Best affordable Bench Top Mill?

[6bg6ga]

Looking for a decent bench top mill with digital read out. Any suggestions? Will want to mill aluminum and plastic.

[tim338]

Grizzley , Enco, Little machine shop might be a good place to look also check Craigslist. I had a bench top for years before I found the Clausing mill I currently have. Mine was a Lincoln brand made in Taiwan. It had a R8 spindle so tooling was easy to find.

[bangerjim]

I use the hf larger bench mill. R8 tooling is important. I put a lil machine co drive kit on it to eliminate the plastic gears an noise. Pretty accurate! Used it in my model shop for years.

[ak_rob]

A couple question would be.
What do you consider affordable?
What are you looking to do (hobby stuff, models, 80%'ers)?
How large of items?

[Messy bear]

I have a PM 25. I don't like the spindle - quill set up as it isn't accurate in boring or drilling but lock the quill and then its pretty good as the table is relatively accurate. The variable speed is nice. PM customer service isn't timely as it all has to be handled by the owner and so I have had to wait sometimes. But he was very nice and helpful.

[6bg6ga]

A couple question would be.
What do you consider affordable?
What are you looking to do (hobby stuff, models, 80%'ers)?
How large of items?

I'm thinking less than $1500 for the small mill and when we make the move to AZ I will pop for a Bridgeport probably somewhere around $3500.00 for a used one.

The small mill will be used for plastic items and small aluminum items. The larger mill would be used for the non- finished lowers for myself. It would also do some custom machining I have in mind for a retail product. Can't justify a CNC mill right now unless it was a smaller more affordable one. Can't quite swing $45K for a halfway decent CNC right now.

[bangerjim]

Like I said above this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

Is a great accuracte little mill. Variable speed and if you mod with the LMS belt drive kit, you have a solid & quiet machine. I have used it on everything from wood to 316SST with no problems! R8 spindle means you can use standard tooling. I have 3 mills and the all use R8. The price is great.

End mills, shell mills, face mills, drills, sanding drums, you name it! I have done it on this little mill.

Mine has operated for extended periods of time producing MANY various parts and items for my hobbies and for my engineering work. It is great for anyone interested in a small yet versatile bench mill. And LMS sells spare parts and upgrades!!!!!!!

If you have a problem with the HF brand/color, buy the SAME EXACT machine from several other suppliers for more money.......under a different name/color!!!!!

[ak_rob]

My first though was save your money and get a knee mill, but it sounds like you are headed that way at sometime.
For the small mills they are all (most) made by Sieg just different colors and some of the fit and finish.
Like others have said things to look for are R8 spindle, belt drive and rigid column or plan on upgrading them.

Just from what I have seen LMS has all the upgrades on it it the most expensive also HF or Sieg are the cheapest but will need so upgrading.

What ever you choose mount it to something heavy and solid will help alot I have one on the bench bolted to a 2'x3'x.5" plate.

The DRO can be put on any of them pretty easy.

[abunaitoo]

I picked up a grizzly G8689.
It was used, but used very little.
It needs lots of work to make it user friendly.
I'm guessing the off name brands are the same, and will need just as much work on them.
Get a better model and save in the long run.

[HATCH]

based on your budget figure ($1500)
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-with-DRO/G0758Z#


Already has a DRO from the factory.
has the R8 spindle

I would not purchase a mill that didn't have 3 axis DRO or at least had a easy to install 3 axis DRO kit.

[bangerjim]

https://www.grizzly.com/products/2-Two-Way-Precision-Angle-Vise/T10058

I have several of these that I use on my mills for small precision jobs. Great little vise for the bench size mills. I use one on my big mill also for small precise jobs.

You will learn very rapidly you will spend 15-20X more money on accessories than you spent on your mill itself!!!!! The basic milling machine is just the beginning of a journey down a big black money pit. That is why you want R8 spindle so many accessories are avaialble and interchangeable with bigger mills. There is a ton of R8 tooling out there......new and used. I stick with new only for precision.

Good luck on your choice!!!!!!!

Banger

[6bg6ga]

They could give you a mill or lathe and the cost of the tooling you would purchase would pay for it easily. Would not consider anything without R8

[6bg6ga]

based on your budget figure ($1500)
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-with-DRO/G0758Z#


Already has a DRO from the factory.
has the R8 spindle

I would not purchase a mill that didn't have 3 axis DRO or at least had a easy to install 3 axis DRO kit.

One can always go old school with several dial indicators with magnetic bases. But, I'm lazy in my old age and would like a digital read out.

[bangerjim]

I have used my HF mill I referenced above for that past 10 years WITHOUT the need for a DRO. I have them on my other mills, but this little one really does not really need it....depending on your work, of course. I have milled a TON of very accurate repeatable items over the years using just the wheel dials and good machine tool practices. Accurate layout with tool maker's dye, sharp scribing tools, and lay-out tools are more useful than a DRO to me. The key is to know the back-lash of the mill table X-Y.

But I am old school and think DRO's are a bit over-rated for general home milling jobs. Spend the money if you think you need one and can afford one. I would personally spend that SEVERAL (!) hundreds of $$ on good tooling, which will be far more valuable and useful, than a DRO.

Let us know your final decision.

[McFred]

Looking for a decent bench top mill with digital read out. Any suggestions?

I found a virtually new Bolton ZA45PD 9.5" x 32" benchtop mill with power-feed and DRO locally for $2000 on Craigslist. It came with a pile of tools, 4" vice, granite surface plate, two 6" angle plates, a few 1-2-3 blocks, 3 German-made keyless chucks, 2 Armstrong boring heads, a clamping kit, 2 sets of ground parallels, full set of 1/8" graduation R8 collets, cast iron/brass/steel material, and a flimsy steel stand. It seems to work well enough for the small projects I work on. Shop around for someone upgrading or selling it all off. A deal can be had.

Other's are right, you'll spend a lot more on tooling.

[nekshot]

For a hobby purpose that HF model would be slick as a drill press\ mill in one machine. If I ever move I am going to sell my floor model and pursue that HF bench model.

[KCSO]

The Grizzly 0704 will do everything you need to do on a gun. A little tweaking and you are up and running. bUt the cost will be in proper tooling and fixtures.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - tim338's Clausing Vertical Mill is the way to go - IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!
Have been using mine (#2 MT Spindle, matches my South Bend 10K Lathe) for decades - ITS GREAT!
(EZ to break down to THREE "300 lb. loads" if yer moving...)

[JSH]

I too have been looking for quite a while for a small mill, space is at a premium thus the need for a bench top. I have been warned on mill/drills and have seen what they meant, depends on how anal you are. You either end up with a so so mill and a decent drill press or wanna be mill and a good drill press. All depends on what you want and expect from end results.

So I have been on the look out for a small mill for some time. Machines of this use are few and far between in this part of the country.

I may be either frugal or lucky on tooling. Since buying my lathe a year ago I have picked up quite a bit of needed equipment at auctions. One of my hauls I spent les than $30 and came home with brown and sharpe, Starett, flower and a lot bits HSS and carbide for less than $30.

Another auction I spent more but came home with more as well. Whole back of the truck full. Sold off the excess for great price to others and my stuff was free.

I have another auction coming up, not much in it I need but if it's a deal I will be on it.
A bit of time spent searching the net in local auctions may net you some good to great equipment for reasonable to free prices.

[krems]

Lots of good points to be made here. Tooling costs are 10 times the cost of the mill over time. Make sure if you swap the mills out down the road the tooling works in the newer mill. R8 spindle would be perfect for the hobby / light production guy. I started out looking at bench top mills and never found one that turned my crank. I ended up buying a small knee mill 9 x 42 Webb mill. Added a DRO a couple years later. Finally got tired of turning the handles and I converted the Webb mill into a CNC machine with the Centroid 400 controller. Now it’s both a manual and CNC machine. Lots of people say it’s a waste of cash converting a knee mill to CNC. Maybe.....but I love it. Worth every penny for my needs. More accurate as well. To this day I still have more invested in tooling than the mill. Glad I went with R8...

[MaryB]

I really want a small mill but for the few times a year I would need it I just abuse my drill press. I mill out a cavity in a 3x3x2" thick brass block to build an amateur radio antenna preamplifier in. I sell 3-4 a year is all so I have a hard time justifying the cost of a mill...

[oldred]

I have both a Bridgeport and the little HF/many other names same machine type bench mill and I agree the bench mill is a great little machine, I still use mine a LOT even with the BP sitting close by. BUT, lets be realistic about those little mills! Lots of good points about them and so far nothing but glowing reviews on them but the truth is they have some serious shortcomings that a potential buyer needs to know about. First they are commonly described as being "limp as a wet noodle" and unfortunately this is all to true! Accuracy (real accuracy) is simply hard to obtain unless modifications are undertaken to stiffen that "flexible" column, fortunately this is easy to do and Googling it will reveal a LOT of discussion about the problem and simple methods of solving it. Almost all of the ads for all of these little mills list the 45 degree head tilt as a "feature" built into it but in reality it is little more than the main cause of the flexing problem and basically useless as a usable feature! For example if you tilt that head even a few degrees not only will you not have any usable table travel left but the darn thing won't have enough spindle travel to reach the work piece! The truth is it is not a feature at all and is actually an excuse to make the frame in two simple flat pieces that bolt together rather than a larger more complex (and thus more expensive to make) one piece frame, interesting to note that the solid one piece frame non-tilting version of this mill costs over $100 more than the one that has the tilt "feature"!

Another problem is known as head drop and this one can be a real PITA! It results from the normal backlash in the rack&pinion head gear. When down pressure is applied during drilling the backlash will be taken up by the down pressure but when the drill bit breaks through this backlash lets the head drop or be pulled down resulting in snagging the bit, a much bigger problem when drilling than milling but it can cause problems when milling also. Various methods of addressing this problem are used, the older versions had a coil spring preload type that didn't work well at all, various gas cylinder conversions were offered to solve the problem and while they are better than the spring they too are not without problems. An easily done counter weight system using a cable, pulleys and a weight pulling upward on the head does solve the problem nicely but this must be rigged up by the owner, very easy to do however and costs very little (I did mine for less than $20).

I could add to this many other little annoyances such as the absurdly short rack gear for the head that limits head down travel, a two inches longer rack is available from LMS to solve the problem but why is it two inches too short in the first place?

Yes they can be a very usable mill and I REALLY like mine but as they come (the newer ones are somewhat better and at least try to fix some of the problems) they need some serious work to be truly accurate and less frustrating to use. Mine was modified with the counter-weighted head, reinforced and stiffened frame (IMHO a real must-do!), a longer head travel rack (I made mine but they are available from LMS, Ebay, etc), a belt drive head conversion and lapped ways to make table travel smooth throughout the range, this is easy to do, costs almost nothing (some lapping compound) and is a HUGE improvement. I just thought these problems should be mentioned so that anyone contemplating buying one would be aware of them before buying rather than after, solutions are available but drive up the cost considerably unless the owner opts to make his own.

Spend the extra money and buy a solid frame machine or plan on using steel plate/angle iron to stiffen that silly floppy tilting one, counter-weight the head, lap the ways, add a belt drive and a longer head travel rack and they make it a nice machine that is a joy to use. It might take a bit of time and effort but parts for almost all of these mods can be made instead of bought significantly reducing the cost, you can make these now instead of buying them because you now own a mill to make them with!! :razz:

[GONRA]

GONRA sez cut the BS and get a REAL "Crank Up Bed" vertical mill. It will handle "controlled displacment drlling".

Glorified Drill Press "Sensitive Drillling" (pulling down Spindle Handle) just doesn't hack it for drilling thru hardened sheet metal (carbide die drills!) or milling!!!
Try Bench Mills on UZI top plates and yer gonna Learn Real Fast. (Be sure hava spare UZI Top Plate on hand 'cause you're gonna F it up.)

[oldred]

Well a heck of a lot of folks just can't use a full size knee mill because of cost and/or space to park the darn thing! Those little mills are decent machines when used within their limitations and can very well cover almost all of a lot of hobbyists needs. They really DO need the mods I mentioned earlier to reach their full potential but even unmodified they can be extremely useful, those mods can be done using the mill itself to make the parts or the owner can just buy them -or use it as is!

It's easy to tell folks to just spring for the heavy iron at the start but all too often for various reasons it's either a bench top machine or no mill at all!

[6bg6ga]

Ok, I give up! I'll wait and get a Bridgeport when we move to AZ.. Thanks for the frank and truthful information on the little bench top mills.

[Moleman-]

You can do a fair amount with one of the large green drill/mills from HF. You're not going to mistake it for a bridgeport, but for what they are they do a decent job. To mill the flats on this 22" barrel I had to bolt the indexer and tailstock to a piece of 3/4"x4" steel, then bolt the steel to the table because the combination was longer than the table and close to the actual travel of the X axis.

[oldred]

Yep, you can do a lot and I do mean a LOT, I sure did with mine! I had planned to sell my little mill when I got the BP but it's just so darn handy I would have missed it too much! No joke those things can be a great addition to a hobby type shop even with a "big" mill to go with it, as I said earlier even with my BP sitting there in the same shop I still go to that little fella a lot and I doubt I will ever part with it. As for those who can't justify the cost of the bigger mills or just don't have room for a full sized machine don't be put off by those who would belittle them and call them junk, they are NOT junk they just have limited capacity and can benefit from fairly easy to do mods that make them even more useful. Most any gun part will easily fall into the capabilities of one of these machines so as long as a person is not expecting it to do anything a full size knee mill will do they are quite likely to happy with it, it darn sure beats no mill at all if a full size machine is just not in someone's future for whatever the reason!

[Kenstone]

These get good reviews, R8 spindle, no plastic gears or tilt column:
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3990&category=1387807683
With DRO's:
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4190&category=1387807683
Reviewed here:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/reviews/lms_mm/mm.htm

I don't own either...yet.
sorry if these have already been mentioned :oops:
:mrgreen:

[6bg6ga]

You can do a fair amount with one of the large green drill/mills from HF. You're not going to mistake it for a bridgeport, but for what they are they do a decent job. To mill the flats on this 22" barrel I had to bolt the indexer and tailstock to a piece of 3/4"x4" steel, then bolt the steel to the table because the combination was longer than the table and close to the actual travel of the X axis.


Nice job on that barrel

[Moleman-]

Thanks 6bg6ga it was a fun project. Made the front sight on the same bench mill from some tubing and scrap 1/2" plate. Made the sling swivel base on a 1880's E.E.Garvin mill. I want a Bridgeport and expect at some point I'll end up with one mainly for the bigger table and more rigidity. In the mean while the drill/mill is still turning out parts for me. The only thing I've done to it is add a power feed to the X axis and a caliper to the downfeed Z axis as there is quite a bit of slop in the pinion that can't easily be taken out. With the caliper it's easy to set DOC to within .0005" which is better than any project I'd do requires. When that caliper eventually dies (it's on there as it had a wrench dropped on the display which broke it) I'll get one of the purpose made "dro" type which uses the same electronics as one of the calipers.

[oldred]

there is quite a bit of slop in the pinion that can't easily be taken out.

That was my biggest fault with those mills and one of the biggest complaints overall from all owners I have talked with about them but it's also the easiest to fix. The gas cylinder solution (mentioned in one of the links provided by Kenstone above as an "air spring") is a big improvement but it's fairly expensive and still not a perfect solution as problems still exist especially when drilling. For just a few bucks (I spent less than $20 at Ace Hardware) you can end that problem for good, a piece of 1/8" or so wire cable, a couple of 2" or 3" pulleys, a couple of small "eye" hooks and a few pieces of scrap metal is about all that's needed. Mount the pulleys on top of the column front and back using the scrap metal angle, etc, attach one end of the cable to the head using one of the eye hooks screwed into it and then run the cable across the pulleys allowing a length to hang down behind the mill. Simply add/remove weight until the head functions to suit you and the problem is solved completely! When done neatly this setup will in no way look "cobbled up" if appearance is important to you, as it was to me, and it ends that sloppy head problem forever! The down-pull pressure is even from top to bottom of travel and when drilling the bit snag problem has never happened to me again even when using the largest drills this mill will handle, at least it hasn't happened due to the backlash problem anyway. With this weight system the handle down pressure is actually lighter than it was with that worthless coil spring it had before and since the head is always being pulled solidly against the upper limits of the backlash there is for all practical purpose no backlash there anymore!

[Moleman-]

I did take note of that suggestion oldred, thank you. So far it's been a good machine for me even if it has a few quirks. Keeping everything stock isn't as imported to me as function. The gas spring idea appeals to me. My neighbor runs a auto body repair business and in the past has given me old vehicle hood or hatchback/trunk gas springs to use. The roof on our ducks laying house uses them to make lifting it even when covered in snow easy enough for a kid to do and more importantly not fall back down with enough force to do any damage to little fingers. So if I'm patient likely I could get a common automotive extension type for free.

[oldred]

Those gas springs work better than the coil but they still have problems plus they are a bit more complicated to install. However if you prefer the gas springs and can get them free, as apparently you can, they certainly are a LOT better than that coil if that's what you have now. The trick with the gas springs is getting the head into a "neutral buoyancy" (for lack of a better description) condition plus they also cause a change in required down-pressure over the length of travel giving an artificial "bouncy" feel to the control handle making it a bit difficult to precisely position the tool even when using the fine down-feed wheel. The weight system eliminates all that and provides smooth constant pressure to the feed plus you can easily feel the lightest touch of the tool to work piece, something that's difficult with that gas spring setup.

If you have that coil spring setup you will be much happier with either method you chose to replace it with as either will make that little Mill much easier to use. The gas spring works OK but basically during use it feels as if the head is pulling against a spring, which of course it is, while with the weight system the head just simply feels like the backlash is gone and only requires a light smooth pressure to move then it stays put precisely where you stop.

[oldred]

Moleman I just read one of your posts in another thread and I realized you have a bigger mill than the one I was talking about, all those mods I mentioned were for the little Seig type bench-top mills. Not sure if any of it applies to your round column mill since I have never owned one of those, those little Seig type mills are so common I mistakenly assumed that's what you had.

[Moleman-]

It'll still work oldred, might take a decently strong gas spring though. I remember seeing ones 25 years ago or so that pulled and were quite strong. One of those would be the easiest to install. I rarely use the drill feature and don't even have the spokes/handles installed anymore.