???? re:swapping rules

[charger 1]

Putting this out to the populas for opinion. Our rules for swapping state that violation will result in banning. Thats fine. There are two types of members here. A guy who may for example be prepaid to the tune of maybe a 100 or more bucks, and on the opposite side the guy who dont own a bolt in er. Do we treat em both the same? Ban em both the same? No warning, no refund. The guy who's chipped in is worth nothing more, or doesnt differ in any way. Some give because they have bags of bucks, some cause its in their heart. I would like to think that if a guy gives money, goods, time, etc. Whatever he gives that hurts to give he cant be indescriminantly sent packing like the guy who can pick up and go without loss. Not only unfare but one of those guys is less likely to brake rules than the other. Can anyone guess which?

[357maximum]

There is built in exception to every rule...that is why the word "can" is present I would venture to guess.



"Rules: NO spamming ,no degrading posts on sales threads, must be a member of 30 days OR with 25 posts. Privileges to post here can be revoked for abusing the above terms. Thanks!"

[charger 1]

Your guess may be accurate:confused:

[VTDW]

Rules for swapping?:confused:

[imashooter2]

I believe he is referring to the fallout from the Rainyday Dillon ad over in Swappin & Sellin. A short timer with 8 posts (6 in the S&S) got into a bit of a tiff when someone pointed out that his price was too high. There were several posts that violated the "no degrading posts" edict. Those posts (one of them mine) were later deleted by management and the new sticky was added to S&S. I'm not aware that anyone got banned.

[charger 1]

I believe he is referring to the fallout from the Rainyday Dillon ad over in Swappin & Sellin. A short timer with 8 posts (6 in the S&S) got into a bit of a tiff when someone pointed out that his price was too high. There were several posts that violated the "no degrading posts" edict. Those posts (one of them mine) were later deleted by management and the new sticky was added to S&S. I'm not aware that anyone got banned.

IF you and I both got banned. and you were a contributor and I not, would there be a difference?

[imashooter2]

IF you and I both got banned. and you were a contributor and I not, would there be a difference?

Of course there would be a difference. One of us would be out money.

But look at this from the management perspective... Are you going to allow people to buy the ability to violate the rules?


ETA: Here's something I never considered... How do you go about turning off the yearly automatic PayPal charge for Team Boolits? Guess I better toe the line.:)

[mike in co]

IF you and I both got banned. and you were a contributor and I not, would there be a difference?


sorry...but what is your problem ????


no one buys privelige here to my knowledge.

i am a contributor, and i have been told several time that some of my posts were marginal and for me to fly straight or be banned. i believe that since this is a private forum, with volunteer management, every attempt is made to be fair, and not heavy handed.

besides, once the site has your money....you cannot get it back....

sounds like a non-issue, that someone is trying to stir into an issue......

and completely not gun nor cast boolit related.

mike in co

[dromia]

All members here are on an equal footing, contributors to the site get no extra privileges other than those clearly offered with level of contribution.

There are also many others who contribute to this site and don't want to wear the contributors badge, there are others who contribute it ways other than financial.

All members have the same level of value to the site and to each other, so long as they obey by the rules of courtesy and decency required here.

This thread is not helpful in the slightest Charger 1.

If you require any further clarity on this I suggest that you PM one of the staff.

If you don't like how the place is run, then there is no duty upon you to continue visiting.

[45nut]

We try and try and try to work with somebody rather than take drastic irrevocable moves such as banning. That just remains as a last ditch option. Not counting spammers the banned list for this forum is about 8 people out of over 6 thousand. none were banned offhand and without multiple offenses and warnings. Being a ******* is counterintuitive to the goal of gaining membership, friends and knowledge we can all learn from.
I would much rather work with someone than against them, until, they have just made it clear they have no intention of being reasonable. Reason is still practiced here. Many folks have gotten warnings and agreed some of their posts were out of line and subsequently become some of our most fervent supporters. Is it so difficult to just be friendly and welcoming?
Conflict is so prevalent in this world as to be nearly impossible to avoid, I simply hope this forum to be a refuge from that. Is that too much to ask?

[wiljen]

My feelings on the issue of paid sponsorships and their place on the board.

1.) I was not told to contribute, I chose to because I find this board to be worth supporting.

2.) Based on my reasoning for contribution, I have a vested interest in obeying the bylaws of the board because I wish to continue to learn and enjoy being here not because I'd be out $50 or $100 if I didn't.

3.) The average sponsorship here is about $40, less than 1 tank of gas, 1 good meal on the town, 1 ticket to a sporting event, or 1 box of premium ammo, certainly not an amount that I expect to buy me favoritism.

4.) Would I buy the right to break the rules were it for sale? Nope, the rules level the playing field for all of us and I expect no different treatment as a moderator than I did as a member or a guest.

Wiljen

[Gunload Master]

I see the best option here... Let's get rid of the "swapping / selling section".. "Benefit auction section"... Uhm.. Hell.. Why don't I just pull the plug on this entire forum? I'll go in and delete everything about this forum.. Why? Because management is getting rather tired of all the people on here fighting all the time over pidley dink sh**.

Listen up please. This place is getting over 5,000 people coming through here every day. With that kind of traffic, rules need to be in place. Management has to come up with regulations on what the best way is to run this place. We learn through trial and error. We are not professionals here trying to run this place, we are shooters that would like to share exprience and have a good time, not sit and argue. We are all entitled to our opinions. If something get's out of hand, the moderators have to step in and calm down the situation the best we know how.

I have never asked for a donation to help pay for this place, I never will. I have been asked multiple times to make this place a PAID forum, meaning you have to pay for a membership in order to participate. That will never happen Period. This place is not about making money and supporting our families. It's about providing information and a great meeting place for people all over the world to enjoy. I accept donations and have created the Subscriptions as a way to help pay for this place as it does cost money to fund. If you would like to donate here it is greatly appreciated. If you don't want to, that's fine, it's your choice and your not going to be treated any different if you decide not to. That's about as fair as it could be right?

For the swapping / selling section. Rules are set in place. 25 posts or be a member for 30 days and you can post your stuff in there for sale or swap. If a member thinks his mould is worth more then a new one.. So be it, go on to the next one and avoid it, but we don't need to cause hate and discontent for everything we see wrong in here. If you have a question about an item someone is selling that you think might not be approprite for a public post.. Send that individual a Private Message addressing your concern.


I hope this message helps bring to light a few aspects of what's going on in here. And please if you have questions that you would like to send to me, use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page, the message goes directly to me and maybe I can help work through some problems you are having as I have dealt with many people over the last few years.

And I appologize to anyone who might take offense to this post as well, as i'm sure a few will...

[jjamna]

I know that this thread may have got started in a bad way I don't know the details. One good thing about it is I just ordered a subscription. I did not know they were alvailable. I have bought from the site benifit auction be fore paying more than what the item sells for new but it was the benfit auction. I do not expect to be treated any different than anyone else. If I post something out of line PLEASE TELL ME. I have had trouble with my temper on other websites (1 top be exact) (one name after a mans facial hair) but never here. All that I have dealt with have been 1st class people. I would like to keep it that way.
Repeat--- If I get out of line plaese tell me If I don't straiten up GIVE ME THE BOOT.

I sure hope this one is not out of line if so please delete

[JohnSmiles]

I have been threatened with being banned on several boards(this board NOT being among them), all for the same reason: at some point I did not play well with the 'privileged pets' of the administrators.
(It is rumored I have a habit of being rather direct, opinionated, outspoken, and rather passionate about certain topics . . )
[smilie=1:
In other words, I did not back down when challenged by teachers pet.
I never was banned, but stopped posting on all 3 of the major Indiana hunting boards.
I seldom ever even visit any of them anymore.
I stopped posting in the 'humor & off topics section' of this board also because a post of mine was deleted that I felt should not have been.
Right or wrong, I won't post where I feel the scales are tipped.
And I won't get any farther into that issue, as it was stated simply to make a point:
DISCLAIMER
I say this from my viewpoint only, and it is not meant to reflect the views of any others on/running this forum.
DISCLAIMER
No one HAS to post here.
It is your choice.
This is a great board guys.
It is far better than any other board I have been a part of.
If you have issue with how it is run or issues are handled, get over it or feel free to take your toys and go home.
Or, go start your own board like I did.
(Maybe your board will have a stronger following than mine developed . . lol)
All boards have bad apples, and this one has the fewest, bar none, for the number of members.
So far, in every aspect of my dealings with other members, I have been given far more than I have yet returned.
Everyone is more than willing to help out, loan out, sell out, etc. anything they can to help others.

So, if you want opinions, here is mine:
If the current rules overly concern you, then you are either reading something into it that isn't there, or you are simply upset because a contributing member has more to lose and therefore less likely to burn his bridges.
The rules are clear and fair enough.
"May" be banned leaves a bit of room for allowances.
Is this 100% fair to all?
Nope, sure isn't.
The guy who had 1 'off day' should not be in the same boat as the guy with a chip on his shoulder having an 'off day' or two every month.
Is a new member more likely to get canned over the exact same thing as an established and contributing member?
More than likely yes, to some 'small' degree.
If it were my call, it would make a small difference.
But, and understand this, it would only make so much of a difference.
If you would care to experience favoritism on a board looks like first hand, I can give you the url's of 3 or 4 hunting boards.
I can honestly say I had a far, FAR higher respect for my fellow hunters BEFORE I started posting/reading what many had to say on the Indiana boards.
Nuff said.

[charger 1]

And I appologize to anyone who might take offense to this post as well, as i'm sure a few will...

Not by I. Copied and filed. Got it. Thankyou

[Lloyd Smale]

I too have been banned on a couple fourms. One ar fourm and one 1911 fourm and a hunting fourm. I was banned by one just for posting the word **** in it. They said it was a family fourm and that wasnt going to be allowed. No warning no second chance. I told the fourm owner that it was joke. How many kids live there lives so sheltered that they dont see the word **** in writing somewhere or hear it on the street or home. Im one that speaks my mind. If i dont agree with someone im going to tell them. If it gets me banned, so be it, i probably didnt belong there anyway. As to the classifieds thats a differnt game. Ive seen people get ripped off by people that sign up for a forum just to scam people. If anythng that rule should be even more severe. It should be that a poster needs to be here for 6 months and have at least 50 posts before he sells. Or at least have someone trusted on this board vouch for him. As to slamming someones add or complaining about the price. That my freinds is just rude. Just because you can buy a gun for x ammount of dollars doesnt me joe blow got it for the same price. If you want it buy it if you dont keep your flipping mouth shut. to me if your the type that would do something like that i dont want you arround anyway. I think people that do it should be banned imediately, no second chance. As to contributing. If i got banned tommarow ive gotten knowlege and advice off of this forum that i couldnt put a price on. Ive spent 50 bucks on crap that sat in the garage and was never used. I sure didnt get ripped off because i was a contributer and got banned. I got banned because i broke the rules! Even myself when i got banned from other fourms i knew i was doing stuff that wasnt allowed and got banned for it. I just figured that everyone doest think like me and theres places in this world that i just dont fit in. If you want to scream and yell and badmouth people i can give you the names of some forums that do it regularly.

[9.3X62AL]

I won't speak for the other moderators or the administrators, but I DO know that we value EVERY member here, and consider a sanction of any kind as a last resort to manage a problem or difficulty on the board. I think our percentage of member bans--1/10 of 1% or thereabouts--speaks eloquently to that mindset.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a HOBBY SITE. I can appreciate that some folks take their shooting and loading pretty seriously, and some take it a lot more seriously than I do. But let's not lose sight of the fact that hobbies are supposed to be FUN--that we pursue these avocations for enjoyment and recreation (primarily). No one has a lock on The Truth--I might think I know a truth or two, a covey of factoids, and maybe a migratory flock of tendencies--but there are a number of approaches to any question or problem faced by a cast boolit loader and shooter, so it is good to have access to a variety of avenues to pursue an answer with. THAT is why the board exists, and I am utterly amazed at the wide variety of answers that can emerge from a question posed here. We have a very good thing here, let's not let our karma run over our dogma.

[VTDW]

I treasure this site and nearly all the membership as well. That being said, I agree with Lloyd:

"As to slamming someones add or complaining about the price. That my freinds is just rude. Just because you can buy a gun for x ammount of dollars doesnt me joe blow got it for the same price. If you want it buy it if you dont keep your flipping mouth shut. to me if your the type that would do something like that i dont want you arround anyway."

"I won't tolerate rudness in a man." :mrgreen:

Once I asked on a forum's Classifieds why no one was interested in what I was selling, then and only then did they tell me my price was too high. Now that was cool. I adjusted the price and it sold promptly.

Dave

[fishhawk]

well guess i might as well chime in here also. why did i contribute? because I wanted to! no one made me no one asked me. i want to contrubute to the site not just take from it. i get no special "privliges"and expect none! and i expect to be held to the same rules as one who never contributed. if i step over the line it was my fault not the "other" guy. now to quote G.C. Scott in patton "now ya SOBs ya know where i stand" steve k

[Powderpacker]

. . . . a covey of factoids, and maybe a migratory flock of tendencies--
Eloquent - actually, the whole post is very well stated (as usuall).

[MT Gianni]

well guess i might as well chime in here also. why did i contribute? because I wanted to! no one made me no one asked me. i want to contrubute to the site not just take from it. i get no special "privliges"and expect none! and i expect to be held to the same rules as one who never contributed. if i step over the line it was my fault not the "other" guy. now to quote G.C. Scott in patton "now ya SOBs ya know where i stand" steve k

I contributed because of the anguish I felt when Shooters.com fell off of the edge of the planet. I do not want to see that happen here or be banned from it so I use my mind before my fingers in Swap-Sell.

[Heavy lead]

Sometimes we all get fired up all of us over one thing or another, we must IMO remember we are all on the same team. In this year of political change it is important to remember we are brothers (and sisters). We, I assume are all backers of the second ammendment and generally the other for sure 9 in the BILL OF RIGHTS whether we be union members, small business owners, sales people, construction workers, or politicians. We are judged more harshly than others in our society as shooters, being right or wrong, it is what it is. Don't think our struggle is any different than it ever has been. Read history it's not. We are all a team here and across this nation and our brethren across the world that believe in freedom. With freedom whether it be the freedom of speech, or the freedom to keep and bear arms comes with responsibility. We have been charged with that resposibility whether we want it or not. Let's remember this when we judge others on the forum for maybe saying something out of line. I hope people remember that when I say or do something out of line. I recently put some things up for sale, as far as I know nothing was said derogatory about myself even though I've only been a member for 50 days or so. The people that purchased stuff from me, I can only say are men of there word and class acts, and I hope they can say the same for me. There are a lot of characters here, I love a group of characters, it's like a huge hunting camp and I enjoy it immensly. Let's remember that we are all fraternaty here. And yes I contributed, both with a small donation and a Benefit auction and will again, not from any pressure, but out of a feeling of responsibility. I'm able too, but if the next guy can't I also recognize him as my brother as well regardless of how long he has been here.

[handyrandyrc]

We're guests here -- think of it as hanging out at someone's home. If the homeowner doesn't want smoking in his home, we either respect that or don't visit. If we were to light up in his house, would we have any grounds to be upset for him kicking our ass to the pavement?