Muzzle loading drop tube

[binski]

Has anybody tried this? Saw it on a Pedrosoli you tube shot. The shooter put in a drop tube, then dropped the powder charge in. If I remember right, he was loading a Whitworth pattern rifle. Do you suppose there is any benefit to this! binski

[oldracer]

Yes and now as it depends on your rifle and how you shoot it. If you look in the NMLRA website where they talk about the 1000 yard long range matches, just about everyone uses a tube of some sorts. They also generally wipe 1 wet, 2 dry after a shot and since my home range only goes to 300 yards I tried all of those combinations and in my case.....no difference. My mentor, Doug said to use a tube so I do and I have to be very careful and look down it as I have several instances where the tube got plugged and the gun only goes pffffft!
John

[kens]

I saw the benchrest guys, the slug gun guys , do that.
I never was good enough to need it.

[Regular Joe]

Where do you get these tubes? Are they homemade?

[Boz330]

Where do you get these tubes? Are they homemade?

Yes, mine is 1/4" ID aluminum tube. I just use an MTM funnel that I fitted to it. Some LR shooters just use a short one to drop the charge. Lee Shaver believes that dirt build up on the tube can cause muzzle wear ruining accuracy. I use a long one because I use the Rigby method of cleaning and it gets the powder past the fouling in the barrel.
With Rigby cleaning you drop the charge insert a wad and then clean to the wad. This keeps from pushing fouling into the patent breech which can cause a misfire.

Bob

[Fly]

Bob I got a brass one when I bought my Gibbs.

Fly

[bigted]

I also have seen this used in a muzzleloader. Always contemplated building and using one but till i mount glass on a very good rifle i see no point as my guns all shoot better then i am capable of already. When i get glass mounted on a muzzleloader i for sure will build and try a drop tube. I see the advantage and believe a weighed charge to get compromised by dumping it either down a fouled bore where the charge has to pick up some of the fouling or a slightly wet bore from swabbing where the slight moisture has to affect the charge.

I see benefit to drop tubing past any fouling and then running a lube wad or disc followed by a vegi wad of .060 + to enable swabbing the bore as explained above and lastly load the projectile.

Sounds like a fun way to slow down even more for a relaxing fun range session. ]

[Boz330]

Bob I got a brass one when I bought my Gibbs.

Fly

I had the aluminum tube from another project and figured it would be as good as the brass or maybe better because it is softer and of course not near as heavy.
Ted, the lube wad isn't really necessary since you are cleaning after every shot anyway. I went to the Rigby method of cleaning because it is faster. Most matches only give you about 3 minutes per shot and that is a lot of up & down and cleaning and doesn't leave much time to break a shot or wait out the wind. I have used both cork and felt wads and can't tell any difference. I have several friends that say the wad isn't important but my Gibbs doesn't shoot worth a hoot without it.

Bob

[waksupi]

I kinda figure when you drop the charge down the barrel, it has already gone down a drop tube. Drop tubes are only useful for loading cartridges to gain maximum capacity in a given space.

[Boz330]

To a certain point that is true, especially if you clean before loading. Most LR shooters use a long tube though, which includes most of the top notch competitors. The tube has the advantage of getting the powder where it is supposed to be without contamination or sticking to the side walls. At 1000+yd any variation can make a big difference in point of impact.
To your point though Lee Shaver and Dave Munch, 2 long time members of the US Team use short tubes. Dave Gullo, Ray Hopkins and most of the other members of the team use long tubes. Personally I was taught with a long tube and my philosophy is if it works don't fix it. For all practical purposes it isn't a hassle to use. Kind of comes under that, "more than one way to skin a cat thing".


Bob

[heelerau]

I use a brass drop tube I bought from Peter Dyson and Son , England. I use it when shooting my Parker Hale .451 Volunteer and it works a treat. Ideal when loading long range muzzle loading rifles. Mine is a first generation Rigby rifled two band rifle.

Cheers

Heelerau

[varsity07840]

Yes, mine is 1/4" ID aluminum tube. I just use an MTM funnel that I fitted to it. Some LR shooters just use a short one to drop the charge. Lee Shaver believes that dirt build up on the tube can cause muzzle wear ruining accuracy. I use a long one because I use the Rigby method of cleaning and it gets the powder past the fouling in the barrel.
With Rigby cleaning you drop the charge insert a wad and then clean to the wad. This keeps from pushing fouling into the patent breech which can cause a misfire.


Bob

They also can prevent powder bridging with a patent breech which i find particularly annoying in a flintlock.

[Geezer in NH]

For paper patched projectiles it is pretty much standard. For cloth patched RB I found no difference hence unnecessary.

[Col4570]

When loading my .565 Whitworth Match rifle I load then wipe.Working to Joseph Whitworth specs using a Hollow base Hollow Nose wooden Plug Bullet.With this method I find that the Breach is clear of damp residue.For this Rifle a Drop Tube would have little use since the powder is dropped into a dry albeit fouled barrel prior to loading the Bullet then wiping.211530
Since the Bullet is Hollow based the rifle cannot be wiped on top of a wad.The bullet is straight on the powder charge.

[Col4570]

211531
Side pour Mould for large calibre Whitworth match Rifle.It is a modified for length Lyman Mould with side pour to cast both Base and Nose cavities.After fitting the Nose Plug and trimming off the side Sprue the Bullets are swaged to size.A lot of trouble to cast some Ammo but they Hit nose on at 500 Yards and the Hollow Base expands to the Whitworth Hexagonal bore.

[Col4570]

211567
The top one takes the Hollow Base Hollow Nose Bullet.it was built in 1863.
The Bottom one is the .451 Whitworth built by Beasley Brothers who did in fact supply the confederacy.

[Huvius]

I am just now making my own drop tube and am wondering just how high above the expected powder charge should the end of the tube be?
Of course it would change a small bit depending on the chosen charge, but is there a consensus on tube length if going long?
Using it for a Pedersoli Gibbs.

[Randy Bohannon]

Make your drop tube long enough to hit the bottom of the chamber + 2". When you drop the powder raise the drop tube to about what you would expect the powder charge to fill the chamber by pinching the drop tube with your fingers to hold it where you want it.Some compression is good and my method was with a range rod and jag with the spear knocked filed off and polished .I placed my wad stack with a firm push to seat the wad stack on top of the powder,then raise the range rod about 4" and tamp the stack three times then seat your bullet. It is necessary to come up with a method that is consistently the same as you can be,more consistent better accuracy. I learned this from the Gibbs rifle shooters at Camp Atterbury 15 yrs ago, it makes a difference.
Depending on bullet the need for a some kind of lube cookie may be needed, I used lubed wool felt wads lubed with my bullet lube with both P.P and greasers.The lube wad is sandwhiched between 2 Walters .30" Fiber wads. It is a very effective wad stack on warm dry days.Your Gibbs rifle is capable of superb accuracy with time and consideration.Also to note the use of a platinum lined nipple is the single best accuracy enhancement on the Ped. Gibbs rifle.
BACO has verything you need and the only source for the platinum lined nipples.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/powder-handling-tools/drop-tubes-funnels/brass-drop-tube-with-funnel-3-pc-43-long-usa338

[Huvius]

Makes sense.
Here is mine:
9/32”, 36” long brass tube from Ace - $6.00
Plastic funnel from a Harbor Freight 4pk - $1.19

I annealed and flared the end of the tube to fit the funnel from the inside and glue gunned it in place.
When I flared the tube, it made a nice sharp edge so I don’t think I will get any powder granules hung up on it.
I figured the plastic outer funnel will be gentle on the muzzle.
Next will be to slide a .440” or so wood disc on about 3/4 of the way down to keep it centered in the bore. Don’t know if that will make a difference but it seems like a nice touch.
Then trim the tube to length.

https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/B8466EEC-4D2E-4CCF-A98D-DEA345590EE0.jpg (https://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B8466EEC-4D2E-4CCF-A98D-DEA345590EE0.jpg.html)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/1AC8C34C-6511-4FA9-A645-D88CD5AE4424.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1AC8C34C-6511-4FA9-A645-D88CD5AE4424.jpg.html)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/F2356A88-A4AC-417D-909E-0A58AD8264EC.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F2356A88-A4AC-417D-909E-0A58AD8264EC.jpg.html)

Any thoughts?
Is the plastic good or bad? I do use a similar design for dropping in cartridges and it seems to work good enough.

[Randy Bohannon]

That should work just fine, I don't think the plastic is a problem.

[charlie b]

Some plastics will generate some static that will 'hold on' to powder granules. If it does that you can cure it by washing the plastic with a detergent.

[rfd]

i guess there might be some special target oriented reasons for using a muzzleloader drop tube, maybe with chunk guns and the like. otherwise, i don't see a need at all for yer typical trad muzzy. pour down a measured load, smack the forestock a few times to settle and *compact* the powder in the barrel's chamber, load the patched ball and *compress* the powder. drop tubes are *essential* for loading black powder cartridges, however, for the same reason - powder *compaction* - then comes a wad and *compression*, followed by the bullet (greaser or PPB) getting pushed into the case mouth.

[indian joe]

i guess there might be some special target oriented reasons for using a muzzleloader drop tube, maybe with chunk guns and the like. otherwise, i don't see a need at all for yer typical trad muzzy. pour down a measured load, smack the forestock a few times to settle and *compact* the powder in the barrel's chamber, load the patched ball and *compress* the powder. drop tubes are *essential* for loading black powder cartridges, however, for the same reason - powder *compaction* - then comes a wad and *compression*, followed by the bullet (greaser or PPB) getting pushed into the case mouth.

Looks to me like a really neat solution - now we need to create the problem somehow! :veryconfu

[DIRT Farmer]

Among other reasons for a drop tube is getting the powder to the bottom of the barrel so there is nothing to catch the paper patch. The bullet and patch is a slip fit in the barrel, the patch is dry wrapped and a lost shot if the patch strips. It is a match of highly devoloped tech, the last and highest devoleped muzzleladers. There has been tests on chunk guns, most cannot find any advantage in round ball guns.

[Boz330]

It's all about consistency, what doesn't make a hill of beans at 100yd becomes a real issue at 1000+yd. For a RB gun or even a hunting gun, dumping powder down a fouled barrel probably can't even be measured, but at the longer ranges it would be measured in feet. To assume that the guys winning international LR competitions using these methods are wasting their time is sort of ignoring the actual facts. They didn't get on top of the heap by pulling this out of their you know what, without some sort of experimentation. Not unlike what most of us do when developing a ML or cartridge load.
I don't use a drop tube for 25yd or even hunting at 100yd, but 800 to 1200yd I do.

Bob

[fgd135]

9/32”, 36” long brass tube from Ace - $6.00
Plastic funnel from a Harbor Freight 4pk - $1.19
<snip>
Any thoughts?
Is the plastic good or bad? I do use a similar design for dropping in cartridges and it seems to work good enough.

This is exactly what I use for my PH .451 Volunteer. Works very well, I don't see any need for a wood spacer as that is just going to push debris down into the powder chamber.

[scattershot]

Maybe I’m missing something. Every muzzleloader I have ever shot has a built in drop tube, it’s called a barrel.

[Chill Wills]

Maybe I’m missing something. Every muzzleloader I have ever shot has a built in drop tube, it’s called a barrel.

You are missing something. A day at the long range (300y, 600y and 1000y) match would clear up a lot for you. We are not talking about Davy Crockett muzzle loader shooting here.

Bob, you are a diplomat. My hat is off to you.

BTW- I am ashamed to say, I have not tested out the lined nipple you sent me yet. I do hope to get to the Oak Ridge Creedmoor challenge recreation match if not this year then next!

[indian joe]

It's all about consistency, what doesn't make a hill of beans at 100yd becomes a real issue at 1000+yd. For a RB gun or even a hunting gun, dumping powder down a fouled barrel probably can't even be measured, but at the longer ranges it would be measured in feet. To assume that the guys winning international LR competitions using these methods are wasting their time is sort of ignoring the actual facts. They didn't get on top of the heap by pulling this out of their you know what, without some sort of experimentation. Not unlike what most of us do when developing a ML or cartridge load.
I don't use a drop tube for 25yd or even hunting at 100yd, but 800 to 1200yd I do.

Bob

Bob

Consistency is (almost) always worth the trouble -- I get that in spades

Also get where the drop tube makes sense in a long range rifle thats being cleaned between shots

Where it gets a little kooky is when half the nooby shooters that have been sitting round getting cabin fever over your winter decide to front up at the range and drop tube their patch ball guns.

Consistency -- shoot a patch ball gun over a chronygraph for a decent string and I bet any shooter very quickly tidy up their procedure for measuring powder, slapping the old girl on the cheeks to settle the load, ramming the ball with equal and consistent pressure -- a small amount of casual-ness can add 150 FPS to string variation easy - and that has got to make a difference at 100yards?

[rfd]

playing the long distance game with special percussion guns like gibbs and ferriss creedmoor rifles is a whole 'nuther very special affair when compared to an 18th or 19th century working man's militia flintlock long gun. one of these types will find a drop tube mandatory, and t'other it's totally useless dead weight.

[newrib]

I use a drop tube when loading my Gibbs and P-H Volunteer rifles. The drop tube insures that the powder gets in the patent breech and keeps the powder clean and dry, my bore wiping is done after every shot in these rifles. The drop tube is kept in the center of the bore by a few wraps of duct tape which were wrapped around the drop tube about 6 inches from the bottom of the tube. All of the charges and bullets are weighed. Everything is as consistent as possible.
I also shoot a lot of Enfield .58 cal muskets (all are British made Parker-Hale). Anyway one bright day at the rifle range I get the idea that if drop tubing and bore wiping works for the Gibbs and Volunteers it should also work on the muskets. So I drop tubed my weighed charges and bore wiped after firing for 5 shots, I checked my target 3 shots made a 9 inch group 2 were off the paper (SR-1 target) at 100 yards. That was with a rifle that shoots 3 inch 5 shot 100 yard rested groups.
After that experiment, I wont shoot the Gibbs or Volunteer without using the drop tube and I will not load a musket with one.
Last year I bought a "Euroarms of America" 3 band, henry rifled Volunteer rifle. That rifle does not have a patent breech. I will try loading without using a drop tube then with one to see if there is a change in accuracy. Have a Great Day !

[Boz330]

You are missing something. A day at the long range (300y, 600y and 1000y) match would clear up a lot for you. We are not talking about Davy Crockett muzzle loader shooting here.

Bob, you are a diplomat. My hat is off to you.

BTW- I am ashamed to say, I have not tested out the lined nipple you sent me yet. I do hope to get to the Oak Ridge Creedmoor challenge recreation match if not this year then next!

Mike, I'm still using the one Dick Hoff (RIP) gave me back in 13, but I don't shoot it a lot.
Are you going to shoot ML or BPCR at Oak Ridge? I'm going to shoot my BPCR this year which I've been shooting PP in for the last couple LR Matches. I was really happy with it at the Hepsworth match back in Oct.

Joe, I hunt with a RB ML and plink with one as well and I don't go through near the pains as the Gibbs. Minute of deer or gong is all I look for with those rifles. My 40 will shoot all day long without needing cleaning and just keeps plopping them in there. We all know that some guns are just picky and others not so much.
The original poster mentioned guns that are typically LR rifles not RB 25 or 50yd guns, which is why I directed my remarks to the LR stuff.

Bob

[Chill Wills]

Bob, I would really like to shoot with the ML but I would see as I got closer to going and ask Rick what was needed to even out the two sides. Really either BPCR or LRML would be fun.
This year has too many family plans about that time so it is doubtful I will make it.

[Boz330]

Bob, I would really like to shoot with the ML but I would see as I got closer to going and ask Rick what was needed to even out the two sides. Really either BPCR or LRML would be fun.
This year has too many family plans about that time so it is doubtful I will make it.

I understand. Being a Friday and Saturday it poses a problem with guys that still need to make a living. Since I work for myself and have plenty of notice I can work around it. It would be nice to have it just a little later in the spring, the weather can sure be a **** shoot. It is a really fun shoot though.
I was on the first relay at 200yd last year and we had a short rain right at the start. My stuff got wet and that caused a number of dumped loads because my bullets got pushed through the PPs. So I didn't get all of my scoring shots off or they were bad hits and it put me far enough back that I couldn't catch up. The frustration factor didn't help either. That was the first year I haven't finished in the top 10. I did learn from it though.

Bob

[heelerau]

I use a drop tube when loading my first generation Parker Hale Volunteer .451, I got it by accident from Peter Dyson and Son , England. It works ver well in this rifle and stops any powder from adhering to the wall of the barrel. It reaches down to the top of the patent breech chamber.

[Huvius]

As a companion to my home made drop tube, I am making ramrods for my Pedersoli Gibbs rifles.
The wood one is for my 12bore African Hunter.
Made that from a half inch oak dowel and a drawer pull for the knob. The tip is made from a junk 50-110 case but I will cut a better one in brass rod so I can have a longer, sturdier threaded section at the tip.
The orange fiberglass one is for the match rifle.
I made it from a fiberglass driveway marker ($2.30 at Lowe's) and a 25 cent handle from the surplus store. I like the orange color on the rod and drop tube - thinking it makes them less likely to get left at the range...
The fiberglass rod doesn't have to be super rigid as it is really just for sliding the boolit down the bore and cleaning chores but I figure the wood one should be pretty robust for the 12bore.

https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/EFA0C0F8-00EA-4D3B-813F-B19F8CF8BC4D.jpg (https://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/EFA0C0F8-00EA-4D3B-813F-B19F8CF8BC4D.jpg.html)


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The knob is nice and smooth - good for pushing a patched ball down the bore. Looks Old-Timey too!
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/322CAAF4-7DEC-4961-93E7-236AF1931FD6.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/322CAAF4-7DEC-4961-93E7-236AF1931FD6.jpg.html)