.45 LC Ruger Redhawk 4" BBL: Thumbs down!

[Tom Herman]

Hi Folks,

I seem to remember someone posting and asking if anyone has had a chance to use a .45LC Ruger Redhawk with the 4" BBL.
Well, I bought one to complement the 5-1/2" & 7-1/2" bbl versions I already have.
Just as with the other two, this Redhawk is defective right out of the box.
To say that I'm bitterly disappointed is an understatement. You'd think that by spending nearly $700 on what should be a quality US made gun that it would work right out of the box.... Wrong!
Just as with the other two, the shortie Redhawk has problems with extraction.
The first two were cured by opening the chambers up a bit, and also slightly reaming the star plate so that expanded shells would both not stick to the chamber or the star plate.
In addition to the problem with the first two guns, this one has a chamber that the shell would periodically not seat all the way.
It would stick about 1/8" from being fully seated, and had to be pushed down into place.
The same chamber would be the source of problems with extraction.
Every third or fourth cylinder full of spent shells would refuse to extract. It would take a smart rap to the ejector rod to get the shells out.
To make matters still worse, the cylinder would occasionally bind for no apparent reason and refuse to rotate unless excess force was applied to it.
The supplied Hogue grips are a pleasant departure from the standard wood grips, but fail in two areas: The metal backstrap is exposed, and this conducts some of the recoil to the hand, making even midrange target loads bordeline unpleasant. Give me a set of Pachmary gripper grips anyday!
The second problem is that with the crane opened, the thicker grips interfere with using speedloaders. Again, Pachmayr grips are a solution to this.
Once the first two guns were reamed, and the grips changed, both guns became 100% reliable and a pure pleasure to shoot!
I expect after the proper amount of complaining to Ruger and a return trip, this one will work as it should as well.
Still, as I mentioned earlier, ALL of the guns should have worked well right out of the box. They shouldn't have to go back to the factory at all.
I'm using a 50/50 lead/ww alloy with 2% Tin and 8 grains of Unique. The loads are reasonable, and certainly not barn burners.
To double check, I used the same loads in the factory reworked 7-1/2" barrel, and it worked fine. No hiccups or failures of any sort.
These guns were built at least two to three years apart so it's inconceivable to me that I've had trouble with all of them.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Dale53]

Tom;
That is certainly enough to upset most anyone. A friend and I, within the first two years of production, each bought a Red Hawk in .44 magnum. My revolver worked well except for an extremely heavy and creepy trigger. I fixed that by careful stoning (had it apart a half dozen times). It has since given stellar service producing several one shot kills on deer for me.

My buddies revolver would not even shoot. He called Ruger and sent it back. It came back in working condition, but his trigger was even worse than mine. It was "tuned" and has also given excellent service since.

It seems pitiful that Ruger still doesn't know how to produce a good trigger. I have several Rugers and had to do a trigger job on each and every one of them....

Sometimes they just seem to be "do it yourself kits" but "Hell for strong" after they are tuned up.

Dale53

[Heavy lead]

That's a shame, but not suprising. Every Ruger I've ever owned has needed at very least trigger work. Most of the 45's needed the throats opened up, although I'd rather have that than too big though. I have an older RH 44 though (purchased in 87) that one gun is the smoothest, tightest, best finished, most accurate Ruger I have ever had period, I guess you get lucky sometimes. Basically when I buy a new gun, I just figure it's going to need a 20 dollar spring kit, and a 60 set of grips (I've come to prefer Badger wood grips on most everything). Sorry for your bad luck, but it sounds like you've got the problem cleaned up, get a decent spring kit for it and shoot the heck out of it, it'll smooth up before you know it.

[Lloyd Smale]

Tom the first thing id do is load that gun and go visit a dealer that charged you 700 bucks for it. If im not mistaken mine cost 525

[Tom Herman]

Tom the first thing id do is load that gun and go visit a dealer that charged you 700 bucks for it. If im not mistaken mine cost 525

The dealer had it in stock for $630, that is the cheapest I've seen them around here. Tax put it up to almost $700....
The particular dealer has a very eclectic selection of guns, a little bit of everything so that anyone is likely to find something they like in his store.
He and his staff treated me like long lost friends, while all the other stores in that town had that snooty attitude and poor selection that have become so commonplace nowadays.
Everyone needs to stay in business, and if I put a few extra dollars into his pocket to keep the ambiance going, that's fine by me.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

PS: Thanks for all of the comments by everyone. I know that once I've gone through the routine of returning the gun to the factory, I'll have something that will run like a top.
I've been lucky: All of the triggers at least are acceptible to me. -T

[44man]

Knowing Ruger's silly ideas for the .45, I have to wonder if the throats were way undersize? A clue was not getting a round to enter without pushing it in hard (Boolit nose too large for the throat?)
Pressures go way up and the case is set back to the recoil plate and sticks in the chamber from the high pressure. Now the cylinder gets hard to turn.
Another cause is when the brass expands from the high pressure, sticks without setting back to the plate and the primer backs out a little. Very low pressure loads will do this too but it does not match what you say.
Tom, when you say the chambers were opened up, do you mean just the throats? Did you slug the throats?
I do not understand "reaming the star plate" either??? What is the star plate? Do you mean that you did something to the ratchet and what did you ream?
It seems to me a simple throat reaming would have cured the problem and is common with the Ruger 45's.
The soft lead you are using just compounds the trouble with undersize throats.

[dominicfortune00]

I bet by 'star plate' he means the extractor.

Sounds like he opened up the part of the extractor that fits around the cartridges to cure cartridges that stuck in the extractor after firing.

[44man]

The extractor is the same size as the chamber. Why make it larger? There is something else at work here for brass to jamb against the extractor. The load he is using should let all of the brass fall out if he tips the gun up. I see high pressure from tight throats even with the load he is using.
To get brass to expand just above the rim and stick to the extractor means very high pressure.
Many think a light load of fast powder will not do that---surprise!!
I bet factory jacketed bullets will not do what he has happen. Tight throats do not effect jacketed bullets as much but accuracy??? Nowhere to be found.

[targetshootr]

Don't feel bad, FAs also come with heavy triggers. You'd think a company that sells guns for $1600 (or more) could take a couple of minutes to adjust the trigger. But they don't guarantee much of anything on their guns. Mine needs to go back after the firing pin broke and I get to pay shipping both ways and for the work. Not exactly a 'no BS' kind of company.

[44man]

No comment on FA! :mrgreen:

[Heavy lead]

The only Ruger 45 I ever bought that didn't have undersized throats was the SRH 454, this was right on 452, and a mid 70's BH that is 455. Anyway, I've excepted the fact that this is the way it is, and I will continue to by them because the Redhawk is a fine revolver, as is the BH and SRH. A Wolf springkit and some smoothing should take care of the trigger, and if the problem is tight throats, that's an easy fix and a fix you can customize a little. I love my RH 5.5" 44, the only way it would be better is if it was in 45 IMO.

[Lucky Joe]

I not too long ago purchased a .45 AcuSport Bisley, right from the box it had problems. When pulling back the hammer you could only pull it about a 1/4" and that was all. If you shook the revolver you could hear something rattling around inside the frame. I immediatly called Ruger they sent me a shipper and returned a fully functional gun.

I was a bit disappointed as this was the first Ruger I had ever had problems with but their customer service was steller.

[targetshootr]

No comment on FA! :mrgreen:
What's funny is when you talk to 'em they really are nice people but as a company they will nickel-and-dime you to death, like you paid next to nothing for the gun. I wish I could sell it but since it's broken it'll have to be fixed... but you can bet I'll never own another one.

:Fire:

[Tom Herman]

The extractor is the same size as the chamber. Why make it larger? There is something else at work here for brass to jamb against the extractor. The load he is using should let all of the brass fall out if he tips the gun up. I see high pressure from tight throats even with the load he is using.
To get brass to expand just above the rim and stick to the extractor means very high pressure.
Many think a light load of fast powder will not do that---surprise!!
I bet factory jacketed bullets will not do what he has happen. Tight throats do not effect jacketed bullets as much but accuracy??? Nowhere to be found.

Hi,

Yes, what I call the "star plate" is the extractor. The problem here is that the extractor holds more than 180 degrees of the shell. My S & W Model 25 has an extractor that holds less than 180 degrees, so if the the shells expand on firing, they can be extracted from the gun and fall free.
Not so the Ruger! Some shells fall free, some stick, so a slight reaming of the extractor is in order.
Some of the shells do fall free, about half. The others stick in the chamber and the extractor.
And I did measure the throats: They are sitting at .451", kinda small.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[44man]

You might ask Ruger to ream the throats but I am sure they will say they are in specs. But you never know!
My friends and I have a lot of Ruger .45's and I just gave up and bought the reamer. I hand lapped mine but it took so long I would not go through it again.
The barrel must be slugged first and then the throats opened .0005" larger. So if your bore groove to groove is .452", you want the throats to be .4525". Even .453" is good. Never had a problem with even larger because you just size a boolit to barely fit through the throats. The barrel will size them, you don't want the throats to size them.

[45r]

I had to get my 45 redhawk worked on also to get the trigger almost as good as a S&W,but it has been a real tack-driver.It will shoot 2 and 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards with it's iron sights and my eyes aren't what they used to be.I had to take it back to my gunsmith a few times before he got it to where it is now.My Ruger bisley hunter in 41 mag turned out perfect with only one trip and will shoot 2 inch groups at 75 yards with a leupold 2x.I like them both but they're triggers aren't as good as a S&W trigger.

[NHlever]

Look carefully, and see if you can determine if the chamber throats are concentric with the chambers. That could be your problem. Chambers are reamed from one end of the cylinder, and throats are reamed from the other. If they are not concentric, get it back to Ruger.

[Tom Herman]

Look carefully, and see if you can determine if the chamber throats are concentric with the chambers. That could be your problem. Chambers are reamed from one end of the cylinder, and throats are reamed from the other. If they are not concentric, get it back to Ruger.

Thanks for the tip! I hadn't even thought of that. I'll check for concentricity before the gun goes back. I called Newport yesterday and explained the problem with the gun. They were polite, and told me to ask for reimbursement of shipping charges (which I will do). So, the gun goes back later this week when I have time to ship it.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[jack19512]

I finally gave up on my 44 mag and sent it back to Ruger. Even with factory ammo I couldn't get anywhere near a decent group and the gun would shoot to the left at 25 yards even with the windage adjusted all the way. At 50 yards I would probably have to shoot to the left about a foot to hit where I wanted. I sure hope they don't send it back saying there wasn't anything wrong with it. :roll:

[Idaho]

I finally gave up on my 44 mag and sent it back to Ruger. Even with factory ammo I couldn't get anywhere near a decent group and the gun would shoot to the left at 25 yards even with the windage adjusted all the way. At 50 yards I would probably have to shoot to the left about a foot to hit where I wanted. I sure hope they don't send it back saying there wasn't anything wrong with it. :roll:


I purchased the Redhawk 4" 44 magnum and after the first 100 loads ~I was very upset!! Only 3 shots on paper at 25 yds!!!!!! Well we took the gun back to the dealer and they "bore sighted" it AGAIN ...Today we shot a box of Hornady 240 gr XTPs and at 25 yds { 3 ft low} & to the left..soo the dang gun has been sent back to Ruger

[Idaho]

This is how bad this thing shot..

After the first 10 shots~ I noticed no holes in the paper or 4X8 plywood at the range!! It was shooting in the dirt about 3 ft below point of aim..With the rear sight raised all the way? We then placed some sandbags under the barrel " to make sure" one shot hit paper and the next 21/2 ft low and left?Some shots WENT OVER the backstop and some under L.O.L!!!!This reminds me of my first BB gun after my horse stepped on it!!! wish I bought another Blackhawk

[jack19512]

Ruger has mine now. I don't know how long it will be before I will get it back. If the revolver comes back with no repairs done to it I will get rid of it and get something else. I don't know what has happened to Ruger and their products. :(

[44man]

It happens! :roll: Long ago I bought a new Mark II and at 25 yd's the paper was bare of holes. By just pointing and watching, I was shooting into the dirt right in front of me, almost like the barrel was bent down 45*.
I tore down the gun and inspected everything. There was no reason for what it was doing. The bore was straight and centered, the crown was perfect, the rifling was perfect and bore dimensions were right on. The rest of the gun was fit perfectly and tight.
I sent it back and they replaced it but never told me what was wrong.
I still scratch my head over that one. And it was at least 30 to 40 years ago.

[Idaho]

I never had ANY issue "s" with my single actions...We bought this new Redhawk for protection against large meat eaters and such in North Idaho & Montana..Since it could fire the heavy loads. To be honest~ I still like my single action more.After shooting this new gun I find myself shopping the prices of a New Blackhawk SS in 4 5/8..It will be used as a CCW gun also..If your going to carry a gun then carry a GUN..

The topic of felt recoil came up and yes this gun makes a hand hurt! My trigger finger was bleeding the first time out...I figure that money spent was a lesson learned..Buy what you know

[Dr. A]

I've got the same gun, and had chamber throats right at .451. I read where Brian Pierce had what looked like an accusport Bisley with the same diameter, and seemed to make the best of it. I shot with mine for awhile with big frustration. The rest of the gun worked fine, and I did get some really good groups with J-word bullets. The cast are what I shoot after breaking in, and I finally reamed it the other day. GOing to wait and see what I get. The reaming I've done on my Blackhawks has always worked well. I thought that since my Super Redhawks had correct chamber throats, that the new Redhawks would have them. They of course are the 454-45 colt configuration. I didn't get so lucky with the Redhawk. The trigger, incidentally is abosolutely a dream in double action, and I believe, as well as it can be in single. Its fairly easy to shoot this gun. The grip seems to make the most of the odd configuration of the Redhawk. Nothing near as nice as the SRH, but about as good as a Redhawk can do.

[Snyd]

I guess I got lucky....

I've been working up a heavy load for the 4inch 45 Colt Redhawk. 2 weeks ago I shot 335gr and 360gr CP WFNGC's. I shot the 360gr with 19gr H110 at 1050fps for six rounds. About a 6+ inch group, pretty much all over the plate. 18gr is min, 21 is max load. Today I shot loads at 20 and 21gr. I ended up at 1155fps avg for 6 rounds with 21gr H110 and tightened up the group. Probably about the best I can shoot at this point anyway. I shot 5 and then the wind blew the paper plate off the board. I put the 6th one in the midst of the other 5 though as my buddy watched with binos. Anyway I am satisfied with this load. 360gr .452 bullet at 1155fps should put a hole through any brown fuzzy in Interior Alaska at self defense range. This will be the "OH S%1T!!" round for the 4 inch 45 Colt "OH S%1T!!" gun. Recoil was not unbearable or unmanageable I didn't think. Extraction was easy, primers look good. Here are the chrony numbers and a pic of the target. I think I'm going to really like this gun. Oh, and it's a joy to shoot with 260gr Keith style boolits with 8.5gr Unique. Avg 944fps. About a 4 inch group.

360gr CP WFNGC, 21gr H110, CCI 350 primer, new Starline brass sized with Lee Dies and trimmed to 1.280. Tight crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die. I guess I need to buy a 360 LBT mould now :D
1133
1147
1198
1171
1145
1141

http://homepage.mac.com/perryschneider/.Pictures/pics/45_360.jpg

[Tom Herman]

Good group, Snyd!

I'm glad yours is working out. Mine worked well for a while, then I noticed the pin at the back of the cylinder (the one that holds the cylinder to the back of the frame) was bent. I don't know if it left the factory this way and shooting exacerbated it, or if something new has gone terribly wrong. I don't see how I could have done this in the first place, as I only use mid range loads.
It's at the smith's now. Hopefully, this will be it, and we'll be back to Pleasantville.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Snyd]

So far I've shot about 100 rounds through it I'd say. Most of which were pretty stout 335-360 gr with H110. Plus some plinkers, 255's with Unique. So far so good. I'll keep my eye on the cylinder pin.

I'm not sure I like the Hogue grip. It just feels "full", I don't know. I picked up a set of new take off standard wood Redhawk grips. I like the feel of the smaller size. I shot a few rounds and then swapped back to the Hogues. Still haven't decided. I've handled Redhawks before with Pachmeyers and they seem to fit my hand a little better. Not quite so deep. Might have to see if I can find a set on the cheap just to compare.

Now it's time to load up a bunch of rounds and just go shoot this sucker.

[Snyd]

So far I've shot about 100 rounds through it I'd say. Most of which were pretty stout 335-360 gr with H110. Plus some plinkers, 255's with Unique. So far so good. I'll keep my eye on the cylinder pin.

I'm not sure I like the Hogue grip. It just feels "full", I don't know. I picked up a set of new take off standard wood Redhawk grips. I like the feel of the smaller size. I shot a few rounds and then swapped back to the Hogues. Still haven't decided. I've handled Redhawks before with Pachmeyers and they seem to fit my hand a little better. Not quite so deep. Might have to see if I can find a set on the cheap just to compare.

Now it's time to load up a bunch of rounds and just go shoot this sucker.

[Trey45]

I have the 4" 45 colt redhawk too, no problems at all with mine, shoots great, loves 7gr bullseye with a keith 255gr lswc. Nice target load. I have heavier loads in case it's needed, but for the most part I use it for putting holes in paper. A friend of mine who shoots much much better than I do shot that load, in that gun , and had one flyer in an otherwise 2.5" group at 25 yards. I can't shoot it that well, my best group is maybe 5" at 25 yards. I can't shoot tight groups offhand like some of you guys can. I bought some new old stock wood grips for mine, those plastic abominations ruger had on them had to go. I'm happy with my redhawk, it's my 1st redhawk and not my last, I see a 44mag redhawk in my future. If I could find a 357 redhawk I'd give that a go too.

[Snyd]

...I bought some new old stock wood grips for mine, those plastic abominations ruger had on them had to go. I'm happy with my redhawk, it's my 1st redhawk and not my last, I see a 44mag redhawk in my future. If I could find a 357 redhawk I'd give that a go too.

Ya, I happened on a set complete with the grip screw at a gunshow for 10 bucks. I think next trip to the range I'll put them on and leave the hogues at home and shoot some plinkers and whoppers and see how it goes. My first Redhawk as well. I do have a Super Blackhawk though. A guys gotta have at least one 44mag! I guess those 357 Redhawks are kinda hard to come buy.

Here's my pair. Check out the difference in size between the RH and SBH. The RH is one beefy sucker. Look at the frame and top straps. I had never really compared the two side by side until I bought the RH. Look at the difference in the barrel thickness. The RH 45 Colt is on the left.

http://homepage.mac.com/perryschneider/.Pictures/sbh_srh/sbhsrh_01.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/perryschneider/.Pictures/sbh_srh/sbhsrh_02.jpg

[Tom Herman]

Thanks for putting the RH & SBH side by side!
I put Pachmayrs on all my Redhawks.. The Grippers just fit right.
The Hogues leave the backstrap exposed and that bites my hand, while the pachies fully surround the gun.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have been lucky I guess, have owned a BH 357 since early 1971, no problem.
Had a SBH by about 1972-3, no problems & it had one of the best triggers I have ever felt. Both have fired 10,000+ rounds.
Around 1976-7 got a RH 44 great gun needed a trigger job. 10,000+ rounds.
last summer got a RH 357, 2-3,000 rounds no prob. could use trigger work, but so did S&W M27 357 I had.
Met a guy with a brand new S&W 460 out of box jammed up on 1st shot, this winter.
It is true I have never even come close to 44 man's groups. But I have gotten deer w/ them.
I am a bit crazy as I like 10 shot groups.
Oh and I do not load on the mild end.

[jh45gun]

I will not buy a Ruger anymore.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Hi Folks,

The supplied Hogue grips are a pleasant departure from the standard wood grips, but fail in two areas: The metal backstrap is exposed, and this conducts some of the recoil to the hand, making even midrange target loads bordeline unpleasant. Give me a set of Pachmary gripper grips anyday!


This type of grip is popular with combat match shooters as it puts your hand a s forward as possible to give good double action control. I have this style of grip on my 686 and 63 (Stainless Model 10 Military and Police, I thnk thats the model number). I don't know if I'd like it on a big recoiler though.

[bobke]

okay, here's my tale of ruger woes with a 5.5 ss bisley. brand new gun, did the normal tune up, packed up a bunch of proven loads to the range i go and found as many of you have, shooting far off center-all over the map more accurately. tight chambers reamed .4525 without much result/improvement. more loading, more options, to no avail. restriction in front of the cone caused excessive leading that could not be improved with mild lapping. after sticking a range rod down the tube, found three chambers wouldn't rotate up to proper center. bad cylinder, bad barrel, back to ruger.

very courteous, prepaid shipping back to factory. 6-7 weeks later, back in my hands, back to the range. some definite improvements...but. tight but even cylinder that did rod up properly, but did need to be reamed .4525. barrel still has minor restriction in front of forcing cone, but better internal finish. cylinder gap now a very generous .009. .009!! fresh from the factory. better yet, barrel wasn't turned up square to rear sight(or perfectly perpendicular, depending on how you look at it), so still shooting way off target. way off. and requested new, higher front sight was installed with a center punch, not the proper roll pin punch, so left a real nice divot in front sight base. all this and still not fixed. probably never fired on a target, except to check if it'd go bang. maybe.

it's been delivered to alex hamiltion at 10ring in san antone for a turn in on the barrel, proper setting of front/rear sights and an .003 gap, which i'll cut a fresh cone w/11d cutter til i've hit a sweet spot with heavy cast bullets at moderate velocities-likely around 900-1050fps. plenty for my purposes in texas. i'm certain it will be right this time around.

gotta say, i'm about done with the truck mechanics in ruger's reassembly dept. they are crude at best, and not examples of quality control specialists, which should be the case unless they're just trying to make work and stay busy fixing their own problems. i've been a loyal ruger owner since the early 70's and have had some exemplary samples of their work over the years, but this is embarrassing in my mind. i'd like to see them return that loyalty with fine mechanical fitting and accuracy. i can live without all the aesthetics, as they don't improve how well it'll shoot-that's my primary interest. these aren't trailer queens, they're supposed to be shooters.

they'll get another chance, but i won't buy one again without taking a range rod, some presized bullets to check throat diameter and a feeler gauge and going over carefully before throwing my hard earned down for one.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That 'little' Redhawk looks good! I always fancied on in blue with a 4"Bbl and Ivory grips. I'm gonna have to get one of those one day. I have four 45Colts and two 44 mags, better get a 44 and make it a fair fight. I'd be better off with a 7 1/2" Bbl, but the 4" ones press my buttons.
Four Fingers.

[LeMat]

I've been running 300gr lead pills (generally in front of 21.5gr H110) through my 4" Redhawk for a couple of months and couldn't be more pleased.

Also been shooting a lot of 250's in front of 6.5 of Red Dot and have just fallen in love with that load!

I've had no problems using HKS 25-5 speedloaders with the stock Hogues, but have put a pair of factory wood on because I like them much more.

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp240/LeMat_photos/guns%20for%20forums/GunList014.jpg

[jh45gun]

As I posted in the ruger gone wrong post it also applies here:

The thing that bothers me is your always going to get the " I do not know what your talking about my ruger is perfect ect post" Like I said before not all rugers are bad. I do see too darn many "My Ruger Sucks Post" that does make a person wonder what is with ruger quality control. Too many post like that to make me say no more Rugers at least no new ones and if I bought a used one I would insist on shooting it first. My opinion you should not have to take a gun to some one to "FIX" it or TUNE it or Get A Trigger Job on it when it comes from the factory it should already be that way. Yea I know some guns have the lawyer proof triggers ect but that still is no excuse.

[Tom Herman]

I've had no problems using HKS 25-5 speedloaders with the stock Hogues, but have put a pair of factory wood on because I like them much more.

Hi LeMat,

I had issues with the 25-5 speed loaders working with the Hogues. I had totally forgotten that since they came off the gun right after I bought it.
Once I went to Pachmayrs, the 25-5 loader worked great!
BTW: The HKS 29 speed loader meant for the S & W model 29/24 work GREAT with the .45 LC's!
I have a mixture of 25-5's and 29's, and can't tell which is which function wise unless I actually look to see what's stamped on them.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom