Customizing cap and ball revolvers

[texassako]

I was just wondering if anybody alters or has altered a cap and ball from its original historic look. Quite a few are not even all that authentic a copy to begin with. I have seen a few homemade belly gun types and Pietta makes one of those, kind of wondering if there are others out there. I like this one, especially having decent sights without the long target barrel.


https://youtu.be/monbm21UqQ0

[KCSO]

I did my first one in 1984 for a friend who wanted a carry gun and was a dedicated muzzleloader. Cut an 1858 Remington to 5 inches and refitted the action parts. That gun would shoot into 6 inches at 100 long steps. We currently do a bulldog like the video and the Mormon Avenger that is made on an 1851 Navy frame. We do the grips a little different and I will post a photo late of one that is in the works now.

[Texas by God]

I installed dovetail sights on the barrel of a brass frame .44 51 copy and cut down the hammer sight. The front sight was from a P14 Eddystone. It is a superbly accurate revolver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[pietro]

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The author of that video, Mike Beliveau, writes for a pretty decent C&B revolver mag, Guns of the Old West.

Being a subscriber, I have years of back issues, where a multitude of different custom C&B revolvers have been covered - many of which gave me ideas for customizing my own guns.

The latest issue contains an article on snub-nose conversions.


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[texassako]

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The author of that video, Mike Beliveau, writes for a pretty decent C&B revolver mag, Guns of the Old West.

Being a subscriber, I have years of back issues, where a multitude of different custom C&B revolvers have been covered - many of which gave me ideas for customizing my own guns.


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I have read one or two killing time in the past. I have only recently become interested in these. Having a case of bp going unused and ending up with 50 pounds of round balls in a trade probably increases that interest. I might need to check for some back issues.

[Texas by God]

I gave mine to a cowboy friend. Now you've got me wanting another- maybe a Remington this time........

[AbitNutz]

Here's my Ruger ROA. There are almost too many modifications to list, Power Inc Colt grip frame, Classicballistx cylinder, Goon reworked lockwork, Clement Bisley hammer, brass dovetail sight, insert rear sight, internal overtravel trigger stop, trued barrel face, 11 degree forcing cone , 11 degree muzzle crown, Munden Gunfighter custom grips, Slixshot nipples, warnings removed from the barrel...there's a bit moreI just can't recall them right now.

I started doing the mods before the gun went into price orbit. The ROA isn't modeled after any historic revolver that I know of. It sure isn't now.

I shoot 210 BigLube HP bullets out of it with all the kaboom that Triple 7 can muster, about 45 grains. The gun is an absolute joy to shoot. I bought the BigLube 210gr mold and then had Hollow Point Mold Service make it drop big freakin' HP's. I did this for the obvious reason but also so I could use the HP hole and a custom tip to center it perfectly on my reloading stand. It now pushes the bullet perfectly down into the cylinder perfectly, easily and quickly every time. I thought about doing this to one of the rams I have for the ROA but I never load on the gun. It's too much of a pain.

I only wish they weren't worth so much as I would have it finished in Black Nitride. I think it would look awesome in the deep polished black. I'm not a true fan of stainless steel look. However, doing that I believe would kill whatever value the gun has left compared to an OEM ROA.

209442

[45 Dragoon]

Nice ROA AbitNutz!!!

Mike

[nekshot]

Hey Abit, nice looking gun! how does it shoot with(accuracy) your boolit?

[KCSO]

The biggest thng is getting the innards right. A lot of the Itie guns are either soft or poorly fitted or both. I tend to fit Uberti parts when I can as they have proven to be the best. the other end of the spectrum would be the ASM's, with Pietta in between. The old Belgian made 1860 were pretty darn good out of the box albeit with heavy triggers.

Here is a list of a just done conversion for a customer on a Pietta.
The gun was totally disassembled and a new locking bolt fitted and timed for full lock up.
A new hand and spring was fitted so that at full cock there was no play in the cylinder.
The barrel was lapped and crowned dead square and lightly champhered.
The sight notch was milled square and a little deeper to mate up with the front sight.
The hammer was trimmed to hit the frame before it hit the nipple and the nipples were replaced.
The trigger was honed to a 3# let off.
The frame was milled to a full round butt configuration and the stocks recut to match and refinished to a gloss finish.
A quick release base pin retainer was fitted.
The whole gun was then reblued.

One item in there needs comment as all of the replica's have this wrong. You should never had battered nipples as the hammer should bottom on the frame before it actually touches the nipple. This takes carefull hand fitting. I first noticed this when I had to clean up a pretty mint original. The hammer face stopped just shy of the nipples and the hammer face showed no indents but it was still 100% reliable.
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[KCSO]

209499Here is a conversion prior to blueing.

[texassako]

209499Here is a conversion prior to blueing.

Nice! Looks like one of my antique bull dog revolvers, especially with the round butt. Now, about the hammer bottoming on the frame. Does it eventually wear its way to striking the nipples?

[KCSO]

Not that I can see as the frame contact is way more than hammer nose to nipple, Most of the ones I have fitted only have maybe a thousand rounds or less. As a side note in the other direction I had a COLT as in New Colt parts by Uberti finished by H and R in USA that had the frame so poorly finished that the hammer wouldn't even come close to the caps. We found the shipping instruction in the box under the foam from Uberti to H and R for finish. So much for the extra dollars for a COLT Colt.

[AbitNutz]

Hey Abit, nice looking gun! how does it shoot with(accuracy) your boolit?

This is at 25 yards....45gr of Triple Seven, 200gr BigLube Hollow Point, RWS cap, soft leasd, no leading....lots of smoke and recoil. Since then I've drifted the front sight a bit and it's dead on now. 209534

[AbitNutz]

Nice ROA AbitNutz!!!

Mike

You should know! Works great too!

[nekshot]

Wow, thats a good shooting gun. Are you gonna carry it concealed? (just joking!!)

[texassako]

I only wish they weren't worth so much as I would have it finished in Black Nitride. I think it would look awesome in the deep polished black. I'm not a true fan of stainless steel look. However, doing that I believe would kill whatever value the gun has left compared to an OEM ROA.

I had to look that process up, and it looks interesting. It says it makes the steel harder, some say all the way through the parts. Harder usually means brittle as well, and I wonder if this would be an issue in something not originally designed for the treatment? Wouldn't have to worry about the soft steel of an Italian BP replica anymore with that treatment, just be sure to do any work on it beforehand. Corrosion resistant as well looks like.

[AbitNutz]

I had to look that process up, and it looks interesting. It says it makes the steel harder, some say all the way through the parts. Harder usually means brittle as well, and I wonder if this would be an issue in something not originally designed for the treatment? Wouldn't have to worry about the soft steel of an Italian BP replica anymore with that treatment, just be sure to do any work on it beforehand. Corrosion resistant as well looks like.

I've done more than a few guns in "Black Nitride". They all turn out killer. In my opinion, take that for what it's worth, it's the best finish you can put on a firearm, easpecially a stainless steel firearm. I'm not a gigantic fan of shiny stainless guns. Black Nitride is the trade name that is most common. It's Melonite or Tenifer or a bunch of other ones. Most are done by H&R Metal Processing up in Akron Ohio. They're a family owned business and are good folks that humor nutz like me that wander in with disassembled 1zies and 2zies. They're used to rolling whole racks of barrels, frames and major parts groups into their processing room.

I can't say enough good things about the company or Black Nitride. I have a Uberti stainless 1858 Remington that is on the soft side. I'm going to have it done along with a couple of rifle barrels pretty soon. We'll see if it puts some starch in its alloy.

[ulav8r]

Worked at an Emerson motor plant for a few years. Some of our shafts were Melonite treated. The surface was very hard, but the hardness was less than .002 inches deep.

[AbitNutz]

I think in some applications it may go deeper because if they screw it up they turn the barrel into a noodle....

[Clark]

209878

I have a Colt made in 1859 that has very little of the grips left. It was all rust when I bought it. I have new grips made of Cherry that will take a lot of fitting. I have a whole bag of replacement parts to get it running again.

[AbitNutz]

Man, there's nothing like the real thing.

[Clark]

I ordered and received some replacement parts.
Yesterday I took the 1849 colt pocket revolver apart. It was made in 1859, covered in rust, and not working.


211656
The trigger spring / bolt spring was broken.
The new trigger spring was too long and square.
I ground it down.

211652
The hand was missing when I took the revolver apart.
The pin on the new hand is 0.131"
The hole in the old trigger is 0.128"

211653

I drilled out the hammer with a 0.136" drill.
The hole is now 0.134".
0.134" -0.128" = 0.006" clearance -> 5 degrees of wobble.
I guess I could have ground down a drill in diameter, but I was moving at mach 3.
The hand is stuck in a narrow channel, and will not wobble.

211654

The trigger spring screw was too short to get started, so I made a spacer from Aluminum and clamped the spring down to get the screw started.







211655

The revolver will no longer do full cock.
Through experiments I can see the cause is the the new hand is too long in the vertical direction.
I can fool the revolver into cocking by getting between chambers so the top of the hand is not hitting the cylinder star.
I can then rotate the cylinder and fire normally. Not desirable with heavy bolt drag on the cylinder.

The replacement wedge screw is too short.

I need to:
Find another wedge screw
cut down the hand
fit the new cherry stock
Probably replace rusty nipples.

[Clark]

https://youtu.be/tthbf7i-Lgo

I was grinding on the new hand until I had the cylinder timed.

This may be the first time this revolver worked in 150 years.

[HangFireW8]

Very nice work.