mold (now over 100) and loaded only for two .38 cal revolvers. Since then I have acquired over 25 other firearms and I pretty much never buy ammo for any of them except the shotguns and the single .22 LR that I have.

You can expect to pay over $1,150 for a fully dressed out XL650 but you can save enuf money over a short period of time to pay for it over the cost of factory made fodder.

Of course you will never see these savings cuz you will be shooting a lot more and becoming a much better shooter plus the fun.

Now if you really want to save money then get into casting yur own boolits...................but that is another story.

[jmac2112]

Thanks, Crash! I have been casting for about nine months now--I quickly realized that that's where the major savings are. There is probably a 650 in my future, as soon as I can scrape together the cash. I like the idea of the cabinet on wheels, too Years ago I built what I then considered to be an enormous workbench. Actually, it IS enormous, but I find more and more things to put on it!

[Bodean98]

I asked this same question a couple of years ago. Either Dillon came with good comments and recommendation. Got nearly the same counsel as you are getting here!
I decided to go with the XL650 and have not regretted it yet. Yes, it's pricey but it just works! As was suggested in an earlier post, if you have enough components just load up several thousand when you have an afternoon or evening available and you'll have plenty of ammo until the next reloading session. Several thousand rounds in an afternoon sounds like a lot (and it is) but is well within the capabilities of the 650. I load for .223, 45 ACP, and 300 BLK on the 650. Change overs are not that difficult and you can be up and running in just a few minutes. I can actually keep more ammo loaded now than I normally shoot! That is a first!!

[Lloyd Smale]

650s were designed with a case feeder in mind and without one there not nearly as handy. A 550 case feeder is an add on and the one I tried blocked the ability to put a case on myself if I didn't want to use the case feeder. Heres my take on it. A 550 is probably the most versatile progressive (or at least semi progressive) press on the market for someone who wants to do volume handgun and rifle ammo but still wants to slow down occasionaly and smell the roses. A square deal is much faster then a 550 and with its short stroke can be ran even feeding it yourself as fast as most guys can load on a 650. Problem is no rifle loading on one. 650s are sweet running presses. With a case feeder (don't bother with on without a case feeder) there fast doing rifle and handgun loading, are brute strong and much more reliable the there competition (LNL) I have two 550s and two LNLs. I bought my Lnl's when they were giving away a 1000 bullets. the bullets are gone and I still have the presses. Its not that there junk but they take a lot more tweaking and babysitting then a 650 does. Case feeders are an add on and don't run near as well as dillons do on a 650. So much so that my LNLs tend to sit unused. I have one set up in 223 and one in 45acp and got them all adjusted and for the most part load those rounds on them and don't bother swapping calibers. If it something else I just use a 550. 550s may not be the fastest but they run and run and run and rarely need any tweaking or even cleaning. Id about bet if if I did a round count in four hours on my lnl with a case feeder and auto indexing and did the same on a 550 there wouldn't be that big of a difference in the amount of good ammo produced. If I had to go to just one press for everything I load it would definitely be a 550 and that's even if you offered me a 1050. 1050s are wonderful presses but conversions cost an arm and leg and are more involved to swap out. If all I was going to do is load one or two pistol rounds the rest of my life I could live happily with a square deal.

[Petrol & Powder]

I own a 550 and have used a 650 and a 1050. They are all excellent machines.
I have loaded 10's upon 10's of thousands of rounds on a 550 and actually prefer it over a 650.

Looking back at the OP, his production rates are very conservative and would be easy to meet with either machine.
With the exception of the Square Deal B, Dillon dies use the standard 7/8" threaded body so just about any standard die will work with the 550 or 650. I have several tool heads with an assortment of different dies installed on the same tool head (Redding, RCBS, Dillon).

The key to speed with the 550 is extra pre-loaded primer tubes. YES, it takes time to load those tubes and you have to count that time but that task doesn't have to happen when you're loading.

With complete tool heads setup for each caliber you load, converting between calibers on a 550 can be accomplished very quickly. If you don't have to change primer sizes, it's even faster. The difference in cost between the 550 and the 650 is only $157. That isn't a huge difference but it could be put towards additional tool heads, power measures, etc. OR it could be put towards a second 550 ! The ideal situation is to have one machine set up for small primer and the other machine set up for large primer. Of course that doubles the cost of the presses and takes up more bench space. However it is the fastest way to change between large and small primers and gives you the redundancy of a spare machine. That could also be done with two 650's but you would be looking at almost $1200 worth of presses.
Just tossing out ideas here.

With preloaded primer tubes, I can achieve production rates of over 300 rounds per hour on a 550 (it's closer to 400 rounds). That's without a case feeder.

Both machines are excellent machines. I actually prefer the manual index of the 550 but that's a personal preference.
The cost between the two machines isn't that great and it's a one time expense for a tool that will last decades.

[dverna]

Caliber conversion costs are inconsequential in your case. Unless you plan on loading for 10 different calibers, ignore that disadvantage to the 650. I have owned all the Dillon machines. Two 1050's, a 650, two 550's and two SDB. I also had a Star.

I shoot about the same quantity of pistol ammunition that you do but mostly 9mm, 38 Spl. with some .45 ACP and .40 S&W. I currently have a 1050, and two 550's. My recommendation is to get a 650 with the case feeder. I also suggest the Dillon dies but the dies you have will work if money is tight.

Down the road, if you find the desire to shoot a few other calibers and conversion costs become an issue, get a 550.

I have the 1050 set up for small primers as that is what I shoot the most, with separate tool heads and measures for each caliber. One 550 for small primers and one for large primers. I never change primer systems as I am lazy.

[EddieZoom]

I actually prefer the manual index of the 550 but that's a personal preference.


I recently added a 550 to my bench, joining a decades old SDB and I have to say I think I prefer the manual index of the 550 as well. I've always had lots of stoppages on the SDB, mostly due to crappy brass that I didn't properly examine.

I have the same issues on the 550 (I know I should really get more disciplined about brass prep/sort) but since it's manual index the end result is smoother operation which ultimately leads to more speed...for me.

[Petrol & Powder]

I recently added a 550 to my bench, joining a decades old SDB and I have to say I think I prefer the manual index of the 550 as well. I've always had lots of stoppages on the SDB, mostly due to crappy brass that I didn't properly examine.

I have the same issues on the 550 (I know I should really get more disciplined about brass prep/sort) but since it's manual index the end result is smoother operation which ultimately leads to more speed...for me.

The manual index gives you a lot more control and it becomes almost automatic with repetition.

When I pull the handle down with my right hand, my left hand is retrieving a new bullet. I hold that bullet between my thumb and forefinger as I advance the shell plate. While that's happening, my right hand picks up a new casing. The casing gets placed in station 1 at the same time the bullet is placed on the casing in station 3. It sounds complicated but it happens almost as fast as pulling the handle.

With manual indexing, a problem is easily corrected by simply pulling the offending casing out of the shell plate and checking the powder in section 2 before moving along again.

[jmac2112]

OK, so I have a further question regarding the die setup; forgive me if someone answered this and I missed it. If you look at my OP, I have developed a system for the way I do things with the Lee loader, and I'm pretty happy with it; I would just like to do it faster. On a 650, how much freedom is there in terms of what you do with each station? If I want to decap/size/prime on station 1, use an NOE expander plug on station 2, powder on station 3, seat the bullet on station 4, and use a Lee FCD on station 5, can I do that? Same with a 550, except that I would have to do decap/size/prime in a separate step (as I currently do)? I really like the NOE expander plugs, but the downside is that I have to do expanding and powder in two steps. I really don't like just flaring the case, since I experienced a lot of problems with crooked seating/shaving off the PC when I did it that way.

[sukivel]

OK, so I have a further question regarding the die setup; forgive me if someone answered this and I missed it. If you look at my OP, I have developed a system for the way I do things with the Lee loader, and I'm pretty happy with it; I would just like to do it faster. On a 650, how much freedom is there in terms of what you do with each station? If I want to decap/size/prime on station 1, use an NOE expander plug on station 2, powder on station 3, seat the bullet on station 4, and use a Lee FCD on station 5, can I do that? Same with a 550, except that I would have to do decap/size/prime in a separate step (as I currently do)? I really like the NOE expander plugs, but the downside is that I have to do expanding and powder in two steps. I really don't like just flaring the case, since I experienced a lot of problems with crooked seating/shaving off the PC when I did it that way.

I always use cast bullets in my 9/45/38/357 and flare using the Dillon powder funnels. I have never had a problem, and I don’t think u will with pc’d either. Save your noe sizer set for when u start loading other stuff on a single stage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kayala]

jmac, priming is always station 2 on 650, depriming is always station 1. If you want to use Dillon powder measure then it's also number 2 or you loose safe rod, which automatically resets it. Stations 3, 4, 5 are whatever you put in them.

[Mytmousemalibu]

With the newest iteration of powder measure Dillon is using, the one with the failsafe rod, kinda has it in station 2 because that's where the bracket for it goes. Now you have some options. I believe the parts are still available from Dillon to use the older powder measure return spring setup that Dillon used to use. The measure including with the press is configurable that way, same measure just with a new style return linkage. If you backdated it, you could move it no problem. You might be able to with the failsafe rod if you fabbed a bracket for it. You can also use any other manufacturers case activated powder measures which you have freedom to move. I have several toolheads with the LEE auto drum because they are inexpensive and have proven reliable and accurate, all for about $35 a pop.

The best option if you would consider is use the included Dillon measure in position 2 as designed, its an excellent measure. Here's the caveat, buy yourself a Mr. Bulletfeeder aftermarket powder funnel. I promise you won't be disappointed with it! The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel is essentially an "M-die" or NOE style powder funnel that does the same thing. It honestly should be included with the press but just glad the option exists. Bullets drop squarely into the brass and no harm done to bullet coatings or plating. The Dillon powder funnel works, I load a lot of coated 9mm and plated 9mm bullets and the original funnel never caused shaving but bullets with tip in the case mouth a fair bit easier which isn't a problem with the Bulletfeeder funnel. Thankfully with Dillon's bullet seating die, it has an enormous chamfered/radiused die mouth that will straighten very crookedly placed bullets and seats them straight in without bulges or run-out. It all equals a smooth running machine in the end. You won't believe just how fast a 650 can turn a pile of components into a pile of range ready ammo!

I can make all the ammo I'd need for a weekend of club shooting matches in about 10min running the handle.

[jmac2112]

Great! So it sounds like the stock setup with its flaring die would work just fine, and I'll have to look into the Mr. Bulletfeeder option as well. I was leery of using a flare die because of my experience with Lee, which seemed to work OK with uncoated bullets, but not so much with PC. In any case, I would always end up with some bullets (maybe 1 in 20) that seated crooked and wouldn't chamber.

Thanks again to all for the advice!

[jmac2112]

A follow up question about the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel: I looked it up, and they don't give specs for how much it expands the case. I've been sizing my boolits about .001 over bore size, and I assume that, say, the 9mm expander it geared toward .356 diameter. Better too tight than too loose, but does Mr. B offer any options as to the size?

Thanks!

[Mytmousemalibu]

I don't think they offer any other sizes that im aware of but I haven't had any issues. Ill have a look when I get off work this evening and take a measurement for you. I can try sticking a .38/357 bullet in a case too. If they fit, you'll be just fine!

It might be worth chatting with Lathesmith on here and seeing if he can duplicate the Mr. Bulletfeeder in custom sizes? It would be a great alternative.

[sukivel]

Great! So it sounds like the stock setup with its flaring die would work just fine, and I'll have to look into the Mr. Bulletfeeder option as well. I was leery of using a flare die because of my experience with Lee, which seemed to work OK with uncoated bullets, but not so much with PC. In any case, I would always end up with some bullets (maybe 1 in 20) that seated crooked and wouldn't chamber.

Thanks again to all for the advice!

I have the Lee expander die as well and the Dillon funnels do better at flaring, with no shaving.

I need to look into the Mr B funnel as well...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmac2112]

I don't think they offer any other sizes that im aware of but I haven't had any issues. Ill have a look when I get off work this evening and take a measurement for you. I can try sticking a .38/357 bullet in a case too. If they fit, you'll be just fine!

It might be worth chatting with Lathesmith on here and seeing if he can duplicate the Mr. Bulletfeeder in custom sizes? It would be a great alternative.

Thanks for your offer! The more I research this, the more I think that I'm probably creating a problem where there is none, but it would be nice if you get a chance to verify this for me.

[jmac2112]

I have the Lee expander die as well and the Dillon funnels do better at flaring, with no shaving.

I need to look into the Mr B funnel as well...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are referencing the type of expander that merely flares the case mouth, I've tried that with mixed results. The setup I currently use involves replacing the flaring plug in the Lee Universal Expander Die with a plug made by NOE Bullet Molds. This plug works like a Lyman M die in that the tip of the shaft expands the case so it's .002-.003 under bullet diameter (or whatever--you can buy them in different sizes), and then the next part of the shaft expands the mouth so it's a little bigger than bullet diameter. That creates a "ledge" that the bullet sits on, which ensures that the bullet goes in straight. If you adjust it so the plug goes in deeper, you can also bell the case mouth, but I find that this is usually unnecessary.

From what I'm seeing, it looks like the Dillon powder die expands the case to just under bullet diameter and then flares the case mouth, without creating the handy "ledge" for the bullet to sit on. This is certainly better than the Lee method, but doesn't seem as good as the Lyman M/NOE plug method. It must work pretty well, however, since Dillon users seem very happy!

[Plate plinker]

Run your 9mm and 380 on the new dillon whatever model and keep your Lee for 45acp so you do not have to switch primer systems. Unless it’s super easy on those machines. I run the 1050 and it’s a loathsome task to change the primer assembly over. Guess I need a second machine.

[Tazman1602]

Ideally in a perfect world I'd tell you to go to a Square deal B -- I have several and LOVE them for handgun loading but....I also have two 550's and even though it takes time to change calibers (not that much really...) I use those mostly for rifle cartridges.

You know what? I haven't seen it yet, but why don't you give Dillon tech support a call? They've always been helpful for me and might be able to help you also.

Just my .0002 worth.

Art

[Law.man]

I got two XL650 - one is set up for large primers and the other one for small. That way the caliber changes take only about a minute or two. In my humble opinion, unles you get a really, really good deal on a 550, there is no good reason not to go for the 650.

Two reasons:
1) the 650 is faster, provided that you use a casefeeder (which by all means you should). If you do not feel like spending that kind of money for a factory unit, it is not too hard to build. I made two for both my 650s and each was about 20 bucks or so and a weekend worth of work (if fun projects count as work).

2) the 650 toolhead has 5 stations, whereas 550 only has 4. If you use cast boolits, it is a good idea to have a dedicated case expander (I use lee universal expander die and NOE expander plug) and if you reload for revolvers, I find it easier to seat/roll crimp in two separate steps. This uses up all 5 stations of 650. On 550 you have to give up one of these.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for your offer! The more I research this, the more I think that I'm probably creating a problem where there is none, but it would be nice if you get a chance to verify this for me.

Sorry I didn't get this to you as soon as I said, I completely forgot to check last night. I'm losing my dang memory!

The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel has 2 different diameters on the expander plug. The first diameter and the 1st part that enters the case mouth measured at .353 diameter. There is a slight step half way up the expander and this is the next diameter measures at .358 in diameter. I cycled a couple pieces of sparkly clean 9mm brass through, both happened to be Federal. I was able to easily drop an H&G #50 wadcutter, .3575-.358, lubed bare lead, cast about Bhn 8.7, very soft lead. I seated one and it dropped in the casemouth with featherweight pressure, nice & square with out at all risk of shaving. I seated the bullet deep, almost 1/4 deep and only the last 1/16 of the base swaged down, well deep enough that case wall taper and stiffness was the root cause of in-case swaged bullets. The rest of the bullet survived no worse off and recall this is a .38 Special/.357 wadcutter in 9mm brass. Your quite safe with the Mr.B funnel. I do .355-.356 jacketed, copper plated, and coated bullets, not a trace of issue!

Hope that helps!

[jmac2112]

Sorry I didn't get this to you as soon as I said, I completely forgot to check last night. I'm losing my dang memory!

The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel has 2 different diameters on the expander plug. The first diameter and the 1st part that enters the case mouth measured at .353 diameter. There is a slight step half way up the expander and this is the next diameter measures at .358 in diameter. I cycled a couple pieces of sparkly clean 9mm brass through, both happened to be Federal. I was able to easily drop an H&G #50 wadcutter, .3575-.358, lubed bare lead, cast about Bhn 8.7, very soft lead. I seated one and it dropped in the casemouth with featherweight pressure, nice & square with out at all risk of shaving. I seated the bullet deep, almost 1/4 deep and only the last 1/16 of the base swaged down, well deep enough that case wall taper and stiffness was the root cause of in-case swaged bullets. The rest of the bullet survived no worse off and recall this is a .38 Special/.357 wadcutter in 9mm brass. Your quite safe with the Mr.B funnel. I do .355-.356 jacketed, copper plated, and coated bullets, not a trace of issue!

Hope that helps!

Yes, that's great info to have! Thanks for checking that for me. It does seem like Dillon would want to offer something similar, but for $32 it seems like a fantastic upgrade.

[jmac2112]

Two reasons:
1) the 650 is faster, provided that you use a casefeeder (which by all means you should). If you do not feel like spending that kind of money for a factory unit, it is not too hard to build. I made two for both my 650s and each was about 20 bucks or so and a weekend worth of work (if fun projects count as work).


Now THIS sounds very interesting. The cost of the casefeeder is the main thing holding me back from going with a 650. Do you have plans for your homemade casefeeder that you could share with me? Years of working on old Triumph motorcycles has made me pretty mechanically inclined, so I think I would enjoy this sort of project. My wife calls me 'MacGyver'.....

[Law.man]

Not exactly plans, I can post some photos and take some measurements over the weekend if you are interested.

Here is what it looks like:
212103
212104
212105

The base is made of some plywood I had lying around - a round disc about 12" in diameter with a notch cut in one place to accomodate the case funnel. The round base is supported by a chassis also made from plywood - this part I would have to measure as I don't remember the dimensions exactly, but the idea was to make it in 45° angle and about 5" tall to leave enough space inside for the electric circuits and motor. The chassis is attached to the press via 5 ordinary plastic 1" water pipe brackets (can be found in any hardware store) screwed to the rear portion of the chassis. The whole assembly basically slides onto the black pipe of the press and stops when it contacts the plywood disc. The black bucket was also bought at a hardware store and cut at about 45°angle - I did not measure it, just cut it with jigsaw as I saw fit.

The bucket is bolted to the plywood disc base with about 8 bolts to make sure it holds solid, the inside of the bucket then needs to be made perfectly flat, which I achived by cutting about 11" disc from 1/5" polycarbonate, which i hot glued on several places to the bottom of the bucket to make a solid bedding. I made sure to take it out again before the hot glue completely cooled so that it can be taken out for cleaning. Both the bucket and the bottom plate need to have a notch about 1.5x2" matching the notch in the base plywood disc, through which the cases fall down to the funnel. Then you need another 11" disc cut from 1/5" polycarbonate and drill holes around the edge with proper size dril bit. For large pistol cases such as 45acp i went with 9/16" size, for small I can't remember at the moment, but probably something like 7/16". Then I cut the holes open with a jigsaw and cleaned up the edges with a dremel and a sandpaper drum. This was probably the most time-consuming part.

Then there is the motor. I ordered a 12v 3RPM worm motor off ebay for some 6 bucks (this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-0-6RPM-2RPM-3RPM-10RPM-100RPM-120RPM-Powerful-High-Torque-Gear-Box-Motor/332203827322?hash=item4d58e4207a:m:maTJAMY31droKXy FCCYea8w)). Then I took a 5/16" socket, drilled a hole inside to match the shaft of the motor and soldered it in place (though a JB weld would probably do the same job as well). The motor is mounted from the bottom side of the plywood base disc, with the socket protruding through a hole in the base and bucket and the polycarbonate bottom inside the bucket. The other dics with slots all around has a hex 5/16" bolt fixed in the center, which conveniently plugs into the socket driven by the motor.

The funnel is where the most room for error is as its shape affects orientation of the cases as they fall in the feeding tube. After some trial and error I just cut off a coke bottle, stuck it there and voila, works like a charm - though there were some minor adjustments to be made.

The electric part is fairly easy. The power is supplied by an old cell phone charger I had around, 12v and 1.5 amp. This is plugged into a plug bought at radio shack. Then there is a master power switch for the motor, power switch for a light I mounted to the toolhead and a socket for the light plug, for when I switch between calibers (I got a LED light on each toolhead, they cost about a dollar each, so I figured I might as well buy several of them to give to friends and some I had left). The feeding cycle is controlled by a microswitch also bought at radioshack - one with the longest arm they had in stock. I had to cut a slot in the case feeding tube (or in this case in an extension made out of a 1" plastic water pipe) and position the switch so that when it fills with cases, the last case puts enough pressure on the micro-switch arm to break the circuit and stop the motor.

And that is about it. I do get about 1% of cases turned upside down, but all things considered, that is a tradeoff I can live with.

[jmac2112]

That's fantastic! I can see or imagine how most of it fits together, though I may have a few questions later. Thanks for posting this!

[Law.man]

Feel free to pick my brain :) I'll take some more pictures over the weekend.

[jmac2112]

Feel free to pick my brain :) I'll take some more pictures over the weekend.

I'm sure I will be doing that, and any pictures you can post would be much appreciated! I grasp the general way that a casefeeder operates, but I've never seen one in real life.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Lawman: I gotta give ya the GOLD STAR for what you came up with. That looks like my next project. I have a 550B and an XL650 but I have only one casefeeder. So I swap it back and forth from press to press with no difficulty.

I might pick up another XL 650 down the road to eliminate the switch out of the primer systems when going to small etc. and having one Dillon Casefeeder and two homemade would certainly help out. It cost you a small amount to make it....imagine how much it cost Dillon? By buying components by the thousands their cost would be about 1/3 of what you spent. However they have to pay a worker a decent salary to assemble it so it might actually cost more.

In either case they should be making quite a decent profit on every casefeeder they sell. I see that other manufacturers also sell casefeeders so I doubt that there are any patents out there to violate. With a few modifications you might just have a new job for yourself.

[Law.man]

Thanks for the kind words...well if you take into account the time you spend by manufacuring and adjustments, you end up with a whole working day or two weekend afternoons, so I imagine that for some folks who do not like to go all Tim Taylor and prefer to buy a quality OEM product, the price (239 from Dillon) is not all that unjustified, given there is quite a bit of research involved and a production line to be paid for (they don't exactly sell these by the millions, do they). But for folks who enjoy a little DIY project, this is a fun thing to do and on the top of that you save yourself some 200+ bucks in the process.

Anyway, here go some additional pictures, as advertized.
212317
212318
212319

Here on the top feeding plate you can see the three agitators duct-taped on the top that kind of stir the cases around to make them want to get picked up by the grooves in the feeding plate.
The green piece of plastic near the cutout is a strip cut off a plastic bottle sticked in there with 3M tape - a bit hillbilly mod, I know. It is slightly bent inwards and helps to straighten out the cases right before they drop into the funnel. It greatly improved reliability of the whole device.

[Law.man]

Some pictures with a tape measure to give you a better idea about the dimensions. The units are centimeters cause I don't have an inch tape measure around. I did not measure the two polycarbonate discs, as they have to match the inner diameter of the bucket, so it depends on the bucket size you choose.
212320
212322
212323
212324
212325
212326
212335

[Law.man]

Here is the backside with the 1" plastic water pipe mounting brackets and the electrical components.
212327
212328
212329
212330

And here is the optional LED light - got a bunch of these off ebay (this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-23mm-DC-12V-Eagle-Eye-LED-Daytime-Running-DRL-Light-Car-Auto-Lamp-White/262945050667?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)), it is installed in the small hole on the toolhead right next to the powder measure. The LED light shank is taped around with electrical tape to make it fit snug inside. Not sure about the original purpose of the hole, but it serves well for the LED light. It positions the light right above the case which just had a powder charge dropped in - makes visual inspection of each charge easier.

212331
212332
212333
212334

[jmac2112]

Bravo! Thank you very much for taking so many photos. I've already started sourcing bits and pieces for this project, and I did want to ask what you thought about using a 3 or 4 rpm microwave turntable motor to drive the plate. I can get one of those plus the adapter piece that the shaft fits into for about $15 delivered, and it looks like it would be pretty easy to attach the adapter to the plate. I like the motor you have too, but I've heard that at least some microwave motors will auto-reverse if they sense too great a load, and that would be a handy feature to have.

Thanks,

John

[Law.man]

Sure, the microwave motor seems like a good idea. The key is keep the RPM at about 3 - this way I can't outrun the casefeeder even at a quick pace (100rds in about 10 minutes), but it is it slow enough to drop the cases reliably without them either getting stuck in the drop window or jammed in the funnel - if two fall in fast enough right after one another, they can get stuck in the funel. The reverse function in case of motor overload would be very nice to have as well. My failsafe is basically that the motor turns in a direction that loosens the hex screw fixed in the middle of the feeder plate in case it gets stuck - I just had to figure out the right amount of torque to tighten the bolt with (again trial and error) to allow it to carry the weight of about 300 45acp cases without loosening.

[jmac2112]

OK, thanks! And one more question: Is there any benefit to having the plate thicker than 1/4"? Would the cases be any more likely to stay upright if it were 5/16" or 3/8"?

[Law.man]

Well, the 1/5" sems to retain the cases well enough. I do not see why a 1/4" would not work just as well. But in my opinion there is no added value in using a much thicker (and more expensive) plate, unless of course you already have some lying around. Technically it should work equally well.

[6bg6ga]

I sort of cussed my 650 last night as I setup for some 9mm with 124gr hollow point. I had been reloading 44 mags and I only have two powder measures one of which stays on my 45acp setup. Anyway I managed about 20 rounds that needed to be run manually thru my Lyman t-mag with standard 9mm dies and the RCBS powder dropper. What looked like it was a massive bunch of primed and belled mouths with no powder or bullets took only a few minutes to run manually drop the powder in and add a bullet.

One the setup casualities were taken care of I was off running about 16-18 rounds a minute without breathing hard. As I ask myself are you happy with the 650 my answer is always a yes.

[DocSavage]

I've 2 650s mounted on Rocdoc adaptors. The Rocdoc base is attached to a strong mount bolted to my bench. Personally I find changing out the spring load primer cup a pain as there's no room to get a wrench in the space to unbolt it.
There are several companies that make tool heads for the 650,one company make the toolhead with the caliber machined into the face of the toolhead also they are machined from a billet where the Dillon toolhead starts life as a casting I believe.
The only calibers I could 't get to work properly are 308 Win,40/65 and 45/70.
All the advice you've been given has been my experience and I've had my machines for the better part of 20 years.

[dogdoc]

I load coated and non coated cast bullets on my Dillon 550s and 650s and the Dillon expander works fine. Many thousands of rounds loaded. Just run it as designed for a minimum of fiddle time and I think you will be very happy. A thousand rounds a month could easily be met with a regular 550 and caliber changes are cake. Maybe 2.5 hours loading time but a 650 even faster and extra station for powder check die if you need it. I would not recomend a 550 case feeder as I have not found it to be as reliable as the the 650s. Buy dillons case feeder for a machine that will work great without headaches of something homemade and a no bs lifetime warranty.
Dogdoc

[jmac2112]

Well, I was finally able to justify (to myself) shelling out the $$$ for an XL650 (the wife is sure to be skeptical when I get around to telling her), so I placed my order yesterday. The RL550 would probably have sufficed for my purposes, but I really like the idea of having a 5th station in case I want to use the NOE expander plugs I'm accustomed to using. Buying a 650 also provides a good excuse to build my own case feeder (collator). I've been hard at work sourcing parts for that project, and I placed an order for some stuff last night. The motor was a tough choice. There are some cheap geared motors available on Ebay direct from China, but the sellers are very vague about the delivery timeframe--could be three weeks, could be a month and a half, could be the boat will sink on the way over. Buying the same motor from an American distributer would cost me 4-5 times as much. I ended up spending $15 for a small 110VAC motor that seems certain to have enough torque. I've drawn up some plans for a simple slip clutch that should mimic the factory setup. I'm also going to install an LED in the center hole of the toolhead, and I'll be using an infrared break-beam sensor to operate a relay which will (I hope) shut the motor off when the tube is full. Electrickery (especially AC) is not my strong suit, so I may have some questions for you all when the time comes.

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone once again for all the input I've received! I'll be sure to let you know how things are progressing with the case feeder.

Thanks,

John

[6bg6ga]

I don't use a powder check simply the eyeball that I already own.

I'd use a simple microswitch to turn the collator motor off or you could use a photo transistor.

[6bg6ga]

One major thing in favor of the 650 over the 550 is the priming system. The 550 has the basic square deal priming type system and the 650 has the better upgraded system that uses a rotating wheel. Having had owned a square deal and the problems associated with the priming system was one reason I opted for the 650.

[jmorris]

I just used a simple limit switch attached to the case feed tube. One leg of the power to the motor goes through the common and normally closed pole of the switch. If a case drops by the powder is cut for such a short period of time the motor doesn’t stop but once the tube is full and a case stops at the switch the circuit is open and power can’t get to the motor.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212704&d=1516888977

This is the same device but in bullet collator configuration but it shows how I just used a split set collar on a smooth shaft, that’s the clutch. Can’t get much easier than that.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212705&d=1516888992

[Plate plinker]

OK, thanks! And one more question: Is there any benefit to having the plate thicker than 1/4"? Would the cases be any more likely to stay upright if it were 5/16" or 3/8"?

No you do not want it any thinker. I believe dillon uses the thinner material so the upside down case fall over due to gravity. I will have to watch my machine to verify that. If you used a say 3/4" (excessive but to make a point) material you would have all kinds of upside down cases.

^^^^^Jmorris^^^^ aka mechanical genius.

[glockfan]

had the same debate with myself when i started loading my own.....did my research for couple months on the pros and cons on 550 OR the 650....and sure enough ended up with the 650 that i bough from rob bagnato and hangus hobdell. automatic indexing, plenty of after market dies at reach, solid construction , very precise and smooth action....and i prefer seating and crimping my rounds separately. the auto index is something you wouldn't pass on.

i don't have a case feeder nor do i have the bullet feeder and on good days i load 400 and hour easy . caliber changes doesn't take much of your time,and once adjusted for the caliber you work on it'll stay as is unless someone play with your dies lol...

i bolted mine on a cheapo carpenter bench which is bolted to the floor. i've only added the strong mount, bullet tray,and modified the case feeding tubes so i can load twice the amount of cases in the tubes . the important part is it must be solidly achored so it won't move when you push-pull the lever. also i must say that for a very,very slick action of the press, spraying my cases with ONE SHOT is premium. i wouldn't load without it. it make the machine's action so smooth, amazing how just a little can can do wonders in that department lol.

212709212710212711
212712

[jmac2112]

I'd use a simple microswitch to turn the collator motor off or you could use a photo transistor.

I thought about using a microswitch, but in my research I found that some people had trouble getting them to work right. Upon further research, I see that sometimes the solution is to order the switch from Dillon, but I've already ordered the break beam switch (made by Adafruit, if anyone is interested in googling it). It was less than $8, so at least I will not have wasted too much money if it doesn't work.

[jmac2112]

And thank you, jmorris, for the photos and the input. I like the simplicity of your clutch. I already bought materials for mine, but now I've got another option if it doesn't work.

[6bg6ga]

Check into jmorris videos. He can make a Cadillac out of a tin can. He surely has info on the micro switch and for that matter anything else you want to do.

[jmac2112]

also i must say that for a very,very slick action of the press, spraying my cases with ONE SHOT is premium. i wouldn't load without it. it make the machine's action so smooth, amazing how just a little can can do wonders in that department lol.

I've never tried One Shot, or any case lube, but it sounds like good stuff. Do you set all your cases upright and spray them from 2-3 different angles? So far I've just been adding a little Flitz to my tumbling media, which seems to make the cases a little slicker.

[jmac2112]

Check into jmorris videos. He can make a Cadillac out of a tin can. He surely has info on the micro switch and for that matter anything else you want to do.

I will definitely check those out! I've been watching a LOT of YouTube lately....

[jmac2112]

The high density polyethylene that I ordered just a couple of days ago is supposed to arrive today (that was fast), so I'll probably get to work on the plates pretty soon. I think I'll start another thread devoted to this project and try to upload pics as I go. I'm sure having a few dozen pairs of eyes watching my progress will save me from wasting time and material.

Tomorrow will be devoted to purchasing and installing a new toilet, however. "Delays, delays, delays....," to quote the mad scientist in the old Bugs Bunny cartoon.

[6bg6ga]

I've never tried One Shot, or any case lube, but it sounds like good stuff. Do you set all your cases upright and spray them from 2-3 different angles? So far I've just been adding a little Flitz to my tumbling media, which seems to make the cases a little slicker.

I little off topic ...sorry.

You can make better case lube than One shot for far less money. I use Heet with the alcohol and lanolin.

[glockfan]

I've never tried One Shot, or any case lube, but it sounds like good stuff. Do you set all your cases upright and spray them from 2-3 different angles? So far I've just been adding a little Flitz to my tumbling media, which seems to make the cases a little slicker.

i put my cases in a dillon die box...i shake the box till most are mouth up...then, i do exactly as you thought..i spray them from 2--3 different angle...but not too much. a little goes a long way. when the dies goes inside the cases, it litterally glides ,then the whole action is silky smooth.

[jmac2112]

i put my cases in a dillon die box...i shake the box till most are mouth up...then, i do exactly as you thought..i spray them from 2--3 different angle...but not too much. a little goes a long way. when the dies goes inside the cases, it litterally glides ,then the whole action is silky smooth.

OK, I'll have to give that a try!

Thanks,

John

[jmac2112]

I ended up getting the 650, which arrived a few days ago. What a difference compared to the Lee Classic Turret Press! I was expecting it to be a lot better and faster, but I have to say that it has exceeded my expectations so far. Once I got it dialed in for 9mm it really flies! I made 100 rounds according to my usual formula, and they all chamber just fine. I'll shoot those to make sure everything is OK before I start pulling that handle with wild abandon.

As an aside, I used to grumble about the fact that I have to sort my .45 ACP range pick-up according to large/small primer size, but now I'm glad I've got that bucket full of small-primer cases. One less step when switching calibers! Looks like it would be the most annoying step, too.

I'll still be using my Lee press for .380, and also for bullet sizing, but I'm really going to enjoy cranking out ammo for 9mm and .45 on the Dillon. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this decision!

John

P.S. And it turns out my worries about PC shaving using the standard Dillon powder funnel were unfounded. The boolits get stuffed in the cases beautifully! Some of that magic might be due to the Dillon seating die being better than the Lee.

[6bg6ga]

I ended up getting the 650, which arrived a few days ago. What a difference compared to the Lee Classic Turret Press! I was expecting it to be a lot better and faster, but I have to say that it has exceeded my expectations so far. Once I got it dialed in for 9mm it really flies! I made 100 rounds according to my usual formula, and they all chamber just fine. I'll shoot those to make sure everything is OK before I start pulling that handle with wild abandon.

As an aside, I used to grumble about the fact that I have to sort my .45 ACP range pick-up according to large/small primer size, but now I'm glad I've got that bucket full of small-primer cases. One less step when switching calibers! Looks like it would be the most annoying step, too.

I'll still be using my Lee press for .380, and also for bullet sizing, but I'm really going to enjoy cranking out ammo for 9mm and .45 on the Dillon. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this decision!

John

P.S. And it turns out my worries about PC shaving using the standard Dillon powder funnel were unfounded. The boolits get stuffed in the cases beautifully! Some of that magic might be due to the Dillon seating die being better than the Lee.

NOW YOU WENT AND DID IT!!!

You will have the Lee people up in arms. Certainly is faster than the lee (my opinion based on running both). Did you opt for the case collator or a bullet feeder? I made my own case collator from looking at on on ebay that was being sold. I use a Mr. Bulletfeeder bullet dropper on my 650 with my home made bullet collator undergoing modifications. With the bullet dropper I can easily maintain 16 rounds per minute with keeping the primers filled and bullet tubes ready to re-fill the bullet dropper tube. I thought so much of the Dillon reloading dies that I purchased a second set simply to use on my Lyman -T-Mag that I use to take care of my setup cases. I usually end up with 6-10 cases in various stages of reload off the 650 when I set it up before its 100% dialed in. The T-mag finishes the reloading steps to arrive at usable reloads from the setups.