Reloading for a Ruger#1-45/70

[Dogmann]

I'm gonna reload for my Ruger #1 45/70. Target and heavy hunting loads. My question do I need a heavy crimp on the bullets?

[NSB]

You don't need any crimp on a single shot rifle.

[Wayne Smith]

"Heavy hunting loads" - no, you need a PAST pad for your shoulder!

[EDG]

No crimp is needed. Heavy loads are not needed either. The most accurate ammo uses 500 grain bullets and even at black powder velocity will beat you to death in a #1.
You will be better off starting with 300 grain plinking loads at .22LR speeds.

[lucifers]

The only time you need a crimp in a single shot is for very light bullets with very slow burning powder to ensure a good light off before the bullet leaves the case.

In a SS 45-70 ---- never.

My "heavy" load, 300 gr TSX and 4198 will kick the snot out of you. Much prefer 300 gr boolit and trail boss.

[KenH]

Other folks are saying "no crimp", but for hunting loads that get bumped around I'd think a light crimp to make sure the bullet stays in place while being hauled around on hunting trips would be a good idea. "IF" you really need full #1 Ruger loads in 45-70 you must be hunting some BIG dangerous animals! Cape Buffalo?

[scattershot]

One of the more enjoyable discoveries of my life thus far is that you don’t need to run a 45/70 at full throttle all the time. I have a #1 in that chambering, and it will kick you into next week with heavy loads. BP velocities or less for general shooting, and 300 grain JHP for hunting is all that’s required, unless you will be hunting mastodons or something. The original black powder loading was designed to shoot through a horse at 200 yards, and many a buffalo was dispatched with it.

[Dogmann]

I'd like to load some big flat 400+grain meplate monsters!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Heavy crimp ...Nope.

But, while others say no crimp, and that can be true, you may still need to use a crimp die to remove the Flare in the case mouth, depending on how large of a flare you put on the case mouth for reliable seating of a boolit. Doing that, so you have easy and reliable chambering of the loaded round...cause if you are hunting something that needs a "heavy hunting load" in a 45-70, then you don't want to be fumbling around trying to reload that Number One with ammo that is difficult to chamber, while a grizzly is bearing down on you, LOL.
Good Luck.

[Dogmann]

This is a custom Ruger number 1... heavier D weight barrel

[Wayne Smith]

It will still hurt with large loads. My introduction to the caliber was with a Trapdoor that I loaded for a friend - Lyman 457125 520gr and a full case compressed ffg. I bought a PAST pad after the first exursion! I have a Lee group buy mold (old) that is a 420 gr large meplat boolit. PM me if you would like a few examples. It is a plain base boolit - i.e. No gas check.

[Dogmann]

Is a gas check needed?

[webfoot10]

Try 15 grs Unique with a bit of crumbled toilet paper to hold the powder against
the primer and a 420 gr lee cast bullet unsized lubed with 50/50 mix of pure
lard and beeswax. I shoot these in a H&R 45/70. Accurate and hardly any recoil.
About 12-1300 fps. This load has killed a lot of deer. The kids in WV all fight over
who will use the rifle.

[15meter]

There is a thread out there with mousefart loads, Lyman 457122??? and Clays powder. For grins look it up and try some. 500 FPS if I remember correctly. Used to shoot these from a Number 3. You could hear the dingers great.

I think they are referred to as "whisper loads" in the article.

[kaiser]

I bought a Browning 1885 many years ago after a friend of mine bought a "Traditional" 1885 model and I shot it "off the bench" - it's metal butt plate made a big impression on me. I made sure mine had a recoil pad! Now, it's is "comfortable" with factory speed 300gr loads and fun with BP speeds and loads a couple of hundred feet a second faster; however, it is "brutal" off the bench with 500gr loads around 1600fps and not much fun with 400gr loads at faster than the "original" loading. Thing is, you don't gain a whole lot by upping the velocity, for BP loads with its "big" diameter penetrates from just about any "angle" on most animals (in the Americas) and its "loopy" trajectory is not going to get much "flatter" by you taking more recoil to the "chops". Of course if you are going after "Cape Buffalo", you may want to pack in the most powder you can under the heaviest bullet that it will shoot accurately, and shoot to "break down" the animal before it "stomps" you. I believe there is a company (Garrett) that puts together ammo for such a purpose. I mostly load for "mean ol" targets and the occasional Whitetail deer. I do use a Lee Factory Crimp to make sure the "flare" does not impede chambering the cartridge and seldom use a "gas check" unless I'm going to drive a "soft" slug near its max designed pressure or velocity. My rifle weighs 8 1/4#, which determines (for me, at least) what velocity I reload to; a Ruger No. 1 is at least a pound lighter. I've owned several No. 1's in various calibers and configurations, but none in a 45/70, I would expect its shorter BBL (mine a 28") to yield a bit slower velocities for the powder charge and recoil comparatively more. The No. 1's are about as stout a action as can be had this side of a bolt, but will task a shooter's recoil tolerance when exploring maximum charges in most "magnum" chambers (45/70 included). My .02.

[Wayne Smith]

None of my five molds for the 45-70 are gc molds, so l'd say, no, gcs are not needed. I'm currently shooting an Encore Katadin, nice stock but recoils almost straight up. Light, short, and I load the Lyman Gould 457122 in it to about 1200 and the 420 to about the same speed.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I have quite a different view on this "no crimp needed" issue.

I crimp everything I load. So does every manufacturer of Brass Cased Ammunition. Every factory loaded round no matter what it is used in is crimped.

There must be some good reason for this?

On a Cast Boolit the crimp serves several purposes.

Holds the boolit in place during handling and recoil, and prevents boolit setback during chambering. Also promotes chambering by removing the step between the Boolit and the Case Mouth.

Allows the powder charge to burn longer before the boolit starts to move which builds pressure to a higher level which promotes cleaner burning. Most all powders have a given pressure they are designed to burn most efficiently at or above. This pressure provides the most complete burn of the charge. IE less unburned powder left behind.

Closes the case flare.

Seals the case mouth against contamination.

Here's the deal,,,

Crimping a cartridge case is not a big deal, it takes a few seconds. Whereas in a Single Shot Rifle some of the points above are non issues, the ones that are a big deal are Burning Efficiency and Consistency in Bullet Release. These both contribute to accuracy.

I consider Crimping to be a significant part of assembling good quality ammunition. Doesn't matter what it will be shot in.

My .02.

Randy

[white eagle]

I had a Ruger #1 in 45-70 and used to load heavy loads
I always crimped even in single shots more to do with ignition and burn
before launch than anything sold it and kept the Marlin wish now I would have
done the opposite but well hindsight ya know

[Char-Gar]

One of the more enjoyable discoveries of my life thus far is that you don’t need to run a 45/70 at full throttle all the time. I have a #1 in that chambering, and it will kick you into next week with heavy loads. BP velocities or less for general shooting, and 300 grain JHP for hunting is all that’s required, unless you will be hunting mastodons or something. The original black powder loading was designed to shoot through a horse at 200 yards, and many a buffalo was dispatched with it.

Every word, pure truth.

[DocSavage]

+1000 on heavy loads. Sat down one day and using the formula in the Lyman manual a standard weight No 1 with near 458 mag loads is somewhere in the 50 ft lbs of recoil or about the same in a safari grade bolt in 375 H&H. The No 1 I had the recoil pad was next to useless.

[Wayne Smith]

I remember reading that when the Army changed to the 405gr carbine load they had to use a crimp to hold the bullet in until the powder was burning. The 520gr bullet had enough weight to stay in place without a crimp. That's the only crimp I know that is required in the 45-70 single shot.

[EDG]

OK I have quite a different view on this "no crimp needed" issue.

I crimp everything I load. So does every manufacturer of Brass Cased Ammunition. Every factory loaded round no matter what it is used in is crimped.

There must be some good reason for this?

On a Cast Boolit the crimp serves several purposes.

Holds the boolit in place during handling and recoil, and prevents boolit setback during chambering. Also promotes chambering by removing the step between the Boolit and the Case Mouth.

Allows the powder charge to burn longer before the boolit starts to move which builds pressure to a higher level which promotes cleaner burning. Most all powders have a given pressure they are designed to burn most efficiently at or above. This pressure provides the most complete burn of the charge. IE less unburned powder left behind.

Closes the case flare.

Seals the case mouth against contamination.

Here's the deal,,,

Crimping a cartridge case is not a big deal, it takes a few seconds. Whereas in a Single Shot Rifle some of the points above are non issues, the ones that are a big deal are Burning Efficiency and Consistency in Bullet Release. These both contribute to accuracy.

I consider Crimping to be a significant part of assembling good quality ammunition. Doesn't matter what it will be shot in.

My .02.

Randy

Try actually shooting ammo with no crimp. It actually works just like ALL benchrest ammo.

[waco]

I'd like to load some big flat 400+grain meplate monsters!
209413

[DocSavage]

209413
I like the looks of that bullet, Store bought or home cast ? If home cast whose the block manufacturer.

[brass410]

Me like that chunky girl!!!! please do humour us more with info sir. Mould is it custom or factory? whats the weight of that fatty? I gotta find something like that!!!!

[waco]

I cast it myself. Accurate molds.http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405V-D.png

[waco]

210376
210377
42gr of IMR3031 behind this boolit. sized to .460" in my 1895 Marlin 45-70
5 shot groups at 50 yards. Boolits weigh right at 405gr. Lubed with Lars 2500+
These are running around 1400fps. Very easy on the shooter.

[44Blam]

How about this guy:
210389