00 buck in AA hulls 12ga

[Rusty Shackleford]

I've tried loading 00 9 pellets with mixed results. Problem being not enough room using white CB 118 wads. I cut pedals off said wads and get a good crimp and no bulges or dipples on hulls. Have not shot any of them yet. Anyone try this, I know it's not cool to alter load data.

[jsizemore]

Oh yeah. Check that barrel for lead when your done. CB wads are a bit on the soft side so recovered wads show collapse of the shot cup and plastic down the bore. Patterns are iffy at best. Other then that they work.

[jmort]

00 Buckshot is slightly oversized to use in a wad.
Drop down to around .310" and you will be happy

[james nicholson]

Try a straight hull, ie Federal or a Euro type. They give more interior diameter than Winchester or Remington hulls.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I'd cast enough 00 pellets to fill a mayo jar before i figured it out. Then ordered .310 and .300 molds from Sharpshooter USA. Yes, that was the answer to my problem. I was just trying to come up with a use for all those extra 00's. Pedals I will cut.

[RMc]

For 00B, (presuming actual nominal of .33"), in the AA Hull two pellet layers are the only way to go.

Look on page 35 of the IMR handbook linked below for 8 pellet buffered load data using the AA12R:

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/imr_reloading.pdf

[KrakenFan69]

That's what I use in the AA hulls, 8 stacked in layers of 2 in a CB-1114-12 wad filled with Super Sam buffer using 19 grains of Green Dot. Can't recall where I got the load data. I get 5/8 at least on an 18"x18" target at 50 yards with it.

Kraken Fan #69

[Hogtamer]

I have loaded many of the 32 gr 800x loads referenced by RMc above. Hard shot is one of the keys as is generous buffer under the buckshot. Really fast load and good pattern at 50 yds out of full choked 870

[quail4jake]

Check out Ballistic products section on buckshot loading, they already invented this wheel... IIRC, I landed on 9 pellets of copper plated 0 buck with mylar wrap and buffer, top card and roll crimp with a stout handful of Longshot which patterned well in my 1912 A.H.Fox AE 32" choked IM/IM. My main goal was a tight patterning load with moderate velocity that is easy on a fine old double, that was all from BPI. Anyway, check it out, you can call them for advice too.[smilie=s:

[Michael J. Spangler]

I shoot 00 bucks stacked 3x3 in a AA hull and CB WAA12 replacement wad.
They load fine and shoot fine.
30 yard target with a 18.5” cylinder bore barrel all pellets in a silhouette target.
Might not be the best for long range coyote but for fun and home protection it will get the job done

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ditto on Spangler's load. I use my same Trap Load with different payloads. Buckshot, Pumpkin Balls and Birdshot. 1 zo is the same no matter what you are weighing. except Gold.

I am using @20.5 gr of Green Dot and the same Claybuster WAA 12 replacement wad with Winchester Primers. This is a low pressure load running around 1100 fps and it is just enough pressure to get the Green Dot to burn completely.

I have somewhat of a problem with the "Don't alter Shotgun Recipes" rule. On high power loads I can see it. On loads that are running 9-10,000psi I don't see the point. These are not dangerous and changing a Hull, or Wad or Primer is not going to make any significant difference. Besides if you look at the literally thousands of Shot Shell Loads in any loading manual, you can usually find one that matches the changes you have made anyway.

I am more interested in getting the shot column in the right spot so the crimp folds shut correctly.

YMMV and you don't have to do what I do. I also figure that anyone here should have the intelligence to take responsibility for their own actions.

Randy

[Hogtamer]

Randy, that's pretty bad advice to inexperienced loaders. You need to read this about primer substitutions in modest loads that can make 3000 psi difference.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hogtamer: You're right. I shouldn't have phrased it that way.

There are loads with every combination of components known to man for every hull known to man available in most shotshell reloading manuals. This is why I don't agree with the blanket rule of not substituting components. Maybe I should have said,,,"don't do it unless you have consulted a loading manual."

I have actually scoured many of these manuals looking for loads that would do what I wanted, and that's how I know that differences are not that great at the lower levels.

With 3" Magnum loads,,, yes they are!

I have compared these loads side by side and there generally isn't enough difference in pressures or velocity to make any difference on low end loads.

Some primers are hotter than others (Fed 209's) and can make a difference, and on heavy loads they can be dangerous. However at the other end, this is not going to result in you blowing up your gun unless the gun is in bad shape to begin with.

On your article you will notice that according to the chart the difference between Rem 209 and Federal 209's was actually 2050 psi. Not the 2640 psi stated in the text. Also the velocity difference was only 34 fps which is less than the SD of most Shotshells.

This guy was talking shooting trap at a high level where a deviation in ammunition velocity can completely screw up your game. I get that. But nothing about his tests did anything to approach any unsafe condition. Even his hottest Primer/Load was still 700psi below SAAMI Max for 2 3/4 12 ga. Considering that the M500 and 870 are chambered for 3" Magnum Ammo I think there is some room to play.

The two primers I use most are Win 209 and Fed 209's and according to his chart they are 660 psi apart. So no big hazard there.

You'll notice that in the last paragraph I mentioned that you should have enough brains to take responsibility for your actions. That kind of means maybe it would be prudent to do a little research on your own before you start loading your 1.5oz. slugs up to 1800 fps.

I do understand your concerns, however those same concerns are rooted more in the fact that most people don't understand half of what they read, and seldom read an entire post from beginning to end before going blank. I can't be responsible for that, and neither can anyone else. That is where the Personal Responsibility part comes in.

Playing with Guns and Reloading Ammunition requires both Attention to Detail and Personal Responsibility and this is true for most everything. However for some reason they don't teach it in schools.

Like I said: YMMV, and you don't have to do what I do. ;>)

Randy

[MOA]

Randy, that's pretty bad advice to inexperienced loaders. You need to read this about primer substitutions in modest loads that can make 3000 psi difference.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Dead on Hogtamer, primer and wad changes can cause BIG changes in pressure. Wrong hull ID is next for dangerous pressure loads. I may play around with shot or load height, but not with primers or wads, clipping petals imho not a big deal, but changing them ( wads ) without knowing what pressures may be generated in a no go for me.

Just got done loading 00 buck in some Federal 3-1/2" 10 gauge shell last week. Loaded sweet. IMHO Federal plastic, either, gold metal, or the Hi Power are the best I've tried so far. I plan on tryin the new clear Federals that BPI is selling for my 12 gauge slug and buckshot loads. Like the visibility of the shell on contents identification when in a hurry.

[W.R.Buchanan]

primer and wad changes can cause BIG changes in pressure. Wrong hull ID is next for dangerous pressure loads. I may play around with shot or load height, but not with primers or wads, clipping petals imho not a big deal, but changing them ( wads ) without knowing what pressures may be generated in a no go for me.

So you don't have a reloading manual with all those Recipes that would tell you what is going to happen?

I've got about 5 and most reloading manuals I've seen have Shotshell data in them as well as rifle and pistol ammo data.

Last,,, how do you know that Clipping Petals is not a big deal? I've never seen anything in any manual about modifying wads.

Here's the deal guys. Anyone who is using internet data or suggestions for loading any ammo without verifying it in a manual is not too bright.

I even require several manuals to agree on a particular load range before I do it. Then Interpolation comes into play. Interpolation can also be used with shotshell loads.

Randy

[Michael J. Spangler]

So you don't have a reloading manual with all those Recipes that would tell you what is going to happen?

I've got about 5 and most reloading manuals I've seen have Shotshell data in them as well as rifle and pistol ammo data.

Last,,, how do you know that Clipping Petals is not a big deal? I've never seen anything in any manual about modifying wads.

Here's the deal guys. Anyone who is using internet data or suggestions for loading any ammo without verifying it in a manual is not too bright.

I even require several manuals to agree on a particular load range before I do it. Then Interpolation comes into play. Interpolation can also be used with shotshell loads.

Randy


I’m not trying to be a jerk but I have seen Lyman manuals that have data that states to remove the petals from the wad.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Spangler: I was joking.

Randy

[Michael J. Spangler]

Spangler: I was joking.

Randy

Well then never mind hahahahah[smilie=p:
Carry on.

[MOA]

Spangler: I was joking.

Randy

Well there Randy, lets just keep the joke going for a few more laughs.
In defense of my comments, please observe the following images and statements as credible facts from our load data publishers.

I would also like to note that I am sorry the images are not of a better quality, but my phone camera is all I have for these images, I hope the images are clear enough to illustrate why staying within the load data for someone new to this activity is important to them and anyone around them.

I normally would not bother to go to the trouble on most comments posted on these threads but due to newcomers to the shotshell reloading world, I think it best for the novice or the beginner to stick to published load data as it is published until they have more knowledge and experience. A good looking shell is fine, but a safe shell pressure wise is even better than a pretty shell.

In response to W. R. Buchanan's comment on my post, it is presented forthwith:

1. As to not having any reloading manual.......well matter of fact I do. Started collecting them when I got into shotshell reloading in 1979. Been collecting them ever since. Here are just a few I had handy that I use for some of my loadings. As far a internet data, I do use data from the powder and bullet manufacturers that they publish on their websites.
https://s19.postimg.org/aljhpcn4j/new_images_Dec_29_2017_004.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

WAD SUBSTITUTIONS
1. Hodgdon chart : Hodgdon data manual 1st edition pg. 67
Wads can be changed, but should be done at mfg recommendations for staying within known safe pressure ranges. (they can be done, but should be done by using published data by the manufactures).
https://s19.postimg.org/evy5kg7hv/new_images_Dec_29_2017_012.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
2. Hodgdon data manual 1st edition pg. 17
This illustrates just how much pressure can change just by changing the depth of your crimp on your load, something most do not realize or think about. Most but not all shotguns and shotgun data don't go much over 11 thousand psi, so going from a safe load of 10k to over 12k can happen real quickly with only seemingly minor changes, and a safe load becomes now a dangerous one for the shooter and anyone standing nearby.
https://s19.postimg.org/u3e55a4mr/new_images_Dec_29_2017_013.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
3.Lyman shotshell 3rd edition pg. 80
https://s19.postimg.org/i1irb4noj/new_images_Dec_29_2017_002.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
4. Lyman shotshell 4rd edition pg. 61
Pressure changes with wad changes.
https://s19.postimg.org/4lvql6mr7/new_images_Dec_29_2017_008.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
PRIMER CHANGES
A few illustrations with just a change in primers.
1. Lyman shotshell manual 4th edition pg. 49
https://s19.postimg.org/dfmn2shkz/new_images_Dec_29_2017_001.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
1a. Hodgdon primer pressure data pg. 49
https://s19.postimg.org/uswxhon6r/new_images_Dec_29_2017_005.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
WAD MODIFICATION
1. Lyman shotshell manual 4th edition pg. 256 Buckshot Pedal removal.
https://s19.postimg.org/5a4l4nvwz/new_images_Dec_29_2017_006.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
2. Lyman shotshell manual 4th edition pg. 271 Buckshot Pedal removal.
https://s19.postimg.org/phi0x03oz/new_images_Dec_29_2017_007.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
3. Lyman shotshell manual 5th edition pg. 363 Buckshot Pedal removal.
https://s19.postimg.org/vwh1t3xdv/new_images_Dec_29_2017_009.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

This concludes my response to laughs, chuckles, and joking.

[jmort]

If I remove the petals, I use a teflon wrap.

[redgum]

FWIW....
I got me one of LEEs .311" Round Ball Molds and cast a cup full of '00-SG' out of stick-on ww...
9 of them stack nicely 3x3 into Win AA 32g wads and they crimp and shoot just fine for me

[pls1911]

My apologies to those who may have seen a prior post with this photo.
I wanted to show a visual of the load described above, 8 buckshot at 90 degrees in an AA hull, over a nominal load of Unique.
At 30 yards through a Mossberg slug barrel (cylinder bore, no choke), all 8 remain in the 6" center of an 8" paper plate.
Groups even tighter when the Wad petals are taped closed.
Bad news for anything in the line of fire.

211992

[trapper9260]

I had done a test on 00 bucks shot in my 410 .What i did is I did not roll the shot to take off the sharp edges of the where the spur was and the pattern was all over and then I roll the shot to take the sharp edges off ,I had got a good pattern . just wanted to let who would like to know on it. For when they do there test rounds.This s what I found for myself for what i was looking for.

[Nazgul]

I'd cast enough 00 pellets to fill a mayo jar before i figured it out. Then ordered .310 and .300 molds from Sharpshooter USA. Yes, that was the answer to my problem. I was just trying to come up with a use for all those extra 00's. Pedals I will cut.

I was in the same situation, had an excess of OO buck and a .310" six hole mold. I found tha 2 - .310" pellets and one OO will stack inside a cup. Used up all my excess OO buck that way.

Don