"I don't get no respect." Good guns with overlooked virtues

[rintinglen]

211286
As the title suggests, this thread is for those guns that for various reasons were snubbed or sneered at by various cognoscenti over the years, but which had pretty good qualities. Sort of like the sweet natured lady whose plain appearance concealed the fact that she was a neat person and a great cook.

My entrant is the venerable S&W M&P, the original, not the plastic pretender. Although it was dependable, reliable and capable of excellent accuracy, the Model 10 as it was known in the later part of the 20th century fell into disrepute. Not powerful enough, didn't have adjustable sights, didn't hold enough rounds: to hear some folks tell it, the poor sap whose department or finances restricted him to carrying one had simply better make arrangements with a mortician, for he was surely doomed if he got into a gun fight.

My take is that there is no better weapon for the non-dedicated firearms user.
Yeah, it's "only" a 38, but a +P 125 grain load or a 158 grain FBI load will get the job done. The examples often given were of tragic failures, but guess what? There are no magic boolits or guns. And for every every officer whose life was lost through his gun failing to stop his attacker, there were scores who made it home because their lowly 38's had done the trick.
True, it only holds 6 rounds, but 6 is enough, if you can shoot. Missing a bunch more times gets you no more benefit. And those projectiles have to end up some where.
Also, there is no denying that the manual of arms is simpler than that of the square gun bottom feeders that have replaced them. For the person who doesn't have time, money or inclination to master an autoloader or a hard-kicking magnum, you'd be hard pressed to make a better suggestion.

And my money is where my mouth is on this one. This pencil barrel, DA only, M-10-5 was formerly owned by the Singapore Police department and Purchased by me for the princely sum of 99 dollars about 23 years ago. It is the gun that protects my home.

But what guns do you have that deserve better press than they have received?

[FergusonTO35]

I would have to say, anything in .32 Auto. I have read that John Browning said it was his favorite cartridge. Anybody can learn to shoot this cartridge and it is surprisingly potent with European ammo or smart reloads. Don't even bother worrying about hollowpoints, you aren't gaining anything with them. This cartridge is at its best with a plain FMJ or lead slug at 800-900 fps, where it's mild recoil and good accuracy really shine. This little cartridge typically penetrates quite well for it's size also.

[Texas by God]

Total agreement with you both. A M10 M&P on my hip and a FN 1910 7.65 in my pocket and I'd walk thru the valley of the shadow of death.

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[EMC45]

How about .32 S&W-L revolvers? Very capable and accurate guns that get passed by.

[Texas by God]

I will add the Ruger P series autos to your high performance/low respect list. I paid $275 for a used P97 .45 five years ago and it hasn't bobbled yet. I had a P89 that ran the same but it wasn't as accurate as the .45 so I traded it away.

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[JWT]

My S&W 10-8 is one of the last I would ever part with.

[maxreloader]

Unless this is a revolver-only thread I'll enter the Winchester Model 1910 (401wsl/sl)

[Green Frog]

How about .32 S&W-L revolvers? Very capable and accurate guns that get passed by.

I agree with EMC45 wholeheartedly! If the 38 special gets no respect, our little I- and J-framed 32 revolvers seem to get active disrespect. I'll keep carrying my little I-frame "Hand Ejector Snub" in 32 S&W Long, and feel well armed, not for doing battle with the hordes (that takes large guns with lot of ammo and preferably lots of friends who also have large guns with lots of ammo to prevail) but for day-to-day threats on the street. Rintinglen is absolutely right about the K-frame service revolver (or even its smaller 5-shot J-frame brother the Chief's Special) being battle proven over the decades to get the job done for seeing that their bearers make it home if said bearers do their job as they should, and the same can be said of the 32s... a whole lot of it is in having a gun at hand that the user can... use! As they used to say at the end of roll call on NYPD Blue, "Be careful out there!"

Froggie

[EMC45]

I agree with EMC45 wholeheartedly! If the 38 special gets no respect, our little I- and J-framed 32 revolvers seem to get active disrespect. I'll keep carrying my little I-frame "Hand Ejector Snub" in 32 S&W Long, and feel well armed, not for doing battle with the hordes (that takes large guns with lot of ammo and preferably lots of friends who also have large guns with lots of ammo to prevail) but for day-to-day threats on the street. Rintinglen is absolutely right about the K-frame service revolver (or even its smaller 5-shot J-frame brother the Chief's Special) being battle proven over the decades to get the job done for seeing that their bearers make it home if said bearers do their job as they should, and the same can be said of the 32s... a whole lot of it is in having a gun at hand that the user can... use! As they used to say at the end of roll call on NYPD Blue, "Be careful out there!"

Froggie

I would carry my Model 31 snub today and feel perfectly armed. Loaded with RCBS 32-098s over 2.7gr. Bullseye and I'm good. It is a super accurate gun and 6 shots to boot!

[FergusonTO35]

I frequently carry my little S&W 637 with 148 grain Lyman wadcutters at 712 fps.

[GhostHawk]

211338211339

I just bought this little pair of H&R revolvers. The little nickel plated girl is saying she needs something different. But the little blued one is a smooth shooting nice little gun.

Now I have SA 1911's, 9mm auto's, but the muzzle blast on those really messes with me for some reason, and the recoil is a bit more than I like.

That little H&R 732 with the Lee .314 90 gr cast over 2 grains of Red Dot was just a pure pleasure to shoot. And it with a bit of learning it went where I pointed it.

I have less than 300$ for both guns, plus a little shipping and FFL of course. Still pretty darn reasonable. I bought 500 rounds of new starline .32SW Long brass. Which should last me for a long long time.

3-4 cents for a small pistol primer, couple of cents for 2 grains of Red Dot (if that) and some 70 of those bullets per pound of lead that I paid maybe a buck and a quarter a pound for.

That's cheap enough shooting for this penny pincher. I had a blast today at the range, shot 12 through each gun, and put 10 rounds through my little Pheonix Arms HP-22a "car" gun. Which put 10 shots into a 2" circle with my elbow leaning on a sandbag.

Yeah, life is good. I like those little guys.

[MT Gianni]

I have a pair of High Standard Sentinels 22 9 shot revolvers that have been abused and are still accurate.

[Tom W.]

While I do love my SRH .44 mag, and feel happy with a 1911 .45 ACP, in getting to like 9mm pistols. I'm getting older and have neuropathy, so I can't feel too well with my fingers anymore. I may just get a 9mm revolver to accompany my model 19-4 Smith, and just sell my Glock. I found out today that I can no longer disassemble it, because I can't feel what I'm doing.

Sorry if I got out of line here.

[Bigslug]

I've got to throw out top-break revolvers in general, and the Webleys in particular. The concept was dealt two death blows; first, in the arrival of the autoloader, and second in the somewhat irrational and largely smokeless-driven quest for bigger/faster/harder/farther.

If not for those two death blows, the mechanism strength would have doubtless been improved somewhat eventually, and the 700-ish FPS upper limits could have been exceeded. . .but then, would they truthfully have needed to be? In spite of his long range exploits, Elmer Keith would have admitted that 600-yard precision shots are not really what a handgun is for. If you accept that a handgun's purpose is to sock the other guy at 50 feet or less while the grunts with the thousand-yard capable rifles are otherwise occupied, the slow heavies do the job.

And the top break gives you full ambidexterity, automatic ejection, and a breech held conveniently open while reloading. Its a species I wish had time to evolve a little more before it went extinct, but my old Brits give me a lot of joy.

[samari46]

I bought a Model 10 heavy barrel almost 25 years ago for $100. I had asked the dealer if he had any police turn in model 10's. Had one of the salespeople pull out a large cardboard box that was full of them. Spent about a half hour going through them. I handed him a copy of my buddies FFL and paid for it to be shipped back here in Louisiana. Not bragging about the price while that was great a nice model 10 HB was a grail gun for me. She's more than paid me back in just the sheer joy of shooting it. Then a model 14 target masterpiece and model 15 combat masterpiece over the years were added to keep the model 10 company. Love the K frame size revolvers and the only 357 magnum I own is a 1975 vintage Colt Trooper III with 6" barrel. That is one scary accurate revolver. I scored a spare parts kit on ebay and the dealer sent it to the wrong person. I got his stuff. Called him up and asked what he would take for some of the springs in the kit. Sent his stuff back with the money for the springs I selected but he kept the sideplate from my kit. Still worked out ok as I basically got everything except the frame. Almost mint Trooper III barrel and cylinder, trigger,hammer assorted small parts. Never shot cast bullets in either 38spl or 357 mag. One of these days. Thanks for the memories. Frank

[Texas by God]

The Raven .25 auto. Ugly, dependable, and accurate. I'll say the same about Hi-points.
Heritage Rough Rider.22 single actions. Taurus and Rossi revolvers( I've never seen a bad one).

[GhostHawk]

Texas I agree, I have a Heritage Rough Rider in .22lr/.22mag switch cylinder. Dead nuts dependable.

My Hipoints are pretty much the same way. I only have the one pistol, 9mm. But 3 carbines in 9mm, .40sw, and .45acp. Really like the way that .45acp shoots.

[Earlwb]

The Grendel P10 .380 ACP pocket pistol is probably a odd one to run across. At the time it was unique in having a 11 round capacity for a small compact pistol too. Fixed magazine though. They didn't appear to make it for very long though. They made it for about three years. But at the time it was impressive with a 11 round capacity. You could use .223 stripper clips to reload the little beastie using an adapter too. it is still smaller and weighs less than some of the current .380 compact pistols on the market. It was maybe one of the first handguns to use a plastic frame too.

A pic of my example:
211370

[Thin Man]

Just about anything in 25 auto and 22 Short only - auto or revolver. These calibers can and have killed people with correct bullet placement. The first murder trial I sat through involved a killing with a revolver (22 Short only) and a single hit to the back of the head (attempted robbery case).

Many years ago I was at the Chattanooga PD firing range during a handgun qualification for patrol officers. The agency had a policy of "no back-up firearms" and the officers had a practice of "get to the end of your shift alive." Their issue sidearm was the S&W model 10 (yeah, it was that far back). I watched as an officer fired his revolver empty and attempted a fast reload. When he ejected the fired brass out of the cylinder, one casing flipped under the ejector and tied up the reload sequence. This was a timed stage of fire and the officer had to get his shots fired within the allowed time. He shoved the revolver back into his holster (as far as it would go with the cylinder not closed completely) went to his shirt pocket and engaged the target with a 25 auto. He emptied the clip into the target and put the small pistol back into his shirt pocket. The range officer started screaming at him - "You qualified. Now get off my range and get that **** thing (25 auto) outta here." The officer smiled and nodded to the range officer and left the range. While the range officer did not want to get involved in a violation of agency policy, he probably was happy to see that the officer was proficient with his work tools.

[FergusonTO35]

The Raven .25 auto. Ugly, dependable, and accurate.

Those Ravens were good guns for how little they cost. A lot of coppers used them as backups, and they provided cheap protection to many who couldn't afford anything else.

[Outpost75]

I would say anything in .32 ACP, .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W.

Bad-mouthed and disparaged, but still utilitarian and useful. Great small game guns which could and would be pressed into the HD role if that's all I had at the time.

Obligatory "eye candy"

211373211376211377211386

[murf205]

211388 Here is my no respect gun (one of them). but I wouldn't sell it for love or money. A little 32 Long Hand Ejector that shoots cast better than I can hold it. Perfect bore and bought from a guy who was raising $ for a magnum. $225 and it went home with me.

[EMC45]

Nice one Murf.

[Drm50]

I have never herd anyone bad mouth a S&W m10. It was probably the most issued revolver in the
world for law enforcement. The design was also the most trouble free and better than Colt PPs
that would have been their competitor at the time. Simple to operate and durable. It is a service
gun not a target pistol but I have never seen one that wasn't reasonably accurate. I have owned
dozens of them, all used and never had a bad one. You can argue over 38sp but compared to 9mm
what is the beef other than its not 17 shot. The 10 is a first rate revolver that I wouldn't be afraid
to depend on. I don't own a 10 presently but have several 17s, 18s, 14s & 19s which are basically
the same gun with adjustable sights in 22-38-357. They are Cadillacs of American D/A revolvers.

[FergusonTO35]

Biggest problem with the .38 Special was, and is, when ammo companies try to turn it into a .357 or 9mm. Meaning, ultralight bullets at high velocity. It's hard to do this effectively while staying within +P pressure specs. Usually they try to pull this off with a flimsy JHP that has the sectional density of a pillow. In the 6-8" test barrel the ammo companies use, this might work but not in the 2-4" barrel that most .38 Specials are fired from nowadays. These high pressure loads also have a habit of stretching frames and bending cranes.

I think the best approach with this cartridge is to quit trying to make it into something it is not and take advantage of the inherent virtues of the .38 Special. Meaning excellent accuracy, mild recoil and muzzle blast, ability to fire a very heavy for caliber boolit. The FBI load with a 158 grain lead hollow point at 850 fps has long been seen as the gold standard for this round, however I see no reason why a semi-wadcutter or flat point at lower velocity couldn't also produce good results. Even sedate full wadcutters fired from snubnose revolvers show comparable or even better penetration than +P hollow points, and are much easier to shoot.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I'd agree with Ferguson here - I LIKE the M&P 10 as a weapon, the 38 Special beats many rounds for SD but it's not a 12 Gauge in terms of power - So use that accuracy in your favor. (Better yet, keep from needing it by not walking in downtown large cities at 2 am!)

[birch]

I will probably get whacked upside the head by many on here, but I had a Taurus Ultralight in 38 special years ago. I ended up trading it off, but it was a fine little revolver and If I ever run across another for 250 dollars, I will have another.

[jimb16]

I love my Victory model .38 sp Smith. I call it the "radar gun". Most accurate revolver I've ever fired. And I have one of the Heritage .22 S.A.s. Out of the box, I couldn't keep 3/6 on paper at 21 feet! Sent it back to the factory. They replaced a BAD barrel. Now it keeps them all in the black at 25 yards! Things like that can give any gun a bad reputation.

[three50seven]

I nearly bought a very nice S&W 10-5 at a show a couple weekends ago, and I would have had I not ended up with a Marlin 1895G....I have a few other Smith's and I would really like a basic model 10 "just because."

As mentioned also, the .32acp deserves more credit than it receives. I carry a little Kel-Tec P32 everywhere I go. I've had a couple of the micro .380's and was never satisfied with the accuracy, the .32 is a different story. I'm amazed every time I shoot this little thing!

[FergusonTO35]

I will probably get whacked upside the head by many on here, but I had a Taurus Ultralight in 38 special years ago. I ended up trading it off, but it was a fine little revolver and If I ever run across another for 250 dollars, I will have another.

You do know that right now you can get a new Taurus .38 for under $250.00, right? My local shop has 'em in stock.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Last year I picked up a very inexpensive used current-manufacture Taurus 85, with the yuck parkerized-ish finish and the strange rubber stocks with bull image. It looked very ugly compared with old-manufacture models with nice wood and bluing. BUT, the ugly stocks fit my hand, the action was smooth, the gap was small, velocities were high---everything worked great. I sold it because I couldn't stand looking at it; but it worked great.

[gwpercle]

Star Model PS 45 acp. Mine was stolen in 1990 and I still miss it.
No grip safety , pivoting trigger (like a revolver) , exposed extractor and would out shoot a Colt Commander and Gold Cup. It did have a magazine disconnect but that never bothered me. I really like the no grip safety feature .
Gary

[Texas by God]

You mean the Star PD, right?
You are correct on them being an exceptional pistol. Mine would shoot right alongside anybody's Colt AND eat ammo they would choke on!

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[9.3X62AL]

Many of my favorites have appeared above.

I had occasion to place a S&W Model 10 derivative to good use in August 1981 at work. There are VERY GOOD reasons why the 38 Special remained a police & security favorite for 80+ years--the caliber and its platforms did an awful lot of things very darn well. My career field became suddenly enamored with the bottom-feeders c. 1985, but one persistent problem with those fat-magazine stutterguns that remains unaddressed is how perishable the skill set is that enables such systems to be superior to the D/A revolver--and how enduring revolver skill sets remain through time. I don't have a firm answer to that question.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

CZ70 in .32ACP. I really liked that one, but traded it for a S&W 19 police trade in.....which I ended up walking out of that shop with cash in hand.....

The CZ was very well used, shot like heaven, and carried very nicely. I thought I needed a magnum, and the opportunity presented itself. The M19 was a very good revolver, so I came out "somewhat" even, but still.....

[Texas by God]

CZ70 in .32ACP. I really liked that one, but traded it for a S&W 19 police trade in.....which I ended up walking out of that shop with cash in hand.....

The CZ was very well used, shot like heaven, and carried very nicely. I thought I needed a magnum, and the opportunity presented itself. The M19 was a very good revolver, so I came out "somewhat" even, but still.....You're coming out more "even" every day on that trade[emoji6]

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[500Linebaughbuck]

a 50-70 government single shot pistol.
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8515/9859628_1.jpg?v=8CD28A55E373820

http://www.icollector.com/Remington-model-1871-commercial-Rolling-Block-pistol-50-70-centerfire-in-fine-to-excellent-condi_i9859628

[GhostHawk]

I beg to disagree 500Linebaughbuck.
Any Remington Rolling Block gets nothing but respect from me.

I would love to have one, they tend to be above my price range other than parts missing turkeys.

Dang nice example .50-70 in a pistol. SWEET condition.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with the smith 38 opinion but make mine a 15. I shoot a lot of 38s and many different levels of load and bullet designs and adjustable sights are worth the few bucks more a 15 cost over a 10. I also agree with the guys opinions on the 25acp. Some would have you think they will bounce off a man. I had a little berretta and with factory ammo using gold dots it would punch through 3/8s plywood which is a bit thicker then my skin!!

[500Linebaughbuck]

I beg to disagree 500Linebaughbuck.
Any Remington Rolling Block gets nothing but respect from me.

I would love to have one, they tend to be above my price range other than parts missing turkeys.

Dang nice example .50-70 in a pistol. SWEET condition.


i would love to have one too!!!

[Cheeto303]

I would have to agree that the S&W Model 10 is a very capable revolver. I would have no problems defending my property with one. I have a Colt Official Police .38 Spcl. which would be the M10's equivalent that I love dearly. Someday I'll come across a S&W M10, But I do have a S&W Model 12-2 which I carry occasionally. (My wife bought it for a birthday present 4 years ago for me,she paid only $170.00 and it's very nice. She's good.)I am also comfortable with.32's. I have a S&W 30-1 .32 S&W L (w/original box and paperwork),Colt Police Positive .32 New Police Ctg.,Colt Police Positive Special .32-20,and a Walther PP 7.65 Browning (w/original box and paperwork). I occasionally carry each of these. The Walther in particular is a very nice shooter. At 7 yards I can place all 7 rds. in a group the size of a walnut from a draw.I also have a PP in 9mm Kurz (w/original box and paperwork). Both Walther's are 1960's Interarms imports.Opp's I almost forgot the Ruger Single Six .32 H&R Mag. It is fantastic.

[Petrol & Powder]

You'll never hear me say anything bad about the S&W Model 10. Some uninformed folks may not give it the respect it deserves but that doesn't mean much.
Along that same revolver line, about 32 years ago an acquaintance of mine went to work for a police department. They issued him a Ruger Service-Six. He complained that it was so old that it rattled. I looked at the gun and it was about 5 years old and in pristine condition. The "rattling" sound was from the cartridges in the cylinder. I told him that gun would work just fine and not to worry.

As for other guns that get no respect (and deserve a lot); The H&R "topper" single shot model 158 shotguns, the Winchester model 37 shotguns, almost any old Remington .22 bolt action rifle, the Taurus model 85 revolver and the Charter Arms Undercover and the Colt 1903 pistol.

[Petrol & Powder]

Oh, and the H&R revolvers in .22 and .32 !!

[Orchard6]

Unless this is a revolver-only thread I'll enter the Winchester Model 1910 (401wsl/sl)
I second this!

[Cheeto303]

You'll never hear me say anything bad about the S&W Model 10. Some uninformed folks may not give it the respect it deserves but that doesn't mean much.
Along that same revolver line, about 32 years ago an acquaintance of mine went to work for a police department. They issued him a Ruger Service-Six. He complained that it was so old that it rattled. I looked at the gun and it was about 5 years old and in pristine condition. The "rattling" sound was from the cartridges in the cylinder. I told him that gun would work just fine and not to worry.

As for other guns that get no respect (and deserve a lot); The H&R "topper" single shot model 158 shotguns, the Winchester model 37 shotguns, almost any old Remington .22 bolt action rifle, the Taurus model 85 revolver and the Charter Arms Undercover and the Colt 1903 pistol.

I have a 200th Anniversary Ruger Security Six Stainless 6"bbl. It is a great gun. Very accurate, and handles better than a GP100. Although I'd take a GP100 in .44 Spcl. I can't understand why people don't like them.

[DirtyJack]

My cousin gave me a Jennings. 22. I was surprised at how accurate it is. Once I got the diet worked out, it has become a favorite toy.

[Texas by God]

The Astra 300, 400, and 600 may be ugly, but they are dependable and very accurate and built every bit as well as any pistol ever. The machining on them is amazing. All the Star pistols are great as well. The Argentine Ballester- Molina and 1927 FMAP .45s are great, too.

[Drm50]

I was at a gun auction several years ago. The Brady Bill was still in effect. This put a damper on
sales of low end guns. People didn't want to pay $50 for a gun and pay Brady Fee. I started
buying up low end handguns for trading stock, especially 22s. I always checked these guns out
for function and safety before dealing them. I got a Unique m52 22 pistol. It was ugly and heavy.
I was amazed at the accuracy, it was minute of pop can at 25' functioned smoothly and shot any
ammo you put in it. I kept it several years for my beater 22. I only got rid of it because I aggravated myself carrying it when I had a dozen top shelf 22 handguns.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll second the Star pistols.

I picked up a cheap Star Super B (1972 manufacture) and after a little work it turned out to be a great 9mm pistol.

[am44mag]

Might as well throw the Colt Army Special/Official Police in to the mix. It and the Model 10 are in pretty much the same boat. My 1917 Army Special had been carried for who knows how many years, and still shoots and works beautifully.

[Dan Cash]

Might as well throw the Colt Army Special/Official Police in to the mix. It and the Model 10 are in pretty much the same boat. My 1917 Army Special had been carried for who knows how many years, and still shoots and works beautifully.

Same goes for my 1914 Army Special .32-20. It is my every day carry ranch revolver. Wonderful gun and built stout while other guns were still flinching at black powder pressures.

[Eddie17]

Own three Jennings 22s, only one spits out bullets straight. Fun little guns though!��

[Walkingwolf]

Those Ravens were good guns for how little they cost. A lot of coppers used them as backups, and they provided cheap protection to many who couldn't afford anything else.

My wife has a JA380, and a JA22, as well as a CF380. The three of those guns have never failed to feed, fire, and function through boxes of ammo. Her new Glock 22 broke on the 10 round of factory ammo. She still owns the Saturday night specials, and the Glock was sold after Glock replaced the frame.

My FIE E15 took 30 years, and bricks of ammo before it finally broke a pawl. Heritage pawl replacement and it is still shooting.

[rintinglen]

211959 S&W 39-2
Here's another dandy that got a rough reception back in the day. It is a DA/SA, so it was the answer to a question that no one asked. It only held 8 in the magazine, so it didn't qualify as a wonder nine. It had a magazine disconnect, so if you lost a magazine, you had an unwieldy club. Despite all that, it was my personal weapon for several years as an alarm response agent and my home defense choice when my children were small. I removed the magazine and put it in one place, while the pistol lay under a hat on the top shelf in my closet. If something went bump in the night, it was only a few seconds longer to locate the mag and shove it home than it was to find the gun in the first place. And the knowledge that between the mag safety and thumb safety, even should my inquisitive and smart daughters climb up and get the pistol, they still wouldn't make a horrific, fatal error. Although I can't quite shoot it as well as a 38 of comparable size, it is still plenty accurate enough to deal with most any real world problem that comes along.
This gun has several thousand rounds through it and still shoots well.

[FergusonTO35]

I've had a bunch of J-22 and JA-22 pistols. All of them were surprisingly accurate, at least as much as any other short barrel .22 I've tried. Biggest problem with these things is non-functional extractors. The hook isn't sharp enough or misshapen, the recess in the chamber isn't deep enough, or the extractor spring has no tension. Also, the OEM mags are pretty sorry: horrendously cheap and no aftermarket alternative. Fortunately you can usually tweek the feed lips enough to get them to work.

I'm a big fan of cheap guns that work really well. The price of inexpensive but not cheap guns like Taurus, Kel-Tec, and even Ruger has come down to the point that they have eaten up most of the market share which formerly was Saturday Night Special territory.

[EMC45]

My buddy keeps trying to convince me to daily carry my .32 S&W-L 3in. Hand Ejector I Frame. Those little guys get very little respect, but were the mainstay of defense for decades before folks found out you need 20 rounds in a magazine or that you had to have a super magnum.

I may just start to carry it.

[GhostHawk]

I am quickly turning into a big fan of the lowly .32SW Long cartridge.

Brass is not expensive, thrifty on lead and powder, easy to load, fun to shoot.

I found a pair of speed loaders for my little H&R 733 nickle and 732 blued revolvers.
Nickie and Blackie just kind of acquired their names quickly, wiggled right into my heart.

[FergusonTO35]

Very nice! An ancient hand ejector with peeling nickel and questionable timing in .32 S&W Long was the first handgun I ever fired. For some reason, every time I fire the .32 S&W Long it feels more powerful than ballistics would suggest.

[Thin Man]

Another vote for the S&W "I" frame 32 revolvers. A friend has 2 of these that I am trying to buy from him. One is faded, light pitting, action won't cycle, either the hammer or trigger stud is about to fall out (these are threaded into the frame), and generally looks like a basket case. The other one looks almost unfired. Go figure. We have been talking on and off on this sale for about 5 years with nothing more than talk being accomplished. I already have a 32 "I" frame, 4" barrel and shows carry wear but functions correctly. With one better and one worse in the offering, they would look like 3 generations of the same family if laid side to side.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I hardly ever see anything written about my favorite carry revolver for the hot weather we enjoy here in Las Vegas. I have a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug 2.5" bbl, blued, no hammer spur but can be single action if wanted, Barami hip clip grips in .44 S&W Special.

This has an alloy frame with steel bbl and cylinder of 5 shots. With the plastic hip clip grips I can carry this under a tee shirt and it will not print yet it is available now! Normally I carry it with Hornady 185 Gr jacketed hollow point ammo and this round runs about 975 FPS. The recoil with this light weight slug is very manageable. Bumping up to a 240 gr LSWC hollow point (Thanks Mihec) over a charge of Unique powder of anywhere from 4.0 to 5.4 gr gets you a very powerful and effective self defense round.

However you have to pay for it. The recoil at 4 gr is more than the Horndady 185 gr but light enuf to not slow down in rapid fire. As you go up the ladder it gets worse. At 6 gr you will not want to finish off a cylinder full. It hurts! At 5.4 gr you can handle it and get a decent score but your grip must be perfect and you must focus intently.

I do not use my reloads for street carry as to do so might invite another some nasty questions from a lawyer which I do not like giving any quarter to when it is my butt that might end up behind bars.

This is an overlooked revolver and you hardly see anything written about it. It is accurate, light, dependable and inexpensive. I bought mine offa Auction Arms for about $200. The ballistics are nothing to sneeze at and I feel well armed when out of the house. It is a proven killer, just ask David Berkowitz (Son of Sam).

[Cary Gunn]

Gents,

In my opinion, the tiny North American Arms mini-revolvers deserve much more respect than they get. They are so small that they can be difficult to shoot accurately, but the guns themselves seem capable of remarkably precise shooting. The problem is usually the shooter, and a lack of practice. But, the revolvers' .22 rimfire ammo makes practice easy and cheap.

Some of the models in the large NAA stable of choices are easier to shoot than others, and I find the NAA "Black Widow" model a beautiful, rugged, accurate gem. With it's relatively large grip and decent drift-adjustable sights, my Black Widow easily produces well-centered, 3-inch, five-shot groups, offhand at 15 yards. I'd feel very greedy and unappreciative asking for much more from an 8-ounce, 2-inch-barreled handgun that disappears in a jeans pocket.

It makes a great little "always there" companion piece for plinking or pot-shooting. And, while I wouldn't recommend it for defensive use, it's hard to argue with the concept that "any gun in the pocket beats a bigger one left at home."

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[FergusonTO35]

I would love to see NAA bring out something like the old S&W I frame.

[Walkingwolf]

I would love for a NAA .32 pocket revolver.

[rking22]

I had an Naa 22mag that put 4 out of 5 bullets sideways at 5 steps. Seems I maybe should give another one a try. May have been a fluke.
My vote is the older Rossi revolvers, I have a 511 that actually shoots better than the m63 smith I used to own. I came across a m69 in 32SWL, 3 inch and seems a copy of the I frame. It also shoots fairly well even with undersized bullets, it needs .314 and I only had .312s loaded. Gonna see what it will really do when it's a bit warmer. Will see how my 31-1 does with .314 bullets too so they can share ammo. A side note, it's throats are closer to each other in size than any of my Rugers and all but my 1919 vintage k frame. They did (?do) a decent job of machining and fit.

[MFGordon]

My choice for a good gun that gets no respect is my Smith & Wesson SW9VE otherwise known as the Sigma. I've had mine for 6 years. I was looking for a cheap 9mm pistol at the time and the Sigma was about half of what new Glock cost. Since then I've shot about 8,000 rounds through it, almost all cast reloads. It's handled 150 grain semi-wadcutters without a hitch and once on a whim I loaded full 38 wadcutters and got three in a row to feed.

My Sigma has been reliable and accurate. It routinely shoots better than many much more expensive polymer framed pistols and its long heavy trigger pull is smooth and not unlike that of a double action revolver.

[FergusonTO35]

The S&W SD series is just a Sigma with different looks and somewhat better trigger pull. I think the SD is probably the best bargain in handguns anywhere: a Smith & Wesson 9mm or .40 auto pistol in stainless with two mags for $300.00 or even less if you shop around. I'm thinking about getting an SD40 to keep company with my Glock 22.

[rintinglen]

I agree and concur with MFGordon on the Sigma Series pistols, I Had a 9 MM Sigma that was an excellent, reliable pistol. I shot a possible on our qualification course with it, which so impressed a co-worker that he had to buy it, so I sold it for more than I paid. I would gladly buy another one.

[Texas by God]

The NAA mini with the folding grip is just flat out neat. The .44 Charter is good- especially the original 3" non shrouded ones. The m39 Smith is very respected in my world and the SV9E is a hell of good gun for the money.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Earlwb]

I used to have one of the NAA .22LR mini's. When I was doing police work, I used to volunteer for those in training to practice traffic stops, etc. I would wear it like a necklace and we would see if anyone would find it during the weapons pat down search. Amazingly enough, everyone missed it too. it was a good lesson for them to learn about it. None of the trainees even knew such a gun existed before then either.

[curioushooter]

I would say any ordinary lever action rifle, like a Win 94, Marlin 336, or Mossberg 464. Especially if it is in 30-30. Cause it can't do 'nuffin. Gotta be a 12 gauge or an ought-six bolt action.

I have always been impressed by the everyday accuracy and utility of these guns. But everybody is after that sub-MOA group that these rifles just can't manage it is said. Never mind that most of these folks can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside it unless they have it on a lead sled or bipod.

[FergusonTO35]

Some lever actions will shoot sub-MOA, my cheapo Marlin Glenfield 30 is one of them. .30 WCF is a very accurate cartridge, the half mag tube and lack of barrel bands on this particular rifle really help.

[Nueces]

I agree with Crash about the little Charter 44s. Had one of the stainless models in a 3" heavy barrel that was my sleeping bag gun on many mountain trips. I put a cylinder full of the Elmer Keith heavy load through it, to verify it's strength. But, as happens a little too often, I sold it to a friend who then moved away. That was maybe 20 years ago and I have never seen another one like it for sale. It had the sorta double action only hammer that was grooved on top for hand cocking. No hammer spur to catch inside a sleeping bag.

Tonight, at our gun collectors meeting, a buddy sold me his stainless target model with a 4" barrel. I verified the barrel to be one piece, not shrouded, and checked the lockup. No Python has ever locked up tighter than this little 44. So, here it sits, ready for it's in-briefing tomorrow, consisting of cleaning and throat measuring. I think it will like that new NOE RG4 mould in a 215 grain hollow base wadcutter.

Another use for a small big bore revolver is as a game retrieval tool. I used to load 44 shot loads using the Speer shot caps for coaxing a downed quail out from under a cactus. These little beauties make good snake guns, too.

[smkummer]

I would say any ordinary lever action rifle, like a Win 94, Marlin 336, or Mossberg 464. Especially if it is in 30-30. Cause it can't do 'nuffin. Gotta be a 12 gauge or an ought-six bolt action.

I have always been impressed by the everyday accuracy and utility of these guns. But everybody is after that sub-MOA group that these rifles just can't manage it is said. Never mind that most of these folks can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside it unless they have it on a lead sled or bipod.

Curioushooter beat me to the punch. I was going to say pretty much the same thing. For years it seemed every pawn shop or used gunshop had these on the racks. Just like the S&W 10, it doesn’t mean they are bad guns. It means they are good useful popular guns that for whatever reason ended up for sale. If it had to do it, a 30-30 would kill anything on this continent with a fast follow up if needed. And remember during the last ammo shortage, 30-30, 243, 270 and some other non-military calibers, was still on the shelves.

[GhostHawk]

I came late to levers, I just never really "got" them.

Then one day there they were at the pawn shop. A pair of Win 94's in .30-30.

In the end I bought both for just under 1000$.

The "good" one, the pre 64 WWII era built in 44 has a badly tapered shot out bore with a bad constriction at the rear sight dovetail. And IS going to go to JES one of these days to get bored into a .35-.30-30.

The cheap one, the post 64 cross bolt safety angled eject is a shooter. Stuff that tube full of flat nose rounds and tear it up. I have a neoprene sling on mine. Lever is wrapped with camo paracord. One of the first things I discovered was you need to work that lever with authority.

That was a little hard on the backs of my knuckles, hence the wrap.

The more I have shot and played with it the more I see its potential.

I agree, most Win 94's in dirty thirty don't get no respect. And they should. They have been over the hill and down the river and back. They get that second, third, 4th shot faster than anything other than an autoloader.

[curioushooter]

I've gotten 2 MOA groups consistently out of a Mossberg 464 off a bench with scope. Usually have some in the tube, and 464s have barrel bands. I am no sure that it really matters much. I had a Marlin 1894 with a hanger front and no band and it shot worse. I think the rigid nature of 30-30 factor ammo as far as OAL goes and the non-throats of these 30-30s go a long way towards their everyday accuracy.