30 Carbine Ruger BH

[whelenshooter]

Used to have an m1 carbine and have lots of ammo and reloading supplies left for it. I like Blackhawks, so long story short ordered one of these to consume the fodder and it's on its way I have read lots of posts here and other places that talk about the failure to fire because of the case being shoved forward by the hammer/firing pin.

The 30 carbine case headspaces on the mouth. I know the crimp and trim length have to be right. But that's true in semi-autos too, so is the moving forward due to there being no extractor holding the case or is it the force of the bh's hammer/firing pin or ruger's chamber or something else?

Thanks
David

[Outpost75]

Since the 30 Carbine headspaces on the case mouth, case length is critical.

Cases which are too short fail to give reliable ignition in the Ruger revolver, because the hammer blow simply drives cases more deeply into the chambers. If cases are too long, their heads bind against the recoil shield and impair cylinder rotation.

In the US carbine long cases may prevent rounds from chambering completely, causing failure of the bolt to lock.

When fired in the typical M1 Carbine cases stretch upon firing. They elongate even further when full-length resized. Once-fired GI brass may indeed need trimming after FL sizing. Failure to pay attention to case length causes problems in both carbine and revolver!

Ignition problems in the Ruger and functioning ones in the carbine are avoided by measuring cases. Pay careful attention to eliminate any brass shorter than 1.28,” and trim those longer than 1.285” which causes excessive mouth crimp. New Starline brass is held within 1.280- 1.285 inches and I recommend that you do likewise with yours! If your .30 carbine brass is uniform, and of correct near-maximum length, there should be no functional issues in either carbine or revolver.

Dies for the .30 Carbine use a taper crimp, NOT a roll crimp, which affects headspace of the case mouth against the stop surface of the chamber. Case length should be checked EVERY time cases are sized. I recommend the Lee Quik Trim die, which uniformly trues brass to 1.280+0.005/-0.000 after sizing.

I can no longer recommend the simple Lee case gage, trimmer and lock stud, because the locating pin is now machined integral to the length gage, rather than being a press-fitted, hardened pin as it used to be. When run under power in a drill press, as many of us used to do, the pin end wears now, so that consistent length cannot be maintained. After trimming as few as 100 cases the integral pin of the length gage snaps off.

Carbide sizing dies eliminate the need for case lube. Any residual oil or grease not removed causes cases to set back upon firing and bind against the revolver recoil shield. Chambers of the Ruger revolver absolutely must be kept free of oil.

Cylinder throats of some Ruger .30 Carbine revolvers may be found as tight as .307-.308” diameter.

Cast bullet diameter is limited by chamber and brass dimensions to no more than .310” when using .30 Carbine brass. Some users hone cylinder throats to .3115-.3120,” which enables using the same bullets as for the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal. This requires use of Starline .32-20 brass, which is thinner walled than .30 Carbine cases, which provides adequate neck release clearance for the larger bullet diameter. The New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine cylinder does not have recessed case heads as did earlier guns. There is adequate head clearance for Starline .32-20 brass and this adaptation works very well for those users.

I use the same powder charges and bullets in the 7.62x25 Tokarev and also in the .30 Carbine Ruger. 7.4 grains of Olin Auto Comp functions the M1 carbine reliably, gives excellent accuracy, and drops empty brass fired from the carbine at your feet. AutoComp cast loads with Accurate 31-100T fired from the revolver approach factory jacketed velocity, whereas firing them in the carbine approximates .32-20 Winchester ’92 levels, about 1700 fps.

.30 Caliber Carbine Ammunition In Revolver and Rifle

Ammunition__________Ruger 7-1/2”_________US M1 Carbine 18”

LC44 Ball M1__________1586 fps , 20 Sd, 46 ES__1981 fps, 20 Sd, 56 ES
Norma 110-gr. SP______1490, 35, 96__________1960, 18, 59
Federal 110-gr. SP______1414, 22, 54_________1959, 16, 56

Accurate 31-100T
7.8 grs. AutoComp_____1527, 11, 29__________1692, 16, 54 Most accurate REVOLVER load
14.0 grs. IMR4227_____1524, 12, 35__________1858, 13, 33
14.0 grs. IMR4198_____1178. 52, 125_________1526, 30, 108

209965209980

[starnbar]

To add a little to the above remember new factory cases are not always to correct length check them too another 30 carbine ruger shooter.

[ReloaderFred]

The manufacturers of Carbide sizing dies for the .30 Carbine all recommend case lube when sizing, and I've found it necessary when using mine. The steel sizing dies do just as well in this caliber, and even though I have both, I normally use the steel sizing die, since it's more true to the original size of the case.

My .30 Carbine caliber Blackhawk suffers from hard ejection, even with .32-20 level loads. I'm going to polish the chambers and see if that fixes the problem.

And yes, the .30 Carbine case is notorious for case stretching. I check every case after sizing, and most require at least a little trimming.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[DougGuy]

One other thing not mentioned, if the boolit is a bit tight in the cylinder throat it may not seat all the way to the case mouth, and then when the hammer strikes the firing pin, it pushes the case further into the cylinder instead of igniting the primer.

[Thumbcocker]

I have a /30 carbine Blackhawk. Once you figure out the quirks they are fun and scary accurate. .32 mag. boolits sized to .310 after being lubed (keeps the groove from collapsing) shoot very well as does the Lee soupcan. Mine likes 2400. Good luck.

[Outpost75]

One other thing not mentioned, if the boolit is a bit tight in the cylinder throat it may not seat all the way to the case mouth, and then when the hammer strikes the firing pin, it pushes the case further into the cylinder instead of igniting the primer.

That is the reason for the note on the Accurate 31-100T bullet "front band tolerance negative"

[stubshaft]

I have one and it is a blast to shoot. Very accurate, low/no recoil and relatively flat shooting.

[Bmi48219]

I also have a carbine (Inland 1943), and thousands of round of LC. Saw a Ruger .30 and bought it for $300.00 seven years ago. Accurate as all get out. Then saw an AMT Automag III in 30 carbine. Bought that too. Sold the Ruger, kinda regret that but the AMT makes it easier to forget. Deadly accurate too. I run 13.8 gr 4227 for all my .30 carbine loads. Cycles well & doesn't beat up either firearm.
I check case length every time I size. On average 10 to 14% of cases have to be trimmed.
Don't much care to trim brass but it's worth it.
From what I've heard carbide dies don't restore the correct taper because they have a short carbide ring that can't possibly match the true taper of the case. I use a steel die to size and don't get a bulge near the base of brass. I shoot my carbine 4 times a year, the AMT every week.

[RJM52]

Great information guys...thanks!!

I have an OM that I love to shoot... Only handloads so far have been with H110 and either a Hornady 90 grain XTP .309 HP or an Accurate 31-120S sized to .309. Velocity is right around 1500 fps and accuracy is excellent.

Have not had any of the above mentioned problems with ignition as most of my brass is once fired. Will start checking the case LOA the next batch....

Bob

..just remembered I also have a 10" octagon barrel for my TC Contender...has only been shot once however...

[osteodoc08]

Plus and muffs. Plugs and muffs.

[bob208]

I have a old model Blackhawk had it for 40 years when I first got it I shot a lot of mill surplus I it because it was cheap. then I loaded the lyman bullet for the .32-20 and the hornady .30 plinkers. never had a problem with it going off.

but as stated you will need hearing protection. a full bore .357 is a ***** cat compared the a .30 carbine in a hand gun.

[T-Bird]

+1 on the hearing protection for 30 carbine. Mine is my loudest pistol by a lot.

[Leadmelter]

Hearing protection +2, even with my TC Contender.
Leadmelter
MI

[Uncle Grinch]

I’ve wanted a 30 Carbine BH ever since shooting one that a club member had at the range. He also had the AMT version and it was a beast. The grips were a little too wide (front to back) for me. Both were EXTREMELY loud, even with plugs and muffs.... but I loved it!

Wish I could find one at the right price.

[9.3X62AL]

I have had 3 of these 30 U.S. Carbine Blackhawks grace my gun safe shelves over the years. None of the three were balky or tricky about having ammo work in them--factory, milsurp, or handloads. These revolvers have been unalloyed FUN.

The most recent model, from about early 2013, is about as perfect dimensionally as a shooter could ask for from a maker. Barrel slugs and pins at .3080" x .3000", as closely as my marginal tools and skill set can determine. Throats are all right at .3085". The revolver is ACCURATE.

[whelenshooter]

Haven't been on much lately. Christmas was busy. Thanks for the replies and information, great stuff.

David

[thegatman]

Plus and muffs. Plugs and muffs.

Very loud. Sold mine.

[9.3X62AL]

Very loud. Sold mine.

Yes, sir--louder than Hell's drum line, and can set off earthquakes in fault zones. It might trigger avalanches, too--though few areas near me cultivate the snow depths required to breed such events. In real life, the only hazard I have encountered due to 30 Carbine Blackhawk shooting had more to do with beeswax in bullet lube than report volume--some of those "Africanized" honey bees out near Chiriaco Summit were NOT impressed with my use of Javelina BW/Alox bullet lube on Lee Soup Can castings a couple years ago. They successfully evicted me quickly from a favorite shooting site of mine.

[Ickisrulz]

Too loud? Slow the bullet down a little. It doesn't have to be loaded to rifle velocities.

[9.3X62AL]

Too loud? Slow the bullet down a little. It doesn't have to be loaded to rifle velocities.

Right with ya, Ick. The 30 Carbine BH--32 H&R Mag--and 327 Federal start getting obnoxious somewhere between 900 and 1000 FPS. Heck, the 32/20 revolvers can be raspy above 900 FPS as well. There is still great joy derived from turning money into noise, though--and the 30 Carbine excels at that particular tasking.

Key to the city.......95-100 grain castings run at 900-950 FPS. Very docile, VERY accurate, and so effective on small varmints and game animals without tearing up much good meat. Like an uber-effective 22 LR.

[TCLouis]

Yes, in my experience they are loud and one should avoid flammables for several feet in front of the muzzle.
Biggest/longest fireball I have ever seen out of anything hand or shoulder fired.

[ReloaderFred]

The only handgun I have that throws a longer flame is the 9x25 Dillon. Both are quite impressive when shooting in dim light.........

[9.3X62AL]

Now, THAT I have yet to do with the 30 Carbine BH--shoot it in dim lighting. Ball powder/110 JHPs/full-value loadings at dusk just got added to the "TO DO" List.

[Ramjet-SS]

wow I read this thread with interest and because of the great detailed posts here I have
title interest in having this caliber seems like an awful amount of effort to go shooting!!!!

[9.3X62AL]

wow I read this thread with interest and because of the great detailed posts here I have
title interest in having this caliber seems like an awful amount of effort to go shooting!!!!

The three 30 Carbine BHs I have owned have all digested ammo of all types readily and without issues.

[fcvan]

Dad bought a Bicentennial 30M1C (roll stamped on the barrel) to go with a Winchester 30M1C his dad gave him. Dad lets me shoot/keep the BH, but only lets me touch/wipe down/promptly hand back when ever I go visit. He is pretty funny about it.

No matter what kind of load you shoot, pistol or rifle loads, that thing BARKS. I once read when there are obnoxious people on the firing line break out the BH. They will leave shortly after a few cylinders full launched downrange. I always use plugs and muffs and will that said it is still not enough for the 30BH.

Loads I've used are right out of the Lyman book. Mold is an old SAECO 321 95gr RN plain based. Although it is technically a 32 mold it casts a bit small if you adjust your mold temp/cadence, and use a harder alloy. It didn't take long to find the 'swwet spot.' Dad bought that mold in the mid 1970s back when Carpenteria CA was just down the road. Dad never used that mold because the half jacket plinker bullets were so cheap. When I broke out the mold it was brand new. I have a few SAECO molds and they are top shelf. Anyway, after casting I tumble powder coat and bake. Shooting PC Boolits at factory loading, even though it is a plain base design is not a problem in either my brother's carbine or Dad's 30BH. I gave up on pistol only loads, they were still obnoxiously loud. Besides, it is only shot occassionly.

Nice to see you Al, I retired again (went back to finish my 30, well and to catch about 4 raises) but this time for good! Frank

[Ickisrulz]

No matter what kind of load you shoot, pistol or rifle loads, that thing BARKS.

A Lyman 311008 traveling at 1150 fps seems much quieter than a 357 to my ears.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByFireArm/Cast%20in%20the%20.30%20Carbine%20Pistol.pdf

[Green Frog]

OK guys, forgive me if I'm threadjacking here, but I've heard discussion over the years about how cool the BH 30 Carbine chambering was because with little or no alteration it could also be used with 32-20. With hat in hand I'm asking those of you with lots of experience with the 30 C BH whether this actually works or whether I've been the victim of yet another internet myth. I had the Buckeye Special 32 combo BH when it came out, but in my normal manner, I let it get away from me before I fully recognized what I had, hence this query.

TIA for any responses!
Froggie

[Nueces]

GF, there have been many credible reports of use of 32-20 brass in Ruger 30 Carbines, but only the new models. The old model 3-screws, like mine, have "embedded case rims" and cannot accommodate the 32-20 rim.

[Outpost75]

Starline .32-20 brass is 1.280;1.285" lengths and works fine inmy NM BH .30 Carbine.
Other makes of .32-20 brass is longer and must be trimmex.

[9.3X62AL]

I tried 20 pieces of my existing Starline 32/20 brass in the 30 Carbine BH. I ran it into a 30 Carbine F/L steel size die first, just from an abundance of caution--I am uncertain that it made a difference. I have run both jacketed and cast bullets (sized .308" and .309" respectively), and it has fired just fine.

Of course, the regular rimless 30 Carbine brass & ammo runs well also. I didn't want to dig too deeply into the 32/20 brass stocks for this little experiment, having just 1 x 30 Carbine BH and 4 x 32/20 WCF firearms to feed. The SL 32/20 that got modded for this try-out was returned to 32/20 form in the proper steel sizer die, and it fit fine in the 32/20 revolvers after all of these gymnastics.

[Thumbcocker]

I did the .32-20 thing but with a little tweaking and getting the crimp right .30 carbine brass was just as easy to load so I didn't need the .32-20 brass.

[Thin Man]

Many years ago (about 45 of them) I owned a Marlin model 62 lever action in 30 Carbine. It was a fun little rifle and surplus ammo was readily available. I bought a RCBS die set and started handloading for the rifle. Ran into a problem getting once-fired brass to go into the chamber. It refused! Empty sized brass or reloaded brass, they would not go into the chamber. I had the sizing die in full contact with the shell holder, but that was not enough. New ammo or brass was OK, fired was not. At that time those rifles were in general circulation, so I sold mine with the comfort it was replaceable. It would be a fun combination now, but I'm not really burning to have another one. If I still had the Marlin 62 now I would dig deeper into it's nature and find the cause of the issue.

[Green Frog]

Thanks to Nueces, Outpost75, 9.3X62AL and Thumbcocker. I'm guessing the little plinker bullet I used to see sold for the 30 Carbine, a 110 grain half jacketed one, would work pretty well in this application, as well as my old Favorite Ideal 3118 (115 gr) and 311316 (115 gc) sized properly for this application. Thanks a lot guys, I'm beginning to see a BH 30 Carbine in my future... like I need another "mouth to feed!" ;-)

Froggie

[farky]

I also have an old model Blackhawk .30 Carbine. When I first got it I had my gunsmith cut the barrel off behind the front sight and re-attatch it. It's about 6-1/4" now. This is crazy but true. I have an old junky left handed holster that is my favorite. The rule is that all my single actions have to fit in that holster. Nothing over 6.5". HeHe. And yes, it is just a tad noisy when it goes off.

[Texas by God]

I want one and always have. Maybe someday!