Savage Model 25 Sleeved Barrel

[deltaenterprizes]

What do they mean by a “sleeved barrel”?

[Earlwb]

It means that they pressed the barrel into the receiver. It isn't threaded, like most other guns, and screwed into the receiver. They also pin the barrel as well. A gunsmith can replace the barrel though, so it isn't the end when one wears out the barrel.

[vzerone]

That Savage Model 25 has a threaded barrel. It's also pinned by two pins. They call it sleeved because the shank goes a fulle two inches into the receiver.

[pietro]

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FWIW, a "sleeved" barrel usually refers to an entire barrel sheathed within an exterior sleeve, like when faulty shotgun barrels have sub-gauge barrel liners permanently installed, as a repair to return the gun to service.

AFAIK, that is not the case with the Savage Model 25 - where did you find the reference that the Savage Model 25 has a sheathed barrel ?
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[Earlwb]

Well my reference comes from this thread here http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1027148

quoting one of the posts in the thread:
"I called Savage and talked to them about that rifle and it is a model 93 on steriods. The barrel is pressed into the action, makeing it unchangeable. This is a major draw back in my opinion. I would want the barrel of a gun that looks that nice to be interchangeable, especailly on barrel burning calibers like varmint cartridges."

and this post too:
"The tech lady from savage told me when I asked her what a sleeved barrel meant, that the barrel was pressed into the action just like their rimfire series. I guess they call it sleeved instead of threaded. I asked if they though that the gun could take the pressures generated by a .204 with a pressed in barrel. She had to put me on hold for a long time. Then she came back and said their tests rifles had no problems in XXXX number of shots. I said, thanks for your time."

[tazman]

Interesting. I own a Model 25 in223. It is one of my better shooters. Consistently under 1 inch at 200 yards on any calm day.
The problem with getting the barrel replaced worries me a bit. Perhaps I need to move it down the road for something that I can get worked on easier.

[Multigunner]

I have a 23B and always thought the receiver and barrel were a single piece of steel.

When I saw the thread title I thought you meant having a similar barrel relined.
That would be about the only way of restoring a 23B if the bore got badly pitted. One could rebore to a larger caliber like .32-20 I suppose.

Some Chinese SKS rifles had barrels pressed and pinned to speed production. It seems to work out okay but makes rebarreling more trouble than its worth.

I don't much care for the idea.

[vzerone]

Well my reference comes from this thread here http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1027148

quoting one of the posts in the thread:
"I called Savage and talked to them about that rifle and it is a model 93 on steriods. The barrel is pressed into the action, makeing it unchangeable. This is a major draw back in my opinion. I would want the barrel of a gun that looks that nice to be interchangeable, especailly on barrel burning calibers like varmint cartridges."

and this post too:
"The tech lady from savage told me when I asked her what a sleeved barrel meant, that the barrel was pressed into the action just like their rimfire series. I guess they call it sleeved instead of threaded. I asked if they though that the gun could take the pressures generated by a .204 with a pressed in barrel. She had to put me on hold for a long time. Then she came back and said their tests rifles had no problems in XXXX number of shots. I said, thanks for your time."

The round front stud (savage would probably call it a recoil lug on a model 25 ?) does screw into the receiver. if you screw that out of the receiver you do see threads in the bottom of the hole. not sure if they are barrel threads or the threads of a sleeve threaded into the receiver and the barrel is pressed into the sleeve.

that front stud stops against those threads. those threads are very jacked up from that stud being screwed up against them. i do know you would have a real mess if you tried unscrewing those jacked up threads out of the receiver.

I've read also that after the barrel is installed Savage swages the receiver around it. It may be the barre shank has threads or grooves around it's circumference and then swaged and pinned. Someone would have to have one shot out and take it to a gunsmith and have him pull it apart to know. You can't really go by what the lady said answering the phone.

This reminds me of when S&W first changed over from there screwed in and pinned barrels on their revolver. They said the next system was threaded and the frame swaged around it. I've also heard that they were mismatched threads. Their revolvers barrel system is much different now.

[country gent]

Some of the better 22 target rifles had pressed in barrels Anchultzs was one. I think some walthers also. A pressed in barrel can be changed its a different procedure and done thru a couple ways. Some are pinned in place on the joint line. A lot are assembled with the receiver hot this expands the receiver size and the barrel stub frozen in dry ice this shrinks the stub they are then assembled and when the receiver cools and the barrel warms you have your press fit. the pin is then drilled and installed and the chamber finished reamed. A .001-.002 interference fit can be done like this. Some feel it gives a straighter more solid joint than threads do. I did the op rod guides on M1A/m14s like this a .0005 to .001 interference then heat the guide and freeze the barrel slip together let normalize and drill ream the taper pin holes. Guides done this way didn't loosen up and wiggle with use.

[Earlwb]

Well maybe it is threaded and easier to replace than it might look.
In this thread they talk about the barrel being threaded into the receiver. But maybe they have a shoulder on the barrel so that it fits snug like a sleeve into the front of the receiver. It sucks that pictures have gone away from Photobucket. Instead of a barrel nut they pin the barrel in place.
ref http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14361

They do mention it here too. Quoted excerpt: "To get additional stiffness, the barrel is sleeved into the action. The Model 25 barrel threads into the receiver a full two inches."
ref http://www.ohiovalleyoutdoors.com/page/content.detail/id/505642/Savage-Model-25-Varminter.html?nav=5053
and they state: "Missing on the Model 25 is the barrel nut that secures the barrel to the receiver. Instead, once the barrel is threaded into the receiver and head spacing is set, the barrel is secured and locked in place with not one, but two pins."

I looked around but I didn't find anyone selling replacement barrels for it. Maybe ER Shaw, or Shiloh, etc. do sell barrels, they just aren't showing it on their websites.

[vzerone]

Well maybe it is threaded and easier to replace than it might look.
In this thread they talk about the barrel being threaded into the receiver. But maybe they have a shoulder on the barrel so that it fits snug like a sleeve into the front of the receiver. It sucks that pictures have gone away from Photobucket. Instead of a barrel nut they pin the barrel in place.
ref http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14361

They do mention it here too. Quoted excerpt: "To get additional stiffness, the barrel is sleeved into the action. The Model 25 barrel threads into the receiver a full two inches."
ref http://www.ohiovalleyoutdoors.com/page/content.detail/id/505642/Savage-Model-25-Varminter.html?nav=5053
and they state: "Missing on the Model 25 is the barrel nut that secures the barrel to the receiver. Instead, once the barrel is threaded into the receiver and head spacing is set, the barrel is secured and locked in place with not one, but two pins."

I looked around but I didn't find anyone selling replacement barrels for it. Maybe ER Shaw, or Shiloh, etc. do sell barrels, they just aren't showing it on their websites.

It not having a barrel nut kind of tips me off it's not a normal screwed in barrel. I think it's pressed in and swaged/squeezed.

[Earlwb]

It not having a barrel nut kind of tips me off it's not a normal screwed in barrel. I think it's pressed in and swaged/squeezed.

I can agree. But it does have me a bit confused as to what Savage means by "a sleeved barrel" in this case.

[country gent]

A barrel nut isn't necessary for a threaded barrel. For many years from the buffalo rifles and others a threaded receiver and barrel shank with a shoulder to lock and time it in place were the norm. The barrel nut allows the barrel threads to be tightened with fewer timing issues and machining is easier. Timed threads are much more expensive to cut.

[Earlwb]

Did any of the military bolt action rifles ever use a barrel nut? I don't remember ever seeing one that did.

[john.k]

No,but the emergency period No4s come close,they used graded washers to make up for inaccurate machining.Incidentally,many modern rimfires have the barrel located by a couple of setscrews and nothing else.

[john.k]

Just for interest,I had a look at the website......the video clearly shows the barrel being threaded into the reciever,with a long unthreaded portion adjacent to the bolt face.There is a barrel nut present,it doesnt have any spanner slots ,and if you look at the video,it doesnt show the nut turning on the thread.......its possible the nut is swaged onto the barrel,making it a unit,so that headspace cant be tinkered with........i would estimate the thread to be around 1"x 18tpi,or 16tpi.,or in metric 25x 1.5 mm...........anyhoo,the video definitely shows the barrel having thred,and being screwed into the reciever by hand up against a gauge to set h/space,then the nut swaged on.,or threaded.The nut being smooth,and tapered,and not meant to be removed,or moved........no sign of any pins.......just my take........looks OK except for the ugly Savage bolt handle lump.....It aint no 98.

[nekshot]

I still like em and wish I got one when they first came out. Skip barrel replacement and buy a complete gun for your fancy then you have 2. The more the better you will feel!

[country gent]

The ARs used a nut to lock the barrel extension into the upper, but the extension is threaded into the extension and butted to a shoulder. Some of the eary Winchester stainless barrels were sleeved with an thin moly steel tube so it could be polished and blued. The one NRA manual showed a "sleeved" to heavy countour barrel with conduit used and epoxy to fill and hold it. The barrel was turned with a a square shoulder the conduit fitted close to length centered at the muzzle and filled with epoxy. allowed to cure then remove the centering spacers and filled to level and allowed to cure. This made a heavy weight stiffer barrel from a light weight barrel.

[Jack Stanley]

Taz , you probably won't need to think about replacement until you get about nine or ten thousand rounds through the barrel . A friend of mine put seven thousand rounds through a Remington made 22-250 barrel before groups went over two inches . He bought the rifle used so who knows how many it had .

Jack

[tazman]

I bought mine used as well. I have put right at 3000 round through mine. Groups are still tight so it wouldn't be an immediate need in any case.

[lucifers]

The Savage 25 is a cheap gun. Doubt you could ever wear out the barrel unless you shot P-dogs for a living. Even then your ammo expenses would be 20X the cost of a new rifle.

IF it is pressed and pinned in you could STILL replace it by drilling out the 3/4 of the old bbl, threading whats left and fitting a new bbl. This is the way K31s are done and it works just great.

Yes the Savage 1919, 1921, M19 and M23 all have one piece receiver bbl units. Again can be rebbled (see above), rebored or relined.

As with the 25, the prize may not be worth the quest unless it is a special rifle or you are attached to it.

FYI, lots of 22RF bbls are pressed/pinned in.

[Jack Stanley]

Don't give it a second thought Taz , ask a dedicated high power shooter how long barrels last in the AR .

Jack

[john.k]

The thing I dont understand is the price.The website says the MSRP is $775,yet people say it sells for $299,that is a mighty big difference.Maybe there are actually two different guns,one made extra cheap to sell cheap.

[tazman]

The Savage 25 sells for between $550-$600 new and around $400 used. I don't know where that $299 number came from. Some Savage Axis rifles sell in that range when you can find them on sale or with rebate.

[Jack Stanley]

You could buy a second rifle for that just in case day ......................... :bigsmyl2:

Jack

[Earlwb]

Just for interest,I had a look at the website......the video clearly shows the barrel being threaded into the reciever,with a long unthreaded portion adjacent to the bolt face.There is a barrel nut present,it doesnt have any spanner slots ,and if you look at the video,it doesnt show the nut turning on the thread.......its possible the nut is swaged onto the barrel,making it a unit,so that headspace cant be tinkered with........i would estimate the thread to be around 1"x 18tpi,or 16tpi.,or in metric 25x 1.5 mm...........anyhoo,the video definitely shows the barrel having thred,and being screwed into the reciever by hand up against a gauge to set h/space,then the nut swaged on.,or threaded.The nut being smooth,and tapered,and not meant to be removed,or moved........no sign of any pins.......just my take........looks OK except for the ugly Savage bolt handle lump.....It aint no 98.

I also checked their website out too. But the video was for a Savage model 11 or something like that, not for the 25.

[john.k]

That would have to be on the confusing side of downright misleading.

[Earlwb]

Yes I agree too. But the 25 doesn't have a barrel nut and their video shows the rifle with a barrel nut. I got all excited and interested in watching the videos but I wound up disappointed.

[tazman]

You could buy a second rifle for that just in case day ......................... :bigsmyl2:

Jack

I did. I got a Savage model 12 with a heavy barrel. It shoots just like the 25 does with the same loads.