577 snider reloading question

[justashooter]

so i have this egyptian snider smoothbore in 577 chambering. i have some 24 gauge plastic shells on order and have calipered the bore at .589-.590. i am looking for a .585 round ball mould and came across the .585 REAL mould. assuming black or triple 7 or unique powder, and the bullet thumb loaded into the shotshell case and topped with grease if black or triple 7, comments on using a .585 REAL in a .589 bore? assuming unique or green dot and no grease, comments? i am aware that black or trip 7 will build up in bore, and become problematic in rifled guns. this is smoothbore, so a size for size seems good to me. ****ed old gun with shotgun type barrel assembled by some egyptian dude, married to outdated english made breach and lockset.

also have .600 round ball mould but am hearing that this diameter in case may not chamber (depends on gun). thoughts on pushing a .600 ball thru a .590 barrel? wanted to use a ball as this is lower weight than a conical, but cannot find a .585 mould and think a .575 would be loose till you get 3-4 fouling shots with black, and forever loose with shotgun powders...so all over the place.

i am also toying with the idea of using shotcups and .575 minnie bullets.

[curator]

The .600 round ball may not fit or chamber in your Snider. It won't chamber in my gun when seated in a 24 gauge shotshell, It will in a all-brass shell however. In that case it is safe to shoot as it will swage down fine upon firing. The REAL bulley may fit and fire but will not give any kind of accuracy. I have had moderate success loading .575 round balls in cut-down 24 gauge plastic shells by patching them with lubed .016 pillow ticking and carefully trimming the excess with scissors. They make a nice tight fit and actually shoot with reasonable accuracy. My Snider is rifled but the bore is heavily worn. 60 grains of FFg black powder is a nice mild load capable of hitting a milk jug at 25 yards. The lubed patch helps a lot by keeping fouling down to a minimum.

[yamahahn]

Curator,
Can you show pictures of your .575 balls patched in brass cases ?

thanx

[curator]

I'll have to find them in my shop (separate building from the house) and photograph them for you. It may take a day or two, but can do. I have used this technique for 60 caliber balls in a rifled 20 gauge shotgun and also .715 round balls in a rifled 12 gauge shotgun. It works quite well and shoots much better than hollow base slugs in plastic shot sleeves.

[Outpost75]

My buddy in Italy loads a .600 round pure lead ball in cut-down 24-ga. all-brass cases with 60 grains of 2Fg and a fiber wad column, lubricated with lard.

209449 209450209451209452

[justashooter]

so the best option might to be to cut the brass cases to whatever length will chamber and use them unsized. i should prolly cast the chamber to see where it's taper begins. plastics cut to 2" are a tight fit even without a ball in this particular chamber.

[curator]

Curator,
Can you show pictures of your .575 balls patched in brass cases ?

thanx

OK, I had some difficulty getting this to load but apparently re-sizing the image helped. Cases are 24 gauge brass shotshells cut to 1.90. Two different loads both with 60 grains of OE 1.5Fg black powder and 573 round balls patched with pillow ticking material (0.015") Tow are not lubed (light color) and two are lubed with Lee Liquid Alox after loading (dark color) The LLA seeps into the patch material and lubricated the area that is in contact with the bore.
209467

[yamahahn]

Curator,
Thank You for the picture..... It prompts more questions though.
What twist rifling do you shoot these thru ? And how did you
establish the length of the brass compared to chamber length ????

[curator]

Brass cut to 1.90" to match chamber length (1.95) determined by chamber cast with cerosafe alloy. I have two Sniders, one 2-band rifle with 1 in 48" twist and one 3-band rifle with the standard 1 in 72" twist. Both of them have a .595 groove diameter at the chamber end. Lots of good Snider information here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/snider-enfield-forum-f2/?sid=b9dfb39aefbbf0f6440f1cf37e1aeb0d

[curator]

Brass cut to 1.90" to match chamber length (1.95) determined by chamber cast with cerosafe alloy. I have two Sniders, one 2-band rifle with 1 in 48" twist and one 3-band rifle with the standard 1 in 72" twist. Both of them have a .595 groove diameter at the chamber end. Lots of good Snider information here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/snider-enfield-forum-f2/?sid=b9dfb39aefbbf0f6440f1cf37e1aeb0d

[Buckshot]

..............I have a couple .577 Sniders. One is a 3 band rifle. The other was sent to me by a friend who was a retired captain from the RCMP, and lived in Winnipeg. It was complete except for the screw that held the hammer to the tumbler.

http://www.fototime.com/35572699B1D8361/standard.jpg

It was a cut down rifle, and came complete with a hack sawed off barrel that was never recrowned. I set it up in the lathe to crown and found the bore was not concentric with the barrel OD. Apparently a 'Wondering bore' was a common enough occurrence. How I got that job done is another story. I have a fairly extensive inventory of 58 caliber moulds, and I was magnificently successful in not being able to get much of any kind of accuracy.

Having a couple articles dealing with the Snider, one was authored by a Canadian participant (retired military officer) in their national matches with the Snider, and the Martini. I too decided to use a Lee .600" RB. I still wasn't getting much usable accuracy.

http://www.fototime.com/81B27EA5C8B88C9/standard.jpg

On the right is obviously the RB load. The alloy wasn't quite as hard as WW alloy.

http://www.fototime.com/9C9D7CD324FB924/standard.jpg

577 Snider carbine @ 50 yards. Group 1.875". .60" Lee RB cast of about WW alloy over .080" cardwad and a .125" lube disc. 1475 fps. The powder was Unique, but I'm not going to list the charge as I cannot at this time find the source to document it's authenticity (but I have it somewhere :-) I did not recall my trying this RB over a dose of BP, so went and checked my range book for the Snider. Unable to find a reference for it's use with BP I'd have to say that I haven't tried it yet.

A few years ago I made myself a swage die to produce a conical HB Minie' going .590" in OD, and used the Lee 58 cal Target Minie' as the donor slug:

http://www.fototime.com/B35265B203A27EA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7BAE9A1545DD0FC/standard.jpg

LEFT: is the donor entering the die, and the RIGHT: is the result as ejected. They did on fact swage to .590". In trying them over BP these also did not perform as hoped. While not as wild as others, they pretty much used up the 8" black bull at 50 yards. I have to admit that I've owned the 3 band rifle for quite a few years, I have yet to fire it. Possibly it might fair better with it's longer barrel? If I ever have the time (and can remember when I do) that I should make a .600" swage die, or a mould to drop a .600" short Minie'.

..................Buckshot

[justashooter]

curator,

did you size your cut down 24 gauge brass shells? if not, your chamber must not be original, being devoid of taper.

[curator]

curator,

did you size your cut down 24 gauge brass shells? if not, your chamber must not be original, being devoid of taper.

Justashooter: Yes--"Brass cut to 1.90" to match chamber length (1.95) determined by chamber cast with cerosafe alloy." Once cut to length, I annealed the case mouths and sized them in a Lee .577 Snider full length size die. Once fire-formed, I left them unsized and simply reloaded them. I do designate brass for specific guns and keep them seperate so they are only used in that particular gun. With many single shot black powder cartridges, not sizing allows for very long case life.