dies made for lead wire

[georgeld]

Ok, finally got to where I could stand long enough on these torn up knee's to make up these dies last night and today. Here's how I made them.

Started with: 1 1/2" all thread, pcs 2" long.
Center drilled, then drilled one size smaller than desired finish bore dia.

Two of the five I've finished, were drilled in a couple larger steps in part way.

Decided the angle that looked good solely by how it looked to me, ground a 4" long 1/4" sq HSS lathe bit to cut along the left side about 1 3/4" cutting edge and pointed the tip to clear the smallest hole: 113".

Hand fed until the base of the die was just a 1/16" wide rim, that left about half inch of drilled hole on the top end of the die. Then drilled it to desired size's. I made 8 pcs of die, IF I jack one up it can always be drilled out to a larger size later and start over making another smaller one. I intend to make wire to fit a .17 cal bullet core.

Put one in the press, oiled it up, hammered a 1# ingot til it would fall thru the bore of the press chamber. Turns out my jack is not the 12 ton I've said before but, just a 6 ton so if anyone's offended by my misquoting, please accept my apology here and now.

Not enough jack power has me hung up again, but, sure looks like it's gonna all work as planned.
I do need to polish the dies bores and guide taper better. Am sure that will help, but, 6 ton jack is not going to be enough pressure. Hope I can afford a 25 ton the right size. That should be enough to either do the job, or warp the frame and I doubt that part as it's pretty darned heavy duty.

To help screw the dies in and out I drilled two holes in the top face to fit a grinders spanner wrench. Seems to work fine so far.

More info after I get a bigger jack.

At this point I've got $18 in all thread, and $50 in machining I couldn't do myself. I had all the material on hand except the drill pipe and that came from a scrap bin I raided at my steel supplier.

Don't have any prints, but, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the die design from the above description. Taper in the guide end is somewhere about 45-60%. I just guessed at what looked good to me and turned out to be just about right.
I wanted the slug to go into the taper and not be blocked around the rim any more than could be avoided if any. I didn't look up inside the bore after the die was in place. I will when the slug is taken out.

I just got a new camera last week, need to figure it out yet and will send Buck the pics to post once I get them taken and learn how to send with this new computer and new camera. May need help on that as I'm dumber than S--t at times.

[454PB]

I'm looking forward to your pictures. Your description has me a little confused, so pictures would help a lot.

[georgeld]

Dam, thought I described it well enough anyone could "see" it.

Just a cone taper cut into one end of a 1 1/2" bolt face that has a hole drilled all the way thru it.

Does that help any?
am sitting here thinking about getting that camera out right now.

[454PB]

Yes, I got the basic "funnel" design, I was more interested in the machining process and press.

[georgeld]

Hey pard, you've gotta be clear when asking me what you'd like to know. One thing I'm not is a mind reader even though I've tried for yrs.

The press is just two legs of 2" Sq tubing, bottom: 2" solid sq welded up.
For the top to hold the 2" dia drill pipe w/1/2" walls, one end threaded ID to take the 1 1/2" all thd dies. turned a rod to barely slip fit into the bore to be used as the pushing ram.

Top bars of 3/4"x 4" flat I had milled out on each side 3/4's the depth to match the 2" dia of the bore that's about 6" long. Drilled a 3/4" hole on each side to clamp that pipe down, but, it's tight enough it'll hold without the bolts.

Just screw the dies in the top, shove a slug of lead up inside, slip the ram in place, set the jack under it, squirt some oil in the wire hole and jack 'er up. Like I said, 6 ton jacks not horse power enough. That's where I'm at yet. Have been doing other things more important and haven't bought a bigger horse jack yet. Am starting to run short on cash again, so might be after payday. Depends on price though. Thinking of getting a 25 ton. As heavy as the frame is built I doubt even that would bend it. But, we'll see once I get there.

Explained the machining fairly well I think. Cut it on a lathe with a long 1/4" bit ground to cut two inches long on one side. Just set the compound and tool rest at the angle that looked good and hand fed it til it was cut to the depth I wanted.

Don't want a flat surface to push against, so the opening end of the cone goes out to where there's only 1/16" rim around it. I believe that may be flush to the ID threads of the lead chamber but, didn't look inside before I jacked a one pound ingot in there. It's sitting like that yet.

anything else, or is this not clear enough?
I've taken some good pictures of it, but, still trying to learn the camera yet. Supposed to have a coach but, no show.

[georgeld]

Well, I've run into wire die swaging problems now.
Bought a 20 ton jack as the 30 ton is way too tall and costs $80. Don't know if they have a shorty 30 t or not.

20 was hard to work, had to use a cheater pipe on the long handle and that was to run a 1lb ingot cold thru a .400" wire die. The wire came out looking great though. Don't believe it bottomed out fully and had 15" of wire and don't look like there's any voids in it.
2" of jack ram = 15" wire from one one pound ingot. Pretty good I think.

Anyone have a bullet die ready to use this size of wire?

Ok, looks like I need some suggestions again.
The ram I made must not be tight enough in the bore. It's jammed up in there tight. Believe to get that tight there must be lead swaged down along side the ram.

The ram sticks out of the bore just over an inch and I've drilled a 1/2" hole thru it and have a rod thru it. Am trying to figure out a way to press the bore off the ram now and empty it. Need to do something diffrent, or better.

Don't know if I have 1 1/4" rod left to turn a new ram or not. Should I get a stick of larger dia drill rod for the ram? Should that be harder than hot rolled round?

Should I torch the side of the bore tube? It's half inch thick. How hot should I get it?

Can't unscrew the die either. What's the chance of lead swaging into the threads of the die?

Am just about fed up with messing with the damned thing and thinking of putting it up for sale for what I have in it and let someone else fight the petty problems. Just thinking about it so far, haven't decided to yet. No way to send pictures though so it would be a sight unseen situation. Expect it's over 25lbs for the frame and dies which still need to be polished better yet. I'm willing to consider suggestions from anyone.

Who was it had the frame set up in the pictures a few months ago? What power of jack was used on that setup?

Thanks much for ideas.

[KTN]

Who was it had the frame set up in the pictures a few months ago? What power of jack was used on that setup?

Thanks much for ideas.

I have posted pictures of my extruding tools.You can find them on page 4, "20 ton hydraulic press" thread.
Jack on my setup is 12 ton.
That ram must fit die perfectly,or it surely jams tight.I'm in a same situation as you,ram is jammed in to die (third time:roll:).
First time it jammed because I forgot to lube that lead ingot.That jam was solved with my usual methods (brute force,ignorance and BIG hammer).
Second jam (after about 100 ft of extruded wire) needed blowtorch to melt the lead ,and I believe heat warped die slightly and next lead ingot stuck again[smilie=b:. It's been sitting on my workbench since.I'm going to open it up just enough to make it round and straight again and make a new ram for it (as soon as I find some time)
What steel did you make your die from? Mine is made of soft steel that I had lying around and it's 2" in diameter but it still expanded little under pressure.



Kaj

[waydownsouth]

how about a two piece die body next time make it so that the top of the die body can be unscrewed and the ram pushed through the die body means a bit more machine work but should solve the problem of the stuck ram and make it easier to clean.

[georgeld]

KTN:
Read my other thread about the dies I made from all thread. Pretty well explains it.
Bore section is drill stem pipe, half inch wall. Hard as hell stuff. Doubt anything has warped yet.

Believe the ram might be either hot or cold rolled shaft. IT fit within .0005", maybe that's not close enough. I did oil the ingot, bore, ram and die well, then once it was started I filled the cavity with oil from the extrusion hole.

Blow torch? Not many people have a clue what an honest to God blow torch is. Do you? OR are you referring to a oxy/acet welding/cutting torch?? Thats the source of heat I intend to proceed with next. I'll go easy enough on the heat, just enough so the lead melts and runs out of the extrusion hole. But, will not fire up the die itself, only the bore.

Don't believe a two piece die would work the way I've designed this. Next time I'll coat the threads good with anti sieze though, count on that much.

am still trying to decide how to press the bore/die unit off the ram easiest. Believe that would be much better than turning the rose bud loose on it all.

Thanks for the replies. KTN: I went back and looked thru your posts, reread and looked at your pictures before my first post here. Not a whole lot of difference between them really. Size of bore because I planned to use ingots already made by the thousands. Just hammer the edges down a bit so they'll drop in. and of course a larger hammer than yours. Smaller one just wasn't big enough to do anything with.

[shooterg]

In that old NRA(?) book the guy cast his ingot into a cylinder that (with use of handle made from big hose clamp and 2 file handles, went directly to the press as part of the die. He measured PSI's while pushing wire at different temps, of course warmer pushed easier.

[dominicfortune00]

Blow torch? Not many people have a clue what an honest to God blow torch is. Do you?

I know!!

A blow torch is a torch that you put a liquid fuel in, gasoline I think, and pump it up like a Coleman stove to pressurize the fuel; which is sprayed through a nozzle and burned.

On some of the Three Stooge movies they use them.

[waydownsouth]

one of these perhaps

8757

[bigbird1]

Can I ask a very bumb question? what is the lead wire used for? is it a type of bullet making ? just wondering

[45nut]

The lead wire goes into a copper cup, the two are set into a swaging press and squeezed under pressure into one. That is your basic jacketed bullet.

[Southern Son]

Waydownsouth, mate, they bring back memories. My dad was part owner of an old wooden half cabin. Every year he would slip it and me being young a silly, I helped him strip the old antifouling and apply the new coat. I don't know how many hours I spent scraping burnt antifoul after dad scortched it with one of those. Probably lead based paints, too, which would help explain alot of things now.

[georgeld]

By damn you do know what a Blow Torch is!!

Not many do it seems. I do, as Dad was a pipe fitter and did a lot of Lead pipe joint Wiping.
I tried it a few times, results sure didn't turn out as nice as his though. But, they never leaked.

Mom used to make his wiping pads from old pillow cases, or sheets about 1/4-3/8" thick then he'd wax them up real good so the solder wouldn't stick to the cloth.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

---------------------

Been doing other things since I locked the ram in the bore that day. IT's still that way. Haven't been back to it yet. I'm kind of short on torch's around here at present. Oxy/act, or acetylene/air plumbers torch is most likely what I'd use as it don't get hot enough to destroy steel very easy.

[Leadsmith]

I have the Corbin wire swaging outfit on a hydraulic press, the cavity is about 0.8 inch diameter and will take a lead cylinder 5 inches long (14 to 15 oz), press capacity is around 12 tons. Even on this rig enough good lubrication is important. Lanolyn and castor oil mixed together is hard to beat, and not enough lube makes it hard even on that press. The top plate is 1" steel and it bends when doing the smaller wire sizes. The smaller the wire the more pressure is required and the warmer the die gets. The die can get too hot to handle after a few sticks have been done. The end of the cavity (where the wire die is) is square bottomed, no funnel shape at all

The only other thought I have is if there was a way to use the jack to pull the plunger out as well as push it in would probably take care of the stuck ram. Some way to move the jack over to the side, retract the ram, put a plate under the jack that had a rod connected to the ram and the jack push on the wall of the die and the plate below connected to the ram.

Corbin's wire dies drop into the end of the chamber and there is a retainer plug (hollow to let the wire out) that holds the die in the end of the chamber. That way there are no threads exposed to the high pressure lead.

Hope this helps,

Bob