How Hard is Federal Magnum Shot when melted for casting?

[Ironduke]

I have a new 25# bag of Federal Premium Magnum Shot that I purchased for melting and casting boolits with. It says "Hard, High Antimony Lead". Any idea how hard that would be? I am looking to cast some hard bullets in the Lyman #2 range, or Brinell hardness around 16 for 500 S&W and 454 Cassull. How hard is this shot in comparison? I know I can order a hardness tester for $50 or so, but I figured I'd ask here first. Thanks in advance.

[jmort]

Magnum shot is typically around 4 to 5% antimony with a dash of arsenic
Add some tin and you have a fine bullet alloy

[Hickory]

I'm guessing between 12-16 BHN.

[acoop101]

If you have any segnificant quantity shot I would sell it and get known alloys since shot is more valuable as shot than lead.

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[runfiverun]

it is actually re-bagged Rio shot with an antimony content of 3%

[dragon813gt]

Shot is a mess to melt down if you haven't done it before. The graphite is a pain to clean up IMO. I melted some down once and won't do it ever again.

[acoop101]

How much do you have? I need shot at reasonable prices, let me know if we can work out a trade

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[jmort]

"Produced with strict quality control, Federal Magnum lead shot is sure to deliver the performance and reliability you expect. Magnum Lead Shot is harder and slightly less dense than Chilled lead shot. Harder shot is more prone to retain its spherical shape during the firing sequence. Some shooters prefer Magnum's hardness advantage because it will likely pattern more predictably than softer shot. Magnum lead shot contains 4-6% antimony."

Chilled Shot is usually around 2 to 3%
Magnum is as I stated, typically

[Ironduke]

Well I usually see alloys in a parts ratio, not as a percent. I don't know what 4-6% antimony translates to in the alloy. My bullets are gas check designs, so I don't think I need super hard alloy. In fact, I am hoping these will rivet to some extent on target to offer more tissue damage. In the past I have water quenched the bullets when they drop from the mold, but i didn't on this batch. Not sure how much that matters though.

As for the shot, I can buy it locally. I only buy it when I am in the mood to cast some, but since I don't get to shoot as much as I once did, I don't cast as much as I want--I run out of empty brass to load up.

As far as melting the shot, it melts pretty easy, and the dross, and graphite float. So I scrape it off. No issues.

[jcourson]

The alloy calculator shows Magnum 6 and 9 at 4% Sb with a BHN of 13.
The alloy calculator shows Magnum 7-8.5 at 6% Sb ALSO with a BHN of 13.

Those numbers originally came from http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Lead-Magnum-Chilled/products/68/ per the notes.

[Ironduke]

Hmmm. SO these bullets are likely 3 BHN less than what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook recommends for the bullets I'm wanting. That assumes I didn't lose antimony from the initial alloy during the melt and scraping off the dross. That sucks, because I alread lubed and seated gas checks on these bullets. I guess I can load them down and plink with them.

[Ironduke]

So before I do anything with these bullets, I am curious about what my risks are. If the potential for poor accuracy is a problem, I can live with that for plinking purposes. If the risk is they might shatter on game, I am also okay with that because I believe the mass and expected velocity will do what I need done, at least on the size and toughness of the game I am looking at shooting. If the risk is that they might come apart at the forcing cone of the revolvers I plan to use, that is something else entirely.

I loaded 10 rounds in 45 Colt using PMC brass, CCI 300 primers, 4 gr. of Trailboss, and these 300 gr WFNGC sized to .452". Shooting in a Ruger SRH, so I have plenty of room in the cylinder. The boolits, by the way, sure feel hard. They dang sure don't scratch with a thumb nail.

[Jeffjmr]

I use magnum shot alot, having been given several hundred pounds of it a while ago. I cast 9mm, .38 and .45 boolits with them in target pistol loads and add some tin and water drop for my target rifle loads. All have performed to my satisfaction. Been a while since I tested the hardness of them. I’ll test some soon and get back.

Jeff

[lefty o]

hard to say exactly what they are selling, but having worked a few years in the lead plant at federal, the premium stuff loaded in shells is 5%, the stuff loaded in promo shells is approx 3%, and the plated shot in the hunting loads is 4%. the 4, and 5% stuff is purchased (not from rio), and the 3% stuff is made in house.

[runfiverun]

if you been gone a year or two they done changed and went cheap.
their federal grand shot shells are now their old promo shells just with the C-5 wad and a white color with a steel head and 3% antimony lead.
they are repackaging shot from Rio with the federal name on it.
Rio is making most if not all of their shot shell stuff now under contract.
the whole shot shell world has turned on it's ear in the last year or two.

[lefty o]

if you been gone a year or two they done changed and went cheap.
their federal grand shot shells are now their old promo shells just with the C-5 wad and a white color with a steel head and 3% antimony lead.
they are repackaging shot from Rio with the federal name on it.
Rio is making most if not all of their shot shell stuff now under contract.
the whole shot shell world has turned on it's ear in the last year or two.

i know who makes what of their shells, as of current day only the walmart 4 packs are made by rio, and they suck!

[Ironduke]

Well I took one of the .501 440 gr bullets and banged on it with a hammer. I placed it, gas check down on the anvil portion of my vice, and smacked it 6 times with a stone hammer. The bullet did squish down, and bent, but I did hit it pretty hard. Who knows what accuracy will be with this bullet, but my alloy isn't brittle or anything I would call soft.

212308

[lefty o]

Well I took one of the .501 440 gr bullets and banged on it with a hammer. I placed it, gas check down on the anvil portion of my vice, and smacked it 6 times with a stone hammer. The bullet did squish down, and bent, but I did hit it pretty hard. Who knows what accuracy will be with this bullet, but my alloy isn't brittle or anything I would call soft.

212308
accuracy with that bullet, is going to be very poor!! LOL the rest of em are hopefully better.

[jmort]

Their bagged shot is as I stated
As Federal themselves states

[runfiverun]

the federal promo packs are top gun hulls not Rio hulls, primers, and wads.
stuff done went and changed, and they figured out a way to cheapen their promo [and premium] rounds even further.
Federal anything is out of the clay target shooting game for anyone even remotely serious about it.

[lefty o]

the federal promo packs are top gun hulls not Rio hulls, primers, and wads.
stuff done went and changed, and they figured out a way to cheapen their promo [and premium] rounds even further.
Federal anything is out of the clay target shooting game for anyone even remotely serious about it.

no, just bought some a couple months ago, the value packs are rio's. and while they break targets, they have a harsher recoil than the same shell federal made.

[Jeffjmr]

I tested a slab from my magnum shot melt with my Lee tester. It comes up around 12 BHN but I have reason to believe my tester reads a bit low as linotype tests around 19 and I believe it actually should be 22.

Jeff

[runfiverun]

like I said you need to keep up.

the new style are top gun hulls with brass washed steel heads.[paper base and everything]
I have both types sitting right here [like in my hand as I type this] fired and unfired.

[lefty o]

like I said you need to keep up.

the new style are top gun hulls with brass washed steel heads.[paper base and everything]
I have both types sitting right here [like in my hand as I type this] fired and unfired.

you did notice i said the walmart 4 packs, i dont need to keep up. i understand your talking the more expensive shell, and yes i know they changed em! honestly, the 4 pack junk break birds fine, but open a box and its apparent they arent a federal shell, higher "brass" and a different crimp, and more loose shot rolling around in the box, and like i mentioned when fired they have a harsher recoil than the same shell federal actually makes. i also agree, they are going to lose a pile of long term customers over their choices of how they make shells over the last year.