looking for 38 special autoloader

[Bmi48219]

I have lots of components to reload 38 special & 357 magnum. Only autoloaders I can think of for 38 special are S&W 52 and the Coonan classic with the lighter recoil spring installed.
I understand the 52 was at the top of the list for competitive shooting for a long time. Always wanted one. On the con side: probably difficult to get parts for since it's been out of production for a while, can't shoot 357 mag and I tend to be more accurate shooting 1911 style pistols.
According to the manufacturer the Coonan will shoot 38 special after you change the recoil spring, they now supply the 38 spring with the pistol. Plus I'd like to own a 357 auto. Con: I don't see shooting a 38 special in a long 357 chamber is going to be real accurate, but I've shot 38 through 357 revolvers with great accuracy results.
Both pistols are relatively close in cost. Ideally a spare Coonan barrel chambered for 38 special would make the decision easier.
Any Coonan owners care to share their experiences?

[Outpost75]

No experience with the Coonan, but there were also Colt Gold Cup .38s and various conversions of the .38 Super Automatic to use .38 Special wadcutters, some which were locked breech and others being blowback. A locked breech .38 Super converted to .38 Special was the most accurate bullseye pistol I ever shot until I tried a Hammerli 240 in .38 Special. A good .38 wadcutter gun will out-shoot all but the very best PPC revolvers, under 2-inch, ten-shot fifty yard groups from a Ransom Rest.

[Walkingwolf]

A 357 sig should shoot wadcutters with no problem, and feed reliably. Sig makes a 357 1911 model, only modification would be lighter spring. Cannot shoot hbwc with a tapered case though, all loads would have to be a dewc.

[ReloaderFred]

The 357 Sig round has a very short neck, so it may not be suited to wadcutter loading. Even a lot of the 9x19 bullets won't work in that case, due to the ogive of the bullet being inside the neck when seated to the proper OAL. Both of my 357 Sig pistols are temperamental about the bullets they will chamber.

The .38 Super option Outpost75 mentions may be a better choice, since the .38 Super case is straight walled, and long enough to accommodate a wadcutter bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[country gent]

Clark and maybe Wilson will still build a 1911 in 38 spl. But its a wadcutter gun only. Anything longer wont fit in the magazine on the 1911. The AMU built some in 38 spl that were lock up guns and very accurate and consistant shooters. Colt made both blow back and lock up guns. Ive heard the blow backs had a issue with the occasional fliers, The lock up didn't. The blow back used the 16 lb recoil spring the lock ups a 6-7 lb spring.
Mine is built up with a barsto barrel 6" length. Hand fitted together and shoots 10 shot groups into a 50 cent piece at 25 yds with its load of 2.7 grns bullseye and a hornady swaged HBWC and a medium taper crimp.
The pistol is a ball to shoot as recoil is negligible ( less than some 22s and 32s) due to low power and weight of pistol.

[Walkingwolf]

The 357 Sig round has a very short neck, so it may not be suited to wadcutter loading. Even a lot of the 9x19 bullets won't work in that case, due to the ogive of the bullet being inside the neck when seated to the proper OAL. Both of my 357 Sig pistols are temperamental about the bullets they will chamber.

The .38 Super option Outpost75 mentions may be a better choice, since the .38 Super case is straight walled, and long enough to accommodate a wadcutter bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

I have seated wadcutters below the neck in a 32-20 operating at higher pressure than target ammo, 1100 fps with no case damage of the thin walls on the 32-20 case. No matter how much the bullet is below the neck the same physics is present, high pressure versus low pressure. On a stout case as the sig, at low pressures it would not be a problem, not in the least. I believe there is a thread on this forum where it has already been done. The only two problems I can see is using HBWC where they would flare like a rivet in the case, or the accuracy would not be the same as a fast twist barrel designed for low velocity wadcutter round.

Personally for the money of finding a model 52 a custom match built 1911 can be bought that will match the performance of the 52. Wadcutters were designed for scoring, not for their ability to cut through the atmosphere. I used to shoot 38 auto with spire bullets with a Star pistol in the 80's, one hole accuracy from a rest at 25 yards. This was a Spanish gun with NOTHING done to it, other than maintenance. My model 625 PC will shoot one inch groups at 25 yards, I would suspect the 8 shot model 627 PC will do the same with 38 special wadcutters, though it will weight more than the 52.

It is all a matter of how much a person wants to spend, I imagine that 52's are out there for a premium price. But IMO some of the custom built 1911's are going to be in the same ballpark price range, and perform just as well. To keep it under 1500 dollars for a 38 wadcutter there is only a few choices to get that kind of performance, a target 357 sig model, or a 8 shot 625.

The only thing I see the 38 spl wadcutter doing, that the 45 acp SWC can't is price. But then if a person can afford a classic model 52 the can afford the slightly higher price of reloading 45 acp compared to reloading 38 spl.

[Bmi48219]

Guys, thanks for all the input. I guess in retrospect I should have asked if anyone was shooting a Coonan and how does it perform using .38 special ammo. While it's a great round the 357 Sig isn't an option for me. Brass is too scarce, I get all the range pickup I want but in 2+ years have collected <200 of the 357 Sig casings (& around 50 pcs 38 Super) On the other hand I have scads of 38 spec & 357 magnum cases. I'm leaning toward the Coonan so I can use both cartridges. I'd actually like to own a 52 and a Coonan but can only afford one, which also rules out a custom built 1911 in 38 special. Sounds like if I want to shoot both 38 & 357 from the same autoloader the Coonan is the only option.
Thanks again, I'm going to post a request for Coonan operators experience next.

[tazman]

With 38 special autoloaders being so expensive and picky, I am going with a 9mm 1911, in particular, a Springfield Range Officer.
This pistol shoots as accurately as anything does, at least in my hands, and has the ability to feed a number of different bullet/boolit styles.
If you want lighter loads, lighter recoil springs are readily available to accommodate.

[shtur]

The S&W 52 is expensive, but once you tire of it, you'll get your money back and then some. The Colt .38 special on the 1911 platform was not as acurate as the S&W 52. The Colt was dropped(low sales), the 52 kept going for decades. The Colt is sought after by collectors that don't shoot, the 52 is sought after by both collectors and shooters.

[Walkingwolf]

With 38 special autoloaders being so expensive and picky, I am going with a 9mm 1911, in particular, a Springfield Range Officer.
This pistol shoots as accurately as anything does, at least in my hands, and has the ability to feed a number of different bullet/boolit styles.
If you want lighter loads, lighter recoil springs are readily available to accommodate.

I don't compete, and my guns are more than accurate enough. But for a semi auto production I would probably go with the CZ Shadow, or the Witness Xtreme.

[dverna]

Scan Gunbroker for a Clark. I had one and like a fool sold it. Magazines are very expensive but I believe Clark still supplies them.

It will put 50 rounds into 2.5” at 50 yards using a Ransom rest. That kind of accuracy was achieved with the Remington 148 HBWC. Cast was slightly larger.

Stay away from the Gold Cup. They never shot that well

[Walkingwolf]

Rowlins claim their 9mm barrel kits will give 1/2 inch at 25 yard accuracy, I believe they are a 1-14 twist. I am sure with a tight 1911 that will match the accuracy of a model 52 using chub(slow heavy) loads. Ya can't go to any range without tripping over 9mm brass.

[Dpmsman]

I have a coonan but do not have a lot of experience with 38spl in it. In the manual coonan suggest at least 200 rounds of 357 mag fired before attempting 38spl.

[gwpercle]

Clark Custom Guns is still in business , check their website , they just might build one for you.
That would be awesome to have a Clark Built and it would be set up for 38 special and it would be accurate !

I can tell you for sure they do bullseye 1911's in the other standard semi auto calibers .
Jim Clark started that business building competition pistols and the 38 special 1911 was the best .
Gary

[Bmi48219]

Dpmsman, care to give your opinion of the Coonan so far? How long have you had it? Likes, dislikes?

[saleen322]

The S&W 52 is expensive, but once you tire of it, you'll get your money back and then some. The Colt .38 special on the 1911 platform was not as acurate as the S&W 52. The Colt was dropped(low sales), the 52 kept going for decades. The Colt is sought after by collectors that don't shoot, the 52 is sought after by both collectors and shooters.

shtur is exactly right. I had a Colt 38 Mid-Range as they were called. It shot okay but it would not match the 52 for accuracy. I still have the 52 and they are about the finest production pistols Smith made. Everything is well fitted, fantastic sights, about the best trigger Smith has, and they are "lights out" accurate. A good, stock 52 was bringing around $900 locally last I checked. You can shoot it for years and most likely make money if you decide to sell it. The only negatives some people sight are you are limited to wadcutters only--nothing else will fit the magazine and they are the most unforgiving things if you jerk the pistol during the shot. A 1911 would still be in the 7-8 ring but you are looking at a 5-6 with a 52. Hope this helps.

[lotech]

A 52 is the only wadcutter .38 auto I've had any experience with. Very accurate. It took a while to get crimp and OAL just right, but since then, functioning has been flawless.

[Dpmsman]

Well I have the Classic brushed stainless version not the older model B. I have had it for 5-6 years. So far it has been 100 percent reliable with all 357 mag ammo I have fed it. I tried 38spl once but it would not cycle most likely because it wasn't fully broke in yet. Honestly I haven't shot it a ton it tends to shift a lot in my small to medium size hands and can be a little hard to control with full house 357 loads. There's a lot of play between the slide and frame. When I asked Coonan about the slide to frame fitment they said that is the way it's designed. Supposedly if it was tight the frame could crack from the torque of the 357 Magnum cartridge. That being said it is not what I would call a Target gun at least not in my hands. This could be because of the length of pull and my smaller hands. The gun itself is basically the same size as a 1911 45 except for the grip/magazine frame housing which is elongated to fit the longer 357 Magnum cartridge. Other than the slide to frame fit everything else is very well fitted and put together.

[country gent]

If you really want different. Clark built some 1911s in 32 S&W long as wad cutter only guns also. Ive seen one barrel for 1911 32 caliber and no magazines. That would really be light recoil there. Might be a project when I get the shop up and going sleeve a 1911 barrel to 32 caliber and fit it to a slide for my wad cutter gun. Might be an interesting project.

[Walkingwolf]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/12/exclusive-testing-worlds-accurate-pistols-part/

I found this article on bullseye accurate 9mm semi autos, supposedly the best.

[Cougar Hunter]

My shooting buddy has a Coonan. Fit and finish is quite good but thats something I would expect from such an expensive pistol ($2700 up here). His has the Novak 3 dot adjustable sights. I've handled and shot it. It digests factory 357 with ease. It's very heavy and the grip frame is bigger than a standard 1911. Shooting .38's is another story. It will cycle factory +P with the lighter recoil spring, but anything else is no joy. I found that the accuracy is decent but not bullseye quality. Not many options for a 357 autoloader. Your money, but I would pass and look for a Clark or spring the bucks for a Model 52.

[Walkingwolf]

A lot of this depends on whether is going to compete, or just wants a gun that will shoot wadcutters. If he wants to compete it is going to be expensive, even for production competitive 9mm. Most probably over $1000. Coonan is going to cost over a grand, so probably will a model 52.

[Bmi48219]

Walkingwolf, first the article was an eye opener, thanks. Beyond that, as stated earlier, my primary goal is to find a use for the 38 special AND 357 mag components that continue to multiply in my reloading storage cabinet. I now realize any autoloader made for 38 special will be wadcutter-only.
That won't help much as my goal is to also use 357 mag, hence my interest in the Coonan, since the manufacturer claims it will readily shoot 38 special by changing to the provided lighter recoil spring. I actually got the opportunity to run 5 rounds of factory 357 ammo through a Coonan Sunday evening. After 2 embarrassing flyers I managed to put 3 into a one inch group at 25 feet. Not great shooting for some but pretty good, given my abilities. Those same 5 rounds further convinced me I wouldn't be burning up a great deal of 357 ammo weekly, were I to become a Coonan owner. I have to reevaluate my goals as it seems finding a pistol that will shoot 38 & 357 may be like finding bowling shoes that I can also use for formal occasions.