Making your own Single Shot Long Range Action, What are the legal requirements?

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Howdy All,

I have a big mill, and want to learn to use it. So thought about trying to make a single shot rifle action. Should cover a lot of the necessary skills. Got a good machinist to help me with it. But what are the legal requirement's or where are they listed.

Thanks,

Sam:-D

[NSP64]

I believe it's still ok to make them as long as they are for you:drinks:

[Buckshot]

Muddy Creek Sam, don't think I've ever said "Welcome to the board!" So there!

There is a recent thread about that on Shooters.com forum. Frank De Haas has a couple books out on SS actions, and I think his son, Mark still offers some plans. Also Buffalo Arms offers some plans. I haven't checked but I think I heard that. I too plan on doing so. I have a nice 11" Logan lathe and just got a new 9x42 mill.

I had though I might attempt a Snider action, which in use is exceedingly simple. However upon closer study the actual making isn't as simple as it's operation. I think I may start out making a bolt action for the .577" Snider cartridge and as my skills increase, I'll try something more complicated machining wise. I did manage to glom onto some good stock to begin with. Off E-Bay I got 2 sticks of 4140 pre-hard 2.5" x 24" long, and some 8620 alloy.

Considering the Mauser action was basicly selectively casehardened mild steel (1018, 1020 type) so long as it was good clean stuff of good pedigree and handled correctly for it's use it should be fine.

.................Buckshot

[Linstrum]

NSP64 and Buckshot have good advice, one thing they left out is the obvious of don't make anything that fits the "destructive device" category of going over 0.50 caliber (0.510 rifling groove diameter) in a cartridge gun. That is CARTRIDGE gun, the regs on non-cartridge breech loaders allow some Civil War and Spanish American cannons and I've seen some replica home-made ones with 3" rifled bores. You can go to destructive device category like 20mm Vulcan caliber since brass and powder are readily available, but you have to buy a tax stamp and register it. California, and I guess a few other states, don't allow Civil War replica breech loader cannons, .50 BMG and .50 Euro, and 20mm, no matter what. I could editorialize a bit and call them the last stop in the alimentary canal, but we already know that.

The falling block is the easiest to make, I made a universal falling block action that has the potential to take all barrels up to .50 caliber. I buy loose barrels on eBay and other places and make adapters for my action to pressure test my hand loads. I have test barrels for .50 BMG, .30-06, 7.62x54R Rusian, 9mm pistol, 6.5 Swedish Mauser, 8mm Mauser, and a few more I can't think of at the moment. Lot of fun to go to the range and shoot .50 BMG at 200+ yards, it gets me elbow room at the firing line!


rl399

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Howdy NSP64. Buckshot and Linstrum.

I am considering trying to make a 85 HiWall in 38-55, I was told that the drawings are available, although I havent fount them yet. That would complete my SASS gun wish list. At least for the moment.

I inherited a hugh Southbend Vertical and a 6' Metal Lathe made in the 30's from my Dad and am trying to learn to use them.

Any advice in advance of starting this project would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sam :D

[badgeredd]

IMO the guys have given you excellent advice. IMHO I think that since you are learning the ropes of the macining thing, you would be best served by starting out with a "simple" action. Buckshot mentioned the Frank deHass actions. Frank designed them for the novice gunmaker to build, particularly the Chicopee action. There's a forum member that has built the DeHass #2 Falling block action and it sure is a sweet looking gun. Personally I think you would be best off starting with a Chicopee for a pistol or 22 RF cartridge. Less work and easier to get it right the first time out with a lot less frustration. Also it'd make a handy fun plinker and/or tree rat gun. No matter how you go, good luck and welcome aboard the forum.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

How do the ATF rules accommodate the over 50cal "Heavy Rifles", such as the .600 and .700 Nitro Express'? The .600 might fall under C&C, but the .700 is a new number. Just curious.
Morgan

[floodgate]

Or, for that matter, the rifled barrels for shotguns?

Fg

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Anyone made one using this book? BUILDING A SINGLE SHOT RIFLE ACTION (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=13833&st=&s=) it is a falling block.

Sam :-D

[Linstrum]

Instead of speculating anymore, one of us ought to volunteer to write the NRA "Dope Bag" and find out what we need to know, this question keeps popping up often enough to justify the effort. For reasons of not wanting to provide evidence against themselves in future litigation, the NRA does not engage in discussion online, so it will have to be a postage stamp and snail mail proposition.


As far as the old English Nitro Express and the new .700 version, I don't know how they get around the "destructive device" rules. Shotguns with rifled bores use paper cartridges, which has something to do with the regs (yes, I know that brass cartridges for shotguns also exist and were the first type for those smooth bores). I read the BATF regs when I built my falling block since I was very interested in 20mm Vulcan, but I have slept a few times since then and don't recall much.

I know that some folks get around the BATF rules on the 20mm Vulcan by firing them with a flintlock mechanism through the primer pocket and flash hole in the standard 20x101mm Vulcan brass cartridge. There are ways, another is not using a cartridge at all, just bags of powder like on the 16" guns of the Mighty Mo.


rl402

[badgeredd]

I started looking on the BATFE site for some definition of a "Destructive Device" with no luck. I then happened on this definition...Maybe it'll help a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device

I also found a couple PDF files on the ATF site that give a little info on one building their own firearm, but I have figured out how to post the one I saved to my computer. If someone knows, I'd be glad to post it.

[shooter575]

The book,BUILDING A SINGLE SHOT RIFLE ACTION is a reprint of a couple year long article from the Home shop machinist mag. of 15-20 years ago.There were quite a few made.Has nice pic and drawings.For the price I think it is cheep info.The pics and jig set ups can be used in any rifle buildup.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

JIm,

Does it so set trigger's or single only?

Thanks,

Sam :-D

[madcaster]

I think Buffalo Arms offers blueprints or something to that effect...

[KCSO]

If you want to start off easy Doc Carlson (Upper Missouri Trading Co) hhas a couple of single shot actions kits that will just need final machining and finishing. Or you can do liike I did and buy a cheap IAB Sharps and then re build everything!

My current project is takinng a batch of leftovers and making a Warnant Action 22.

[heathydee]

I have built both Chicopees the rimfire first and then the CF in 30-30 working from Frank De Haas' book . Worthwhile projects and good fun.

[Linstrum]

The one home-made rifle that amazed me was a Garand in .50 BMG. If you look at the insides of a Garand receiver they are not simple machining at all! That's what you call a labor of love. Not for the beginner.


rl403

[shooter575]

JIm,

Does it so set trigger's or single only?

Thanks,

Sam :-D

I just dont remember.I was getting the mag back then.Still should have them somewhere.I just remember that there was a lot of good info there.

[Frank46]

Sam, go over to the american single shot association web site assra.com. You should be able to find a source for the winchester model 1885 single shot plans. From memory I think buffalo arms may be selling a set of plans. If you are going to have the action case hardened I think you'll need to make it out of 8620 (not sure of correct sae number). List your inquiry under the gunsmithing section. Hope this helps. Frank

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Ordered the book from Brownells today. Now to decide on the steel. Anyone point me to a good discussion of the pros and cons of 4140 and 8620 for the Action? I want to build this for BP 38-55 so I can use the same rounds as my Winchester 94 Legendary Frontiersman.

Thanks,

Sam :-D

[badgeredd]

Ordered the book from Brownells today. Now to decide on the steel. Anyone point me to a good discussion of the pros and cons of 4140 and 8620 for the Action? I want to buid this for BP 38-55 so I can use the same rounds as my Winchester 94 Legendary Frontiersman.

Thanks,

Sam :-D

Sam,
I'd have to look uo the chemical properties and heat treatment info on the 8620 but the 4140 would be a good steel for your action. One can get it prehardened to the low to mid 30s Rc which isn't really hard but very tough. It will definitely stand up to any 38-55 loads found in the reloading manuals, BP or smokeless. Buckshot as well as a couple other on the forum will be able to help you out too with steel selection. Actually good old cold roled will work if you have it carburized and case hardened. Stand-by for other to chime in, like I said, there are several on the forum that have a good backround in steel qualities.
Edd

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Howdy Again,

Anyone familiar with Rodney Storie Castings and Frontier Armory (http://kwk.us/FA/)? Just found out about it.

Thanks,

Steve :-D

[Frank46]

Sam, 8620 would be suitable for your action if you are interested in getting it case hardened. I believe its the same stuff that they made garand receivers out of. But then having said that I could be wrong. Try and get a copy of machinery's handbook. They should list the properties of the various steels suitable for building actions. Frank

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Thanks Frank,

Hoping the Book will be here tomorrow. I am really stoked about the falling block.

Sam :-D

[Avery Arms]

The treasury department evaluates cartridges to determine their suitability for use in sporting weapons.

Thus 600/700 nitro firearms can be imported or manufactured as title 1 rifles as these calibers hold sporting exemptions from ATF.

Now if you want to design a wildcat over .50 you need to write ATF and ask for a written exemption for your new cartridge. Or file a form 1 and pay the taxes...


The term “destructive device” shall not include any device...which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

TITLE 26 > Subtitle E > CHAPTER 53 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 5845

As for making firearms it is normally not a problem provided you comply with applicable laws. In some states there are bans on nickel framed guns and very simple designs referred to as “zip guns”.

If you want to get rid of your homemade firearm you should destroy it or give it away without compensation-do not sell it. Don't forget that smooth bored firearms must have 18" barrels and 26" OAL and rifles must have 16" barrels and 26" OAL.

Most people that break the law are innocently trying to make a simple pistol and use a smooth bore resulting in an “any other weapon” or 10 years and a $250,000 fine.:roll:

If you decide to move into semi-automatic guns remember it cannot fire from an open bolt and must meet 922(R) parts count laws if it's a non-sporting (assault) rifle.


PP

[Boz330]

Sam, I ordered that book sometime back and it looks like it could be a little complicated. I did some machine tool work back when I first got out of HS and decided that was a little more than I wanted to tackle. Frontier Armory has some cast actions that might be a little quicker way to get where you are going. And they have some pretty simple but accurate 19th century actions. The 85 not being one of them.
A buddy of mine got an 85 action. They are not quick about getting back to you so you have to be persistent. I kind of like that Cole or Farrow action for simplicity. My problem is I already have plenty of projects.

Bob

[lar45]

I'm a little late on the discussion here, but.....
Anyone can build a firearm as long as the finished item is legal where they live and they could legally own a firearm of that type.
Also you can not sell the finished gun. You do not have to register it or get a serial number or have the local law enforcement inspect it...

The over 50 cal thing: If you want to make a new cartridge that is over 50 cal, you can write a letter to the BATF detailing your idea and usage and ask for a sporting arms exemption.
Normally the BATF will not respond to any technical questions via e-mail. You will want to save a copy of the responce letter anyway.

Someplace I have downloaded and printed the CFR code covering the GCA and NFA. I don't remember reading anywhere in it about a difference being made for paper or brass cases. The terminology was "self contained central fire ammunition readily availible through normal channels of trade." Or something similar to that.
The rifled shotgun barrels have a sporting arms exemption.

I think the Win 94 was made from 1141, which is a sulphurized 1040. So just normal high carbon steel and not a high strength alloy like 4140.

There are several places online to buy small quantites of metals.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/ -has always worked well for me. They also have properties of various metals listed.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloysteelguide.cfm

http://www.steelforge.com/ferrous/carbonsteel.htm -Here is another interesting site-

There was a mention of building a semi-auto rifle and watching the number of imported components used. If you build a semi-auto pistol, then this law does not apply and you can use 100% imported pieces if you want.

The CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) used to be fairly easy to find and browse, but the BATF changed the format of their site a few years ago and there is almost no reference to the actual code left, at least that I could find.

All of this info is worth exactly what you paid for it. In other words, if there is a legal question be sure to research it your self, then print or save a copy incase you need it later.

I found the reference for the laws:
The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm
The GCA covers normal firearms.

The National Firearms Act
Title 26, United States Code
INTERNAL REVENUE CODE
CHAPTER 53 -- MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

The NFA covers machineguns, Destructive devices, shortbarreld rifles and shotguns, any other weapon and other stuff that could land you in jail without the proper paperwork.

I guess I got a little long winded, but I hope this helps and may answer some questions we didn't know we needed to ask.

Have fun and post pics if you build something. I'll bet mine is uglier than yours. lol

[wills]

You can find the CFR online if you wish to persue it. The Cornell site might be easier to use

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/

Here is the government site

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/CFR/

[lar45]

Linstrum, I would love to see some pics of your universal action and adapters.
One of the thoughts bumping around in the dark, that may never see the light of day, was to make thread adapters to put Win 94 barrels into a Mauser action. Neumrich used to have a wide variety of barrels in 25-35 and others. It seems the list is abit short now, but they do have 375 and 356 win barrels.