I think i messed up (new guy)

[uncoolperson]

So I finally talked the wife into letting me pick up some reloading stuff (not yet casting stuff... in time). And I have very little idea of what i needed, so i made a guess (and have already noticed few things i needed to get but didn't).

I have a .32 special, and believed the midway site when i ordered these (wanted the cast to keep the barrel nicer... or atleast give it another 50 years)
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=815124&t=11082005

Will these work, i just noticed the dia is .324 and all the other .32 special stuff is .321?
(wait, further down it says the diameter is .321)


on the hunter's supply site (http://www.hunters-supply.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=48b605f6fc840b5a72499f059afc4fe1)
they replicate part numbers between .32 special and the 8mm


Thanks.

any other good advice for someone new at this (i will read the manual before i put powder to copper and lead)?

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Have you slugged your Barrel? You want the bullet to be .001 over the size of the Barrel. Nwxt question is what size is the chamber.

Sam :-)

[uncoolperson]

nope... guess i'll have to look into how to do that.

[6pt-sika]

I have three 32 Specials and a 32-40 . All my cast bullets are run thru a .323" sizer !

I didn't bother to slug the barrel and they all shoot very well ! Granted I do not use a hard alloy ! As I shoot straight WW's .

[uncoolperson]

WW's?

[6pt-sika]

WW's?

wheel weights

[uncoolperson]

wheel weights

Thanks, i apologize now, I'm still figure all this stuff out.



just threw the micrometer at the bullets, reading bout .324

So, the hard alloy... probably not good when .003 bigger than "normal" through my winny?

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Slugging a barrel is done by taking a fairly soft piece of lead, such as a fishing weights. The ones that come to a point work well, Cut of the loop to tie them to the line. And push it down through the barrel till it comes out the action with a dowel or some such then measure the lands and grooves. You want the bullet to fill the barel to get the best accuracy.

Sam :D

[uncoolperson]

Slugging a barrel is done by taking a fairly soft piece of lead, such as a fishing weights. The ones that come to a point work well, Cut of the loop to tie them to the line. And push it down through the barrel till it comes out the action with a dowel or some such then measure the lands and grooves. You want the bullet to fill the barel to get the best accuracy.

Sam :D

Thanks, i'll try to hit the fishin shop tomorrow and report back (if you don't mind me asking more questions).

micrometer down the end of the barrel (nice and gentle like) reads .318 at the widest.

[454PB]

I'm guessing here that you used a dial caliper to measure your bore, because there is no way I know of to use a micrometer to do that. While a dial caliper can be surprisingly accurate in experienced hands for measuring I.D., it's pretty inaccurate for the novice. Slugging the barrel is the accurate way to get a measurement. You don't have to drive the slug completely through the barrel, drive one in the muzzle an inch or two, then drive it out from the breach and measure. Do another in the throat/chamber end the same way. The two should be within .001" of each other. You want a cast boolit of .001" over bore diameter MINIMUM. Notice in the links you posted that they sell cast boolits of .311" for 30 caliber, which is .003" larger than a jacketed bullet for same.

[uncoolperson]

I'm guessing here that you used a dial caliper to measure your bore, because there is no way I know of to use a micrometer to do that. While a dial caliper can be surprisingly accurate in experienced hands for measuring I.D., it's pretty inaccurate for the novice. Slugging the barrel is the accurate way to get a measurement. You don't have to drive the slug completely through the barrel, drive one in the muzzle an inch or two, then drive it out from the breach and measure. Do another in the throat/chamber end the same way. The two should be within .001" of each other. You want a cast boolit of .001" over bore diameter MINIMUM. Notice in the links you posted that they sell cast boolits of .311" for 30 caliber, which is .003" larger than a jacketed bullet for same.


geez... now i really feel like a moron, yes dial caliper. I should've remembered that from school.


so, .003 would mean i didn't mess up, yes?

[uncoolperson]

better yet, before i show even more buffoonery with my not knowing what my tools are, or how to use them correctly... (mech engineering degree, you'd think i'd know) can i just start again?

[6pt-sika]

If you decide to slug the barrel . Make sure you oil and or grease it really well before you push the weight thru the bore !

Also the egg shaped weights with the hole thru the center seem to work a bit better for this .

[Echo]

One point I MUST make, is that, after being on this board long enough (and that really isn't very long), you will feel the necessity to change your name from 'uncoolperson' to 'RealCool Dude'! This site will do that for you! I'm a fairly newbie here myself, and there is no better site on the web (for our purposes). Any question you ask will be answered appropriately, rapidly, and completely. You have stumbled on a gold mine... (IMHO)

[Blammer]

I still can't figure out what people mean by shooting WW's.

Just don't work for me...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/DSCN7171.jpg

:)

welcome!

[uncoolperson]

after some thinking here at work, I'm nearing the conclusion that for the time being i'm going to go with basic metal cased, trying to get the basic reloading down then complicate matters a little more and get into cast stuff the right way (furnace, molds, and such).

thanks all for the insight into what i should prepare for, but this is a little too much a little too soon.


"I'll be back"

[Throckmorton]

If you are going to shoot both jacketed and cast boolits,get ALL of the jacket material out of the bore before switching to lead.Made a HUGE difference in my Marlin.
Just something to keep in mind.

[405]

Love it! What a use of bandwidth:mrgreen:
I never have figgerd out how that single curved fin thingy is supposed to work on those?

uncool, I assume you have a 32 Winchester Special in likely a model 94? It may be hard to tap a slug down from the muzzle part way then tap it back out from the breech..... where did that advice come from? Just tap it all the way thru. Most Win 32 Specials, unless odd, have a groove diameter of about .321.... the cast bullets best for that are .321 to about .322. The gas checked variety will also help. Good luck.... this is a rough crowd :roll:

[Wicky]

Blammer all you need to do is get rid of the metal clip otherwise you are on the right track. :-D:-D
I have also whittled a point on some to get a better ballistic co-efficient.
[smilie=l:

[Onlymenotu]

all you need to do is get rid of the metal clip
[smilie=l:

:roll:;) jeesh...... everybody knows those are speedloader's......

[Shotgun Luckey]

Blammer all you need to do is get rid of the metal clip otherwise you are on the right track. :-D:-D
I have also whittled a point on some to get a better ballistic co-efficient.
[smilie=l:

Maybe you could stick the end in a pencil sharpener to put a point on it!!!

[uncoolperson]

Maybe you could stick the end in a pencil sharpener to put a point on it!!!

they cut pencil lead, i don't see why they wouldn't cut wheel lead.

[uncoolperson]

so....ehhh... out of curiosity, what's the worst that happens if the lead is .003 too big to go down the barrel?

after searching here, and attempting to make some (read NONE) sense of some of the more technical stuff, i read a thread about someone that couldn't even get these .324's to chamber... so i had to make some waste (put together an unloaded cartridge) and play with the new setup (a little excited about all my new reloading stuff).

she chambers and cycles them just fine, some small shavings from fitting into the shell.

I grabbed some hornady from the almost local gun shop to use, but now the curiosity is back (that's $60 i ain't getting back without a small battle and lots of shipping).

[Echo]

You hit the major problem with oversize boolits - if too much oversize, the assembled cartridge won't chamber in the gun. Otherwise, the barrel does a good job of sizing during the boolit's trip toward daylight...

[oldhickory]

so....ehhh... out of curiosity, what's the worst that happens if the lead is .003 too big to go down the barrel?

after searching here, and attempting to make some (read NONE) sense of some of the more technical stuff, i read a thread about someone that couldn't even get these .324's to chamber... so i had to make some waste (put together an unloaded cartridge) and play with the new setup (a little excited about all my new reloading stuff).

she chambers and cycles them just fine, some small shavings from fitting into the shell.

I grabbed some hornady from the almost local gun shop to use, but now the curiosity is back (that's $60 i ain't getting back without a small battle and lots of shipping).


You'll want to get a Lyman "M" die, it will expand the necks a little for cast boolits when properly set. It's like the expander die in a pistol die set.

[badgeredd]

You hit the major problem with oversize boolits - if too much oversize, the assembled cartridge won't chamber in the gun. Otherwise, the barrel does a good job of sizing during the boolit's trip toward daylight...

EasyEd is right but I want to mention one thing. We tend to speak of cast boolits here. I noticed you said you will be starting with jword bullets. 32 cal. jacketed will quite likely shoot decently in your rifle. OVERSIZED jacketed bullets (meaning larger than your bore diameter) will raise pressures a lot. Possibly dangerously. My dad's 32 Special loves 8MM jacketed bullets but they have to be modified to a flat nose to cycle and shoot safely in a tubular magazine. I just swaged the nose flat on some round nose bullets. Hope this helps you.
Also these guys are very tolerant of some less informed questions. Most feel that if you are trying, they'll help to keep you safe and give you any info they can. Welcome aboard.
Also even if it'll be a bit before you try casting, stay around and learn.

[uncoolperson]

the oversized i was refering to were these

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=815124&t=11082005

[badgeredd]

the oversized i was refering to were these

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=815124&t=11082005

Maybe some others will comment also. I'd say that you'd be fine with those boolits. Don't forget to get the "M" die though as it will make your life a bunch easier and you don't want to shave lead from the diameter as you load your shells.
Edd

[armexman]

UCP If I knew general area of country you lived in, I or somebody close could mentor or "guide" you in this endeavor. It is very helpful when somebody is close by to show new terms in person, I for one was helped much by a cousin that competed in IHMSA.

[Just Duke]

If I was there I would come over and show you the ropes.

[Jon K]

UPC,

Slug the barrel yet?

If the groove diameter is .321, and you're still worried about .003 over sized boolits, youcan size down to .323, by simply running it thru a Lee sizing die. Minimal cost, done in your reloading press, no need to lube(you already have lubed boolits). http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=738062

As long as it chambers, I wouldn't worry about .003 over sized. See how it shoots, before getting carried away.
Getting too worried = STRESS.

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[uncoolperson]

I'm in Bellingham, Washington.

Nope, haven't slugged the barrel.

After correctly seating the bullet, it didn't chamber, and still shreaded some lead off on the case.


Thanks for pointing that sizing die thing.


I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder... stressed is the only way i know to be.

[MtGun44]

Lee makes a Universal Case Expander die which is very good for
slightly belling the cases to avoid shaving lead. The Lyman M die works
fine but is more expensive and caliber dependent, where the Universal
Lee die is universal. :-)

Bill

[compass will]

I am the person who tried those exact boolits in my Marlin Model 93 and they were too big. But from what I been reading, my gun is not the norm. It was easy to tell, the loaded cartridge would not seat the last 1/8" and allow the action to close. It was sticking on the brass all the way at the top of the neck.

I was able to shoot them after sizing them down to .321. I also learned that once I pushed them past 1600 fps the barrel filled up with lead shavings real quick :roll:

Welcome aboard, your knowledge quest has just begun!:-D

Edit: Just making sure I said that every body I have ever talked to said there 32 special shot the bigger cast bullets (like you bought) with no problem. If the loaded cartradge goes into the chamber without force, it should work for you. One person I shoot with understood the problem, he said he would have just trimmed the cases about 1/8" shorter and used the bigger bullet, but mine shoots .321 great, and I already have all the sizing dies and a nice mold.

[Wayne Smith]

Uncool, you can rest assured that if you were going to do something obviously unsafe several someones here would be yelling at you. Get the Lee Universal Case Expander die, load some up, and see how they shoot. Then get the Lee Size die, size some down, and see how they shoot. Let your rifle answer your questions for you. If neither shoot well, come back and ask some more questions!

[compass will]

I forgot to add, I bought the RCBS cowboy dies set for the 32 special. The expander is a little bigger just for using cast boolits. I am very happy with the dies.

So if you don't already have dies, look at the RCBS cowboy set. All my other dies are Lee, but they did not have a complete set for the 32 that I liked.

[uncoolperson]

ordered me a case expander and a bullet sizer die. I think I've hit that "I'm determined to make these work" point.

should show up soon, then I'll give it a shot.


On a non-cast related note, with factory loads my rifle always shoots 6-7 inches high of the iron sights at 100 yards... irritating. just starting out with slightly higher than minimum loads (on jacketed evil bullets), about 60% between min and max, and she's right on the top of the bead out to 150.


the de-priming pin on my RCBS die set shattered after 30 uses.

[uncoolperson]

okay big fun question... then i'll go shoot

my reloading book doesn't have complete data for cast boolits (see, i'm catchin on), has a table relating Brinell hardness to max PSI, for the boolits i'm using 19000ish seems to be about it.

I'm using reloader 7, and there arn't pressure figures for this in my caliber.

however i found this pdf
http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/pdfs/sphg.pdf
page 138 here gives reloader 7 as AR2207 equivlent, and further up on page 129 it shows 15 grains as the min for cast, with a pressure of 20000 for a 30-30 (i'm a .32 special).

my book says 23.3 - 24 grains for a 170 jacketed with a pressure of 34500 CUP

for the bullets in a coat (i'm also begining to catch on that the j-word isn't nice to say around here) my book says 23.6 - 24 grains for my 32.

go with 15 and adjust, or other wise ideas?

[Junior1942]

Read your reloading book and come back in a few days. Do not--I repeat--DO NOT--try reloading until you read the book!

[uncoolperson]

Read your reloading book and come back in a few days. Do not--I repeat--DO NOT--try reloading until you read the book!

my reloading book doesn't have cast data for .32 special

[w30wcf]

uncoolperson,

You can use .30-30 data which will be close enough. Since your bullet is plain based, for trouble free shooting, keep velocities under 1,500 f.p.s. I would suggest 12-14 grs. of 4227 or 4759; 13-15 grs. of 5744 or 15-17 grs. of 4198.
Just make sure that you don't accidentially double charge a case.

Have fun:mrgreen:
w30wcf

[xr650]

Cool,
I think Junior was talking about the front of the book that describes step by step how to reload.


my reloading book doesn't have cast data for .32 special

[uncoolperson]

the first 8 i put together went downrange avg 1450ish

Thanks for the help.

[compass will]

I am using the RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 32-170-FN 32 Caliber (321 Diameter) 170 Grain Flat Nose Gas Check. Others have told me that the closer you push it towards 2000 fps the better it shoots. I am finding there advice was right on the money. (the key to that speed is the boolit has a gas check)

I am using mine for shooting silhouette out to 200 meters and having no problems.

this winter I will put some on paper at 100 from a rest to see how well they really are doing.

[uncoolperson]

I am using the RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 32-170-FN 32 Caliber (321 Diameter) 170 Grain Flat Nose Gas Check. Others have told me that the closer you push it towards 2000 fps the better it shoots. I am finding there advice was right on the money. (the key to that speed is the boolit has a gas check)

I am using mine for shooting silhouette out to 200 meters and having no problems.

this winter I will put some on paper at 100 from a rest to see how well they really are doing.

Gas check, from what i gather that a chunk of metal (brass or copper from the pictures i've seen) that sits on the tail end of the bullet, right?

I'm trying to keep it straight lead, read somewhere years ago doing so will up the barrel life (and it's cheaper!) which is important to me as this is great-grandfather to grandfather to one uncle then another than my mom then me rifle. I'll keep the original barrel on it if it's stripped completely rather than replace it... that (.32) special (okay, lame joke).