Ordered a Russian Slug Mold today

[KrakenFan69]

Well, I've been debating for awhile now and finally said what the heck. Ordered the Russian Paradox Slug mold with 3 pins today. We'll see what I can do for accuracy without the tail wads but I sure hope to source some of those bad boys too. Hope Blood Trails connect comes through!

Kraken Fan #69


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[GoodOlBoy]

That looks like an interesting mold, I'll be interested in your results for certain!

GoodOlBoy

[KrakenFan69]

Not certain why I was so taken with this one. I think because it's so short looking in the pics. Still fairly beefy though.

Will post results for sure.

Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

Are you planning on shooting those in rifled gun or smoothbore?

Both that one and the Tusker clone are on my "like" list. I may pick one up.

What does that one weigh?

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

Longbow,

Smooth with and without a rifled choke. My primary interest is 3 Gun. 532, 536 or 615 depending on the pin used. Fatboys for sure. I'm near Brooks, Ab. When I get it I can spin some of each up and send them to you and you can check them out. Your results will likely carry more weight here anyway. lol


Kraken Fan #69

[copdills]

can't wait to hear the results , looking foward to it

[KrakenFan69]

Seller got back to me today. Sounds like it may not make it here before The Jolly Fat Man does. Oh Well, at least I'll have plenty to do during the Christmas break!

Kraken Fan #69

[KrakenFan69]

Me waiting on my new mold. Checking the tracking number every 5 minutes.

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Kraken Fan #69

[KrakenFan69]

Well the 1,000 tail wads I ordered from TASWSNBN (The Auction Site Which Shall Not Be Named) a week AFTER I ordered this mold came in yesterday. Still waiting on the mold. *sigh*

Kraken Fan #69

[KrakenFan69]

Well my slug mold came in today. Spent the evening casting and prepping some test loads. Really excited to get to the range and start testing this. It's been -25 Deg C here lately so I may wait just a bit.

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Kraken Fan #69

[missionary5155]

Good morning
That looks like it should put a solid "Thwap" on what ever it connects with.
My interest with all these is how they stack up to the lowly old round ball. Same velocity, same diameter into the same material from the same barrel.
So far have not seen a lot of advantage especially from non-rifled barrels. But this one already has that beautiful flat nose ! What that would do to a corn cruncher ! Or a big piggy cast of WW air cooled plowed through the shoulders. That to me is the real tests.
But keep the info coming.
Mike in Peru

[longbow]

Mike:

Good to see your post.

I'm in total agreement... the lowly round ball does as well as most if not all slugs out to about 50 yards in my experience. I've had a couple of slugs that might edge it out by a bit but that would take some extensive testing to prove.

It is downrange some that I find the round ball starts to "drift" most likely picking up a random spin due to drag on imperfections. By about 70 yards things are getting a little iffy with regards to consistent accuracy (again, in my experience).

I would expect that a well designed and fabricated drag stabilized slug should produce similar or maybe better accuracy at 50 yards but it should hold up to 100 yards or further where the round ball becomes a little unpredictable.

These Russian tail wads are very similar to the Gualandi DGS wads which I found to distort some and while in the limited testing I did accuracy was pretty good to 50 yards I did also get keyholes.

The best accuracy I have had to date at 100 yards is from Federal Foster slugs (pre Tru-Ball) and AQ slugs from BPI. Both produced 6" +/- a bit groups at 100 yards. I have not succeeded at duplicating that accuracy with home cast and loaded slugs... not consistently or predictably anyway.

Out to 50 yards it is indeed hard to beat the good 'ol round ball for ease of casting and loading, and accuracy running 3" to 4" groups.

My interest is in achieving similar accuracy at 100 yards but I would be tickled with 6" to 8" consistent groups at 100 yards at this point. I am thinking the Russian Paradox slug, Gualandi DGS clone or my favourite the Tusker clone are all good candidates for good accuracy.

Actually when I started this quest, my goal was a "poor man's" double rifle using a side by 12 ga. but I have about given up there because not only is it difficult to get 6" to 8" groups at 100 yards from a single barrel shotgun but now you have two barrels to worry about and I have to think regulation would be difficult to impossible. I refer to the Kodiak rifles which have sights for each barrel. If the factories can't provide a decently regulated production rifle then my chances are lower. With the right skill set and appropriate tools, and a lot of time it could be done I am sure but... for most of us not likely.

I will be very interested to see upcoming field reports on the Russian slugs for sure. Currently I am back to half time work so toy budget is gone again but I can window shop for now.

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Howdy Longbow
I read you well on the 50-55 yard thresh hold. All our hunting when up north in still in river bottoms and brushy stuff so it does not affect us much. The round ball is our simple and completely reliable choice. 12 and 20 bore doubles give all we need.
It is just that desire to maybe find that one possible combination...
Bought a Pedersoli double 12 rifled ML last time north. That is the 100 yard solution. .735 RB plus 100 grains 3F. Been thinking about adapting the barrels to a FOX B frame. But the idea of destroying the Pedersoli... ouch.
Mike in Peru

[longbow]

Ooohhh! That would be nice! The Kodiak takes 0.715" patched balls I think. So the Pedersoli takes 0.735" Patched ball?

The problem with side by's is regulation. My understanding is the old CVA's and Kodiak double rifles use two sets of sights for that reason.

What about the Pedersoli?

Yeah, I'd leave that gun in one piece. You can buy barrels to put onto a side by receiver and it's been done and written up a few times on this site. It is a little beyond me to do though unfortunately.

I am currently thinking of rifled choke tubes possibly turned slightly offset so a lock nut or shims can be used to set rotation and so be used for regulation. Might just work if I ever get to it.

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

I got excited and loaded up 5 rounds in as many differnet powders and configurations. I didn't think about lube or Hi-Tek coating them as I have been running the Lyman in a CB111412 wad and those never touch the barrel. Think I'll have any trouble here with them unlubed? Should I pull them apart and rebuild? This wad style is new to me so I'm still learning. No great source for load data on them as of yet either so it's just kinda experimenting.

Kraken Fan #69

[tomme boy]

Longbow they are the Gualandi wads

[longbow]

KrakenFan69:

From what BT says the diameter of the slug should be under "most" smoothbore diameters by a few thou unless you have a tight smoothbore. I'm betting that for 5 shots you won't have any trouble.

So far I have not had any leading issues in my smoothbores shooting unlubed 0.735" RB's or soft lead Lyman Fosters though that one surprised me. The balls were hard and have little bore contact so that may be the answer there.

I'd say lube is a good idea but for a few slugs I wouldn't worry. Others may have different experience.

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

Repost form the FB group for those who aren't members.

Got out to do some quick and dirty testing on the Russian Paradox slug. Shot from a smoothbore Rem 870 Express Tactical with an Intermediate Choke. I was not shooting from a rest, it was cold and the results are not definitive. Point of aim is the green pain on the full sized USPSA Steel. That said, 30 gn of WSF makes you feel it a bit more than the same charge under a Lyman 525 Gn Slug. This slug weighs 532 gn, 581 with the attached wad. It was -3 deg C out an shots were fired at 30 yards. First pic is the only recovered wad and slug out of some 25. I missed the steel plate. The expansion upon hitting the berm is impressive. 40 Grains of Blue Dot was not bad on the shoulder but a bit worse of a group. I did pull some of these in the cold, as I said, far from definitive but does show promise. I'd like to try a burn rate between WSF and Blue Dot. HS-6 Maybe. I will be redoing these tests more effeciently when it warms up but thought I'd give some idea of what I'm seeing.

Kraken Fan #69

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[longbow]

Looking good so far!

I'd like to see those wads. Being the thrifty (read cheap) sort that I am I'm thinking I might be able to modify one of my home made moulds to take those wads.

I've got a slug I used turbo1889's design for (he posted the drawing) and all I'd have to do is change the HB pin to suit those wads. These slugs currently weigh 540 grs. as is but easy to change the pin and make other adjustments if necessary.

I've knurled up then sized back to 0.733" to suit my somewhat oversize bore since they cast exactly 0.729". I could lap or bore out the mould a few thou but easier to knurl slugs up then size back.

It would be interesting to try anyway and see how they compare to the Russian slugs.

Do you mind if I ask how much your mould was? I had seen those fairly inexpensive a while ago but I looked at that auction site on the weekend and buy now prices were as high as $105.00 US (shipping included). Some were more like $73.00 US but then another $20+ for shipping so about the same price in the end.

That seemed a bit high to me (but then I'm cheap).

Longbow

[tomme boy]

They are listed on the factory site for I think it was 2950 RUB or $52.33 for the exchange rate right now. I am not sure on shipping

[longbow]

That's a little better price than $105.00!

i'll keep my eyes peeled for good prices. I may just get a new mould yet. I've just had my work hours reduced though so we'll see how things go.

[KrakenFan69]

Good Lord I was robbed! I paid $130 CAD for it shipped. It did come with 3 pins. Yeah, Yeah, I'm a sucker. Longbow your voice carry's more weight than mine in this forum. Send me a pm with your address and I'll send you some slugs and wads to test and report back for the crew!

Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

I am sure your testing and range reports will be just fine.

There's lots of people here been doing lots more than I have especially lately! It has been far too long since I have been to the range for sure. Life gets in the way sometimes.

I do have a whack of slugs loaded and a few more to get loaded for a fun filled shoulder bruising mind numbing (as in brain rattling from recoil if you didn't get that) day at the range... I am hoping this coming weekend.

I certainly wouldn't mind trying some of those slugs but shipping in Canada is expensive and shipping lead is really expensive if you haven't checked with Canada Post. The last bunch of slugs I sent South for testing cost me $20.00 to send. A couple shipments like that and I may as well send the mould!

I can cross the border and send 50 lbs. (or is it 70 lbs.?) flat rate for $8.95 US. At least last time I checked yet I paid way more than that in Canada for about a pound and a half. Nowadays it isn't legal to take reloading supplies (like boolits/slugs) into the States to ship. Homeland Security is a concern and I do not want to be in their bad boy books!

What I would like are a few of those wads. I'd like to see if I can shape the HB cavity in my slug mould to suit those wads. If so I'd add them to the test plan and if successful I'd order a couple thousand wads.

Maybe we should talk. I'll PM you.

Thanks,
Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

So I got out last early this week and burned some powder. Of the 6 or so loads I tried this was the best result.
25 gn WSF with a fold crimp in a Fiocchi 2-3/4" hull. Shot at 0 Deg C in about a 20 MPH wind from a Rem 870 smoothbore using an Improved Cylinder choke. Distance is 50 yards. More testing will be done. 3.75" 3 shot group.

Kraken Fan #69

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[HiVelocity]

KrackenFan69-

Thats not a bad start, really. Have you tried any other powders? Longshot? Unique, maybe? Just thinking outside the box.

HV

[KrakenFan69]

Yes, Green Dot, WSF, Blue Dot, Longshot... I have several other powders too if I can get decent data for them. I'm kinda out in left field for load data. I have ordered the BPI slug manual and that should give me some DGS data that would be close to work from. I also just picked up some HS-6 and ordered some 4756 too. I will be testing more with a rifled choke tube as welll. My plan is to continue testing using Fiber wads and no Tail Wad this spring as well just for a lark. You never know till you try. The other (huge) hurdle to me will be repeatability. I don't care if I score a 1 MOA group at 100 if I can't repeat it.

Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

I just looked the Piledriver slug data out for another fellow so thought I might as well share it here too:

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This was my basis for loading most slugs over 500 grs. I used Fiocchi 2 3/4" hulls, Winchester 209 primers (mild) and built up wad column to suit the slug using plastic gas seal then card wads and/or nitro card wads. The first time around I was loading 0.735" RB's which weigh about 580 grs. I settled on 38 grs. of powder being as much fun as I wanted holding onto a light single shot. I can't recall how high I went in charge but I do not recall going over 40 grs. The pressures look a wee bit high for my liking anyway so I stuck with 36 grs. to 38 grs. depending.

I like Blue Dot and have had no problems with the failures to ignite in cold weather. I have to assume it is a problem as I have read it in several places but I've not had any problems. The only problem I have had is with light payloads... BD sometimes leaves a lot of unburned powder with light payloads and/or with lightish powder charges.

This data should be fine with your Paradox slugs in straight walled hulls.

Longbow

[tomme boy]

Anyone try steel powder yet? It was the replacement for BD having poor ignition.

[longbow]

Turbo1889 liked Steel and a few others here have used it. I haven't tried it yet but may if I find some.

A search should get you some info.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Anyone try steel powder yet? It was the replacement for BD having poor ignition.

I tried it once and caused a bulge in the barrel at the start of the choke. This was entirely my own fault as I used too little powder to ensure proper ignition (something that Turbo 1889 had warned against several times) Apparently the erratic ignition had just enough energy to push the slug along the barrel until it got stuck in the choke, the following shock-wave then hit the immobilized slug and caused a pressure build-up before the slug could start moving again. The shot felt and sounded perfectly normal and the slug hit the target, but the damage was done. After that I've been a little reluctant to use the slower powders with light slugs.

[oso]

Cap'n Morgan, how big is that bulge? Could it be that you just created a jug choke? Can you post a photo?

[tomme boy]

I load lite loads with steel shot and steel powder. One is a 1oz going 1700fps. BUT, you have to use federal mag 209 primers.

[wonderwolf]

Anybody try the expanding mold? I kind of like that design,seems versatile in loading and not dependent on special wads other than screwing them in. not sure how it would do plowing through harder targets. What is the factory website?

[Blood Trail]

I contacted my contact in Russia about the wads to place a 9,000 piece order. He said the injection mold machine is broken and is in the process of getting fixed. Should be done in a month or so.


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[longbow]

There's one of the main reasons I don't like single source or hard to obtain "stuff"! But what can you do? Look like nice moulds and the performance is good.

I'm still playing with the hot melt glue tail wads on my slugs (may be shooting today if I get time) but they are not suitable for full bore slugs unless paper patched. I've actually been thinking about the Russian slug moulds quite a bit bit that in mind but I'll do some more testing on my slugs. I'd also like to make a different core pin that would allow me to use those Russian tail wads on my slugs to see how that goes. When you get those tail wads I may order some to try if you are selling. I think they are okay to export from the States. Most gun related/reloading stuff isn't without an FFL.

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

Good to know there is progress BT!

I had heard from someone that I should cut the tail wads down so that the slug is resting on the "shelf" to be more support. I had not had any issues with badly mangled wads from the tests I have done but thought I'd try it. If it is better AND shorter, I'm all for it. Alas the two loads I tried with WSF and Blue Dot were WILDLY inaccurate. I believe it throws the center of gravity or some such off and the mini tail just can't do it's job. Anyway, the testing continues. I tried a couple of very light lights of HS-6 (I had no real idea where to start) and turns out you should remember to remove the Carlson's Coyote choke you were using to test Buckshot BEFORE lighting off a slug. Ugh. Thankfully the load was indeed VERY light and it just swagged into the choke requiring it to be drilled out to remove it. Slug loading continues. I have oppered a care package to Longbow of some of these slugs/wads due to his experience and proximity to me as well. Those should be going out next week and we may see some new fresh loads from that camp too!

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Amateur Tip: Always test all the slugs first and verify the Choke when changing loads!!

Amateur Casting Tip: The Facebook Group "Buck & Slug Reloaders", ran by our very own BloodTrail, helped me diagnose an issue with the Russian Molds this week. The pin was spinning and I was having issues removing the slugs from the pin. They recommended cleaning with a scotch bright pad and coating with graphite (some suggested the old stand by of smoking with a candle) to assist in releasing the slug. I had no graphite so I just used a pencil to rub along the pin a few times to coat it. Worked quite well. The biggest tip however was that the Russian molds are designed so that when you remove the pin with the slug attached, you can put them back into the mold to the rear driving band and trap it in place allowing you to use the mold itself to assist in removing the pin. Then simply open the mold and the slug falls free! I found my slugs still spun a touch but I could pull straight out and viola'! Thanks again to Blood Trail and Tim Holt for sharing that knowledge!

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In these last pics the pin would still be attached to the slug. Just so happens that while attempting to get "one last cast" out of a pot of lead I ended up with lead trappen in the pin so I couldn't insert the pin back into these slugs for the pics. What can I say, my life is a warning to others. lol


Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

That is a handy tip should I get one of those moulds. The pin sticking in the HB is a major problem with my Lyman Foster mould too but no grooves so this tip doesn't apply there. Also, polishing and graphite didn't help there as it is just too long a pin and too shallow a taper. I don't use that mould anymore!

I do like the looks of that slug! Very nice! The mould looks good too and if the slug is spinning when you go to pull out the pin that means the mould is nice and round so good stuff.

I am looking forward to the care package and subsequent testing! There is another local slug shooter here (not many of us) that I am trying to tee up a shooting day with so maybe we test together. I have a pile of slug loads to test and just haven't gotten it done yet. SOON!

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

Longbow,

50 Slugs cast from pure(ish) lead (sheet lead and lead washers) and 50 wads inbound soon!

Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

50 is certainly more than I need! A dozen would do it! However, it you want to send 50 I'll just lose more brain cells to recoil!

I appreciate it for sure and will post results. This will be the stimulus I need to get away from all that has been keeping me off the range. In fact since shooting is therapeutic it will be good for me! I'll leave the range dumber but with a big smile I am sure.

Thanks,
Longbow

PS: By the way, 50 will be pricey (if you send that many) on postage/shipping. If you can send collect I'll pay. Otherwise I'll return the favour by sending you something.

[BigMrTong]

Just catching up on this one. Glad your testing it as this is the one that floats my boat. I really like the look of this slug and I’m wanting to try a bore rider like this.
What is the diameter of the slug, is it 12g bore sized, or a little bigger or smaller ?

The mould seems cheap via eBay to the UK, although 1000 wads seems to be more than the mould as the guy wants a lot of shipping on them.

I’m a big fan of HS6 for slugs (also like Blue Dot) so would try and work up a load with that if you can.

Happy to tag along and watch and help as much as I can as it will help me too :-)

[longbow]

BMT:

I have been following so many threads my old brain is overwhelmed but... I think BT posted that this slug runs around 0.727", undersize a bit anyway I am pretty sure.

I have an oversize smoothbore I'll be shooting them in so I may try paper patching though paper patch may not survive opening the crimp and the jump through the forcing cone. I can also knurl up then size back to my bore size... if they will knurl that far. I can make them bigger by several thou anyway.

I have not used HS6 as there hasn't been any available locally, when I have looked anyway. I do have some Blue Dot and so far it is my favourite slug powder, at least for heavy slugs.

I'll weigh these slugs complete but am betting the Precision Rifle data for their 610 gr. Piledriver will be about right for these. That load info is in post #27 if you haven't seen it.

I lean towards the Tusker clone though both that and the Paradox are nice designs to my eyes and the moulds appear to be of good quality. I will certainly enjoy testing these.

Longbow

[Collimators]

I found!
Special wads from Russia
from Svarog
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http://svaroghunt.ru/pulya-gualandi
e-mail:
svarog.zakaz@mail.ru

100-4,8$

Shipping:
250-16$
500-29$
1100-48$
2600-87$
6000-160$

[KrakenFan69]

So for me, getting a decent group one time mean very little. If I can repeat that group, then I have something. I was at the range today testing some Buckshot loads and ran another test of the Russian Paradox slug with 30 gn WSF and a fold crinp. I'm pretty content with this load but will continue to try to improve it. It rather reminds me of a recent group by Longbow with the horizontal line across the target. I shot this group standing with the shotgun (Rem 870 smoothbore iron sights) braced against a 2x4 wall. There was no target dot on the target I just held center as best as I could on an IPSC cardboard target.

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Kraken Fan #69

[Blood Trail]

So for me, getting a decent group one time mean very little. If I can repeat that group, then I have something. I was at the range today testing some Buckshot loads and ran another test of the Russian Paradox slug with 30 gn WSF and a fold crinp. I'm pretty content with this load but will continue to try to improve it. It rather reminds me of a recent group by Longbow with the horizontal line across the target. I shot this group standing with the shotgun (Rem 870 smoothbore iron sights) braced against a 2x4 wall. There was no target dot on the target I just held center as best as I could on an IPSC cardboard target.

216626

Kraken Fan #69

You tried blue dot?


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[KrakenFan69]

BT,

Yes I have. Some had some promise but at this point nothing has came close to WSF for accuracy except Longshot. #5 gn Longshot was terrible but 40 was pretty decent although it had more kick than WSF. So far 30 gn WSF is my jam.

Kraken Fan #69

[longbow]

Hahahahaha! My horizontal group was larger than your horizontal group... size does matter! Interestingly the same slug over a hard card wad column shot much better on the last range trip.

I'll be shooting some of those Paradox slugs this weekend with any luck. They are loaded over Blue Dot. I went a bit mild at 36 grs. because the only primers I could get are Federal 209A's and they have a reputation of raising pressures some. That was the starting load for the Precision Rifle Piledriver 610 gr. slug. I've had good results with 36 to 40 grs. of Blue Dot under a 0.735" RB which weighs the same as these slugs so should be good.

Kracken are you roll crimping or fold crimping?

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

I have tried them both rolled and fold crimped. They seem about the same either way honestly. I'm headed to the gun show in Calgary this weekend to score some more hulls,wads and gas seals. I'm in a bad way for those!


Looking forward to seeing the results!

Kraken Fan #69

[gpidaho]

I'm following along here with interest. I've just started toying with the slug-round ball loads and getting supplies together. One of my early purchases was the Lyman 20ga sabot slug mould. Now I'm new enough at this that there may be things I over look , so please be patient. When I had trouble with the HB pin sticking I applied a very small amount of dielectric silicon grease to the pin (this is what I always use on the sprue plates of my moulds) and that worked for me. Gp