Crazy stevens favorite idea

[redneckdan]

What about a stevens favorite in .22 hornet? How hard do you think the firing pin conversion would be?[smilie=1:

[fourarmed]

I don't think the firing pin would be a problem. Weld up the block and redrill. I would have doubts about the strength of the action, however.

[Bob S]

WAY No Way. Even the bigger No. 44 Ideal action could not handle the Hornet. The Walnut Hill was offered in .22 Hornet for a very short time, and then the chambering was discontinued because those rifles were shooting loose in a very short time.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[redneckdan]

hmmm must not be as strong as they look

[StrawHat]

Nope, not real strong. Similar to the Ballard #3(?), the cast action.

Now, if you are the experimenting sort of guy, you can chamber it for the 22 WCF or 22-13-45. Both are identical and basically a blackpowder version of the Hornet.

HOWEVER, the chamber is identical to and will accept the Hornet cartridges so think about it a while before you create what is an accident waiting to happen.

Or at least make sure you have a good plan in mind. I have a Ballard #3 so chambered and a much younger shooter already knows of it and it's weaknesses. When I go on to Fiddler's Green, it is well known that the Ballard is his. Not a foolproof plan but as good as I can come up with.

[Bullshop]

How bout the 22 maynard extra long, 22 vello dog, 22 ccm. All one and the same.
I even have a reamer. Brass is available from Shroader bullet works, and dies from Huntingtons.
I have three of them. Makes a lb. of powder go a looooong ways.
blessings
bic/bs

[trevj]

If you do it, test fire it with a video camera running.

It'll save the coroners inquest a bunch of work, and they might get a decent screen capture of the "before" to put on top of the closed box you will be in, or on the bedside at the hospital, while you get the reconstructive work done, should the exploding action only cause "minor" damage.

The Favorite, on a good day, is pretty much maxed out on a standard velocity .22 Long Rifle, and is a risk with high velocity loads for any prolonged use.

Might be a go on a 25 ACP, or possibly a .32 Short...maybe...

Cheers
Trev

[Bret4207]

Save the Favorite for the 22LR. Even the 22 Mag is too hot for the favorite. Now a Contender Carbine in 22 K-Hornet.....there's something to think about!

[reivertom]

Why ruin a nice little Favorite?

[uscra112]

If you've got a centerfire Favorite, the S&W .32 short is a good choice. I've done a Hopkins and Allen boy's rifle with that, and it works just fine. Easy and cheap to reload, too. I've even played about with breech-seating .32 wadcutters in my Bay State (precursor to the H&A) and find that it's very accurate, at least in that rifle. A sort of micro-Schuetzen rifle, I do declare.

Another possibility is a shortened Hornet case. Take your hornet sizer die and grind, say, .100 inch off the base. Then cut an equally short Hornet chamber. Frank DeHaas covered this in one of his books about single-shot cartridges. Now you can load very light charges behind cast boolits, and have a lot fo fun with it, but there's no risk that somebody will fire a full load in it. Which, I do declare, would probably be fatal on the first try.

[JeffinNZ]

Yeap, that's crazy alright.

Where do we send the flowers?

[redneckdan]

Don't worry, I gave up on this idea long ago. Only reason I'm posting again is because I found it while searching for somethin else.

[Bigjohn]

I currently have a Model 44 1/2 in .22 rimfire in the safe. Same problem as we are finding with a lot of these older firearms; someone did not look after it and the barrel needs to be replaced.

I bought it as the outside still looks quite presentable and it might be worth doing up. I considered sleeving the present barrel but may have to settle on a new barrel.

The extractor flops around a little and looks damaged.

They appear to be a little overkill construction wise and could give the impression of being suitable for a larger cartridge.

John

[Bent Ramrod]

The Stevens 44-1/2 was chambered for the .38-40 and .44-40 by the factory, but the frame size and barrel shank were too small for any big .44 or .45 caliber cartridges. It was best proportioned for the .32-40 and .38-55 head sizes. With the firing pin bushed, it would handle .219 Zipper cartridges and others using this head size.

The 44-1/2 is rather a lot of rifle for the .22 LR. Most of the Stevens extractors, rim- or centerfire, flop around a little, and they wore noticeably with use.

The modern made Favorites are chambered in .17 and .22 RF Magnums. I don't know how the design was beefed up to handle these, but the originals, especially the 1894 versions, sure could not.

[calaloo]

Big john.
Send your barreled action to John Taylor And let him install a T.J's liner. You will be amazed and delighted. It will probably shoot as good or better as most .22's and you will not be able to see that it has been relined (no seam). Best of all he is fast, usually takes about two weeks including shipping time.

Don't worry too much about the floppy extractor, but if it does need to be replaced Wisners has them.

www.johntaylormachine.com

www.wisnersinc.com

Bill

[Marvin S]

I converted my 32RF to 32 S&W long. I shoot the lee tumble lubes in it with very good results.

[KCSO]

Since I just finished rebarreling a couple of Steven's guns a 44, and a 44 1/2 and have another 44 on the bench i will put in my 2 cents. The Steven's action is neat but not very strong. i refused to do a 44 in 32-40 and I would never do a Favorite in 22 hornet, even with modern steels. The Favorite action is best with 22 LR at most and i think that 22 magnum is the VERY top limit for that action. The 44 is a black powder action and should be held to B/P pressures, I don't even like to load smokless in them. The 44 1/2 would be the onl;y Steven's action I would chamber to Hornet. Yes I know YOU won't over load the gun ect.... but 9 chances out of ten some dufus will stick a full bore smokless hornet round in your gun by accident and it will be ruined. I don't think the gun would come apart but it would be so loosened that you would need a rebuild. I rank the Steven's with the Marlin Ballard, nice for B/P but not meant for smokless.

[Pepe Ray]

Because of the need for caution, I believe that any renovation of old firearms for actual recreational shooting, should be chambered in a true wildcat. Then, a factory load can not be chambered accidentally. Anyone shooting it must take the responsible course of action. Build your own ammo.
If your savvy enough to utilize a WC you must realize that the reason is for caution.
There is no absolute fail safe. Idiots will not be saved. But this COA should ameliorate the potential problem.
Pepe Ray

[Chev. William]

Musing on the Stevens Favorites and Cartridges:
The 1894 series actions come with soft steel screws that do not remain straight when subjected to firing loads greater than the rounds they were chambered for which seem to be The.22 Short, Long and Long rifle in Standard velocity, the .22 WRF, The .25 Stevens Short and Long, and the .32 Short and Long (Same diameters as the Colt CF versions) all of which were RF cartridges. The loads were BP and thereby limited the forces involved.
Conversion of the 1894 actions to modern powders and CF versions of the original cartridges is possible IF the Screws are changed for higher strength Steels properly Heat Treated and made with minimal Exposed Threads within the Action (a weak point in the Stevens made screws as internal threads fall in the bearing surfaces of the internal parts, not good for long use).
Also CF versions of the various calibers will be 'wildcats' or 'obsolete' cartridges so preclude the future use of Heavy loads by accident, although deliberate use is not avoided.

The Stevens !915 Favorite actions were slightly increased in strength by slight increases in Breech block Width, and larger diameter Breech Block and Lever Pivot Screws. they were chambered for the same range of cartridges but would withstand the Smokeless Powder loads also. Again the Screws may be changed out for better, stronger, alloys and proper heat treating to add reliability to the design. I have one 1915 actin that has a wider than normal Breach Block and Bigger diameter pivot screws fitted by a previous owner that is improved in strength about as far as it can be taken in this Receiver. I am Working it up as a .32 Long Colt RF/CF possible rifle at this time (delayed by my gunsmith going 'under the knife' for bilateral hip and knee replacements, and the ensuing healing and rehabilitation times).
This version is a candidate for CF conversions for .25ACP with minimal efforts as the Cartridge is rated for 17,405psi compared to modern .22RF cartridges rated for 23,000 to 25,000psi. The .25ACP can even use the Original Stevens .25 Stevens Chamber as the Semi rimmed design has enough to hold head space and extract properly. The ACP cartridge is about the same length as the Stevens Short but with an intermediate bullet weight between the Short and Long has MV comparable to the Long. Bullet diameters are nearly identical so the original rifling is suitable for the modern cartridge's use in short range hunting of small game/varmints, within 50 yards, or Target Shooting out to around 100 yards or more.

Stevens 44 Actions are a larger and stronger versions of the Favorite design so will handle the same range fo cartridges with improved reliability and service life. Yes the '44' action was chambered in even larger cartridges but some were short time offerings due to 'shooting loose' rather quickly. This action is a candidate for .22WMR use although the question of "Why" presents itself as current production loadings seem to all use jacketed bullets and that would need Modern Barrel Steels for long shooting life. The .22WRF would provide a lower power alternative to the .22WMR and usually is loaded with plated Lead bullets still, for less barrel wear no matter which alloy is used.
Again, this action may be fitted with improved Pivot alloy steels and may even be increased slightly in diameters to improve long term reliability of the action with the larger bores.

These are my thoughts on these actions and are posted for your review and comments.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[bubba.50]

your topic title said it best-CRAZY IDEA!!


but if ya try it, how's about makin' me beneficiary on yer life insurance?

[BCRider]

Uh, guys? You know that you hauled a 6 year old thread up from its grave, right?

[John Taylor]

A lot of people don't understand that the 22 hornet is loaded to 47,000 psi. Modern high velocity 22LR and magnum are loaded to 24,000. Then consider the larger area and the bolt thrust goes way up. The favorite in good condition can take the 22 rim fire and the two 17 rim fire ( except the new one). Also it can handle the 32 S&W short but the long will cause damage after a while.
Not as bad as a call I got once wanting to put a 50 BMG on a ten gauge action.

[Chev. William]

John,
I thought the .22 hornet was rated for 40,000psi?
But I agree that that is nearly twice the modern RF loading limits, which would bode ill for the Favorite action if in original conditions. The .32 Short and Long Colt cartridges, which are the same dimensions as the original .32 Short and Long RF cartridges would seem a better choice if someone wants to shoot the favorites in .32 caliber. they can be adapted to take .22, .25, or.27 Cal Blanks in the .32 Case and propel the Bullets at the original velocities so should let the action survive for a long life.
Another alternative is to start with .22 Hornet brass, expand the necks to .250" ID then reduce the OD in a .25ACP Carbide die to the diameters of a .25 Stevens Rf (.276") after which Trimming the length to 1.125" of the Stevens Long or less and using .25ACP bullets would give cartridges that could either be set for .22 Blank Adapters or used as CF cases in CF converted Rifles. Keep velocities in the original .25 Stevens range and long action life should result with no chance of some later owner putting a 'factory modern load' through it, as no factory is loading either .25 Stevens RF or in CF versions.

It would all be hand Reloads, and if using Black Powder, the Case internal Volume will limit the The charge to slightly less that the original .25 Stevens RF charge, about 10 to 11 grains, and the Commercial .25ACP bullets currently run at around 50 grains or less so that charge should give creditable performance for either "Pot Meat Hunting" or Paper Punching.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[mikeym1a]

These are such neat looking guns, that they seem to beg being 'hot-rodded'. But, as noted, they are best left to BP pressure levels. It was an interesting thread. Lots of good info. mikey

[Chev. William]

There are several Threads, on several Forums, about Stevens Rifles and Cartridges, including the Favorites of all eras, the Marksman, the Crack Shot, the Model 44, and the 44-1/2 seem to all be covered in some discussion.

Cartridges seem to run the Gamut from .17 Calibers to .22 Calibers (RF and CF varieties), .25 Calibers (both nominal .250" and .257" diameters), to the .32 Caliber range, both RF and CF, Colt and S&W versions are mentioned. For the larger adn Stronger actions some even consider larger caliber cartridges, but with many Cautions and Warnings along the way.

Personally, I feel an original 1889 or 1894 Stevens Favorite is Best in the original calibers and cartridges loaded to original pressures and velocities, with the only Factory Modern Loads recommended being .22 LR in Standard Velocity or Subsonic Loadings. the .25 and .32 ones can use Adapters or converted cartridges to fire original Velocity and Pressure loadings.

A Strengthened action probably would survive shooting .22 High Velocity RF ammo.

The 1915 Favorite os slightly stronger, but not much, so the same conditions apply unless strengthened pivots are fitted, then the choice of ammo could include .22 High Velocity hunting ammo.

The Marksman actin is somewhat stronger in design, but again not much, so original velocities and pressures should be observed.

The Crack Shot is a somewhat lighter design than the Marksman.

The Model 44 is is an enlarged Favorite in design and would take .22, .25, or .32 RF original loads much better than the Favorites, adn lends itself to careful CF conversions of this range of cartridges, but is still not strong enough for long life with larger calibers or higher pressure modern loadings.

The Model 44-1/2 is a different Design and is stronger by far than the Favorite types.
And the modern built versions are at home with a much wider range of calibers in modern loadings.

Basically I am saying many have experimented with these actions and you should learn from their experiences as written up in the various Threads, Forums, Articles, and Books.
Take care with what you do and be mindful of possible actins of subsequent owners of your experiments.

Best Regards,
Chev. William