Hornady FPB

[megasupermagnum]

I've been shooting this bullet for a few years in my muzzleloader, and both deer I shot them with died quickly, although I did notice the exit hole wasn't that big. They have proven to be fantastically accurate in multiple guns. This year has been different, and we actually lost deer. The first was a broadside at 45 yards, the buck ran all wobbly about 150 yards, then disappeared into the woods. We tracked for hours that night, it didn't start bleeding for about 50 yards, then it was just a drip here and there until it stopped. We came back the next day, looked some more, but never did find the deer. The next was a doe, quartering towards, about 20 yards. We looked for hours again, but never found a single drop of blood. The next day a buck stepped out, and was shot in nearly the same spot. Again no blood at all, but this time we found the body about 100 yards away. When gutted, it was hit in the left lung, and the bullet zipped right through with what looked like no expansion. Then tonight a doe was shot about 30 yards broadside, and again NO BLOOD. Realize we have had snow on the ground the whole time. Finally we found blood about 75 yards away, and managed to follow the trail easy enough. We have decided to leave it until morning, and fingers crossed we find it. I did not shoot any this year, and now that I think back, the two I've shot with FPB's didn't bleed either. The one was a double lung that died quickly, and the other blew its heart up. Obviously anything less than a perfect shot is BAD news with these. Has anyone else had problems with these expanding? The first buck was shot with 150 grains of 777, if that's not enough velocity to open up, nothing is.

[triggerhappy243]

what is a FPB?

[Moleman-]

Neat, didn't know they made them. https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/browse/50-cal-350gr-fpb#!/ If they're not performing well for you I'd change bullets. I've had good luck with other Hornady bullets in sabots like the XTP, and flex tips. Here's a 265ftx that penetrated about 36" of a buck earlier this season from a rifle at about 2150fps muzzle velocity. I'm using them in my inline at around 2200fps.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm definitely switching next year. I've been casting Lee REAL's, but they don't shoot well at all in my gun, but that's for another day. I just figured I'd pass this along if anyone was looking into the FPB's. I'm going to write an email to Hornady as well, as they clearly don't expand at 900+ fps as they claim.

[wgr]

what rifle are you shooting? if you are trying real boolits then I would try a maxi ball over about 90 grains of 777.

[megasupermagnum]

I have a whole other thread about the REAL's.

Did not find the doe today. This is a warning to hunters, Hornady FPB's are like shooting FMJ. No expansion at all.

[rodwha]

I've read great things about the Thor bullets.

https://www.thorbullets.com/

I've often wondered about the FPB's because of the high BC's but just don't care for the price tag as I like to shoot often. That would get expensive fast as I'm known for making a day out of range days.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't care for the cost of any muzzleloader bullets. Ideally I will find a cast full bore conical that will shoot well, although I'm sure a cast bullet in a sabot will work well. Thor's are just over the top expensive.

[largom]

I shoot the Hornady XTP 250 gr.. same as Thompson Center Shockwave. Dozens of Deer and none went over 30 yds.

[megasupermagnum]

Again, thank you, but not looking for suggestions.

These hornady FPB's are the only bullet I've ever used that a deer got away with a good shot. Obviously a deer is going down with a double lung, heart, spine, or other vital hit, but the only recovered deer was hit in a single lung after running some distance. I personally have not had a deer go more than 30 yards after a hit. Even deer gutshot with a shotgun slug usually lie down less than 100 yards away. For deer to be going as far as they are on lung hits is terrible, terrible performance. You can argue that the ones that we didn't find were bad shots, and they were, but a .50 bullet should not be wounding deer if hit anywhere in chest cavity. Every single one of us will be switching bullets next year.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

A 1/2" hole should kill very well regardless of it expanding or not. I use patched round balls these days. A picture of the shot placement would be awesome if you have one. The thor is a beast of a bullet, I like the 250gr version. It opens up to just under 1" diameter on game we've hit and recovered the bullet on.

Knowing what state you are from would also help us greatly on recommending a bullet. Some do not allow sabots, etc.

[megasupermagnum]

I am from Minnesota, but prefer full bore bullets. I am not looking for a recommendation, simply passing along some hard earned info on Hornady FPB bullets. If I had recovered those deer, I wouldn't have posted this. Where I hunt, it's so thick, you will never find a deer without a blood trail. I'm sure those deer died at some point, but without any way to find them, I just hope it was quick. That's the problem, even if a .50 FMJ kills them, they leave no blood.

[phonejack]

I use the xtphp's . Never had one go more than 30 yards. Good expansion

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

so no recovered deer to explain the issue? I know folks that use them on elk with zero issues and with blood trails. No recovered deer makes me thing they are either poorly placed shots or just flat out misses.

[megasupermagnum]

We recovered one, a buck. It was a quartering shot, and the bullet entered just inside of the front shoulder, hit the lung about an inch from the back, went through the guts, then exited out the belly. That deer ran at least 100 yards. We only found it because it had collapsed in an open area, and the little blood there was, was just droplets. The deer I tracked this morning, was shot yesterday. I was not there, but there was a bunch of snow on the ground, and not a single drop of blood at the shot. This was an easy 20 yard shot in the open. After about 50 yards, it started to trickle blood. I followed it for at least 500 yards before loosing the trail in deep brush. Making matters worse, it had snowed last night making it very hard to see the blood from the night before.

These deer were not shot by me, so I can't say for certain were the shot hit. I have shot 2 deer with these in the past, and looking back, they did not cause that much damage. I never lost a deer, because I hit them perfectly. Still, I've had to track down my share of bad hits, mostly shotgun slugs, but a deer gut shot with a shotgun slug is not usually going 500 yards, and there is a heck of a blood trail to follow. I've seen deer hit above the spine, or just grazed the ribs, but we are talking a 20 yard shot here, and an experienced hunter, sitting in a blind. Are they bad shots? Well, they certainly weren't double lung or heart hits. But we are talking just this year, 4 deer shot by 3 hunters, and the longest shot being 45 yards. After loosing the deer they all went back to the range and were still perfectly sighted. We all sighted in the week before, and the guns were fouled, so no oily bore shots. I feel bad myself because I talked all these guys (family members) into using these after having good luck myself.

[triggerhappy243]

what is a FPB?


i had to look it up. another polymer tip bullet. the maker says expantion between 800 and 2000 fps. Perhaps the shots were faster than 2000?

[rodwha]

I'm wondering, with the relatively short distances, if the velocities weren't higher than intended for these projectiles causing them to self destruct. And with their aerodynamic design it wouldn't give much of an entrance hole compared to the diameter, and if it exploded inside and left no exit there wouldn't be a good blood trail.

I haven't read any bad experi ices with Lee REALs concerning anything but getting them to shoot, but still prefer a big meplat just because of the damage it creates regardless of expansion. I've been considering having my molds modified to widen that meplat.

I understand from the other thread that you can't seem to get the REALs to shoot well for you. I'd look into the Lee .500 pistol bullet paper patched as I believe you have a fast twist if I recall. Seems it has worked quite for those who have tried it (a dozen maybe?).

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Clipped a lung and went into the stomach. Even with a centerfire, that's not a good thing for a good blood trail to follow. You're lucky he only went 100 yards with one lung. They normally go much further with those kind of shots. I don' think its the bullets failing to be honest. These are a very hard lead alloy mix like the Nosler ballistic tip sabots. These bullets blowing up on deer would be a very very impossible feat due to their design.

[megasupermagnum]

I've got a handful of ideas on how to get my rifle to shoot full bore cast bullets well. I like the idea of paper patching, but every time I look into it I just do not want to do that amount of tedious work. First I'm going to re-crown my barrel without the QLA muzzle. Then I'm going to try REAL's and Maxi balls again.

I REALLY doubt the bullets are coming apart in the deer. The one deer we recovered showed zero expansion. A tiny hole going in, and a slightly bigger hole going out. The two deer I shot with them showed about the same thing. Even the heart shot, it was just a hole through the heart. The one hunter is shooting 150 grain pellets of 777, which should be pushing them close to 2000 fps at the muzzle. He shot the first buck at 45 yards, and the bullet was well below 2000 fps by then. My dad shoots with 100 grain 777 pellets, and he shot two of the deer. I've been shooting 90 grains of Blackhorn 209.

[megasupermagnum]

Where I hunt, rifles are not allowed. You can use single shot handguns chambered in rifle cartridges, and I've seen enough deer shot with those. A T/C encore in 7mm-08 sends a 140 grain bullet at something like 2700 fps. It can ruin a lot of meat if you are not careful, but any hit in the chest leaves the lungs as a jelly mess. My family doesn't loose a lot of deer. Actually I only remember one other time in 10 years, and that was for sure a bad shot. I've made poor shots myself, but I've always found them. For a deer to run like that with a hit in a lung is bogus in my experience, that deer most likely would have dropped in it's tracks if it was a big shotgun slug, and surely and expanding rifle bullet would have done a ton of damage. A bullet either needs to A. cut a path (Ex. semi wadcutter/large meplat) or B. expand. These Hornady FPB's do neither. Perfect shots kill, but hunting isn't perfect.

[triggerhappy243]

nowhere in this post do i see the barrel twist or bullet dia. mentioned. (sabot or bullet engraved.) I have been tinkering all year with t/c maxi-balls with my renegade. tweeking the lead alloy for a good fit. I will say this.............. these shoot better if you do not use max loads. Pictured is a 3 shot group at 100 yards with a t/c maxi-ball. Not bad for an older guy.

[megasupermagnum]

These are Hornady FPB bullets. They are a j-word, full bore conical. I'm not aware that they make them in anything but .50. I guess I should have mentioned these are the 350 grain version. The 300 grain ones never shot nearly as well. The twist rate is irrelevant, this thread is nothing more than a warning to hunter that these bullets do not perform as advertised.

[triggerhappy243]

These are Hornady FPB bullets. They are a j-word, full bore conical. I'm not aware that they make them in anything but .50. I guess I should have mentioned these are the 350 grain version. The 300 grain ones never shot nearly as well. The twist rate is irrelevant, this thread is nothing more than a warning to hunter that these bullets do not perform as advertised.

i understand that they are a lame duck. I never had faith in these types in muzzle loaders. good old fashioned lead for me.

[M-Tecs]

My hunting partner uses the Hornady FPB. I was with him when he shot 3 of the last 4 deer and I helped him skin and cut up the 4th. I was impressed with their performance.

[vzerone]

I think you just had a fluke with those Hornady bullets and like Minuteshaver said things happen that weren't the bullets fault.

I've always used the TC Max-ball 370 grains with excellent results. Never had a deer run with them they just piled up, but I was pickly about choosing my shots. I don't agree with pushing them faster makes them less accurate. The accuracy I got out of more then one rifle was excellent. The rifles I've had had a wide variation in twists and it didn't show up for me on the target that was any better then other.

[megasupermagnum]

Placement is key, no results can be garunteed by anything smaller them 20mm or 50 bmg.

This is the time of year the fat layer is the thickest on deer, its very common for them to be self sealing blood tanks when hit. Even a 243 with 100 grain psp wont leave much blood trail.
Heck as far as them going long distance with a good hit, well I have had far to many super good hits, ie no lungs at all left in deer, go 3-400 yards easily.

3-400 yards with lung hits is a bullet failure! Until these, I've NEVER, and nobody I know has ever had that happen. I've never even heard of such a thing with a bow.

@M-Tecs, were you seeing good expansion? The deer I've shot left scarcely more than a pinhole going in, lungs just had a small hole in them, and the exit hole was maybe dime size. Even the heart shot, the heart was split open, but I remember thinking how lackluster it seemed.

I hope people have been having better luck than us, wounding deer makes me sick. I'd rather break my own leg.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

from the sound of the one you recovered, only one lung was hit. A 1/2" diameter is much more than a pin hole. Dime size exit hole is not a failure either.

My nephew this year used a 180gr soft point 7.62x54 on a small buck. He destroyed both lungs and the heart was split in half, That deer still still made in 30-40 yards. Dead deer can cover a lot of ground, especially when they have one lung left.

Shot placement is the #1 issue with the problems you guys have had, or at least that is the #1 suspect on our list of why you can not drop a simple deer with a 350gr conical.

[triggerhappy243]

it was said that possibly the large quantity of fat in the deer. possibly all this fat did plug up the wound channel. there fore no blood trail.

[megasupermagnum]

The bullet may be .50, but acting like a FMJ, they leave just a pinhole. 30-40 yards is good, but a farcry from the 500+ we had. You can play the what if game forever, but the fact remains that these Hornady FPB's provided dismal performance. Yeah, you can kill a deer with a FMJ 223 with a good hit too. I've seen a lot of deer killed, and I've never seen anything like this. I've seen multiple deer that were shot through the guts, and didn't even hit the lungs at all. Those deer went a short ways and laid down. When we walked up to them an hour later, they were dead. Trust me THESE HORNADY FPB BULLETS WOUND DEER. I love hornady, but I will never recomend these bullets again.

[triggerhappy243]

Keeping in mind, i do not follow inline's performance history. But I hear a lot of "LACK OF EXPANSION" with these types of bullets if they do not hit any bone. Much along the lines of a stab wound with a knife.

jon, these fpb's weigh twice what your prb's weigh. to the energy( Knock down) theory, it holds an invalid argument. Shot placement is not the issue here. There is more to this then we all know. I can not beleive these rifles were that far off at such a close range. even with scopes. FMJ do not expand............. period. These kinds of bullets seem to mimmick that. HOT KNIFE THRU BUTTER.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I know plenty of folks that have killed deer AND elk with zero issues while using these bullets. We already know that only one lung was hit and the stomach. Thats shot placement.

[megasupermagnum]

Exactly. Speaking of scopes, this was the first year MN allowed them to everyone. My dad and myself mounted them right away. My dad is getting older, and it gets hard to focus on an animal and the sights at the same time. I just prefer low power scopes myself. My uncle prefers open sights, and he is good at it. He was shooting 3" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. My dad isn't quite as good, but we are talking 20 yards from a man who has been hunting since he was a teenager. I never liked relying on expanding bullets, I use big SWC's for my carry handgun myself. A wadcutter design cuts a bore size hole in, and either tumbles, or if soft, expands. These FPB's are a hot knife through butter.

[megasupermagnum]

I know plenty of folks that have killed deer AND elk with zero issues while using these bullets. We already know that only one lung was hit and the stomach. Thats shot placement.

Are you kidding me? A lung was hit, and you blame shot placement? I suppose an ethical hunter would only shoot for the brain. I'm one of the hunters who have killed deer with these without issue, but that doesn't make them good. It just means I made great shots. I can't believe the resistance to information I am sharing, just so others don't have to loose animals. Look at the pictures of those 265 grain flex tips on the other page. If those had been what we were shooting, that buck would have collapsed in 30 yards, and left a blood trail.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

you need to own up to the fact that the deer you did recover, was not hit with great shot placement.

ive gone through the same story with powerbelts. Weeeee, we shot a deer with a powerbelt and blew up as soon as it hit the hair! weeeeeee, it didnt expand!

Did you find the deer? No.... really? How you know what the bullet did if you couldnt find the deer?

This buck was shot at 40 yards with the FPB.
209387

This one as well
209388

209389

As you can see, those are just a few examples of what bullets do when they are actually hit in the vitals. I don't mean to give you a hard time over it, but an FPB not being able to kill a deer quickly and humanly? I don't think so. The only thing I dont like is how hard they are to load.

[megasupermagnum]

Wow, I've had nosebleeds worse than those deer. If anything that supports my theory. I'm going to stop now. I just hope you don't kick yourself too much the first time you don't place a bullet perfectly.

[mooman76]

Try an over powder wad with the REALs. That seems to help allot for most people. Don't push them real hard either or they strip the rifling.

[M-Tecs]

@M-Tecs, were you seeing good expansion? The deer I've shot left scarcely more than a pinhole going in, lungs just had a small hole in them, and the exit hole was maybe dime size. Even the heart shot, the heart was split open, but I remember thinking how lackluster it seemed.


Expansion was inline with any of the various bullets in that caliber and velocity class that I have personally taken deer with. Very little blood shot meat compared to 7mm mag but very much inline with my 45/70 using 405 Remington bulk jacked bullets at about 1,800 fps.

I have only killed 20 or 25 deer with 45 cal and larger but while very effective the wound channels look unimpressive compared to high velocity jacketed. The term you can eat right up to the whole comes to mind.