45ACP, 200 gr SWC, what powder?

[Petrol & Powder]

I got out of the 1911 game before I started casting. The majority of my 1911 experience was with jacketed bullets or commercial cast bullets with a small amount of factory cartridges in the mix. In those days WW-231 was my primary powder and WSF was the secondary.

The 200 gr SWC (H&G #68 or one of the clones) still seems to be "The" bullet for most folks that shoot cast bullets in the 1911.

So, with a SAECO #069 or a RCBS 45-201-SWC, what would be the powder of choice for a 45 ACP load?

[Soundguy]

Titegroup, 4.8-5.4gr s

[wddodge]

This is a question that you'll get 20 different answers to and all of them will work very well. I've used 3.9 gr of Clays for many years and probably will never try anything else.

Denny

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm OK with a lot of answers [smilie=s:

[plainsman456]

I use bullseye and unique with boolit in question.
I have used others but their numbers escape me.

[Char-Gar]

All the time, everytime and any time the powder for the 45 ACP is Bulleye. This was the original powder used in the round and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it.

[saleen322]

This is a question that you'll get 20 different answers to and all of them will work very well. I've used 3.9 gr of Clays for many years and probably will never try anything else.

Denny

I agree with you. When I did accuracy testing at 50 yards, 3.7-3.9 of Clays was very good for the 200 SWC from the Springfields and 4.1 with hardball but that load was just okay from the Dan Wesson which liked VV310 better. WST did well in everything and was the best tested with 200 SWC. Bullseye shot good but was behind the other 3 powders when it came to best accuracy.

[Petrol & Powder]

All the time, everytime and any time the powder for the 45 ACP is Bulleye. This was the original powder used in the round and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it.

That's strong endorsement, thanks

[waco]

All the time, everytime and any time the powder for the 45 ACP is Bulleye. This was the original powder used in the round and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it.
Agree. There are lots that work but BE is the standard.

[OptimusPanda]

A 5 grain charge of green dot below a 200 grain swc has become a favorite of mine.

[Soundguy]

That's strong endorsement, thanks

Original doesn't mean best.. It means best they had, back then.

I'm sure spears used to be the 'best' way to kill a mastadon so the tribe coil have a BBQ... But its not 'still the best' way.

[MT Gianni]

AA2, BE, Red Dot, Unique and many more will work well.

[Petrol & Powder]

Original doesn't mean best.. It means best they had, back then.

I'm sure spears used to be the 'best' way to kill a mastadon so the tribe coil have a BBQ... But its not 'still the best' way.

"Original" was only part of the answer. The answer also included "....and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it".

If something significantly better has come along, it doesn't seem to have pushed Bullseye completely out of the picture.

[azrednek]

All the time, everytime and any time the powder for the 45 ACP is Bulleye. This was the original powder used in the round and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it.

I agree, the original load of 5.0 Bullseye with a 230 FMJ was the standard. From what I've read on the net (so it has to be true!!) 5.5 BE in 1911 was nearly immediately reduced to 5.0 during the military trials. My load of 4.0 BE with a 200gr cast or swaged lead is the most accurate combination I've come up with. Been using it since the 70's. I've played around with the Dots, Unique, Herco, PB and likely some others I've forgotten. Nothing so far beat the shot to shot accuracy of 4.0 BE with a 200 gr lead slug.

[jcren]

4.2-4.6 of red dot is my current go-to. Also burned a lot of unique 5.6 at a time.

[Soundguy]

"Original" was only part of the answer. The answer also included "....and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it".

If something significantly better has come along, it doesn't seem to have pushed Bullseye completely out of the picture.

I didn't say if it wasn't best it had to be pushed out either.

A big part of the discussion involves a large variable, IE individual guns. I can take 2 guns, ladder test them and find different powders working 'best' in different guns.

There are common and safe answers, I doubt a universal, best in all guns is a point that can be nailed down. Its a unicorn.

[Petrol & Powder]

Fair enough Soundguy, but I'm a BIG fan of long track records.

"we've always done it that way", doesn't necessarily mean it is the best way to do something.

HOWEVER

"we've always done it that way" can mean that we've tried other things and keep coming back to what is known to work.

Sometimes we stick with the old ways because we're stubborn or dogmatic and sometimes we stick with the old ways because they work and we haven't found anything better.

[azrednek]

Fair enough Soundguy, but I'm a BIG fan of long track records.

"we've always done it that way", doesn't necessarily mean it is the best way to do something.

HOWEVER

"we've always done it that way" can mean that we've tried other things and keep coming back to what is known to work.

Sometimes we stick with the old ways because we're stubborn or dogmatic and sometimes we stick with the old ways because they work and we haven't found anything better.

IMHO if t ain't broke don't fix it. My however is, there have been numerous new powders introduced the past 20 years. Published loading data has been downsized especially with pistol powders to leave a margin of error for progressive presses dumping charges that are not individually weighed and probably liability reasons for stupid people. There are likely some better, safer and more accurate combinations but one will never know the until he experiments. For me, I'll stick with my pet loads.

[Petrol & Powder]

".......Published loading data has been downsized especially with pistol powders to leave a margin of error for progressive presses dumping charges that are not individually weighed ..."

Are you saying load data has become more conservative due to the abundance of progressive presses?

I find that to be a bit far fetched.

[Bzcraig]

Bullseye, Red Dot, 231 are the 3 I use

[Texas by God]

5 grs Bullseye/200swc forever. My go to .45 ACP load.

[joebaja]

I use a fair bit of Bullseye, but have been tinkering with 700X lately. It doesn't meter as nice as BE or Titegroup, or cold oatmeal for that matter, but it shoots nice and is *always* in stock at my local Cabela's.

[Soundguy]

I think much of the change in charges comes from 2 things.

1, yeah, liability ALWAYS factors.

2, use of Pezo testing vs copper crush discs. Actually seeing the pressure curve, vs seeing the max effect on a deformed plug.

[azrednek]

".......Published loading data has been downsized especially with pistol powders to leave a margin of error for progressive presses dumping charges that are not individually weighed ..."

Are you saying load data has become more conservative due to the abundance of progressive presses?

I find that to be a bit far fetched.

Do a comparison of max loads from a 70's manual to something recently published. Many max loads are reduced apx 10%.

[Reverend Al]

When I was shooting a large volume of .45 ACP for IPSC with 200 grain SWC cast bullets my go-to load was always with Winchester 231. I've likely tried 6 or more different powders behind the same 200 grain SWC bullets, but still can't beat my original W231 load. (My 1911 is a modestly reworked Series 70 Government with a Bar Sto match grade hard fit barrel.)

[nicholst55]

Do a comparison of max loads from a 70's manual to something recently published. Many max loads are reduced apx 10%.

A good part of the reason(s) behind that is that the folks that publish loading manuals are pretty universally actually pressure-testing their data now. That wasn't necessarily so in days gone by. Liability is a huge factor in why they're pressure-testing now.

For example, I have a copy of Speer #8 on my bookshelf, and some of the loads published in it are downright frightening! There's one .38 Special load listed that would be a good mid-range .357 Magnum load!

[tazman]

Another powder to consider is WST. It gives the same results downrange as the other powders do and is slightly bulkier, making it easier to be certain you haven't mischarged the case.
It also burns cleaner than some of the other powders mentioned, particularly if you like to use light practice loads.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree the published data has trended downward in terms of charge weights. I'm not sure progressive presses have anything to do with that.

The change in pressure testing methods probably plays a big role.

[Petrol & Powder]

5 grs Bullseye/200swc forever. My go to .45 ACP load.

Thank You

[Thumbcocker]

win. 231

[Petrol & Powder]

win. 231

That was the powder I used in the past. Bullseye seems to have quite the following.

[lotech]

With the H&G #068 or SAECO #069, I tried 231, WSL, 540, Titegroup, Power Pistol, 800X, AA#5, AA#7, Blue Dot, and Herco, maybe Unique and others I have forgotten. A few of these probably equaled the accuracy of 5 grs. Bullseye, but I don't think any beat it. For a strictly target load, a grain or so less Bullseye might be a little more accurate.

[jakharath]

5 grains of Titegroup

[Soundguy]

5 grains of Titegroup

I was beginning to think I was the only titegroup loader here. I love it in my wheelguns too.

[Kraschenbirn]

Dirty or not, I used B'eye and Lyman 452460s for years in my Gold Cup for paper punching. Later, when I got into steel shooting and bowling pins, I switched to AA#5 and an H&G 68 in my 'racegun'. Within my skill level, there's very little to choose from between the two.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

Just one additional note: A 200 grain SWC bullet at full velocity (850 +- fps) make a wonderful all around load for the 1911 pistol. It will retain the accuracy of lighter target loads, yet deliver plenty of punch for field and social use.

I like about 4.8 grains of Bulleye, but friend Glen Fryxell thinks that 7.0 grains of Unique is the way to go. I have used Glen's load and it does indeed do very well, but some how, not using Bullseye seem irreligious or unholy.

[Motor]

Bullseye, Unique, TiteGroup are my 3 favorite in no particular order. :)

Motor

[anothernewb]

Used to use 231. but went back to the old school. Love bullseye for them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In general with 45acp, my goto is Titegroup for J-words and Bullseye for cast.

With that said, I had a can of SR7625 sitting around for quite a while, I don't recall where I got it? I had no specific use for it, so it must have been a auction or gunshow find for a low price?

Anyway, last year, I loaded a batch of 200gr SWC in 45acp with the SR7625. I think it's my new favorite powder for that...Too Bad it's been discontinued :(
I've been watching the gunshows for an old can ever since, maybe I'll find one someday?

[azrednek]

I agree the published data has trended downward in terms of charge weights. I'm not sure progressive presses have anything to do with that.

The change in pressure testing methods probably plays a big role.

The biggest loss in my mind were Frank Barnes' recommended loads in his Cartridges Of The World publication. A good portion of his data was simply guess work on obsolete ammo. I'm told but can't attest to the veracity. A 41 mag mis-print resulted in a lawsuit. The most recent COW publication I saw after Barnes passed didn't have any loading data.

[wildcatter]

ww-231 or Bullseye buy em both by the keg because from 32 to 45 cal they are very reliable for accuracy in most non magnum loads,, for me anyways

[Grmps]

I've had good luck with AUTOCOMP in 45 acp load but haven't loaded 200 grn yet

[Hardcast416taylor]

4.2-4.6 of red dot is my current go-to. Also burned a lot of unique 5.6 at a time.

I agree with the Red Dot load. I`ve also used HP-38, Win. 231, Unique, and even Herco.Robert

[Ed_Shot]

4.2-4.6 of red dot is my current go-to. Also burned a lot of unique 5.6 at a time.

+1 for Red Dot/Promo 4.5 gr.

[mr surveyor]

I'm a fan of the AA powders .... I like both AA#5 and AA#7 for the .45 acp, depending on the application.


jd

[daniel lawecki]

+1 for Titegroup and the 200 grain SWC in the .45 Acp. After many thousands of rounds it works for me and groups are one ragged hole.

[Gtrubicon]

700x, cleaner than bullseye in my opinion

[Texas by God]

3.5grs Red Dot is accurate & fun.
Bullseye is still my favorite.
I was trying to hit the bottom bullet hole at 20 feet. Custom Ballerina Molester/my avatar.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171218/576f1d14844c9690509d6b8d0874bd9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171218/f516c785f6cb0d210912fba01a45b037.jpg

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[tazman]

Ballerina Molester?
That sounds illegal somehow.

[derek45]

CLAYS
WST
231

in that order of preference

[Randy Bohannon]

I was gifted two 8lb jugs of BE one was opened with less than 1/4 out of it. That was 2001 I'm still on the first one. at < 5.0 gr. for about anything it's good for.Nothing has given me better performance over the widest range of handgun cartridges and bullet weights.BE and cast lead is heaven especially for older revolvers not needing hot rodding.

[wl620]

If I had a Ballerina Molester thats the load I would shoot in it.
Back before it quit me my phillipino special rock island liked power pistol with rcbs 45-201
The colt likes unique and 452460
I havent found any thing the ruger likes yet mainly cause after a half day of shooting it trying to find something that shot good, the blasted front sight up an fell off i was pretty disgusted at that point and put it up where i couldnt see it for awhile.

[Texas by God]

Ballerina Molester?
That sounds illegal somehow.I chuckled when I saw the word play on Ballester-Molina. My apologies to the Nutcracker!

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[Petrol & Powder]

Ballerina Molester?
That sounds illegal somehow.

I just spewed coffee all over the keyboard !

I think he meant to say "Ballester Molina" :shock:

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Win 231 or Red Dot for me

[Ateam]

231, by the keg

[scattershot]

Personally, I like 4.0 Red Dot with that 200 grain bullet.

[Soundguy]

I chuckled when I saw the word play on Ballester-Molina. My apologies to the Nutcracker!

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That thar is funny! ;)

[tazman]

I chuckled when I saw the word play on Ballester-Molina. My apologies to the Nutcracker!

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It wasn't word play. That is what you apparently typed or your phone auto-corrected. As of this moment , your picture post still says Ballerina Molester.

[therealhitman]

+1 on WST. Clean, consistant and economical.

[Texas by God]

Yes, I meant my wordplay that I reused from nother forum. I first heard the BM referred to that way a couple of years ago and although not PC- it is funny (as long as you're not a ballerina)

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[tazman]

I wasn't familiar with the name, Ballester-Molina, and didn't know what you were referring to. After a little research, I understand.

[Boogieman]

BE 86 works well under a 200gr. Lee SWC , HG68 style. so does Titegroup

[tazman]

For a nice, soft shooting, and very accurate load with a 200 grain boolit, I use 4.0 grains of either WST, Bullseye, or Titegroup. They all give the same accuracy and impact point in my Springfield Mil-Spec.
They all work the action reliably for me.
I just shot some of the WST and Bullseye loads this afternoon.

[Budzilla 19]

I agree with 700X. It works for me, and because I got a 12 pound keg left over from competition shotgunning days. I may not live long enough to burn it up, lol! Good luck whatever you decide.

[10gaOkie]

Back when I was searching for the best loads in my 1911s, I tested them in a Ransom Rest. The one load that stood out above all others being the most accurate was the 5.0gr load of BE with any SWC 185 to 200gr cast bullet and having light recoil. I now load this charge behind the Lee SWC 200gr TL bullet. My bullets, lubed and sized to .452" are 188gr. with linotype. /Chris

[stubshaft]

When I shot IPSC I loaded 5.3 Red Dot behind a 200 gr. boolit. For PPC I used 3.7 Red Dot behind a SAECO 148 gr. WC.

[Lloyd Smale]

I used to shoot competitive bullseye and ppc and spent MANY hours working up loads for my 1911s. Found that 3.5-4.2 grains of bullseye (depending on the gun) works better then any other powder ive tried. Now if you looking for top end velocity something like 231 might be better for for dead nuts accuracy its bullseye all the way for me.
All the time, everytime and any time the powder for the 45 ACP is Bulleye. This was the original powder used in the round and countless billions of arsenal and commercial ammo makers have been loaded with it.

[Jedman]

I use to shoot a lot of trap and skeet so I had many different powders to try when I got into loading for the 45 ACP.
I have a couple of jugs of the original Accurate Nitro 100 powder and find any load from 3.0 to 4.8 grs. under a 200 gr. cast bullet shoots great for me.
But really most all powders that work for 12 ga. target loads will work well in the 45.

Jedman

[docmagnum357]

I have used every powder anyone else listed above. Clays/ Clay Dot is my current choice, as is the 3.9 charge weight. Powder type is important, but the other factors like good clean cases, consistent bullet and primer seating, consistent boolit weight and what you had for dinner seem to make more difference in the big scheme of things.

[opos]

Missouri #4 FNRP with the powder coating ... Hardness is about 12...5 grains of 231 in my CZ 97...nothing has matched it so I don't change...

[1Hawkeye]

Unique 5.7grs its been my pet load for years.

[krems]

WW 231 is my favorite 45ACP powder. 5.3 grains with an OAL of 1.250 gets the job done every time in all my 1911’s...

[gray wolf]

200 grain # 68
3.5/ 4.7 tite group or B/E end of story.
For the light# loads of 3.5 you may have to
under spring the gun to maybe a 15# recoil spring (maybe)

[Rodfac]

Another vote for Winchester 231...5.2 is my load with the great old H&G 68, seated to allow just the barest band of lead to show at the shoulder...this cushions in my opinion, the rounds cambering as it advances into the chamber. Accuracy with a good barrel and good eyes all the gun is capable. Rod

[Divil]

3.9 or 4.0gr of VV-310 under a H&G 68 type.

[cpaspr]

I'm a fan of the AA powders .... I like both AA#5 and AA#7 for the .45 acp, depending on the application.


jd

Daniel - I've heard that Titegroup burns a bit too hot with cast boolits. What's your opinion on that?

[Soundguy]

i use titegroup exclusively on my 38/357/45acp, can't say that I've had any problem with leading on cast plain base boolits. I have recovered some from berms for re-melt, none exhibited melted out bases, grooves on driving bands were good and not smeared. bhn was about 10, to perhaps 12 on some magnum batches.

[tazman]

I use Titegroup in 38, 9mm, and 45acp. In longer strings of fairly rapid fire, the gun barrel heats up faster. It doesn't seem to have any effect on boolits, accuracy, or leading.
I like it because it is cheaper per shot and flows perfectly through my powder measure.

[wizofwas]

3.5 gr. of Bullseye for plinking. It has worked in everything I've tried to feed it too.

[roysha]

700x, cleaner than bullseye in my opinion

Agreed. 700X in .32, .38, 9mm, 45 ACP.

[franciscom]

Hello: Best recipe for my Ballester Rigaud (Same pistol as Ballester Molina .45 ACP but different name.) has been PC’ed soft lead Lee 200gr SWC over 4.1gr Bullseye/COAL 31.7mm/Local Imaz LP primers. Hope it helps.
Regards
Francisco (From Argentina)


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[Ia.redneck]

I believe Bill Wilson tests his 1911's with 4.8 Bullseye under a 200gr H&G 68.
1.250 C.O.A.L.

[PbHurler]

3.9 or 4.0gr of VV-310 under a H&G 68 type.

Well, that makes two of us [smilie=s:

[Texas by God]

Hello: Best recipe for my Ballester Rigaud (Same pistol as Ballester Molina .45 ACP but different name.) has been PC’ed soft lead Lee 200gr SWC over 4.1gr Bullseye/COAL 31.7mm/Local Imaz LP primers. Hope it helps.
Regards
Francisco (From Argentina)


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando TapatalkMy Ballester Molina is featured in the pic for this thread. I want to thank your countrymen's ancestors for building it just for me! My everyday load for it is 5 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain swc bullet.
Thomas

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[franciscom]

My Ballester Molina is featured in the pic for this thread. I want to thank your countrymen's ancestors for building it just for me! My everyday load for it is 5 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain swc bullet.
Thomas

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Thanks Thomas, nice to hear you are enjoying your Ballester Molina. I am very fond of it too. I will try your pet load. May be I get better results with it!
Cheers,
Francisco


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[garrisonjoe]

4.6 to 4.7 WST, 200 grain lead, makes 825 FPS for me.
good luck, garrisonjoe

[bullseye67]

Good evening.
Well I have put a lot of H&G #68 boolits through my 45's over the years. I have used countless pounds of BE, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, WW 231, WST, Auto Comp, AA#5, #7 and silhouette. All tested in a Ransom rest for accuracy. During the shortage of powder a couple of years ago. One powder always available at decent pricing was TiteWad. It was half the price of 231 and about a third of BE. Bought a jug, pulled out the Ransom rest and proceeded to work up a load. I shoot shortline only now so I only worked up a load for that. 4.2grs BE with, 30WW/70Pb H&G#68, TL'd White Label 45/45/10, was my control. 1.46 inch average for 5 groups, 10 shots each group. Same boolits... TiteWad 3.3grs 1.53 inch average for 5 10 shot groups out of the Ransom rest. Went back and bought 20 pounds!! Have been shooting the same scores as I was before.
Your results might be different than mine.....but I doubt it:drinks:

[Petrol & Powder]

So to revive this thread, ...

200 Gr Saeco #69

4.8 grains of Bullseye

OR

5.2 grains of WW231 ????

[Rodfac]

Win 231 has always worked for me in my .45's, both revolver and auto: S&W M25, Colt SAA with .45 ACP cylinder fitted, 4 Colt 1911's, one a Gold Cup, a WWll Remington-Rand 1911a1, a pair of Ruger SR1911's in both lengths, a Sig P220 of W. German manuf., and a Sig 1911 RCS (4" bbl., alloy frame, and an Officer's Model grip length).

All of them perked with most any quality SWC that generally followed the H&G's #68 shape and backed by ~5.0-5.2 gr of Win 231. That combination will give me sub-2" gps at 25 yds on demand from a rested position and with 72 yo eyes doing the steering over open sights. Were I to bet the farm on a single shot at 25 yds, that would be the caliber and load I'd use.

When my two sons + families return to our KY farm each year for Christmas, we hold the annual family only KY farm pistol championships. We start at 15 yds, any position but not rested, and take a shot at a railroad tie plate (~8"x15"). One shot. If you miss, yer outta the game. We back up in 5 yd increments till a winner emerges. Last year, the game was concluded at the 70 yard line and I didn't win.

The above load is all we use...father and sons, by long use, and in the competitive spirit. PS: the winner is greeted by the adoring cheers of our women-folk, and we celebrate with "KY Fruit Juice" (Pappy Van-Winkle) if the supply is available!.

Guard your fort, Rod

[Petrol & Powder]

I like it !

Does anyone claim their bullet went through one of the holes in the tie plate :-P ?

I've switched from 231 to Bullseye for most of my 38 Special loads so I have a lot of 231 on the shelf. If I can burn that surplus 231 in 45 ACP loads that will allow me to use it up.

[Texas by God]

By all means use the 231. Lots of posters recommended it and you have lots of it. Bullseye is still my favorite but I'm down to 50 rounds of the 300 I loaded with Red Dot a while back(because I had a lot of it) and it is a good load, too.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think I'm going to use up most of that 231 and then decide if I want to use Bullseye for both my 38 Special loads and my 45 ACP loads.
I don't like to jump back and forth between powders but I'll never use up that 231 by only shooting it in 38 Special.

Thanks to all.

[igolfat8]

3.8 Grains of BE is a classic bullseye target load. 3.6 Grains of Clays is another of my favorite loads.

[tazman]

I think I'm going to use up most of that 231 and then decide if I want to use Bullseye for both my 38 Special loads and my 45 ACP loads.
I don't like to jump back and forth between powders but I'll never use up that 231 by only shooting it in 38 Special.

Thanks to all.

Sounds like a plan. I use almost any pistol powder in my 45acp 200 grain loads at one time or another. They all work well. The cartridge and boolit weight combination is very forgiving of changes.

[Petrol & Powder]

So........SAECO #069, about 10 BHn, NRA 50/50 lube, sized to .452", seated almost flush to the shoulder of the front driving band (about a fingernail width protruding above the case mouth), taper crimp, 5.2 Grains of ww231.

Haven't shot it on paper yet but it cycles the pistol, seems to shoot to the sights and hits the steel plates every time. I think this will be the load and I'll tweak the charge weight to get the smallest group - when this rain stops !

[tazman]

Please let us know how it works out for you. Data from a success story is always useful.

[asmith80]

I was getting the best accuracy from the MP 452-200 (HG #68 clone) and 4.6 grains Bullseye. I wasn't doing any scientific accuracy testing, unless you count resting my wrists on my knees while sitting in the back of my truck and shooting at 25 yards scientific. Every pistol caliber I load for has a load using Bullseye. I've got other powders, but I always seem to come back to that one, as I'm sure it will always work

[SSGOldfart]

RedDot is cleaner than bullseye or 231,but ww231 is hard to beat in a 45acp

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, not that we needed any more rain (11.5" for this month alone and 65.4" for the year) but we got another 1/4" this afternoon.

I did get to put about 100 rounds on steel targets and as far as I can tell - everything is in tune.
100% reliability so far. Positive ejection of spent casings. Shoots point of aim. Not as hard recoiling as my 230gr FMJ loads but it "feels" right (for what that's worth).
I still haven't been able to get this round on paper but everything is looking good.

[Finster101]

I’ve been using 4grs of Promo/Red dot under a H&G 68 clone for years now and see no reason to change.

[jonp]

200gr is my boolit of choice and I put it over 4.6gr Promo.

I've tried a bunch of powders like everyone here: Promo, Unique, Titegroup, Universal, Bullseye, 231, Vectan GM3 but nothing seems better than the Promo although the new IMR Target is pretty darn clean and meters well.

[bstone5]

Use 231 or HP-38

[Dieselhorses]

OK so I took a few minutes to tally up the votes/recommendations (so far) here as follows:

231...…………...35 votes
TiteGroup……..15 votes
Bullseye...…….36 votes
Clays...………...6 votes
Green Dot...….2 votes
Unique...……….14 votes
HP38...………….10 votes

May have missed a couple powders. Given HP38 & 231 are really the same powder then it rules at 45!

[Petrol & Powder]

OK so I took a few minutes to tally up the votes/recommendations (so far) here as follows:

231...…………...35 votes
TiteGroup……..15 votes
Bullseye...…….36 votes
Clays...………...6 votes
Green Dot...….2 votes
Unique...……….14 votes
HP38...………….10 votes

May have missed a couple powders. Given HP38 & 231 are really the same powder then it rules at 45!

Thank You for doing that !

It does seem to come down to WW231 [HP-38] or Bullseye.

231 appears to be a good powder for 45 ACP and there's a lot of support for Bullseye as well. My guess is they are both excellent powders for 200 grain 45 ACP cartridges.

I have 4 loads for 38 Special (2 SWC and 2 WC); three of them use Bullseye and the 4th uses ww231. So right now I keep Bullseye and 231 on hand.

I am a big proponent of simple logistics and if I could use Bullseye for ALL of my 38 Special loads and my 45 ACP loads - that would be great!

I have 231 on the shelf that I would like to use up. Maybe I could eventually drop that one 38 Special load that I use 231 for and switch both the 38 Special & 45 ACP cartridges to Bullseye. We'll see. I'll tweak the 231 load to find the smallest group and then I'll do a side by side comparison with Bullseye.

In the meantime, 5.2 grains of 231 is doing a great job in the 200 grain SWC 45 ACP load.

[Dieselhorses]

Thank You for doing that !

It does seem to come down to WW231 [HP-38] or Bullseye.

231 appears to be a good powder for 45 ACP and there's a lot of support for Bullseye as well. My guess is they are both excellent powders for 200 grain 45 ACP cartridges.

I have 4 loads for 38 Special (2 SWC and 2 WC); three of them use Bullseye and the 4th uses ww231. So right now I keep Bullseye and 231 on hand.

I am a big proponent of simple logistics and if I could use Bullseye for ALL of my 38 Special loads and my 45 ACP loads - that would be great!

I have 231 on the shelf that I would like to use up. Maybe I could eventually drop that one 38 Special load that I use 231 for and switch both the 38 Special & 45 ACP cartridges to Bullseye. We'll see. I'll tweak the 231 load to find the smallest group and then I'll do a side by side comparison with Bullseye.

In the meantime, 5.2 grains of 231 is doing a great job in the 200 grain SWC 45 ACP load.No problem! I know im OCD lol

5.2 is the magic number in my Ruger P90. Seems to work across the board but every gun is different. Think I'm gonna try some bullseye just to see what it does.

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[tazman]

Personally, I prefer WST for 45ACP 200 grain boolits. Granted, I am not running full power loads. I am using 4.2 grains for a light target load and it works fine in all my 45ACP pistols.
WST seems to burn very clean and has a different small than Bullseye.
That said, Bullseye is every bit as accurate as WST in a similar load.
I have not yet tried 231/hp38 in 45SCP yet.

[Rick B]

Longtime user of Bullseye. Have to agree with Tazman. Tried WST a couple of years ago. At that time I was using a Ransom Rest. 4.2 grains of WST with a Winchester LP Primer was the winner loaded behind one of M&P’s 200 grain HP. Taper crimped to .469. Shot this load in a 1911 and a Ruger Bisley with the 45 ACP cylinder. Groups were shot at 50 yards and were repeated on successive days. WST meters well and is very clean.
Rick

[tazman]

A short addendum to my previous post. The boolits used were H&G 68 clone and Lyman 452460 cast from range scrap and water dropped from the mold,more for convenience than the extra hardness since this load doesn't need it. Boolits were sized to .452.
I have used both White Label NRA 50-50 in my 4500 lubrisizer and White Label X-lox tumble lube. Both gave outstanding results.

[Old Coot]

Unique 5.5gr.

[Brad Cayton]

Another WST user. I shoot 4.7 grains behind a HG 68 clone and it's very accurate in my 3, 45s.

[tazman]

Petrol & Powder---- Have you had a chance to do any further testing with your load combination?

[Larry Gibson]

Really?

6 pages of posts on what powder to use in the 45 ACP under a 200 gr SWC......goes to show what a wonderfully versatile cartridge John Moses Browning came up with.......:-)

I still prefer 5 gr Bullseye........

[Texas by God]

Really?

6 pages of posts on what powder to use in the 45 ACP under a 200 gr SWC......goes to show what a wonderfully versatile cartridge John Moses Browning came up with.......:-)

I still prefer 5 gr Bullseye........Amen. I'll use something else when something works better for me. Bullseye is THE .45ACP powder yesterday, today, and tomorrow for me!

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[kmw1954]

Again late to the party.

Many swear by WW231 or HP-38 and I do as well in my 9mm's, the 45acp not so much. Tried shooting this in both a 4" XD MOD2 and a Large frame Witness and when firing indoors both the wife and I notice a large amount of muzzle flash which we find distracting. So we have been using Ramshot Silhouette in the 45acp with fine results and when shooting indoors we do notice less smoke in the room.

[OFFSHORE]

I'm going to be the "odd man out" here. I just wanted to give CFE Pistol a try due to seeing it on a friends bench. He gave me several tablespoonfuls of it and I gave it a whirl. . .it did well in my Gold Cup National Match, so I bought a pound. After a little experimenting I settled on 7.5 grains of the CFE Pistol under a Lee 452-200-RF. This boolit is of 50/50 COWW/SOWW H2O quenched (not that it is needed, I just do) and sized to .452 then lubed with Ben's Red (I have switched everything over to Ben's Red!) and these weigh-out to 214gr. average. I shoot this load in three 45ACP pistols; Colt Gold Cup National Match, Springfield Long Slide V-16 and a Springfield XD Mod 2 Subcompact. The Colt is my fun-gun, pure target perfection! The V-16 is duel purpose hunting/target, numerous hogs and a few deer have fallen to this pistol. The XD Subcompact is my carry gun, with 10 rounds of this wide meplat bullet sailing along at 915 FPS, I don't think any two-legged varmint could withstand a dose of it. I may have just gotten lucky for this load combination to work out perfectly in all three .45's, but I must say I'm REAL happy it worked out that way. Awesome accuracy, great velocity, meters fantastic and clean burning. . .couldn't ask for more.

Just for the record though. . .W231 and Silhouette were my GO-TO powers for a long time! ! !

[dougader]

231 has been my powder for years, even decades. when it's gone, though, WST is the new 45 auto powder for 200-230 grain boolits.

[RCL]

Been using 4.5 grains of WST in my 1911's for last couple of years and really like it.
Accurate enough and burns clean.

[Petrol & Powder]

Update, I did get a chance to put some more rounds down range and everything seems right.

5.2 Grains of ww231 behind a SAECO #069 sized to .452" . I locked everything down and I'll shoot that for a while. I still haven't had a chance to put that on paper (life happened coupled with a long stretch of bad weather) but I can see the hits on the steel and it's all good.


When I get a chance I'll put these on paper and decide if I want to try some rounds with Bullseye.

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/3Jj4qcN.jpg

[osteodoc08]

5.3gr 231 has been my go to load for years.

[TNsailorman]

5.2 grains of Bullseye for target and 5.4 grains of bullseye for bowling pins.

[stinkkoat]

Why or what causes a given bullet 200 grn swc using say, bullseye or 231, (traveling at the same f.p.s) .fired from the same 1911 attached to a Ransom Rest,, at the same yardage, to group vs not to group?

[tazman]

Why or what causes a given bullet 200 grn swc using say, bullseye or 231, (traveling at the same f.p.s) .fired from the same 1911 attached to a Ransom Rest,, at the same yardage, to group vs not to group?

If we knew the answer to that question and could consistently reproduce the result, we would be millionaires.
There are loads that generally work as shown by the popularity of some combinations but, unfortunately, they don't always work.

[Alferd Packer]

Bullseye

[Alferd Packer]

Editing surplus

[Burnt Fingers]

Why or what causes a given bullet 200 grn swc using say, bullseye or 231, (traveling at the same f.p.s) .fired from the same 1911 attached to a Ransom Rest,, at the same yardage, to group vs not to group?

As Tazman said we have no idea.

I've run across this same thing in every cartridge I load for.


The latest one so far was with 9mm. Using the MP slick sided 147 gr RN boolit I developed a load using Ramshot Competition that was super accurate in my Canik. In my buddies Canik it was good but not great.

I loaded up the same boolit with three other powders. WSF, IMR Target, and Sport Pistol.

Every load using the IMR Target looked like shotgun patterns from both pistols. The Sport Pistol shot really well in his but not in mine. The WSF shot like a house on fire from his pistol and was ALMOST as good as the Competition in mine.

I've had some powders under 200-210 gr SWC boolits that just wouldn't shoot. I've loaded some two dozen or more powders under the same boolit.


WST an/or Vectan A1 both shoot really well in all my pistols.

[Txcowboy52]

6 grains Win. 231 works great for me . I have used this load in competition for years and have loaded tens of thousands of this particular load . 200 gr. SWC Federal LP primer , I use 1.250 as my overall length. Good luck!

[nueces5]

I follow this post closely as I am trying to develop a charge for precision shots with my Colt 1911 system, boolits 452389 that casting in 180 grains, PC. So far I have tried with unique, power pistol and 231. The last (231) between 4,4 and 5 grains I had the best groups, but I still think that they can be better. I wanted to try longshot to see what happened, but reading this post and others, I think I better stay in the fast powder. When I re-enter bullseye I will try to buy a couple of pounds. Tomorrow if my daughter stops having a fever I will go see how they shoot with 5 grains of 231.

[igolfat8]

3.8 BE under a 200 LSWC has been my bullseye load for 30 years.

[Pete44mag]

Use titegroup 4.4 to 5.4 gr. Load 3.6 grains. For 50 foot bullseye competition and reduced recoil spring two pounds.

[stinkkoat]

Getting back to my original post above, i've narrowed it down to a 200 grain lswc DGB "Green Bullet" using 5.1 grns of bullseye. My powder measure throws 5.1 consistantly(within .1 grn TOTAL), oal held to .003 total. Shooting from the Ransom rest at 20 yards, my 5 shot groups range from .750 to 2.000. Can't figure out why some rounds are .750" 1 hole groups others you can count the individual holes. Also wanted to add that the gun is a Colt Gold Cup series 80 with probably less than 1000 rounds thru it.

[kingrj]

ANYTHING with a relative burn rate between Bullseye and PowerPistol

[Bazoo]

I appreciate this conversation and all those who have shared. I'm fixing to follow a road often traveled, likely with 5 grains bullseye and the RCBS copy of the h&g 68, the 45-201-SWC.

Has anyone used WSF under this bullet? I've been using it for heavier 45 auto, and probably will work a load up with the 68 copy since I have some. Will be switching to bullseye thoug as I have a keg, but I like experimenting.

[cowboy4evr]

I found great favor using Ramshot True Blue . It's " tailor " made for lower pressure cartridges ie : 38 spl , 44 spl , 45 colt and 45 acp . It meters like water and delivered favorable accuracy in my Sig 1911 . Regards Paul

[Old School Big Bore]

+1 to kingrj and Burnt Fingers - each firearm, regardless of cookie-cutter production, is an entity unto itself and in the search for the best suited powder, one must do the winnowing. That said, anything from the quick end of the spectrum could be what you need.
My work with the .45 has mostly been in the area of precision shooting with a match 1911, in various applications not having a major/minor power consideration, so I've concentrated on reducing recoil. I've used it for steel challenge, bowling pins and our local LE matches that use a B-27 and start at 5 yards and progress to 25 yards, so the less recoil the better as regards my stamina from one end of the match to the other. In the '70s I started out with the Big Three on my bench regarding pistols, Bullseye, Unique and 2400. I used Bullseye for target loads, Unique for duty loads and 2400 for magnum revolver loads. Since then I've tested numerous powders in the 45, and found that W231/HP38 meters well, has acceptable flash, burns cleanly and gives me match accuracy, so 4.5 has become my go-to with the 200 gr SWC regardless of source. My Lee 45-200-SWC runs my 1911 and that of my shooting partner, both of which have reduced power recoil springs. I tried 4.3 but it wouldn't run either gun and I ended up shooting it away in a 625JM. Lately, I bought the reloading portion of an estate sale, and there was a quantity of 45 ACP ammo with 185 & 200 gr SWCs over 3.7/700X and a couple partial cans of said powder. Those loads ran my 1911 and shot well in it, and I've been playing with the powder in several calibers, but I don't see anything about it that would lead me to displace the 231/HP38. I was gifted half a pound of WAP, and it sat on the shelf for years - then I bought a bottle of Silhouette on speculation, and when I read that Silhouette was a development of WAP I broke out the WAP and used it up with Silhouette data. The Silhouette and 700X entered the group I use in 9mm - Sport Pistol, Powder Pistol & W540/HS6.
One thing to keep in mind regarding Bullseye is that Alliant has reformulated some of the former Hercules powders, and you will want to work up from below.
Ed <><

[dougader]

We used 5.7 grains W231 with the 200 gr SWC in IPSC to make the old major PF of 175. (200 gr x 875fps = 175,000/1,000 = 175).