Trimming 25 acp

[RED BEAR]

Purchased prvi brass is .002 over max length. Have hornady case trimmer but cases will not tighten up. Called hornady and was told there equipment will not work for 25acp. Anybody out there trim this cartridge and what trimmer you use .thanks

[AnthonyB]

Red Bear, this is the best definition of a glutton for punishment post I have ever seen. I can't help with your question, but offer my hearty congratulations and condolences on your quest!
Tony

[RED BEAR]

Some people don't like the small cases I do. Was a machinist in a job shop for over 30 years and always preferred the small parts nobody else wanted to do. Always told boss if I can't pick it up in one hand I count want to make it didn't always work out that way but usually did. Arthritis starting to get to my fingers and eyes started going twenty years ago . but Mr Magoo glasses and blue emu and hot gloves can still do pretty good. I got into the 25 just because I hadn't ever loaded it before and just wanted something small as a back up.

[JBinMN]

Dunno if this would help, but...

https://leeprecision.com/cutter-lock-stud.html

and..:

https://fsreloading.com/index.php?_route_=lee-precision-case-length-gauge-and-shell-holder-25-acp.html

Pretty cheap fix I would think, if ya want to try it/them...
:)

[rondog]

Why on Earth would you want to trim them? Pistol brass rarely needs trimming, if ever. And those little things? I'd just size 'em, prime 'em and fill 'em. They'll work just fine as-is.

[RED BEAR]

I always trim brass that is over the max length. Its just a personal preference. These are .002 over max length and .007 over trim length. Its a personal fault I could not stand to think the brass was not right. Plus being retired really dount have anything better to do. And truly enjoy reloading and casting.

[RED BEAR]

To jb thanks for the reply I will check this out.

[JBinMN]

To jb thanks for the reply I will check this out.

You are welcome! I hope ya find what ya seek!
:)

[country gent]

Ive never trimmed 25 acp cases. One of the Lee universal shell holders might work. Other wise a collet for one of the lathe typ rimmers could be modified with epoxy in the jaws to get a better grip if needed. Shim jaws open in the cuts. A case and alighnment pin ( to keep case centered) with a couple coats of wax applied coat case head with JB weld and insert in collet and a pilot in the mouth use a heavy rubber band to tension it in place. Let cure. tap case and pin out of collet remove shims and cut thru the epoxy in the cuts with a hacksaw 2 blades together give a cut about the same as the collet. This will give a form fitted collet that should grip very tight. A piece of aluminum or carbon turned to rim dia of the 25 acp with the alighnment stem and you could use solder to build up the jaws also.

[RED BEAR]

I will look into the Lee. But hornady is proprietary and no other shell holder will fit there trimmer. Being retired I no longer have access to machine shop. If I can't do anything else I do have hardened blocks that I could work up to the length and use a file. I may buy a nother trimmer in the fixture when funds allow.but will check and see if it will do the 25 . when I bought the hornady trimmer was told it would work on this case. Even just purchased the shell holder a couple weeks ago and was advertised as being for the trimmer. So do not want to spend the money on another trimmer only to find out it will not work also.

[str8wal]

Purchased prvi brass is .002 over max length.

Is this after sizing?

[country gent]

Maybe drill a hole thru a steel block the right length / thickness and polish to a snug fit on the case. sit on a flat block then use a file to trim down. A .270 drill will leave about .003 to polish out for the fit.A very fine swiss fille will remove the .002 in 2-3 passes with a nice burr free finish.

[Montana Lee]

Rcbs makes trim dies that work well especially if your more detail minded and arent worried about speed
For the shorter cases you need to use the extended shell holders. Midway usa. Midsouth as well as many others should have them

As far as a little back up or defense id go up to 32 or down to 22 mag and even then its going to be up close and personal. Good luck in your discerning quest.

[RED BEAR]

Yes this is after sizing. A 22 mag really doesn't do much better in a short barrel . I do keep looking at the ppk copies in 32 auto but I just do not like a keltec .and as I said this will be a back up regular carry is a fire star 9mm. I truly trust this gun as never had it jam with any type of ammo and I do mean never so I rather carry that or A 44 spec snub nose smith and Wesson when clothes allow. So I really just want something to tuck into pocket just in case

[RED BEAR]

To country gent that maybe what I will end up doing. And I really do thank everybody for there reply. Good luck and happy loading

[country gent]

The swiss pattern fine file works better than most other files as it doesn't tend to grab on the thin cross section of the case mouths. Another trick is to fill the file with chaulk so it dosnt load or pin. Chalk keeps the chips from sticking and removes oil from the surface of the file aiding in chip release. I would also recommend a narex glove for the hand holding the block as these filings are very fine and sharp.

On a side note a Lee push thru sizer drilled out and polished to the desired light snug fit. and adjusted for case length with the pusher could be used in the press as a file and trim die. Set case in place and raise ram file push out with the next case. This might end up being pretty quick for you and less hand work.

[RED BEAR]

Thanks country gent I believe I may have a set of these files will give it a try

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm sure I could find a way in my rcbs power trimmer to do it but I haven't trimmed a piece of handgun brass in 30 years. When I first started loading I had to trim them all and clean primer pockets after every shooting. Found neither did a thing for accuracy. Just a waste of time.

[Dancing Bear]

Not perfect but couldn't you do this using the chamfer bits on a case prep station? BTW I reload .25ACP and it's really not that bad to handle. Sometimes!

[RED BEAR]

Dancing bear unfortunately I count have a case prep center. Have hornady trimmer thought that would work for everything but was wrong. I champer and clean primer pockets by hand. Maybe one day. Lloyd Smale I know it probably doesn't make any difference it is a flaw of mine from working with close tolerances for many years just could not stand it would always think they weren't right. And I know that at some point down the road I would take them apart and fix them. It may not make any since but I am sure it would happen. So far it is not so bad working with the 25 dancing bear may try counter sink in drill press on a few and see how it goes. Thanks for the replys and god luck and happy loading.

[gray wolf]

may try counter sink in drill press
Just a left field thought--but-- is there a way possible to center a small Forsner <spelling
bit or an end mill in a drill press ?

[duckey]

Block of wood and sand paper

[JBinMN]

Less than $20-25.00 or close to it with shipping, & this would be a "moot point"..
Do as ya like.... "Mountain, or Molehill?"
;)

I wish ya the Best of Luck! & Hope ya find the solution without too much trouble... "I" am gonna "move on"...
:)

:drinks:

[RED BEAR]

I did come up with a fix took 5/8 thick piece of scrap steel drilled hole through center and sanded .012 off it and used a fine jewelers file on them put a back yard hardening on steel block heated it up and dropped in oil . after heat treating took last .001 or so off with stone. It worked pretty good. Was still a slight difference in the cases but not much. Since it is only this caliber I will probably just use this as it will be a while if ever that they need trimming again. Thank every one that replied I do appreciate it. It is good to have a place like this to bounce ideas off of people and get ideas on many things.

[Chev. William]

Way Late Noticing this Thread BUT what did the PPU Brass Measure For its Length?
The ones I have all are about .612", what CIP REQUIRES of European Manufacturers.

Also "Jagemann Stamping", in the USA, makes .25ACP brass now but is more 'centered in the SAAMI recommended Length (SAAMI = .595" to .615") as a 100 piece sample I measured had 63/100 in the .603"-604" length range with none outside .601"-.607" range.

If your PPU brass is UNFIRED and NOT Resized, I would be interested in Buying some from you as I have not found a Current Local source for the PPU empty Brass.
I prefer the .612" case length as I have some Test History with this length case.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED BEAR]

It all measured .617 to .618. Before and after sizing it didn't really change any. If you need some of this brass gaf and son has prvi brass 4.49 per fifty brand new stuff. Also if you are looking for a mold I recommend mp molds ordered a .251 HP mold and it arrived this morning got a 3 cavity HP mold and a 4 cavity rnfp mold didn't expect to get 2 molds just thought they would send different pins not 2 separate molds .both for $101.00 shipped. You can't beat it. Haven't cast with them yet but the workmanship looks to be first rate.

[Chev. William]

It all measured .617 to .618. Before and after sizing it didn't really change any. If you need some of this brass gaf and son has prvi brass 4.49 per fifty brand new stuff. Also if you are looking for a mold I recommend mp molds ordered a .251 HP mold and it arrived this morning got a 3 cavity HP mold and a 4 cavity rnfp mold didn't expect to get 2 molds just thought they would send different pins not 2 separate molds .both for $101.00 shipped. You can't beat it. Haven't cast with them yet but the workmanship looks to be first rate.

Thank you for the "Graf & Sons" Suggested source for PPU .25ACP empty Brass, i placed an order with them for some of the Brass. When the PPU Empty Brass arrives, I will do a sample Inspection and report my results. Given the Normal shipping/mail delays perhaps the order will arrive before Christmas this year.

Your Suggested "MP Molds" has been added as a bookmarked site on my Home computer for further review as my Initial perusal of their site did not reveal the .25ACP molds you referred to.

Best Regards,

[RED BEAR]

I just placed another order yesterday for more brass. The mold is listed as mp 252-44pb it says out of stock so I might have got the last one but am sure they will be back in stock soon. It even came with correct top punch and Allen wrenches. Going to try it out in the morning. Will let you know how it works but have seen several post about there molds all spoke highly of them.

[Chev. William]

I did come up with a fix took 5/8 thick piece of scrap steel drilled hole through center and sanded .012 off it and used a fine jewelers file on them put a back yard hardening on steel block heated it up and dropped in oil . after heat treating took last .001 or so off with stone. It worked pretty good. Was still a slight difference in the cases but not much. Since it is only this caliber I will probably just use this as it will be a while if ever that they need trimming again. Thank every one that replied I do appreciate it. It is good to have a place like this to bounce ideas off of people and get ideas on many things.

Very good "Back Yard Engineering "solution Red Bear. You have aTool tha twil Last you a Long time at low cost to you.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Soundguy]

according to 25acp case head dimensions, A rcbs trim pro 2 with the uni-jaw will hold it. I have one.. but have never trimmed pistol brass much. A rcbs 9380 pilot is 25 cal.. so they do make one.

[Chev. William]

I just placed another order yesterday for more brass. The mold is listed as mp 252-44pb it says out of stock so I might have got the last one but am sure they will be back in stock soon. It even came with correct top punch and Allen wrenches. Going to try it out in the morning. Will let you know how it works but have seen several post about there molds all spoke highly of them.

Finally found the Mold(s)!
They were listed under ".243 - 6mm" molds and Are marked mp252-46 etc.
Solid says 3 ea 4 cavity available and Hollow point says Out of Stock

Maybe Next month I may have funds to order one.

I may try ordering a custom mold using Ranch Dog TL255-65-RF Design as a basis for a 65 grain bullet sizeable down to .251"-.252" diameter.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED BEAR]

Ordered hollow point and got both. Was a little surprised but went back and looked and it said you get hollow point and solid never used hollow point before so thought maybe different pins. Was not expecting 2 molds. Tried both and they cast great couldn't be happier.

[Chev. William]

I received My order of PPU .25ACP brass from Graf & Sons today.
I measureed one bag of fifty cases and found the following:
From .595" to .616" Zero Examples.
16 each at .617" case length.
18 each at .618" case length.
09 each at .619" case length.
07 each at .620" case length.

The sample size is 10 percent of the total order quantity.

It seems that PPU is now shipping Empty .25ACP brass longer for reloaders to trim to their desired case lengths. this adds a Step for the private hand loader but also insulates PPU from any possible claims of shipping 'undersize' Brass in this caliber.

Hand loaders must trim the Brass before use which make sany failures due to 'out of specification' Cartridge failures legally on the Hand loader; NOT PPU under EU and CIP Rules, in my Opinion.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: Additional measurements find that the Lot Sample is all .274" diameter, mouth to Base; and the rim measures .298" diameter. Chev. Willim

[RED BEAR]

As long as you don't have hornady trimmer you should be good to go. Hornady makes a new shell holder that will not fit there trimmer. Researched trimmers and thought I had the only one I needed. Wrong!!!

[Chev. William]

This new Batch of PPU .25ACP brass is FRUSTRATING!!!
As it measures .274" diameter base to mouth; even 'expanding the Neck' will not help the 'under desired size' base area and lower case body.

If loaded they will have the inverse of a 'bottle neck' appearance, with the Base and lower body smaller than the Neck where the bullet is seated. Will result in smaller than desired propellant area volume and much Expansion upon firing in even a straight cylinder chamber of mine at .2795" diameter.

More thinking required!

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[gwpercle]

Red Bear, this is the best definition of a glutton for punishment post I have ever seen. I can't help with your question, but offer my hearty congratulations and condolences on your quest!
Tony
If we had a like button....I would be hitting it!

Trimming 25 acp ? As Troy Landry would say.....Just Choote Em!

[RED BEAR]

Plan on carrying as a back up don't want to leave anything to chance. After trip to the range to make sure everything works out and prove reliable. If not back to drawing board. Anyway as I said before as a retired machinist and being a little anal just could not stand to let it go .

[Chev. William]

After thinking overnight on the Frustrating problem with the PPU over Length and under sized .25ACP brass, I think i can Expand the Necks and trim them to length. They should be good enough for "plinking rounds"; just not for my Testing needs.

I will try using my Lyman Universal Case Trimmer with a Power Stem (driven with a portable drill motor).
It will be interesting to find out if it can be adjusted down to trim .25ACP cases Reliably.

Best Regards,
Chev. william