28,000 lbs....yes 28,000

[43PU]

I just secured 28,000lbs or lead from a indoor range all in 5 gallon buckets, how would you even start smelting? I mean where to even start I need to remove some
Rubber from it but would you all use a wood fire instead of propane?


Let the ideas start!!

[OS OK]

Just stockpile it in an area behind the barn or the like and smelt as you have time. Your gonna need a rest and prolly a chiropractor when you just haul it home...

You isa 'Lucky Duck'!

[sukivel]

That’s over a million 180 grainers for your Garand!!!!


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[6bg6ga]

good go

[acoop101]

Water should work well to clear non lead out of the mix just make sure you start slowly with a cold pot for each batch.
A Dutch oven and a turkey fryer work well and you can get quite a lot done with a 5# tank. The big issue I have when doing large remelts is having enough ingot molds once I get going to not have to stop.
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[Uncle Jimbo]

Good find. Approach it like you would eating a whale. One bite at a time.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Hire some local starving college students to move the lead FOR you - Prevents back injury :P

[jsizemore]

You can make some money from the jackets if you can control your melt temp. you may be able to do it with wood but much easier with propane. Scrapyard gives better money if the jackets are clean of lead. With 14 tons of lead to practice you should get it figured out. I made enough off 1.5 tons to pay for my smelting propane for the rest of my life.

[Geezer in NH]

Rubber melts and burns away

[MyFlatline]

All good ideas,,especially about the ingot molds. I run into that with my small batches. I would shy from the water, maybe spread out on the concrete and use a leaf blower to blow the trash out , then scoop up with a shovel. Burning rubber might not go to well if you have neighbors.

Congrats on a nice haul

[kens]

I smelted range lead, and, got a good turn of money from the copper jackets.

[F_L]

I think propane is your best bet. It will take a LOT of wood. Temps will be harder to control and keeping the fire stoked is work itself. Around here Tractor Supply has the best price on propane. $12 for a 20lb vs $17 at the propane place vs $18-20 for the bottle exchange. I have melted a few keels and can get 6-700 lbs out of a 20lb cylinder. I am melting 300lb blocks so there is little surface area to start. It takes me about an hour to get the pot to temp. I think range lead would melt quicker.
Great find and good luck with it.
F_L

[PaulG67]

If you can submerge the lead in water, the rubber will float, maybe mix it up with a spade. And what was said in post 7 seems like a really go idea. Nice score.

[dragon813gt]

Be very careful w/ the lead if you decide to use water to separate it from the rubber. Water will find its way into the jackets. Even if you start w/ a cold pot the tinsel fairy is likely to show up. I've melted down a good bit of lead that was picked up from an outdoor range. A lid over the pot is a necessity. If it's a TMJ that's still intact the lead will not melt out of the jacket.

You're going to have your work cut out for you. Separating the lead from the jackets takes a good bit of time. And hopefully a scrap yard in your area will accept the jackets. It seems most won't. If you're lucky they will pay #2 copper prices. Gilding metal is not #2 copper.

[MaryB]

Sounds like a good time to build a separator that vibrates the light bits to the top so they spill out onto a conveyor and the heavy bits spill the other way onto another conveyor I can picture it in my head but to draw it would be a pain... then use a bobcat to dump buckets in the top!

[country gent]

I made a smelter from a 25lb propane cylinder and 3-4 16 5 truck rims the older split rims. I used a torch to cut the centers out of all but 1. I then welded them together with the complete one on the bottom. cut a small slot in the bottom one 2 1/2" -3 1/2" wide up to the center. This is the stand. Cut the propane tank just below the top radious 2-3". You've over looked the other fuel. Plain simple stoker coal the fine chipped version. This burns very hot and long. Use a piece of exhaust pipe and a shop vac on blow for a blower. Set the exhaust pipe in the slot a few inches and the blower pushing thru it. Put a layer of stoker coal in the bottom fire it up and set the pot in add stoker coal around the sides and fill pot with lead. The pot cut in the above manner should hold 300-400lbs of clean alloy. With the coal and blower you can have it molten in less than an hour. It takes longer to ladle into ingots than melt it. Have several ingot moulds ( 6-10) to help keep them from overheating. I made 6 5 cavity ingot moulds from 2X2 Angle iron 8" long, these poured a bar of about 3 lbs and would fit in a lee pot. Also would recommend making or buying a bigger ladle in the 8lb-12lb range so one can fill several bars at a time. DOne right you can do 3-5 pots a day if you work hard. A helper is handy also. For moving ingots and loading the pot up.
Once fired just add stoker coal to the top around the pot and the coals ashes filter down thru. you end up with a hot fire of red coals around the pot. Start slowing down on the fire with the start of the last pot. also don't add water to coal to put it out extinguish it as it will explode the same as lead. Hard woods work but you go thru a lot more and less heat.
Ive done a 5000 lb batch as described above and it works well

[RP]

Best thing is to do small batches until you got it done. I got a lot of range lead about 6 tons and built me a wood smelter with a blower but I have a crane to lift the lead in and out of the fire. I do not think not having a way to lift it out of the fire wood would be a good thing since you can not kill the heat to flux and dip it out. A engine hoist may work but very tricky moving it away with out a mishap unless it rolls really well.

[D Crockett]

43pu you have a pm D Crockett

[D Crockett]

I am probably going to get tore into about what I am about to say but in safety sakes I got to say it. one day someone is going to tell someone to cut open a propane tank an get them hurt or even killed someone here suggested to cut open a propane tank. with out telling him the safe way to do it . what if he does not know about purging a tank and starts to open a tank with some gas in it with a side grinder what happens next if you do not know I will tell you there is a explosion the man doing the cutting is one of the following hurt or dead . I have been cutting tanks open for over 14 years now and I have said this before on this site and I guess I will have to say it again " if you do not know how to do it safely DO NOT DO IT " and don't tell people to do something that is not safe if you do not know what you are talking about. I have cut open tanks from 20lbs to 1000 lb propane tanks open. and I have a set of rules I go by to open one safely. guess what I an trying to get across is there are things you might get away with and tell someone else that will get them hurt or even killed because they did not follow all the steps in opening a tank the right way. end of safety sermon D Crockett

[lightman]

Thats a good score! But big scores mean big work! Lots of good ideas but this is what I would do. I would invest in a large smelting pot and a gas fired burner. Bigger than a Dutch oven or cut off propane tank. I would go natural gas if its available in your area. I would have several ingot molds built from either channel or angle. Maybe up to 10 or so. My new pot would either be bottom pour or I would buy a nice ladle and a nice skimmer. My thoughts are that you made a big score, so now you need to smelt in a big way. I would not want to do this 100# at a time! You can recover your equipment cost by selling the copper jackets and/or some of the lead. I would hire some help. High School or College students maybe. Good Luck, You have a lot of work ahead of you.

[lwknight]

There are several ways to purge a tank but here is the only one that regular guys cannot mess up.
1. Take the tank to the local propane dealer and ask them to remove the valve.
2. Fill the tank totally full with very hot water.
This is because there are heavy distillates that hold propane like CO2 in a soda pop. You need to dislodge all the gas from the oils that could be left in the tank.
3. Pour all the water out.
4. Fill the tank again with any water (hot/cold no matter).
This will be the final purge just to be extra safe.
5. Pour off just enough water to expose about 2" air space and cut out a big hole or remove the very top completely.
This will ensure that if any gas or flammable dregs possibly remaining will be ventilated to oblivion making it non flammable.
6. Pour out water and cut away to your hearts content.
After all that, there is no way any gas could still be in the tank unless you put it there by letting your torch pop out of something like that.

[hunter74]

When I melt range lead I use propane and just skim the rubber off top together with all other debis. The trick is to skim the rubber off before the melt gets real hot. If it gets too hot it smokes really bad and maybe also flames up. The fire can get really bad so a lid to cover the pot to suffocate the flame could come in handy.

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[Lloyd Smale]

I had a bunch of dirty lead once to smelt and I took a steel water heater tank and cut a whole in the bottom and welded a pipe nipple on to it. they I screwed together pipe that would go for it to another pot. Lit a fire under it and filled it about half full of dirty lead and as it melted the dirt rises and the clean lead comes out of the pipe into the other container. Now you will probably need to resmelt it one more time to get all the contaminants out. Just don't overload the dirty pot. You don't want any more lead then the clean pot can handle. I used a pipe cap on the end that I would screw on (with gloves) when I wanted to swap clean lead pots. I could do about 500lbs like that before I had to stop and let it cool and dump the junk out of the dirty lead pot. I guess a guy could ladle it out as you go but after 500 lbs I was ready for a break anyway.

[William Yanda]

For this quantity dutch ovens and propane tank smelting pots are thinking inside the box. I like the water heater feeding melted lead to another pot. What about cutting the water heater in half lengthwise, mounting it at a slight angle so the melted lead would flow to the bottom. This would leave the top accessible to manage the trash. A cover would still be advisable, though a little more difficult than for a tank cut perpendicular to the long axis.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats some good thinking right there. you would just need a bit bigger fire or maybe two propane turkey fryers under it.
For this quantity dutch ovens and propane tank smelting pots are thinking inside the box. I like the water heater feeding melted lead to another pot. What about cutting the water heater in half lengthwise, mounting it at a slight angle so the melted lead would flow to the bottom. This would leave the top accessible to manage the trash. A cover would still be advisable, though a little more difficult than for a tank cut perpendicular to the long axis.

[deepwater]

There was an ad, and video, on this site for a production smelter for the hobbyist level. Had a spigot for filling molds. Price was very reasonable. The reactions from the readers was positive. Whatever happened to them?

[hunter74]

There was an ad, and video, on this site for a production smelter for the hobbyist level. Had a spigot for filling molds. Price was very reasonable. The reactions from the readers was positive. Whatever happened to them?Are you referring to Satan's Little Smelter? I've read somewhere on the forum, that they were built as a side gig in a machine shop with a lot of other things to do, so I don't think they are made anymore.

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[swheeler]

I think you have scored the "life time supply!" You need the MOTHER OF ALL SMELTERS aka MOS as posted here a decade ago. Do a search, I believe Corky or Felix had pictures on here, looked like a monster.

Sundog still posts here

[country gent]

Last couple tanks I cut apart were flushed several times with hot water and dish soap. then left sit for several days both right side up and up side down then flushed again. I also don't cut with cutoff wheel or electric tool. I put a wrap of tape around the tank for a line to follow and cut it with a hack saw and fine blade. This reduces the risk of sparks to ignite anything. With the hacksaw you break thru and workaround the outside following the tape line. Electric tools have a spark in them hen running and grinding wheels produce sparks. I normally post this when I say about the propane tank, I simply slipped on it the other day. Ive also never recommended electric tools or grinders for this. The plain and simple hacksaw does a great job and only takes about 45 mins to an hour. I find it leaves a better edge also not as burred as the grinder or power saw.

[MyFlatline]

For cutting a propane tank, hook a hose to the truck exhaust and purge the tank while cutting. No O/2 , no fire or boom.

[pmer]

Man, that's a lot of lead. Could one just scrap it "as is" and take that cash and buy a couple thousand pounds of clean alloy?

[jsizemore]

Man, that's a lot of lead. Could one just scrap it "as is" and take that cash and buy a couple thousand pounds of clean alloy?

You must be joking.....

[dragon813gt]

Man, that's a lot of lead. Could one just scrap it "as is" and take that cash and buy a couple thousand pounds of clean alloy?

You'd have to separate it from the rubber to get any type of decent price. If you processed it yourself you'd have all the lead plus money from selling the jackets if you can find a yard that takes them. You'd be able to buy a lot more clean alloy w/ that money plus you have the lead from the range scrap.

[Plate plinker]

You must be joking.....

What he said!

Also I might build a smelter for the copper and ingotize that too, just for fun.

[JBinMN]

LOL Rubber usually floats & lead & copper do not. Get yourself a few five gallon buckets & just pour the contents from a lead/rubber filled one into a couple of buckets with some water in them skim the stuff off the top & then dump & dry to get at the stuff ya want. After drying smelt away. Then repeat as needed...

You will likely end up a very busy feller with 2000- 2800 buckets to go thru, but hey... It was free, right?
;)

You do realize that if it was just lead & it was only 25,000 pounds after you took all the not useable stuff out that you were just given about $25,000+ for nothing... Add in the copper sales & it is likely over $30,000...

for Free...

You could spend a year cleaning it up & it would be like a $25-30,000 job if ya sold it all.

Like someone said earlier, you could hire a couple of kids to do the cleaning/sorting for like $10.00 hr/cash a few hours a week... Smelt shoot or sell what they clean up & you would still likely have a lot of shootable material in the end + some $$ in your pocket for other things if ya wanted to do it...

Anyway, I sure would like to see some pics, BTW. I just can't seem to get a mental picture of 14 tons of lead in 5 gallon buckets. It just boggles my mind I guess...

G'Luck! with your windfall! I wish I had that sort of trouble... LOL
;)

[blikseme300]

Great score! Did quick math and that should yield about 850K 230gn CB's equivalent.

[runfiverun]

rubber floats on top of salt water you need a 12-15% solution for that to happen.

I would just go gold mining myself and build a riffle and a recirculating water system
then feed the lead through that it will wash off everything but the heavy stuff.

then I would build a fire tray to melt it all [and skim out the jackets] and just keep feeding the system.
fire tray lets the melted lead through [but blocks everything not liquid] it just runs down hill.
once that was done then I would smelt and clean the collected lead for casting purposes.

if the scrap yard took dirty jackets then fine, if not then I'd re-clean those if there was enough of them to make it worth my time.

[merlin101]

I also use a cut down propane tank, but that's just not enough for this job! I'd be looking for an air compressor tank, preferably a 100 gallon horizontal one and cut it in half add some bracing to the feet make a pour valve to fit in one of the holes in the bottom. I'd also make a shelf from expanded metal use that to help screen out debris. A set of roller conveyer under the spout to just slide your filled ingots out of the way to a cooling area would be very helpful. I could see a heat/lead splatter shield from plywood and Plexiglas coming in handy too. I'd heat it with an old oil burner from a furnace add in some fire brick and it would heat up quick and hold heat.

[triggerhappy243]

is there anyone here that has successfully smelted and came away with clean enough copper to get top dollar? I would like to see the method. Im sitting on 4000 pounds that i need to work.............. no rubber in it.

[lightman]

The air compressor tank is a good idea. Also, around here bulk propane tanks are not hard to find. Think 500 or 1000 gallon.

[lightman]

Oh yeah, would love to see pictures of this when it happens!

[maxreloader]

The buckets alone are worth a few bucks...

I was offered 10+ 55 gal drums of mostly lead with some rubber and sand mixed in from the indoor backdrop and refused because of the amount of time/work it would have been. If I ever need any more lead I will go on a keel hunt, much simpler.

[hpdrifter]

Hire some local starving college students to move the lead FOR you - Prevents back injury :P

Be careful, they might sue you later for lead poisoning or try to sick the EPA on you.

[MaryB]

Might be worthwhile to cast long skinny ingots that can be later cut with a saw... make a dozen molds all connected to a common feed trough and you might be able to cast 400+ pounds at a time... add a valve on the smelter to drain it into the feeder trough that sits next to the fire to stay hot...

[lwknight]

For cutting a propane tank, hook a hose to the truck exhaust and purge the tank while cutting. No O/2 , no fire or boom.

Famous last words. I had met a guy who was going to weld on a tank that he has supposedly purged. He died 3 days later from injuries. I found the tank head 200' away wrapped around a tree.

[NavyVet1959]

Famous last words. I had met a guy who was going to weld on a tank that he has supposedly purged. He died 3 days later from injuries. I found the tank head 200' away wrapped around a tree.

Then obviously, he did not purge it completely or correctly. :)

Before I would start cutting on a tank with a torch, at the very least, I would start by drilling two small holes on opposite sides of the top after the tank was supposedly emptied. With the first hole, you're going to notice very quickly whether there is any residual pressure left in the tank. If there is, then back off and let it bleed off. Drill the other hole. Drill both holes out wide enough that you can put an air hose nozzle into them. Start up your air compressor and let it pump air into one hole and out the other hole. It will dilute any vapors enough that they will not be flammable. Let that run for a few minutes and then remove it and put a lighter to one of the holes. You should not even get a puff of flame. At this point, you can take a torch if you are so inclined, but I prefer a smoother cut, so I use an abrasive cutoff blade on a circular saw usually.

If I had to smelt that much lead, I would probably use a natural gas burner, not propane, because natural gas is a lot cheaper than propane. One thing that you need to factor into the cost of smelting it though is the amount of beer that you are going to be drinking during the process. I figure probably 6-12 beers per 100 lbs, depending upon whether it is the winter or summer. :)

[MyFlatline]

Famous last words. I had met a guy who was going to weld on a tank that he has supposedly purged. He died 3 days later from injuries. I found the tank head 200' away wrapped around a tree.

You are right, it was supposedly purged, not good. It MUST be purged. It is no different than filling it with inert gas, which is what the welding shops do.

You continue to cut them your way and I will still cut them mine, that is the best of both worlds we can choose.

[6mm win lee]

I just secured 28,000lbs or lead from a indoor range all in 5 gallon buckets, how would you even start smelting? I mean where to even start I need to remove some
Rubber from it but would you all use a wood fire instead of propane?


Let the ideas start!!

Have you thought about "volunteers" visiting your locale and melting down your bounty for ten to twenty percent, depending on distance traveled, of what they melt? You might have to set up a spreadsheet to keep track of the schedule. Gee I would spend a couple of my vacation days from Kenya to sit and melt your lead for a small trade of my labor. Of course I would not leave the fire until I dropped out from lack of sleep. Food? Bah.

:bigsmyl2:

[country gent]

A one hole tank is very hard to purge since it air locks. several methods can be used as mentioned above drilling a vent hole in the discarded area works keep it as close to the highest point as possible. This lets air and fumes be pushed out. A hose that fits thru the hole very loosely pushed to the bottom of the tank to fill it. This allows air and fumes to escape around the hose. The last is to pour the soap water thru a funnel and watch the air fumes displaced bubble up thru the funnel. this can take awhile to do. I fill the tank and let soak for awhile pour part out and slosh roll around to help clean the surfaces in side as much as possible. "Clean" 55 gallon drums have injured a lot of people. With out the soap a petroleum drum water alone may not remove the layer left and a problem is still there. We always used a chisel and hammer to remove the tops when needed. A drum may never be completely purged so I use hand tools to cut them when needed. In industry tanks are purged with argon/co2 when welded or worked on. this provides an inert atmosphere with no oxygen, and if welding is done cuts down on the flash thru on the inside that can be a problem. In th food industry all of the transfer pipes are purge welded so there is no flash or slag inside to contaminate the product. Cutting a tank can be done it also needs to be done as safely as possible. A hacksaw working around the outside has little chance of sparks to ignite anything. And a new sharp blade one thru the tank cuts quickly working around. We made several hacksaws in 16" -24" with a deeper throat at work for odd jobs. ( when you have a blade welder on the band saw making these odd blades is easy to do LOL).

[Oklahoma Rebel]

when I cut mine, I first removed the valve, of course after making sure it didn't have pressure, and filled it completely with water, that's the only way I KNOW that no gas is left in it, the problem with purging with compressed air, is that some gases are MORE explosive when they are diluted to a certain percent, a boom will tell you when you have reached the right percentage if you are cutting with a powertool that might spark.

[MyFlatline]

A one hole tank is very hard to purge since it air locks. several methods can be used as mentioned above drilling a vent hole in the discarded area works keep it as close to the highest point as possible. This lets air and fumes be pushed out. A hose that fits thru the hole very loosely pushed to the bottom of the tank to fill it. This allows air and fumes to escape around the hose. The last is to pour the soap water thru a funnel and watch the air fumes displaced bubble up thru the funnel. this can take awhile to do. I fill the tank and let soak for awhile pour part out and slosh roll around to help clean the surfaces in side as much as possible. "Clean" 55 gallon drums have injured a lot of people. With out the soap a petroleum drum water alone may not remove the layer left and a problem is still there. We always used a chisel and hammer to remove the tops when needed. A drum may never be completely purged so I use hand tools to cut them when needed. In industry tanks are purged with argon/co2 when welded or worked on. this provides an inert atmosphere with no oxygen, and if welding is done cuts down on the flash thru on the inside that can be a problem. In th food industry all of the transfer pipes are purge welded so there is no flash or slag inside to contaminate the product. Cutting a tank can be done it also needs to be done as safely as possible. A hacksaw working around the outside has little chance of sparks to ignite anything. And a new sharp blade one thru the tank cuts quickly working around. We made several hacksaws in 16" -24" with a deeper throat at work for odd jobs. ( when you have a blade welder on the band saw making these odd blades is easy to do LOL).

You are correct..

I cannot see me sawing a 500 gallon propane tank length wise with a hack saw to make a smoker tho. :)
Caution is prudent in any type endeavor, much like loading you own ammo.

Edit to add: I have been more concerned about welding inside a septic pump truck do to the methane gas than I ever have cutting a propane tank. You can't purge the truck while you are inside.

[JBinMN]

when I cut mine, I first removed the valve, of course after making sure it didn't have pressure, and filled it completely with water, that's the only way I KNOW that no gas is left in it, the problem with purging with compressed air, is that some gases are MORE explosive when they are diluted to a certain percent, a boom will tell you when you have reached the right percentage if you are cutting with a powertool that might spark.

I have to laugh a bit... my strange sense of humor I suppose, but I have been waiting for someone to mention filling tanks with water first before cutting them open. I may have missed it in earlier posts, but I am glad someone finally said it. That is how I have done it anyway, on smaller tanks, without any issue.
;)

To stay more on topic...

Has the OP decided on a course of action yet?
and...
I would still like to see some pics of those buckets of lead.
:)

[D Crockett]

Famous last words. I had met a guy who was going to weld on a tank that he has supposedly purged. He died 3 days later from injuries. I found the tank head 200' away wrapped around a tree. this is exactly the point I was trying to make in my post # 19. if you do not know what you are doing or saying DO NOT DO IT OR SAY IT. this thing of ours is very complicated and parts of it is dangerous. SAFTY is the most important thing in our sport. I have seen guns blown apart because of lack of knowing what is wright and what is wrong. this is the 3rd death I have herd of when someone did not know what they were doing has died. I would like to tell you of a death of a man that tought me how to shoot a compound bow. He had 2 passions in life 1 was shooting bow and arrow the 2nd love of his life was racing cars on the track after his death I was told by his brother that a man told him he could wield on a tire that had pressure in it well the man that told him that cost my friend his life because it blew up on him and killed him this is why I am so out spoken on the subject of SAFTY in our sport that is the 3rd person that died that should not of died that I know of and with that being said I am going to fix me a drink and drink to my friend Garry Shepard who died needlessly D Crockett

[Alcast]

And I thought I was smelting a huge amount of range lead when doing it over my wood fed fire 500# at a time.Whew!I guess I'll have to get membership to something like at least 50 shooting gun clubs to get as much lead as you did.Congrats!

[Rich/WIS]

Not sure if available in your area but you might look into renting a plumbers pot.

[43PU]

The lead is in 100 5 gallon buckets and then over 40 “bricks of rubber” that weigh 250-300 lbs each I need a way to break the rubber bricks up to get the lead

[kens]

I had a barrel of range scrap. I smelted it about 10lbs at a time with propane burner and a steel frying pan. The jackets float on top and can be skimmed off. they came out clean of lead easily, but they are not shiny as new copper. I ended up with about 8 gallons of copper jackets, my scrap yard paid me top dollar for the jackets.

Skimming off the jackets is about the same as skimming off the clips from WW's, if you could wash the range scrap first, you might get thru it with much less dross.

[MaryB]

To shred the rubber you could make a chipper of sorts with metal teeth on a shaft that rips it apart...Use a pusher to push the bricks in and no loose clothing!

I have cut a propane tank twice. Both times I took the valve off, added water and simple green degreaser, let soak for a week. Rinse, repeat for another week, then fill with CO2 from a welding tank. Used a cutting disc on an angle grinder...

[lightman]

Well, nothing says that this has to be dealt with all at once. But I'm the kind of guy that would have to jump on it so I'm thinking big. A bigger pot, a bigger burner, more ingot molds, and some help. Lead in buckets has a way of getting dirty. The buckets will let rain in, or sweat. And buckets of raw lead take up more space that neatly stacked ingots.

I would like to see pictures of this as it progresses. How it is being hauled. How it was loaded, unloaded and smelted. We like pictures! This is going to be a job, Good Luck to ya!

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=s: A fellow that I used to know in Fl did it the easy way after a good purge.Just chucked it up in his lathe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[deepwater]

Are you referring to Satan's Little Smelter? I've read somewhere on the forum, that they were built as a side gig in a machine shop with a lot of other things to do, so I don't think they are made anymore.

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That sounds right. They may be able to crank one out, or have one in someone's garage.

[parkerhale1200]

What i did was an old cast iron wood stove, witch i grinded open at the top to put a open grinded propane tank in.
Before you are going to grind that tank open, fill it with water first!!!!
Then i put the pot full and lit the fire, when everything has melted i scoop out the jackets and other stuff.
I dont know the english word for this one, but its a scoop they use for frying pans, to get the fried food out.
So not the one for a normal kitchen, but those big kitchens.
A friend of mine knows how to weld, he made me a big ladle witch was approx 25 inches long and could hold 5 pound with every dip.
For those kind of melts I like sand casting, i use lumberwood for this approx size: 6 inch long x 2 inch x 2,5 inch.
It will give you bars of ~10 pound.
For my other alloys i use different size and shape wood.
I am not a welder so this works for me perfect, as a Carpenter by trade.
You can make every ingot size you would like. And a lot of the same size.
The only expense you will have is two or three bags of playing sand.

Again this works perfect for me, I hope this will give you some food for your thoughts.
Just my 2 cents
I really must find out how to get pics on this forum!

Good luck on melting

[parkerhale1200]

@ trigger happy, its easy and very good to do, to melt copper.
But if there is some messing, lead, tin, zinc or other contamination, you probably cant sell it for pure copper, but for messing.
Your burner must be way hotter then for lead, and you have to buy a crucible.
Or buy/make a complete melting oven, those ones on gas,they work better, but thats IMO.

And its fun

[merlin101]

Easist way to purge a propane tank is also fun, SHOOT IT! Just set it out at whatever range you feel safe at and take aim and fire. With the newer style OPD tanks (they have three pointed handle valve) will NOT let gas out even when opened without a hose hooked up to it! So hook the tank to your grill or whatever and try to light it when it's empty then shoot it and let it sit for a while, the propane smell will linger for weeks, that is an oil that is added to the gas for safety.

[fatelk]

I recently cut a propane tank, the quick and easy way.

I made sure it was empty by draining out any residual pressure with a burner, then removed the valve. I left it outside and forgot about it for a couple weeks in bad weather. What with the rain and wind I figured it was plenty purged, but poured some more water in for good measure.

Then I just took it to work and used a portable bandsaw. I ran some tape around where I wanted to cut, for a straight line, then set it on the ground and rolled it slowly as the bandsaw rode around the outside cutting through it like butter. It couldn't have turned out nicer if I'd have used a laser. After the first one I could have cut a dozen.

Can you tell that this has been cut in half?
210873

[308Jeff]

Can't wait to see pics of that much lead! Would be cool for you to document the whole process (loading, transport, smelt, final product) in its own thread.

[lwknight]

If I had to smelt that much lead, I would probably use a natural gas burner, not propane, because natural gas is a lot cheaper than propane. One thing that you need to factor into the cost of smelting it though is the amount of beer that you are going to be drinking during the process. I figure probably 6-12 beers per 100 lbs, depending upon whether it is the winter or summer. :)

It takes about 1 #20 tank to do about 700-800 pounds so it is a relatively small cost. Especially when you own a propane company :bigsmyl2:]
I might also mention that you get about 20 pounds if you have the tank filled where most of the exchanges only puts 15 pounds in them.

[43PU]

Well I went and got 50 -5 gallon buckets and 50 “bricks” of rubber back stop today I have 57 more buckets and 17
More bricks to get, they told me they get about 6-7 buckets of range scrap a month and about every 6 months they replace 10-11 Bricks

[Blanket]

I think for that much weight and scrap I would make an inclined smelter to melt the alloy away and leave the trash behind

[parkerhale1200]

I was wondering, to improve a thing or two.
Some of us had the trouble(luxury) to do a mostermelt.
Regardless off how you melt it, getting the wrong stuff out is a real pain somewhere below.
Like runfiverun said, make a big water proof box and fill it with salt water ~15%.
In that box, before you put your thrash in, you have some sort of filter screen, to lift the good stuff out.
After you get rid of most of the wood and rubber. As last the sand.
Perfect hint from runfiverun!, I give it a go when we are going to do our range(again) in april this year.

Then you dunk al the wet stuff in your melting pot and crank it up, it will be dry before its going to melt.
For safety Always use a lit/cover up your pot, in case you overlooked a live piece of ammo(worst case).

After everything has melted you need to get the jackets and other stuff out, i Always take a ?fryer?ladle and scoop it out.
Why are we not figuring out a system to make it faster, like a big inox fine mash bucket into our big melting pots?
Just to get the most jackets out, just like those deep fryers.
Or, less practical, and maybe even dangerous, adapt your pot with handles so you can lift it with a friend.
Drill two big hols to fit an iron rod, 1,5 inch in dia, like the ones they use in the concrete construction.
Dunk the whole stuff into a fine mash metal sheet on top of a other melting pot?
Or tilt your pot to drain into your ingots.

If you have neighbores close by, only melt when its windy, also for your own safety, and......when you dunk that stuff in your yard or where ever, dont let the water with its contamination run into the ground, keep the stuff moist not wet, and store it dry.
The remainders of sand, I take back to the shooting alley, in Holland its a chemical stuff, you must dispose of it on a propper way.

Let us please know your solution, and of course i will post my experiment in may or so

[lwknight]

Pictures of the bricks please!

[parkerhale1200]

Please be safe!!!! lead poising is no fun, I was a stupid ****, now i know better.
Wear gloves, a mask(p3), good protective clothes, dont drink smoke or eat while melting!!
Try to, no succeed in avoiding inhaling fumes or dust, or onto your skin.
Lead will find its way into your body, easy, and it takes long to get out.
If you got headache, upset stomach, dizzy or flu like symptoms......GET OUT into fresh air.

Even I!!! I do mine casting with a 360m2 hour ventilator, with gloves.
Melting I do outside in the wind, with a duskmask and gloves.
If you expose your self to long to lead fumes or dust, it will result in cancer, and reproductive harm.
Cancer? Yes cancer, lead will settle in your bones and preventing the making of red blood cells, ect.
Before you get back into the house, change your clothes and take a shower.
I need of a break? or smoke? wash you're hands and get away from your melt.

Have fun and be safe

[pmer]

Between lead poisoning, cancer, bad back, tinsel fairy, mob of college students, getting blown up and overall general grumpiness. Sheesh, the poor guy will be lucky to get through this in one piece :razz:

[maxreloader]

Only time will tell pmer!



Between lead poisoning, cancer, bad back, tinsel fairy, mob of college students, getting blown up and overall general grumpiness. Sheesh, the poor guy will be lucky to get through this in one piece :razz:

[lightman]

43 PU is facing a lot of work, for sure. But, there is no reason that this can't be done safely. Theres no getting around the fact that there will be a lot of manual labor involved. A sore back is a real possibility. I'm hoping that he will post some pictures as he begins to work on this project.

[lakeparkv8]

All said and suggestions said, you will have a huge amount of your time(Maybe Friends too) invested in this project. Not to mention the amount of cash and equipment involved to prepare this to the point of casting bullets. It would be fun for a few days but 6 months in you will say what have I gotten myself(and old friends) in to.
My suggestion would be contact a commercial smelter maybe Rotometal. Try to work a deal out with them to trade scrap for clean number one lead that you want to cast with or sell. You will never have to deal with it. This is going to be a major undertaking and a big decision to make a commitment to get done.
I would rather be casting some bullets and spending my spare time shooting instead of tending this monster for literally years.

[CScott]

I have to agree with what lakeparkv8 says. I've been smelting clean indoor range scrap 5 gallons (110 lbs) at a time and it is about as much work as I care to do. When I get about a ton of ingots I'll stop and have a lifetime supply. Your project is many times larger. It takes effort to stay safe from any number of injuries, poisoning, polluting your home or groundwater and so on. Let the people who are knowledgeable and set up for this kind of work do it and get back to what is fun!
Just my opinion and all the best to you,
Scott

[Drew P]

I think propane is your best bet. It will take a LOT of wood. Temps will be harder to control and keeping the fire stoked is work itself. Around here Tractor Supply has the best price on propane. $12 for a 20lb vs $17 at the propane place vs $18-20 for the bottle exchange. I have melted a few keels and can get 6-700 lbs out of a 20lb cylinder. I am melting 300lb blocks so there is little surface area to start. It takes me about an hour to get the pot to temp. I think range lead would melt quicker.
Great find and good luck with it.
F_L
Please note these bottle exchanges have a RACKET going on, they only fill the bottles 3/4 full! That s how they make their exchange deal seem semi competitive. Isn’t that stupid? Less meat cooked but most people don’t notice.

[Rich22]

I had the same sort of thing last year only the deal fell through, was supposed to receive about 4000 lbs per month of indoor range scrap. I came to the conclusion after a fairly good amount of research that the Satan's little smelter was the best tool out there for large production that is not in the realm of thousands of dollars. I ran some basic math and figured with the 2nd largest model I could do around 400 pounds per hour depending on the setup of the ingot molds. The issue is getting one. I managed to get a call back about 4 months after I originally tried to speak with them about ordering one. They said lead time is about 4 weeks. That was I believe January of last year. With 28k pounds plus more coming I would go straight for the largest one they build. Assuming your paying for the scrap, I would think the cost associated with purchase of the melter would be a fairly small % and be well worth the time savings

[Teemu]

a mask(p3)


Isn't P3 filter is just for particles... I would use combined filter for particles and fumes. Something like this one....
http://i6.aijaa.com/m/00457/14510647.jpg (http://aijaa.com/PQ6q90)
http://i5.aijaa.com/m/00287/14510648.jpg (http://aijaa.com/UcTLZY)
This kind of filter You can do almost anything with chemicals and gases. More those A2B2E2K2..etc more acids,gases chemicals and poisons can be filtered. And P3 for particles of course.It is small amount of money for Your healt.

[triggerhappy243]

Please note these bottle exchanges have a RACKET going on, they only fill the bottles 3/4 full! That s how they make their exchange deal seem semi competitive. Isn’t that stupid? Less meat cooked but most people don’t notice.

DRew, that is true. but i only exchange when a bottle becomes unserviceable. I have a propane filling station i go to. i weigh all my bottles empty and again after i refill. did you know that with each filling, a little oil is added to your bottle................... for whatever reason? (adds weight to the bottle)

[MaryB]

I am lucky, local co-op refills tanks so I have 2 that look like new even if they are 15 years old. Need to get 2 more, in winter I need one in the garage heater, 2 for the beer brewing rig rig, and 1 for the other burner for smelting.

[40-82 hiker]

Not sure about a P3 filter, but a P100 filter (3M) is for lead vapor (among other stuff) BELOW the threshold for defined levels considered hazardous by OSHA. Meaning, it is effective for normal use. I use one (1/2 face mask) with P100 filters when smelting, and often when casting (just got in the habit of wearing a mask as a welder to protect damaged lungs from car wreck years ago).

[lwknight]

DRew, that is true. but i only exchange when a bottle becomes unserviceable. I have a propane filling station i go to. i weigh all my bottles empty and again after i refill. did you know that with each filling, a little oil is added to your bottle................... for whatever reason? (adds weight to the bottle)

It takes a very long time to accumulate enough oil to matter any noticeable amount. I have noticed that the old 100 pound bottles weigh about a pound more than the stated tare weight. Most old cylinders that I replace valves in are bone dry inside.
I have seen domestic tanks with a couple gallons of crude in the bottom but it is rare since most companies only sell HD5 propane for the last 20 years.
Back in the day some people were probably selling commercial grade as domestic. The only requirement for commercial is that it actually burns without regard for the amount of dregs in it.

[BigMagShooter]

use this smelter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBGCHlKsG2Q

[RogerDat]

Good find. Approach it like you would eating a whale. One bite at a time. What he said.

Seriously you are going to hate me but if you store the buckets outside they really need holes to drain water or funk city will result. I still bet you hate me less than I envy you :-)

DCrockett makes molds and they are for sale in vendor section they make a good stacking and pot size bar, they also fit in USPS boxes if you decide to sell some lead. Doing bulk batch I use a bunch of thrift store bread loaf pans. Pour about 12 pounds (4 x 3# ladle) into each one. However they can't be fit into a casting melter that way, but then I generally do that for lead that I will be mixing later with other lead into a batch of alloy. The final batch of casting alloy goes in bars ingots or muffin tin pucks.

If you click on this picture to make it full size you can see the slabs on the wheeled deck on the floor (PB) and on the right ends of the shelves 1 & 2 are lino and printers lead slabs. On the left end you see mostly stuff mixed and ready to cast with. Those triangle bars 2nd shelf up next to the upright are like what DCrockettes angle iron molds make. Nice thing about those slabs is they are easy to stamp with harbor freight stamp set, lot less work than doing small ingots. And they will stack high enough to crack your floor. At one time I had around 400# in four stacks. There is about 150 lbs. of plain lead on that harbor freight furniture dolly on the floor to give you some idea of space usage.

212227

[lwknight]

What he said.

If you click on this picture to make it full size you can see the slabs on the wheeled deck on the floor (PB) and on the right ends of the shelves 1 & 2 are lino and printers lead slabs.

I had 2 tons of 25 pound bricks of lead stacked in my garage and got scared that it might crack the slab so I moved them out.

[1988-4551]

That is quite the haul. I thought I was lucky when the sears tire shop let me help myself to whatever I could carry off.

[1953greg]

I made a smelter from a 25lb propane cylinder and 3-4 16 5 truck rims the older split rims. I used a torch to cut the centers out of all but 1. I then welded them together with the complete one on the bottom. cut a small slot in the bottom one 2 1/2" -3 1/2" wide up to the center. This is the stand. Cut the propane tank just below the top radious 2-3". You've over looked the other fuel. Plain simple stoker coal the fine chipped version. This burns very hot and long. Use a piece of exhaust pipe and a shop vac on blow for a blower. Set the exhaust pipe in the slot a few inches and the blower pushing thru it. Put a layer of stoker coal in the bottom fire it up and set the pot in add stoker coal around the sides and fill pot with lead. The pot cut in the above manner should hold 300-400lbs of clean alloy. With the coal and blower you can have it molten in less than an hour. It takes longer to ladle into ingots than melt it. Have several ingot moulds ( 6-10) to help keep them from overheating. I made 6 5 cavity ingot moulds from 2X2 Angle iron 8" long, these poured a bar of about 3 lbs and would fit in a lee pot. Also would recommend making or buying a bigger ladle in the 8lb-12lb range so one can fill several bars at a time. DOne right you can do 3-5 pots a day if you work hard. A helper is handy also. For moving ingots and loading the pot up.
Once fired just add stoker coal to the top around the pot and the coals ashes filter down thru. you end up with a hot fire of red coals around the pot. Start slowing down on the fire with the start of the last pot. also don't add water to coal to put it out extinguish it as it will explode the same as lead. Hard woods work but you go thru a lot more and less heat.
Ive done a 5000 lb batch as described above and it works well

countrygent.....could/would you post some pics?....this set up sounds bout like what i need. thx greg

[silly goose]

I would never use all that.

But maybe would sell it.

[Grmps]

You know the rules, that lead doesn't really exist unless you post picture (s) of it.:)

[silly goose]

Yes, pics.

[parkerhale1200]

@ Teemu,
My setup also contains a 360m3 an hour ventilation.
The air flow is directly sucked from the lead pot to outside.
And the clean fresh air is coming from behind me.
In my case!, i am not worried about the vapors, but i am worried about the dust.
And you hit the nail right on the head: It is indeed a very very small amount of money for your health!!!

[lightman]

You know the rules, that lead doesn't really exist unless you post picture (s) of it.:)

My thoughts exactly! :-o

Me and another member are working our way through 35 or so buckets of wheel weights. Thats about 15% of this haul. I can't imagine dealing with this on the hobbiest level.

[Hanzy4200]

Find the biggest dutch oven you can, scrounge up as many propane tanks as possible, and get ready to put on some muscle. Your land will probably be lead contaminated for the next 50 years from all the dust and spillage, but hey, it'll be worth it! And I thought my 400 lb stash was admirable...........thanks for peeing in my cereal.

[Grmps]

Check out How to cast bullets out of scrap lead with champion shooter Jerry Miculek He does larger batches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSgQ82Kqhzo

[MaryB]

If I was going to put the effort into this I would be turning it into a part time business selling lead ingots...

[lightman]

It amazes me that so many of the videos you see of people smelting lead show them working off of the floor. That much stooping and bending would wear me out. My set up has the melting pot at a comfortable height to ladle out of while standing and so are the ingot molds. I would add that your equipment needs to be sturdy if you're not working on the floor.

[mjkonopka]

Pics or it didn't happen ��

[lightman]

I was really hoping that 43PU would come back with pictures and details about how he handled and smelted this. I calculated that I could probably have that 28000# smelted into ingots in about 20 days with my set-up and a buddy helping. This is based on smelting 5K+ wheel weights recently. And maybe buying stock in Aleve!

[redhawk0]

Great score....I snagged 500 lbs of lead from my local range and it took me a while to smelt that down. I didn't have but a 25# rig though...I wouldn't do this in more than 75-100# at a time. For one thing...that much hot lead is dangerous if it should accidentally spill. I'd cut a propane tank if I had to do all over again. I wouldn't use ANY water to separate things either. I just let the light stuff float and "dross" it off. The rubber will just burn off and likely you don't have too much rubber in it. Just what came off the backstop in small pieces. If you find larger pieces...pull those out as you go. As stated earlier...just smelt down a few buckets at a time and use them up....store the rest behind the garage or basement for later smelting. Besides...you could use some for bartering too...let someone else do the hard part if you do.

Good luck with it...its gonna take you a while even to do a couple buckets per session.


redhawk

[MaryB]

I do 50 pound batches and only 2 a day max. But i have so many bad joints it is easier to list what still works! Especially the messed up spine.

[Tripplebeards]

Good luck! It took me about a good three plus weeks of working a good half of each day or more to smelt down a little over a ton of coww into ingots. I bet I went through about a dozen and a half or more propaign cylinders. I'd be selling a bunch of it to hire some one to smelt the rest for you...or trade someone a half the lead to do all the smelting into ingots for you.lol One person is never going to use half that lead their lifetime nor have room for it unless left outside in somebody's barn.

[D Crockett]

wish I could draw a picture of a set up that would be great for doing 28,000 pounds of lead you would need 3 guy to do it but I think there would be no problem in doing 1000 pounds a day. I will try to describe it to you there are 3 melting pot with 3 burners that 2 of them have a bottom pore spout on #3 pot pore in to pot #2 pot #3 is where you take out the junk /dross out of the mix then to pot #2 where you flux it I would flux it 3 times then pot #2 goes into pot #1 that is where you have all your ingot molds set up with 2 people working the molds one is pouring the ingots the other is empting the ingots for that much lead I would have at least 20 to 30 molds so you can keep a steady pace going I would give each of my partners a ton of lead for there own use that would leave you with 5 or 6 tons you can sale or trade with that is how I would do it D Crockett

[lightman]

I would love to hear about how he smelts this down and see pictures of his set-up. Me and a buddy can do 1000-1200# of wheelweights in a day with my set-up, but its a hard day.

[AndFereira]

I'd watch the guys who make sailboat keels. I think one guy built a fire under a bath tub and that did the trick

[MaryB]

Keel lead can be whatever they had handy to melt...definitely test with acid for zinc!