Win 1892 44-40 re-barrel

[Pioneer2]

I'm having a 92 24 1/4" octagon rifle re-barrelled .The new pipe is 1-28" twist ,.428.6" groove and button rifled.Will I be able to shoot cast of of this ? How hard should the lead be and what size bullets would be recommended. Would like to drill a deer with it this fall or perhaps a spring bear here in Alberta Canada.The original barrel was sewer pipe quality with no rifling left so I didn't really wreck a collector piece.Will retain it to sell with the gun when I'm done with it.Not a rookie with guns but little experience with casting so bear with me on that one.

[Outpost75]

I would load as large a cast bullet as will chamber easily. Most important is to measure the NECK diameter of the chamber so see how much release clearance you have. With Starline brass of 0.007" wall thickness you want a .445" chamber neck diameter to provide safe release clearance for a .429-.430" bullet, which you can buy readily off the shelf, and works well in most .44-40 rifles and revolvers.

[Pioneer2]

I'm using Win brass .007 so same same then? Hardness of 1/20 1/40 or #2 ?

[Outpost75]

1:40 tin-lead is suitable for full charge loads in the .44-40 and will give good game performance.

If you do not yet have a mold, I can recommend the Accurate 43-230G, which has given me wonderful results in the Marlin 1894S and a Rossi '92 clone, using 22-24 grains of IMR4198. This load is NOT suitable for the older Winchester 1872 and clones, but is a healthy, "full charge" rifle load for the 1892 Winchester and 1894 Marlin.

211434

[Outpost75]

I'm using Win brass .007 so same same then? Hardness of 1/20 1/40 or #2 ?

Yes. 1:40 is recommended. See my other post.

[Pioneer2]

Thanx boys,the smith must have been bored as I dropped the gun and barrel off at about 2pm and he just phoned me at 6pm to tell me it's ready to be picked up!Any suggestions for barrel break in or that it's button rifled?

[Outpost75]

I would just clean it in the normal manner and then go shoot!

[Pioneer2]

What kind of velocity are you getting with 230gr cast and IMR 4198 in what barrel length?Is it a GC bullet ? OAL 1.6" or less for reliable functioning in a 1892?I have lots of that powder on hand but was previously using IMR 4227 in a commemorative 94 with good results.

[Outpost75]

What kind of velocity are you getting with 230gr cast and IMR 4198 in what barrel length?Is it a GC bullet ? OAL 1.6" or less for reliable functioning in a 1892?I have lots of that powder on hand but was previously using IMR 4227 in a commemorative 94 with good results.


Plain based bullet. Crimp in front crimp groove to feed in 1892. Get 1600 fps from 20" barrel, 3" groups at 100 yds. with open iron sights, shots through both shoulders of deer broadside with thumb sized exit. Good enough! Also works in Ruger Vaquero.

[Pioneer2]

And likely you can eat right up to the bullet hole..........sounds good!

[Idaho Mule]

This looks fun. I look forward to hearing results. JW

[Pioneer2]

Would also like to replace the full buck horn with the tiny U rear sight with a flat top version with a square partridge type to let some light through.Original sights are stupid priced .Almost what I paid for the gun.The front is not original but a tiny brass beaded Lyman.That's gotta go too with something I can see.Any suggestions other that peeps.Not drilling no holes.

[yeahbub]

Would also like to replace the full buck horn with the tiny U rear sight with a flat top version with a square partridge type to let some light through.

OY!! I hear ya on that one! I never understood the strange predilection for sights which are incapable of precision and are designed to obscure the target you're about to pull the trigger on. Maybe it's me, but that bead covers up a lot of target at a hundred yards. How do you know the target hasn't moved in the meantime? An idea I'm playing with is to get a Skinner "Reliable" and JB-Weld it on top of the '92'S bolt at the rear where it won't interfere with the extractor or anything else and it's the right distance from my eye. That and a straight blade front and I'd be good to go, max sight radius and all that. I don't want to drill holes either. Dry ice or a hair dryer can pop it loose if I don't like it.

[Outpost75]

Marbles #95

212070

[Pioneer2]

Was thinking of the flat top #66 long [.300-.510] and a 3/32 gold bead 34W .344 high hopefully that will line up.An original Win flat top is $250 NFL [ not friggin likely]Found a rear sight 100 miles away and of course they don't have the front in brass only 1/16 fiber optic ! Too small for my eyes and John Wayne would not approve.The #95 is a folder for tang sight use as well is it not? May keep an eye open for a silver .350 original front sight or go Rocky Mt brass/silver.I have the latter on my Grandpa's 38-55 1894.

[Outpost75]

Modern #95 is not a tang sight, but flat-topped open rear for 3/8 dovetail, adjustable for windage and elevation. See the pic!

[TXGunNut]

Would also like to replace the full buck horn with the tiny U rear sight with a flat top version with a square partridge type to let some light through.Original sights are stupid priced .Almost what I paid for the gun.The front is not original but a tiny brass beaded Lyman.That's gotta go too with something I can see.Any suggestions other that peeps.Not drilling no holes.

I suspect the tang is D&T'd for tang sights if you're open to that option. If you don't need peeps the Marble sight is hard to beat.

[Pioneer2]

I believe the #95 sight folds forward out of the way so a tang peep can also be used for longer pokes.I don't wish to drill any new holes by installing a tang as mine is untapped .I'll just stick with the Marbles Flat top long 66.Hopefully a 3/32 bead isn't too fat to fill the entire notch on the rear sight about 20" between the sights fore and aft.Can't really work out loads until I have some suitable sights.

[Pioneer2]

Tried some .429 200gr cast and the results were nothing to write home about with 8gr Unique.May try to go up to 10gr and see if that helps.Same bullet and 21.5gr of IMR 4227 was NFG as well.With Speer 200gr Gold Dot HP's and 22gr of IMR 4227 -2 1/8" 3 shot group.Button rifled barrel may not like cast? Will try some .430 cast and start from scratch.With my 1-28 twist what bullet weights will it stabilize ? Original 44-40 was like 1-36"

[indian joe]

Tried some .429 200gr cast and the results were nothing to write home about with 8gr Unique.May try to go up to 10gr and see if that helps.Same bullet and 21.5gr of IMR 4227 was NFG as well.With Speer 200gr Gold Dot HP's and 22gr of IMR 4227 -2 1/8" 3 shot group.Button rifled barrel may not like cast? Will try some .430 cast and start from scratch.With my 1-28 twist what bullet weights will it stabilize ? Original 44-40 was like 1-36"

Pioneer --- me thinks you is in too big of a hurry - slow down ol mate you get there quicker in the end - 1) no use tryin to shoot a decent group with crappy sights - fix that ... 2)check yr gunsmiths work - was it a good quality barrel in the first place? - is the heasdspace correct? - fitup to the action clean and neat?, chamber is tidy? - all that .. its a sad fact of life that a lot of jobs that come out of the shop quick (be it paint shop or engine repairs or lathe work) end up goin back to get fixed - have seen two winny rebarrel jobs where the barrel shoulder didnt fit properly to the action body - wouldnt shoot worth a **** - till they were pulled and re done 3) maybe you need to do a "breakin" - heres the procedure from Shilen's

"You hear a lot of information about “breaking in” a new barrel, what process do you recommend?
Basically, the “break-in” process is to prevent premature powder and jacket fouling problems from an overzealous reloader or hyper prairie dog shooter. We suggest cleaning after every shot for the first 5-10 rounds; then after each 5 shot group for the next 50 rounds. To maintain your best accuracy life, clean after each 15 shot string."
might not need to do it but hey -- no harm done

3) slug the bore and measure properly and make sure your lead boolit is fit
4)how does the magazine tube and forend fit? that can be a factor in how well a lever gun shoots
5) go for middle of the road loads till you get it working (I would be looking for no more than 1500fps with a 200grainer to start off)
6)stability? its a 44/40 - original loads ran from 190grains to 217grains at blackpowder velocity - I have an early uberti 66 with the 1:36 twist - it will tumble a 225 grain boolit past 100yards - shoots 200 fine (blackpowder) - your 1:28 should handle those 230 grainers ok but maybe not with a light charge
spend some slow careful time at the reloading press - three of each combo is enough to tell ya whats going on - then go shoot - slow and careful .

[Outpost75]

It may be that your cast bullets are simply too hard. In my slow twist .44-40 rifles I use soft 8-10 BHN alloy such as 50-50 wheelweights and plumber's lead with 1% tin added to improve fill-out. Might also tame loads back to about 1300-1600 fps and you will do better. Case full of RL7 compressed as if loading black is stellar.

[Pioneer2]

How much Re#7 for a 200 gr cast would you suggest? I have Lee /data for RE#7 and a 240gr cast 22.2gr at 1230 fps to a MAX of 23.5gr for1290 fps. The rear buck horn sight was swapped out for a Marble flat top so now I can see before I even bothered shooting it. A local commercial caster has the NOE bullet 220-230gr you suggested in .430 so I will order a 100 before buying a mold.I have Re#7 , IMR 4198 ,Unique + IMR 4227 on hand.

[Outpost75]

Fill the case full so that you are compressing the charge 1/8" with the seated bullet, exactly as if loading black powder. About 26 grains with 200-grain bullet 1350-1400 fps.

[Pioneer2]

Will try that thanx. The smith is a local barrel maker from back when the earth was flat, Ron Smith who makes LH gain twist barrels for the 1000 + yard boys as well as varminters/hunters.There is a 3 year waiting list for his barrels . Only guy in Canada that re-bores rifles.I trust him to know what he's doing as he has a soft spot for old guns and dropped what he was doing to swap my barrel out in mere hours.It shoots fine with jacketed so now i just have to figure out a cast load for plinking and maybe deer or black bear this May.Although the 200gr Speer Gold Dots look nasty with the cavernous HP.

[Outpost75]

With IMR4198 works nicely, about 22-23 grains approximates the 1350 fps velocity of the RL7 load using the .430" 200-grain Hornady XTP, or 200-215 grain cast and is safe in the 1873 Winchester.

In a strong action like the '92 or 1894 Marlin I have loaded as much as 28 grains IMR-4198 compressed with 215-grain FN .430" from Matt's Bullets, and that gives 1700 fps from a 20" barrel, or 1640 fps with the 200-grain Hornady XTP, a +P load for modern rifles only!

Velocity of .44-40 Winchester loads in Rossi Puma, '92 Winchester clone, with 20” barrel:

Ammunition____________________Vel@15ft, Sd, ES
Winchester 200 JSP factory load____1158 fps, 18 Sd, 51 ES

Handloads in Starline cases, with Remington 2-1/2 primers

Remington 200 JSP, 24.5 RL7______1355 fps, 22 Sd, 74 ES
Hornady 200 XTP, 28 IMR4198_____1642 fps, 20 Sd, 63 ES
Matts Bullets 215 LFN 28 IMR4198__1701 fps, 12 Sd, 41 ES
Matt’s Bullets 215 LFN 7.8 Red Dot__1273 fps, 15 Sd, 57 ES
Matts Bullets 215 LFN 35 Goex 3Fg__1172 fps, 28 Sd, 98 ES
Accurate 43-230G 7.2 Bullseye_____1167 fps, 8 Sd, 25 ES