Cutting the spruce

[Gundogblue]

This may be a dumb question but how long approx do you guys wait in seconds before you cut the spruce. The reason I ask is because on my first batch of cast boolits I was cutting the spruce way too soon, and got lead smears all over the top of the mould, and some really ugly boolits. I had to use a propane torch to clean the lead off the top of the mould, so now after the lead has been poured into the mould I count to 15 before I cut the spruce, but that may be waiting too long. As usual any advice is always greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Paul

[Tonto]

as you cast, you will see the sprue color change as it solidifies...waiting a couple of seconds more before you cut is usually right and as you've learned, too soon and you get smears.....treat the mould top with a 2-cycle oil and a q-tip as described elsewhere in these forums, that helps a lot with the smear prevention....
or as your title says, cut the spruce, either a handsaw or chainsaw make quick work [smilie=s:

[jeepyj]

I watch the puddle of lead harden then about one second after that I give her a whack. The key is watching the lead transform from a liquid to a solid. That when it kinda sucks down inside the mold to finish fill out. This method is a bit harder if your pressure casting but unless I have a problem mould I like to see it harden.

[Beagle333]

I cast pretty hot and I wait about 7-8 seconds. So I can't really see needing to go to 15 unless you are casting really hot (as in, making deep HP's using pure lead). Everybody will have a different technique and time. I cut the sprue with my gloved hand, and if I have waited until it is actually difficult to push the plate off the mold and cut the sprue, that tells me that I have waited a couple seconds too long and I have to reach for the stick and know that I should speed up a little.

Also, smear a light coat of sprue plate lube (synthetic 2-stroke oil) on the bottom of the sprue plate with a Q-tip and then wipe all of it off with a piece of denim or burlam, about every 40-50 pours and it will help with reducing any smearing or buildup. (You can't get it all off, that's the point. The invisible layer that is left will be enough to protect the plate and top of mold, but not enough to migrate into the cavity and cause problems) Learn to do this quickly and without letting the sprue plate or mold cool very much at all.

[largom]

Watch the puddle change from liquid to solid, only takes a few seconds, maybe 10. I then cut the SPRUE with a gloved hand by pushing down and out.

[mehavey]

When the lead puddle color goes "flat", you can cut the sprue.
NOTE: by just 'breaking' the sprue plate loose slightly -- then wait just a half second before fully opening -- you can dramatically minimize lead smear

[lightman]

I also watch the color change from silver to dull grey. I give it another second or two and then cut it. The time to do this can vary from molt to mold.

[Strtspdlx]

learn to watch the puddle. don't worry about time in seconds and such, watch the puddle, when it changes state and exterior appearance you should be ready, time is good for managing mold temp. but all things considered, if you cut the sprue and the bottom of the boolits wipe across the mold blocks or look like they haven't solidified, your mold is too hot. if the are solidified and ready to drop, then get after it.

[unique]

Watch as others say but sometimes the spruce can appear to solidify quickly but internally the spruce is still not quite solid so you can end up with smearing.

What I sometimes do is give the spruce a little tap with my wooden handle and note how solid it is. I judge the dent produced to tell me how solid the spruce is. This works very well.

Also, I use pencil to cover areas prone to smearing. Oil works well but I somehow always manage to get some inside the mould which takes time to burn out.

[Larry Gibson]

"Cutting the spuce"

This time of year I don't want one over 7' tall so a small pruning saw works fine. Larger ones I use a chainsaw..........[smilie=l:

Merry Christmas...........:drinks:

[Walter Laich]

after awhile you will have the timing down and not have to worry about it--it will have become muscle memory

[RCE1]

I have been touching the spruce to a dampened sponge for a second, once the lead has gone matte. This is something new for me, but last casting session, I went through a whole load of lead in the RCBS bottom pour and got essentially zero smearing. I was using an RCBS two cavity 429-240 SIL.

[runfiverun]

I use a count.
there is a clock on the wall behind my casting pot.
tick,tick,tick,tick.

I normally average @3-4 pours a minute.
2-3 ticks to fill, 5-7 ticks before opening, 2 ticks to put the sprue in the pot, 2 ticks to dump the bullets.
heat gain and heat loss is maintained through time, any faster and the mold gets too hot, any slower and I lose too much heat.
I pay attention to the ticks and take what the mold gives me.

[dragon813gt]

1,209,600.....we typically cut a blue spruce down two weeks before Christmas [emoji319]

[Victor N TN]

learn to watch the puddle. don't worry about time in seconds and such, watch the puddle, when it changes state and exterior appearance you should be ready, time is good for managing mold temp. but all things considered, if you cut the sprue and the bottom of the boolits wipe across the mold blocks or look like they haven't solidified, your mold is too hot. if the are solidified and ready to drop, then get after it.

What this guy said. Time today may not be the same time next week. 6 to 8 seconds may not work if the pot or mold is too hot.

[Handloader109]

Absolutely watch the puddle and I totally agree if you can't cut sprue with your gloved hand, you waited too long. I only hit plate for first few pours when it is not entirely up to temperature. Watch when it is hard enough it does go flat/darker.

[Ateam]

Interesting thread, I have always tapped my molds open with a chunk of wood, just the way I was taught. Is this wrong? Sorry for the hijack.

[whisler]

Not wrong, it is just easier not to have to juggle a stick to open the sprue plate.

[JSnover]

Interesting thread, I have always tapped my molds open with a chunk of wood, just the way I was taught. Is this wrong? Sorry for the hijack.

I won't say it's wrong because so many people have done it for so long but I gave it up a while ago. The sprue plate needs to fit properly and only has one screw holding it on. Whacking it open seemed rather abusive to me.

[dragon813gt]

Interesting thread, I have always tapped my molds open with a chunk of wood, just the way I was taught. Is this wrong? Sorry for the hijack.
When the mold is up to temp you should be able to open the sprue plate by hand. This speeds up the entire casting process and is easier on the mold. Ergonomically it's better as well but I don't expect most casters to care about that or economy of motion.

[mehavey]

When using a hard[er] alloy like #2, cutting the sprue on the first few bullets may take a tap from the rawhide mallet. After the first few, however, the sprue plate is hot enough* and allows the heel of the [gloved] hand to be best used to gauge the condition/break the sprue.

NOTE AGAIN: "breaking" the sprue is just that -- break it just slightly, then tap the handle hinge to drop that sprue off the mold... then open the sprue plate fully and drop the bullet.

Rarely -- if ever -- will you smear liquid lead on the mold with that technique.




* even w/ hotplate pre-heating, the sprue plate needs a few casts to stabilize at casting temp

[unique]

Wow, using gloved hand to open a mould...never did that. I can't imagine it works very well on a four banger mould?

Maybe we need a poll of gloved hands vs wooden mallet?

[dragon813gt]

Wow, using gloved hand to open a mould...never did that. I can't imagine it works very well on a four banger mould?

Maybe we need a poll of gloved hands vs wooden mallet?

It works fine on four, six and eight cavity molds. I'm not a fan of the Lee cam lever. Mihec uses them w/ his six cavity and up molds. They open just fine w/ a hand, w/out the lever, when everything is up to temp.

As for the poll. Go read the glove or no glove thread thread. You will find most people saying they use a glove both for safety and because it's how they open the mold.

[Ateam]

I agree, probably need a poll.

I think I have been waiting too long to open my molds, as it usually takes three or so whacks of the mallet. They are not aggressive whacks, but I can see how this would get an aluminum mold with a steel screw out of wack eventually.

[Wayne Smith]

I agree, probably need a poll.

I think I have been waiting too long to open my molds, as it usually takes three or so whacks of the mallet. They are not aggressive whacks, but I can see how this would get an aluminum mold with a steel screw out of wack eventually.

Don't worry about a poll, just wait for the sprue to harden, count to three, cut. If your mold is up to temp you can do it with your gloved hand.

[JSnover]

Wow, using gloved hand to open a mould...never did that. I can't imagine it works very well on a four banger mould?
If anything I think a mallet on a four or six cav might be an even worse idea. Again, the sprue plate is attached by only one screw and since the plate is longer on these, it would seem easier to bend the screw or the plate by smacking it around because it gives you an even greater mechanical advantage over that poor little screw way out on the end of the block.
just my $.02

[unique]

Well I wonder if the glove thing would work on 4 cav saeco mould which is pinned in the middle so has less leverage. I will give it try next time but can't fathom how I would get a mould open without a mallet or a very sore hand. Do you hit or push with the palm of your hand?

For me I need to open my mould with a mallet using 2-3 taps to break the spruce, then turn upside down and tap to knock spruce off and then flip back over and tap as I open to allow bullets to fall free. If I used my hand for all that I think after an hour I would give up casting for good.

[JSnover]

If your method works and your molds are healthy, keep at it. As long as you're not winding up with a Louisville Slugger to cut the sprue you're ok.
On my 1 and 2 cavity molds a bump with heel of my hand works. For my Lee 6 banger it takes two hands and a fair effort plus a little practice; a tight enough grip on the mold handles with one hand (but not too much, I'm not crushing walnuts) and a sort of calculated yank on the sprue plate handle.

[RCE1]

I have one of those moulds (Saeco 4 cavity) and open it with a gloved hand. No problem.

[Hickory]

I ladle pour. When the sprue solidifies I blow on it for a second and then cut it. It seems to give a clean cut without the jagged void where the sprue hole is.
But, this is just the way I do it. I'm not suggesting anyone do it this way.

[robg]

I use 2 or 3 molds .by the time the last is filled the first is ready to cut the sprue and drop the boolits.

[Duckiller]

Let the sprue get hard and its top flat then tap with the butt of a hammer handle. I f you smear wait just a bit longer. I have cut sprues with a gloved hand but the book I read said whack with the butt end of a hammer handle, so I do. Current handle was purchased from HOME DEPOT 15-20 years ago. It is starting to show some wear and tear but will probably last the rest of my life.

[gunseller]

I used an old wooden hammer handle for many years but always thought it could be hard on mold. That is how I was told to do it. About 20 years ago I went to an insulated leather glove and never looked back. Watch the lead mix turn from liquid to solid and open when it feels right. If opens hard I took too much time opening. I cast out side so time of year makes a difference on how long before opening mold. It is like anything you do timing is everything and you just have to spend time doing it to get it right for you.
Steve

[44Blam]

I like watching the liquid turn to solid, it kinda glazes over.
Then I noticed that it takes a little longer as the mold warms up, so I wait for it to glaze and give it a second or so. :) But I wack it politely with a 1x2 that is about 12" long.

[marek313]

Hard question to answer because it varies from one mold to another. Cavity size and number of cavities in your mold affect sprue cutting time. Large cavity mold might even need to be cooled on a wet sponge to bring temp down where small cavities only take a second and are ready to be cut. Its one of those things that just takes couple tries and you'll find a sweet spot to make great bullets.

[WFO2]

I had to learn when to cut the spruce as well . This is my third year casting and the pro's here are telling you straight . Watch the lead puddle on top when it gets solid it changes color slightly . Couple of seconds after that it is ready to cut . As soon as I feel the the spruce plate drag I hit it with some lube . I keep a Q-tip with lube on it on the bench when I'm casting . I re-lube it with lead in the mold right after I cut the spruce ,

[Gundogblue]

Thanks for the info, I’ve been useing a small mallet with a plastic side and a rubber side, I’ve been lightly tapping the spruce plate with the plastic side of the mallet, and if the boolits don’t fall right out, I’ve been lightly tapping the mould handles with the rubber side.ihave a pair of heavy leather gloves so I’m gonna try useing my hand. I guess it takes more than a few sessions to get back into casting, plus I’m learning a lot here that I never knew.
Thanks,
Paul

[mehavey]

https://s9.postimg.org/7qmxhtmxb/spruce.jpg
(and God bless us every one.... :drinks: )