Taurus Judge

[Good Cheer]

Has anyone concocted a specialty boolit / over all length loading to provide an improvement in .45 accuracy with the Judge type revolvers?

A cousin has purchased one and it's got me wondering what would work better.
Extended brass and hollow base minie?
Beats me. But this forum is an outpost of what is perhaps the greatest small arms research lab on the planet so thought I'd ask.

[PapaG]

They need something. First ones we sold had horribly oversized cylinder throats, up to .464". Had quite a sale going on lead removing patches. Taurus wouldn't fix them.
I'd guess a hollow based slug, as big in diameter as could be chambered, might cure it. Otherwise, shoot shotshells and prepare for bad leading with cast or swaged lead bullets.

[bangerjim]

I use my Judge revolver for "up and personal" usage. Accuracy is NOT a problem.

I also have a Circuit Judge long gun, and .......OMG! Dead on acccuracy at 75+ yards with a red dot. My wife's favorite accurate rifle. The 45 slugs hit wherever the red dot is! One of the most accurate guns I own.......right out of the box. I shoot 255 and 300 gn boolits out of it. Those are devastating.

[azrednek]

I recall either here or anther gun board a caster claiming to using a mold for the Ruger Old Army dropping .456 and light weight .458's to engage the shallow rifling in his Judge to get what he described acceptable accuracy with cast bullets. His claim the Judge's shallow rifling will stabilize a jacketed slug without putting to much spin on 410 shot or buck. If I recall correctly he posted rhe Judge is not cast friendly and he pretty much threw in the towel using his home cast.

[Earlwb]

I think that it might work with something like a full target wadcutter bullet or meplat design scaled up from the .38 Special type bullets. But with a hollow base to allow it to expand into the shallow grooves better. Another thought is it may work with a "heeled" bullet design too. The heeled bullets have a larger diameter head with a more narrow base that fits into the cartridge case. it is similar to the 22 LR rimfire bullets. But they used to make heeled bullets in many different calibers back in the back powder era.

[bluelund79]

Haven’t found a cast load for it. Luckily, I found some Colt size 45 jacketed bullets in bulk at a good price online. It’s a lot of fun with the different shotshell loads though. I treat it as a novelty gun, keeps it in perspective for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

best buddy bought one to ride along on his 4 wheeler to shoot birds rabbits ect. We took to the range and shot it at 10 yards and the pattern wasn't even a pattern. It was a joke. He packed it up and took it right back to the gunshop he bought it at. Youd about have to jump off the bike wrestle the rabbit to the ground and put the gun to its head to kill it.

[6bg6ga]

I personally watched as a guy next to me at the range last summer shot his Judge. He shot two cylinders full of factory standard ammunition before the cylinder seized up and wouldn't turn. My opinion here.... they are the biggest *** out there. Accuracy? sloppy cylinder meant to shoot a shotgun shell and then a pistol caliber. He was lucky to hit the target at 10 yards. Want a shotgun? Then purchase one. Want a revolver? Then purchase that but don't purchase an abortion meant to shoot both.

[elmacgyver0]

I have a bond arms Cowboy derringer. Shoots 45LC and 2 3/4 shot shells. Shooting 7 1/2 shot (all I could find) most pellets bounced off of a plastic drink bottle at close range (about 10 feet). Never shot the 45lc from it. I prefer the 38spl/357mag barrel for it.
This is a nice little gun but more of a novelty than anything else. Suppose it would be fine for snakes, but then I have never been bothered much by snakes. The two legged variety snake seems to be protected, although they don't seem to be an endangered species.

[spfd1903]

Bought a new 3" barrel Judge over 10 years ago. I have fired hundreds of rounds of .410 and .45 Colt through it . My experience is that generic shot/buckshot rounds do not keep tight patterns, or penetrate well. The most effective.410 ammo is produced in many combinations by Federal, Remington, Winchester, and Hornady as ".410 handgun ammo". I have tried them all in great quantities. This type keeps tight shot patterns out to 30 feet and penetrates three to four times greater in wet phone books.
Started experimenting in 2011 with boolits for this gun. Best results with the Lee 452-200-rf, sized to .452. At the time HP 38 would produce a 2" to 3" group at 15 yards. Several years ago I noticed some data in Western Powders edition 6.0 for ".45 LC in .410 handguns". Used data for True Blue and Silhouette powder and shrunk the groups to 1 1/2" at 15 yards. The load with True Blue chronographed at 313 ft-lbs at 10 feet.(200 grain boolit)

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess I agree but would also throw in that a 14 inch contender can be carried in a chest rig and the one my dad has shoots a decent pattern out to 15 yards with 3in 410 shells and has killed a bunch of small game. thing actually shoots 45 colts well enough to be a 50 yard deer gun too. Much more practical for the woods then a judge and I'm sure not concealing and carrying a judge for a ccw gun and my wife would have to get a bigger purse and do arm curls to carry the weight of one in her purse. Novelty gun at best. Id sure not buy one new because about every gun shop has one someone traded in when they found out how ineffective and useful they really were
I personally watched as a guy next to me at the range last summer shot his Judge. He shot two cylinders full of factory standard ammunition before the cylinder seized up and wouldn't turn. My opinion here.... they are the biggest *** out there. Accuracy? sloppy cylinder meant to shoot a shotgun shell and then a pistol caliber. He was lucky to hit the target at 10 yards. Want a shotgun? Then purchase one. Want a revolver? Then purchase that but don't purchase an abortion meant to shoot both.

[6bg6ga]

I guess I agree but would also throw in that a 14 inch contender can be carried in a chest rig and the one my dad has shoots a decent pattern out to 15 yards with 3in 410 shells and has killed a bunch of small game. thing actually shoots 45 colts well enough to be a 50 yard deer gun too. Much more practical for the woods then a judge and I'm sure not concealing and carrying a judge for a ccw gun and my wife would have to get a bigger purse and do arm curls to carry the weight of one in her purse. Novelty gun at best. Id sure not buy one new because about every gun shop has one someone traded in when they found out how ineffective and useful they really were

A contender in my opinion is a mighty fine gun and surely a lot more accurate than a Judge .

[spfd1903]

Novelty gun?
Yes it's the firearm my wife has close at hand when I am not at home. She has practiced with the " ***" regularly, both shotshell and .45 Colt.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and your talking a gun that with a 10 inch barrel isn't much bigger then he judge with a 4 inch. Even a 14 can be carried about as easy as a 4 inch judge and is a legit 410 shotgun that throws a real pattern.
A contender in my opinion is a mighty fine gun and surely a lot more accurate than a Judge .

[6bg6ga]

****! Now I need to go out and buy another 45 long colt. I need another S&W 25-5 now.

[sandman228]

i own a 3 inch judge , it has horribly oversized cylinder throats with tooling marks like others mentioned , a .452 diameter bullet will fall right through it with no effort . i'll admit the judge is pretty much a novelty gun and it don't pattern well at all with bird shot . but for offhand plinking at 7/10 yrds with 45 colt or 410 000 buck there a fun gun . I have no prob getting decent accuracy at those distances . now I did try it 1 day bench rested at 25 yrds with 45 colt ammo , I was hitting the target but the grouping and accuracy was terrible but that's pretty much what I was expecting . I do think the judge is a decent nightstand gun and a fun plinker to play around with .

[35 shooter]

I have a Bond Arms derringer 3" bbl. 45/410. The best boolit i've found for it is the Lee 300 gr. .454" .45 cal. hollow base minnie ball. The base flares out enough on firing to seal the bore from blow by better than anything i've used.
I use regular .45 colt brass and get 2 to 2 1/2" groups at 25 yds. with the fixed sights on the derringer.

My brother has a 3" bbl. judge, and has used the same boolit in it. I used to have a 2" judge(the detective?), but didn't have the minne ball mould at that time....I did use winchester 250 gr. lead round nose factory bullets in it with about the same accuracy, but would have a "bad" flyer every now and then.

The .454" minnie balls seem to do a better job of sealing the bore for me in the 45/410 than anything i've found.

BTW...i use both unique and red dot with the minne ball in my bond arms, but would probably start with light loads of unique in the judge because of the thin top strap in the revolver, then work up slow watching for pressure signs.
The bond arms is a stout handgun and handles my red dot loads fine.

[Texas by God]

I'm with Lloyd here. I did a side by side comparison with .410 AA #9s; Judge and a 19" cylinder choke Rossi shotgun. A coke can at ten feet was hit by about ten pellets from the Judge. The shotgun shredded and blew the can away twenty feet. To each his own; I call the Judge,Desert Eagles, S&W X Frames and the like "Pit Bull" guns. You can have them, I don't want one.
Thomas

[35 shooter]

I love mine, I look at my Bond Arms Snakeslayer 45/410 as an all around self protection, camping, fishing, and woods survival tool.

It gives at least decent combat accuracy with the minnie balls i mentioned, and devastating patterns with federal 2 1/2 and 3" buckshot loads. The federals are the best buckshot loads i've found for it.
They pattern tight to 30 yds. and will still keep at least 3 in a man size torso target at 50 yds....of course they're losing steam by then.
Still don't want to be hit at that range with them though.

As far as regular shot, no...it can't compete with a shotgun pattern. The virtue of the rifling in it creates a doughnut in the center of the pattern.
However...after a lot of experimenting with mine, i found i could hold the front sight at the bottom of my rear notch, and with no. 6 shot, that puts the "top half" of the pattern on target at 10 to 15 yds.
At 20 yds.to 30, i use the front sight level with the top of the rear notch and that gets the bottom part of the pattern on target...gets enough shot on target to about 25 yds. for small game .
I used sheets of cardboard to determine where the main pattern was at various ranges and how to use the correct sight picture to get a killing pattern on target.

I'll never be without mine....too versatile. It definitely took a "lot" of experimenting to find what boolit, buck, and shot it liked, but that was the fun part.:smile:

I agree with LLoyd whole heartedly,
the contender 45/410 is the best of the lot. That screw in choke eliminates the doughnut in the shot pattern and shoots very good patterns.

[6bg6ga]

I'm with Lloyd here. I did a side by side comparison with .410 AA #9s; Judge and a 19" cylinder choke Rossi shotgun. A coke can at ten feet was hit by about ten pellets from the Judge. The shotgun shredded and blew the can away twenty feet. To each his own; I call the Judge,Desert Eagles, S&W X Frames and the like "Pit Bull" guns. You can have them, I don't want one.
Thomas

You apparently dont know what a Desert Eagle is. It is a handful but mine is a very accurate gun capable of smaller groups than I am capable of making. I fail to see where it is a Pit Bull gun. Its very accurate and easy to handle. For self defense I wouldn't grab one simply because I am at home with my 1911's.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on a DE. My buddy has two. One a 44 and the other a 50ae. there kind of fun to shoot because recoil is so mild for the power your getting. But there HUGE. to heavy for a belt holster and about as heavy as a light rifle. Even with my big mitts the grip is LARGE. I have a dendency to get failures to feed from using to light of a grip with them. Would I buy one. NOPE. Would I tell someone out hunting with one there a fool? NOPE. There very accurate and like I said mild recoiling. Anyone that can handle a L frame 357 can shoot either of those two calibers in one. My biggest complaint with them is there gas operated and a bugger to clean the gas system so cast bullets were about ruled out in them. With pc that might change. I don't know if the pc would plug the gas system eventually or not. I would have to guess it wouldn't. I gave my buddy a bunch of 501 pc bullets to try in his but his health hasn't let him try them yet. Even that said reineer plated bullets work fine in them and are relatively inexpensive. I shoot them out of my beo and they have performed well on deer and pigs. Bottom line to me is for what I would get out of one there just to expensive. If a 50ae was sitting in the showcase used for 500 bucks it would be awful tempting. but any more then that and ill spend the money on something a bit more practical. A 44 wouldn't interest me because I already have so many 44s that some sit for years without being shot. I don't need another that about needs a wheel barrow to haul around.

[6bg6ga]

Very well put. My Desert Eagel 44 mag with scope is a handful. Would I pick it up for a midnight intruder? Nope, I'd grab my 1911 or Model 23 Glock or a simple 9mm. Nothing with a light or laser. Any pick I would make would be much more accurate in my hands than a Judge and certainly less likely to lock up.

[cpaspr]

I was debating several years ago about whether to get a .44 Mag or a .45 Colt revolver. Over two successive weekends in January I found over a hundred pieces of brass in the brass buckets at the range for .45 Colt. That decided it for me. Bought a .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible Blackhawk and been loving it ever since. Over the preceeding 10 years or so I'd found maybe five .45 Colt cases and 2-3 .44 Mag cases. Everybody I've ever seen shoot the .44/.45 revolvers at the range saves their brass.

I figured someone got a Judge for Christmas and was just blasting away. Not being a "serious" .45 Colt revolver, they weren't a reloader and so no reason to save the brass. My gain!

[buckwheatpaul]

Dont have a Judge but have shot them....bought a Governor and I shoot 4 Critical Defense 2-1/2" .410 loads with 2 Critical Defense 45 Colt for my home combination.....in the field I carry 4 7-1/2 loads of .410 with 2 45 colt rounds for snakes and other critters......

[str8wal]

Dont have a Judge but have shot them....bought a Governor and I shoot 4 Critical Defense 2-1/2" .410 loads with 2 Critical Defense 45 Colt for my home combination.....in the field I carry 4 7-1/2 loads of .410 with 2 45 colt rounds for snakes and other critters......

What kind of groups/patterns do you get with a Governor?

[buckwheatpaul]

What kind of groups/patterns do you get with a Governor?

Most of my shooting is done at 35 feet or less with 45 acp or 45 colt.....decent accuracy with both 1" to 1-1/2"; 410 Critical Defense is great (wanting to try them on a wild hog---will report on the results when I get to); 7-1/2 410 snake loads are good to about 20 feet.....I just really like the gun due to the my needs.....plus the versatility: 45 acp; 45 colt; 45 scofield; and 410 all rolled into one package.....