Chinese Are The Great Copiers As Was Japan Once

[vzerone]

Wonder how Glock feels about this.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/22/chinese-norinco-glock-clone/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2017-12-23&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

[bedbugbilly]

I'm not a Glock guy but I wonder if they even have gone as far as parts are interchangeable or mags are interchangeable?

Just another example of the willingness of the Chinese to steal designs and undercut the USA or other countries without any regard for patent laws. How long before these hit the shelves in the USA with a lower price to take away from legit manufacturers? Unfortunately, price will dictate sales and like with a child, when you reward bad behavior it continues. IMHO

[NoZombies]

I wonder if the guy who patented the Iver Johnson safe-trigger rolled in his grave when Gaston Glock patented the same exact thing 90 years later?

[vzerone]

Well they say not much is new under the sun. S&W and other's pretty much copied that trigger too.

[Bigslug]

They were copying Remington 870's pretty exactly a short few years back, so I wouldn't exactly say this is a shocker. Don't forget their C96 clones from way back. Then there's all the various Browning rip-offs throughout the ages from all points of the compass.

But where's the rest of the gun? All I see is a gutted frame, and we've got plenty of non-Glock Glock frames being made here. . .as well as 10/22 receivers that didn't come from Ruger. And the Berettas out of Turkey. . .

Sorry Bernie. . . I guess I lost my sense of outrage some time ago.:neutral:

[vzerone]

I'm waiting for those companies that make 80% Glock frames to come out with the large frame. Spoke to one of them a month ago and they said they were about to unleash them. They said, in their own words "it took us a long time to figure out Glocks soup for the polymer". So I asked if they were saying Glock made a very good polymer frame. They reply was "the best".

[robertbank]

I'm not a Glock guy but I wonder if they even have gone as far as parts are interchangeable or mags are interchangeable?

Just another example of the willingness of the Chinese to steal designs and undercut the USA or other countries without any regard for patent laws. How long before these hit the shelves in the USA with a lower price to take away from legit manufacturers? Unfortunately, price will dictate sales and like with a child, when you reward bad behavior it continues. IMHO

Lets not get to much in a twist here. The Glock patients would have expired long ago. Nobody up here knows if this is all they are producing or going with a full gun.

Glock was asking almost a $1kCdn for their G 17 up here or about $800US earlier this year so I would not weep to many tears for Heir Glock and Co. The price came down pretty quickly when the M&P's are offered under $600Cdn. The Chinese copies of the 1911 and SIG 226 designs get lots of folks started in pistol shooting and that is not all bad. Most of what made Glocks reputation has been copied by virtually every gun manufacturer around the world including the US.

Price, pocket book, & perceived value determine where and what I buy. The "who" I leave to my choices of Scotch, Beer and Wines.

Take Care

Bob

[dragon813gt]

China's disregard for patent law and intellectual property is really ridiculous. No one wants to do anything about it. And anyone doing business in China has to give them access to everything. Can't exactly have fair trade when they're thieves. I remember when they knocked of the BMW X5 for their domestic market. None of the automotive companies were happy. But they all still do business there. And Chinese brand cars are poised to be sold in the US in a few years time. This is when we will see who's really a sell out. I'm hoping for them to completely fail but I doubt that will happen.

Sorry for the slight derailment. This particular issue is a big one for me. The company I work for is considering starting up a manufacturing facility in China. That will be the end of our patent advantage because they will blatantly rip it off and become our biggest competitor.

[robertbank]

I agree but would add it is all about money. Where can a company and it's owners make the most money determines the decision as it always has. The rest of the factors are sound bites. Communication and transportation are the only two changes we have seen that make borders insignificant these days.

For the record in my banking days I had a customer who had a registered trading name in the US and Canada for over 50 years. He effectively lost the exclusive use of his company's trade name when a Missouri judge refused "to rule against his neighbor" and forced a small cash settlement in favour of the US firm. It would have cost my client over $100,000 dollars to appeal the decision beyond the State level.

Life is not always fair and all hands are not always as clean as we sometimes think. The Chinese seem to be more up front about what they do mainly, I guess because they can.

Take Care

Bob

[vzerone]

I wish the U.S. would release it's sanctions on Russian product firearm related. I also don't like how the U.S. does trade with an "enemy", but like Bob said it's about money. The things that really make the world turn are Money, Power, Greed, and Women (use your imaginations on that last one folks).

[EMC45]

I'd like to get my hands on a Chinese M1A that Marstar carries...

[robertbank]

Gave one to my son. They are great rifles. They do need dressing up but once done are excellent shooters.

Take Care

Bob

[Handloader109]

Why are you guys bashing a cheap copy of a handgun that has already been copied? Nothing new or under a patent that is glockenspiel any more, Gen1 patents have way expired. No, not fun of the Chinese, but Puck a different item that IS still under a patent

[GONRA]

"I'd like to get my hands on a Chinese M1A that Marstar carries..."

Here's decades olde US info:
GONRA's Chicom M1A isa Polytech. Read that Norinco also made/exported them too.

Only shot Chicom CWS case Berdan primed NC ammo in mine. Gotta case + ammo.
Shot Just Fine. This ammo seems to be relatively low pressure. Wanna take it easy on the rifle.

Have no idea what Marstar sells, any quality improvements that may have been made, etc.

[robertbank]

The initial receivers had problems. That didn't last long. The guns in the last 10 years have been great. Lots of ways to make them better. The gun I had was a way better shooter than I was.

Take Care

Bob

[Leadmelter]

Don't forget the illegal drugs they make and send over here to kill our citizens.
Thank Your Obummer
Leadmelter
MI

[FergusonTO35]

As far as I know, Chinese handgun and rifle imports have been prohibited in the USA for about 20 years so we probably won't see any China Glocks here.

[Wayne Smith]

Anyone who has studied their culture knows that it is expected and appropriate to copy other's work. Their culture values building on what has been said and done in the past. This is true academically as well as industrially. It is a fundamental difference in cultural values and focus and goes back centuries. We are not going to change them, we need to learn how to deal with them.

[dragon813gt]

Anyone who has studied their culture knows that it is expected and appropriate to copy other's work. Their culture values building on what has been said and done in the past. This is true academically as well as industrially. It is a fundamental difference in cultural values and focus and goes back centuries. We are not going to change them, we need to learn how to deal with them.

All well and good until they enter the world economy. The rest of the world respects patent and intellectual property rights. Just because their culture says it's okay doesn't mean the rest of the world has to accept it. They need to accept the fact that they can't copy patents and intellectual property. Pretty simple in theory but you will never convince them.

[dkf]

Never saw a Chinese splash product that was worth anything, even on the industrial end. They have a hard time even copying something properly then comes the actual manufacturing of the copy, which they more often than not fall way short of. Any company that is smart will keep any items or property they don't want ripped off out of China. That especially includes any products they plan to manufacturer in China, even in their own plant. Getting involved with them on the scale we have is/was a big mistake.

[Piedmont]

And don't forget that it is culturally acceptable to sell rat meat to foreigners and label it as chicken. Also, perfectly acceptable to paint children's toys with lead paint as long as it is for export. Heck, probably fine for domestic sale, too. My understanding is the air pollution is horrid over there.

[dragon813gt]

My understanding is the air pollution is horrid over there.
That's an understatement. I have little desire to go back there. To many people jammed on top of each other. There seems to be no rules regarding driving. And the air quality is atrocious. A whole lot of history but I didn't like it there.

[MUSTANG]

That's an understatement. I have little desire to go back there. To many people jammed on top of each other. There seems to be no rules regarding driving. And the air quality is atrocious. A whole lot of history but I didn't like it there.

Chinese air and environmental quality (pollution) are progressing just as occurred in South Korea with expansion of business and Industry. China has a strong man government; let's see if they too follow the path of South Korea and other Asian Countries that have become powerhouses :

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2012/09/178_75100.html

Ultimately "Strong Men" seem to meet their maker in the Far East.

[TAC14]

You mean like we copied the British in the fabric mill business and put them out of business ?

The OP of course has verified evidence of the Chinese selling toys in the USA with lead paint and rat meat here as chicken ? Links ?

[dragon813gt]

There is verified evidence of lead paint on kids toys. There have been multiple instances of it. This was a large one from ten years ago: https://www.usrecallnews.com/list-of-recalled-toys-for-lead-poisoning-hazards-childrens-toy-recalls-from-china/

Lead has been found in plastic toys as well.

[dkf]

Air, water, land, everything. Not uncommon at all for human bodies to come floating down the river right through the city. Though not as uncommon as all the animals (domestic and wild) that come floating down the river regularly.

You even have to be suspect of the lead coming from China.

[bruce drake]

210432
Look familiar? NORINCO's export M16. North Korea, Vietnam, Iran and Venezuela have all purchased lots of these rifles for their military and paramilitary units.
I wonder if Colt or Armalite ever got any royalties from the Stoner design...

[FergusonTO35]

That's hilarious!! Countries that hate us, buying Chicom copies of the rifle most closely associated with American Imperial Atrocities (North Korean description).

[robertbank]

Those Chinese copies sell up here for around $600CDN. The S&W basic rifle goes for about the same money. Guys that own them say they work and last. The patient rights would have expired long before the Chinese got around to making copies of them so I am not sure what the fuss is all about. Personally., if I was in the market for a M4/C7 variant I would be chasing a Colt Canada rifle. They make a very good rifle. They go for a bit more than $600. though. Alas I have no use for one.

Take Care

Bob

[Plate plinker]

Hate the chinesium

[Speedo66]

How 'bout them putting substitute chemicals in children's formula and dog food, killing some of both. No act is too low when it comes to profits.

[Lance Boyle]

I wonder if the guy who patented the Iver Johnson safe-trigger rolled in his grave when Gaston Glock patented the same exact thing 90 years later?

I thought patents expired after fifty years?

[NoZombies]

I thought patents expired after fifty years?

It's actually 7-22 (+ in some cases) years depending on the patent, but the thing is, after the patent expires, it's public domain, and cannot be patented again. How Glock got away with it is a mystery, but he certainly did.

[MUSTANG]

I thought patents expired after fifty years?


The following provides longevity of Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights:


How Long Does Patent, Trademark or Copyright Protection Last?
Last Published: 7/7/2016
A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted.

A U.S. trademark generally lasts as long as the trademark is used in commerce and defended against infringement.

Copyright protection is for a limited term. For works created after January 1, 1978, copyrights last for 70 years after the death of the author. For works "made for hire" (covering the usual type of work owned by a small business), the copyright lasts for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For more detailed explanation of copyright terms, visit the Copyright Office webpage or consult this guide on Duration of Copyright provided by the Copyright Office.

A trade secret can be protected indefinitely as long as the secret is commercially valuable, its value derives from the fact that it is secret, and the owner take reasonable precautions to maintain its secrecy.

[Shopdog]

From a "little" left field....

We jack a B&C buck and do what with it?Yup,head over to the taxidermist,and sometime later....the bruiser is hanging on the dining room wall.

Imitation is the highest form of flattery,or some such.

So,china blatantly rips off design...generally they're picking "classics".My focus is more about shop equipment....but it isn't that far a stretch from other areas of industry concern.The problem/issue for me isn't the here N now....do you want the original or want the obvious chinkenese copy?That's an A-B decision($$$).The thing that's gonna hurt is down the rd.When they've perfected the study of existing design....seen the process from a manufacturing perspective,learned the legwork....broadened their intellectual base(vertical vs horizontal integration)....forced any normal thinking entity to seriously reconsider investment potential with "in-house" engineering.Well,gives new meaning to,"dumbing down society".