Sporterized Long Branch No 4 MKI

[JMax]

I picked up a clean Long Branch that I suspect was sporterized in the UK. I has Birmingham proof marks and is stamped ENGLAND. Additionaly it has a Parker Hale front sight ramp that uses original military front sights. I am looking for a hood for this front sight but to no avail from the usual sources.

The barrel has excellent rifling with virtually no pitting, excellent Pope crown, the bolt is SN to the rifle and has a 0 bolt head. It looks like it shoot well and I am now working up loads.

But I would like front sight hood. The base is .440” wide, very different than available front sight bases. Any suggestions on where to look?

[TAC14]

Lots of oddball sights show up on Ebay.

[curator]

Try looking on the Military Surplus Collectors forum: http://www.milsurps.com/ They have a buy/sell listing and lots of info about Lee Enfields. Some of the members there live in the U.K. and can find odd bits and pieces at yard sales and antique shops. Congrats on snagging a LongBranch Lee Enfield. They are about the best-made of the No.4Mk1* rifles. While you are researching, check out Steve Regwell's website for information on everything .303 British: http://www.303british.com/id37.html

[JMax]

The barrel is 5 groove, dated 44 like the rifle, the chamber area of the barrel is stamped 2.222" in addition to the pressure is 18.5 tonnes. Still cleaning the barrel and plan to shoot it tomorrow with a few loads. It also has a "micrometer" rear sight.

[leebuilder]

Hi. Good find getting a LB "bomber". I think there are no sight hoods made for the PH front sights, belive me i have looked and other PH hoods will not fit. Caution about the crown seen many that look very good but under closer inspection they are off square.
Be well

[higgins]

I too have a sporterized 1950 LB, but mine was done by an American trying to make a hillbilly deer rifle. Fortunately the metal was unmolested, the bore is very good (probably only fired with commercial SP hunting ammo). I have all the Canadian pieces to restore it except an uncut forearm. The chances of finding one intact are slim. Mine was cut off on the forward edge of the lower barrel band. I've decided to try to epoxy a forearm tip on the forearm, with the joint under the barrel band. Anyone have a dark walnut cut-off forearm tip laying around that includes some of the barrel band groove?

[JMax]

I checked to see how square the crown was and eyeballing it with my machinists square there is a 3-5 mil difference from side to side. I will get a proper pilot for my 90 degree crown cutter and square it off next week. I did spent some range time today (40 F) and fired 10 shots into 2 1/2" by 4" at 100 yards using a NOE 314-200 (Lyman 314299 equivalent) bullet sized to .313" sitting on 12.1 gr Unique. A fun load, will load up a bunch more and go after clay pigeons while waiting for the pilot.

The barrel was shortened and the PH ramp was soldered on. It has hood slots machined into it like a Redding/Williams/Remington so it appears that it was designed for a hood, I just have to find one.

This is turning out to be another fun project.

[leebuilder]

Higgens, nurmrich/e gunparts had cut off forends at one time, now i do not know. Maybe try Brian Dick longarms as well.

Jmax I know of the grooves for the hood, but i havent found any PH branded ones that fit close to it. I managed to get one off a squires bingham model 20, 22lr to work and had to use a hammer to make fit but a wrong glance may jar it loose. Never tried any ones that you mentioned if one works please share!. I have come across 3 different types of PH brand front ramps on no4s. Of all of the bombers i have come across I bet 90% have that offset/oblong crown.
Be well

[JMax]

I discovered that I have a pilot for my 45 degree crown cutter so it gets a new crown in the AM, whohoo.

The US bases are 1/4" or 3/8" wide but if I find one I will let you know.

By the way why do you refer to them as bombers?

When I was stationed at Loring AF Base in North Maine we would go over to New Brunswick and once to Nova Scotia.

Could not wait so I re-crowned this evening. I am including photos of a partial cut and the finished cut and the I did a finish lap with Clover fine valve going compound with my muzzle lap.

Thanks again for the tip, I really appreciate it.

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[leebuilder]

Bombers
they were issued as survival rifles to the RCAF planes after ww2. Some were modifed surplus, some were from parker hale and there were the EAL rifles purpose built, EAL rifles fall into two catagorys military and civilian (each catagory has two catagorys, purpose built and modifed surplus). Some said that some issue modifled no4s were issued to the rangers.
One LGS i frequent decided on the following convention.
marked PH on the reciver or stamped "surrey" or "sussex" on the barrel" its a parker hale no4
if its and bubbaed no4 its a bubba no4
if it has a cut down forend and a trimmed barrel ( behind the original front sight "lugs") with a soldered PH front sight ramp, a bad crown, cooey like front sling swivel its a bomber.
Confused yet?

[samari46]

Parker hale did a few grades of sporters using the P14 or U.S. Model of 1917. However they also did use the #4 platform as well. I have a 1943 Long Branch with the barrel cut back to about 22" and forend also cut down. Does have a Parker Hale front sight ramp that takes standard #4 front sight inserts. Mine has a two groove barrel. Think there were either 3 or 4 grades of the Parker Hale #4 sporters, the one I mentioned would have been the cheapest one. Frank

[leebuilder]

Not aware of PH p17 or 14s, seen a few BSA p14 &17s as well as churchil branded ones and bubbas.
i can only assume there are more.
there were PH modifed no1s sold by sears up here. They have no rear hand guard and the cut outs were filled in with wood, the workmanship is quite good.
Ph also modified m98s and Springfields in even more grades.
PH also built target rifles on the No4 for civilian target shooting.
be well

[JMax]

Leebuilder,
The barrel is approximately 22" long, no PH stamps visible and I have included a couple of photos of the Cooey like front swivel. Not confused just interested in a complex time in our world.

It would be very interesting for the family as my wife's father was in the RCAF during WWII while mine was in USAAF as a flight engineer on B24 and B29 bombers.

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[leebuilder]

Morning, that's the front sling swivel exactly.
I can only assume they built in large numbers. Issue to where and how many I have no idea. Before our now debunked gun registry they were piles of them around, now not so many. You could get one for as little as 50 bucks. I have one I use for hunting now it's a Mk2 its very accurate, I think I trade it for a pair of boots.

[JMax]

Leebuilder,
Thank you very much for the info.

John

[24isBoss]

Try www.ssporters.com for any parts you may need for your Enfield!

[leebuilder]

Leebuilder,
Thank you very much for the info.

John

Your welcome.
Good luck !
Ralph

[rondog]

I have a nice unmodified Longbranch No.4, now y'all are making me wanna go shoot it!

[JMax]

It has been cold here and I got to the range today to shoot groups. Barrel has been crowned, stock relieve where it was pressing on the barrel on one side, loaded up some ammo and setup targets including 6 clay pigeons and a paper target at 100 yards. The pigeons were gone in 7 rounds out of a cold barrel. Shot a 10 shot group with photos included. I am very pleased with this rifle as I am a month shy of 70 and still like to use iron sights. The micrometer rear sight was set to 800 yards for my 12.1 gr Unique load using an NOE 314-202 bullet sized to .314".

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[Larry Gibson]

My CNo4 MkI* Longbranch is still in full military trim and is in very good if not excellent condition. Been thinking of selling it but every time a thread like this comes along I think I need to shoot it more often........

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[rondog]

My CNo4 MkI* Longbranch is still in full military trim and is in very good if not excellent condition. Been thinking of selling it but every time a thread like this comes along I think I need to shoot it more often........

211506211507

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I believe your rear sight is for a No.5 Mk.1 Jungle Carbine. I know those were graduated to 800, I think the No.4's were graduated to 1200.

I recently sold my No.5 carbine to finance another rifle. Hated to do it, but that kept the Financial Officer off my back.

[Larry Gibson]

No idea, that's how I got it. Someone above my pay grade with knowledge of these rifles will have to answer that......

[tbx-4]

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I believe your rear sight is for a No.5 Mk.1 Jungle Carbine. I know those were graduated to 800, I think the No.4's were graduated to 1200.

Ron,
You are correct.

Larry,
I may know this but I ain’t above your pay grade.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The gun you have is probably a Parker Hale "Deluxe Sporter." They were made from surplus #1 and #4 guns. Thousands of surplus guns were converted after WWII when things were lean and PH's Cash Flow was weak.

The Standard Sporters were made by simply removing the upper handguard and cutting the stock back a little. Some but not all got sling swivels. Mine didn't have them.

The Deluxe Sporters were made from guns that probably had bad muzzles worn from excessive cleaning. So they cut off 3" and Silver Soldered on a PH Ramp Front Sight. They also got a 5 round Santa Fe Magazine which is worth more than the gun.

I have one of both, however my Deluxe Long Branch had a funky two groove barrel that was toast. I had it bored to .35-303 but haven't finished the gun yet. Soon maybe. My Standard Sporter got turned into a L39 Resto Mod, and is a great shooter. It had an excellent barrel.

Here's pics along with a Catalog Page showing the two models. They were $65 and $75 respectively.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

That's certainly interesting, a #5 rear sight on the CNo4 Mk I*. Do other CNo4 Mk I* (made at Longbranch after 1950) rear sights go to 1200 yards?

[higgins]

When I got interested in military rifles and ammunition many years ago, one of the first things I learned is that you very seldom say "always" or "never" when it comes to just about anything pertaining to military arms. While it's not normal for a LB No.4 to have the 800 yd. No.5 rear sight, anything is possible when people in the armories start grabbing parts for assembly, and even more possible when they go through rebuild or get sent to an ally whose armorers may not be as aware as UK armorers.

In the early 50s LB may have been trying to use up leftover No.5 sights they somehow had on hand (maybe someone in England sent LB the wrong backsights during the war, or LB made No.5 sights to be sent to England for assembly); since Enfields were used all over the world, maybe it was installed in a foreign armory; maybe a previous civilian owner installed it. In any case, if it is stamped with the intertwined LB logo that's where it was made. If that mark that looks like a B is indeed a B instead of the LB mark, it was probably made in England. Confusing enough?

[Kevinakaq]

No idea, that's how I got it. Someone above my pay grade with knowledge of these rifles will have to answer that......

From British Enfield Rifles vol2 by Stratton (way above my grade...). Hope this helps.

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Looks like the 8th variation used at Longbranch until 55 went to 1300. Picture of my 1950 LB which indeed does go to 1300.
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Additionally...the leaf on my 1950 LB is a seventh variation as the
8th variation leaf is milled and goes to a 1000 (the 8th variation sight used the 7th variation leaf). Your leaf appears to be a fourth variation. I knew there was a reason I invested in these books...
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[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry: They are all over the place and parts tend to be mixed and matched with no regard for anything.

neither one of my guns had a ladder rear sight. Both came to me with a simple L shaped rear sight with two apertures set for two different ranges 300-600 yards. I bought a "Machined Ladder Sight" for my first gun (the Resto mod.) and played with it until I made the adapter for the Redfield Olympic which is far superior to even the PH Target sights.

PH also made an attachment for the Ladder Sight which allowed Windage adjustments (PH 8-53) which I looked for, but they go pretty dear on Ebay.

Here's a pic of my Front Sight adjustment tool.

Randy

[curator]

211688

[Pioneer2]

I have mint walnut stocked 1950 LB with 5 groove barrel unmessed with.These were made in Ontario.

[Pioneer2]

I too have a sporterized 1950 LB, but mine was done by an American trying to make a hillbilly deer rifle. Fortunately the metal was unmolested, the bore is very good (probably only fired with commercial SP hunting ammo). I have all the Canadian pieces to restore it except an uncut forearm. The chances of finding one intact are slim. Mine was cut off on the forward edge of the lower barrel band. I've decided to try to epoxy a forearm tip on the forearm, with the joint under the barrel band. Anyone have a dark walnut cut-off forearm tip laying around that includes some of the barrel band groove?
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3810&idcategory=63