How about brisk defense cast loads for the pocket .380

[YR!]

I have a Kahr pocket pistol in .380 and love it. What do you recommend for cast loads for defense in this caliber?

[jcren]

I run the Lee 95 rf in all my 380's. Cast and pc at 98 grains, current favorite load is 4.2 of autocomp for a chronoed 880 out of my bersa. Have ran hotter loads, but accuracy goes to heck.

[Outpost75]

I load Accurate 35-120H with 2.5 grains of Bullseye in my Ruger LCP, Beretta 1934 and SIG P230.

208990

208991

[joebaja]

I'll second jcren's endorsement of the Lee 95 RF. It feeds better than anything else I have stuffed in the CZ83. 2.6gr of Titegroup chronos a shade over 800fps for me, so that might be a little light for personal defense, but it is crazy accurate.

[YR!]

Thank you all. Great info

[rintinglen]

My experience duplicates that of Jcren. I have the Ranch Dog mold that was the origin of the Lee boolit, and have run hundreds of them through my several 380's. I use 3.2 grains of WW-231 with complete satisfaction.

[dubber123]

LEE 95 RF with 4.7 grains of Power Pistol, 900 fps. from my LCP, very accurate too.

[Texas by God]

Outpost75 makes the pocket guns thump!

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[10gaOkie]

I run 3.0gr Bullseye behind the Lee Ranch Dog bullet in my two Bersa 380s. Very accurate. /Chris

[TAC14]

Depending on where you live, you should consider the risks of using handloaded ammo in a self defense situation.

A DA wanting to hang scalps will say you used "killer ammo" (remember cop killer bullets ?)

I found out what defensive ammo is issued to LEOs here, Hornady Critical Defense, that's what is in all my carry guns.

"I use what out police use." Can't imagine a better defense and it always goes bang and feeds.

[jmort]

""I use what out police use." Can't imagine a better defense and it always goes bang and feeds."

The best defense is to be certain you are "justified"

I will happily use the Ranch Dog 100 grain RF for self-defense. That is what is in my .380s
Should shoot through a goblin
I know of someone who has killed two wild hogs with it, not head shots either.

[TAC14]

"shooting thru" is also best avoided. When your pass thru paralyzes some 6 year old minority you'll be paying her forever (after you get out of jail for using "killer bullets").

If you use your head, you have a greater chance a lightening strike of being involved in a deadly force self defense event.

I've seen far more dangerous situations on shooting ranges than walking in NY, Miami, LA or Chicago.

[jmort]

If trained LEOs miss 70% of the time, I have never understood all the talk about over-penetration. A miss is the ultimate in over-penetration. And the chance of me paralyzing a six-year-old "female minority" is, as a practical matter, zero.

Average of 470 people struck by lightening each year in the USA

"Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary wildly, depending on the study's definition of a defensive gun use, survey design, population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Low-end estimates are in the range of 55,000 to 80,000 incidents per year, while high end estimates reach of 4.7 million per year. Discussion over the number and nature of DGU and the implications to gun control policy came to a head in the late 1990s."

It is hard for me to be the new me at times.
Kumbaya

[TAC14]

Would be interesting to see a breakdown of that "estimate". Somehow I doubt civilians with CC permits kill more than 470 felons with handguns in deadly force confrontations each year.

The NRA digs up everyone it can. Count up the Armed Citizen reports in the AR of felons killed by handgun owners for a year .... be surprised if it reached 100.

Shoot somebody with those "killer boolits" in a blue city or state and you'll be living under a bridge by the time they get done with you.

There is a very good reason the NRA is now selling insurance should a member get involved in a shootout.

"It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 but the objective is to avoid both extremes!"

[Mr_Sheesh]

Glaser Safety Slugs are still available, and are factory ammo, if you shot those your reason might well be that you were afraid of over penetration and of ricochets; Those, I am pretty sure would get a prosecutor all over your case compared to soft cast bullets over a reasonable powder charge... But they are a choice for SD, and some would choose them.

"I was trained to carry what I practice with, for self defense" is not an uncommon training, for good reason. "I reload because it makes shooting more affordable, so I hit what I am aiming at" should distract from any claim of super lethal ammo... Worst case get Mas Ayoob or someone else who knows the field to testify, IF it comes down to needing that.

And I am not shocked at all at the number on incidents vs. far fewer numbers of dead felons; that is because of:

When the CCW carrier draws, a Vast Majority of felons suddenly remember they left the iron on, & run back home quickly, to prevent a fire. So fewer shot felons.

Only about 1 in 9 of those shot, and this includes people executed by organized crime, die from their wounds. (Hollyweird would have you believe it's more like 400%, or so?) So fewer dead felons.

[TAC14]

Glasers are fine in T-Shirt climates. HCD is far better.

[reddog81]

Shoot somebody with those "killer boolits" in a blue city or state and you'll be living under a bridge by the time they get done with you.

Do you have anything to substantiate this claim?




There is a very good reason the NRA is now selling insurance should a member get involved in a shootout.

The only reason they're selling insurance is to make money....

Do you have any examples where a bullet fired by a citizen passed through a criminal and hit an innocent bystander?

[TAC14]

IF you bothered to watch any of the self defense shows on TV hosted by professionals you would have seen the caution to not use handloads many times.

Yeah the NRA is evil and were it not for them we would be as well off gunownership wise as England and Europe. Who could wish for more ?

Testimony from an LEO:

"There is a reason that law enforcement & other armed professionals don't carry ball but instead carry expanding bullets.

My biggest concern with carrying ball .45 is "shoot through". I sure don't want to shoot though an aggressor then through the wall behind him & hit an innocent person in the next room, or building, or block.

That is something that would be very difficult to defend against in a court of law. Not to mention being something that I want to avoid if at all possible."

I'm not trying to convince you, just trying to help someone else avoid having a problem.

Why anyone would bet their life on a low velocity small caliber lead bullet that may or may not expand rather than a proven self defense load escapes me.

But then again, my cars don't have drum brakes either.:bigsmyl2:

[jmort]

I pray that we don't go down this road again.

[reddog81]

I could just copy and paste my original questions but I'm sure I'd get the same non-response the second time around....

I never said anything about the NRA being evil. I just stated an obvious conclusion.

[Lloyd Smale]

this has been proven wrong many times. Show me one instance of a civilian using reloads that went to jail for using them in a justified shooting. I would think that if any eyebrows would rise in court would be if you were using special high power ammo like hornadys critical defense ect. Bottom line is its a justified shooting it doesn't matter what ammo you used. If it isn't justified your going to jail no matter what ammo you use. I am a certified NRA instructor and theres not a single mention in any of our teaching info against using handloads. You say this
Why anyone would bet their life on a low velocity small caliber lead bullet that may or may not expand rather than a proven self defense load escapes me. and think a jury isn't going to question your motive of using special ammo to insure you not only stopped the criminal but insured he was killed by using extra cost ammo. there is absolutely no law on the books in any state that forbids the use of handloads in a ccw case. Not one law that forbids the use of FMJ bullets. Just a bunch of internet experts passing on urban legends. Bottom line is if your carrying a gun your showing the judge you were willing to kill someone if it was necessary. What bullet you choose is trivial. You cant break a law if there is no law. Like I said show me the beef. Show me one justified shooting where a man spent one day in jail because he had a cast bullet in his gun.
IF you bothered to watch any of the self defense shows on TV hosted by professionals you would have seen the caution to not use handloads many times.

Yeah the NRA is evil and were it not for them we would be as well off gunownership wise as England and Europe. Who could wish for more ?

Testimony from an LEO:

"There is a reason that law enforcement & other armed professionals don't carry ball but instead carry expanding bullets.

My biggest concern with carrying ball .45 is "shoot through". I sure don't want to shoot though an aggressor then through the wall behind him & hit an innocent person in the next room, or building, or block.

That is something that would be very difficult to defend against in a court of law. Not to mention being something that I want to avoid if at all possible."

I'm not trying to convince you, just trying to help someone else avoid having a problem.

Why anyone would bet their life on a low velocity small caliber lead bullet that may or may not expand rather than a proven self defense load escapes me.

But then again, my cars don't have drum brakes either.:bigsmyl2:

[Outpost75]

The NRA has been selling insurance as a revenue stream ever since Max Rich got them into the cancer insurance business, and I wonder how that worked out?

They will bargain for nationwide permit reciprocity and the price will be that everybody who owns a gun needs to carry liability insurance like they do for their car, pay $$$$ to take the approved NRA training course etc. It's all about the money and letting the camel's nose into the tent. No thank you!

[Love Life]

Dang, I hate that I missed this thread for so long. Keeping malls safe takes up the majority of my time. Now that I've changed out of my ninja garb, and put my tactical H&R single shot away, allow me to wax eloquent on the subject.

Mas Ayoob is a boob. Oh, and I use a max dose of Bullseye powder under the Lee 95 gr RF. Out of my Pocketlite, it will hold a 4 inch 10 shot group at 25 yards rested.

[warboar_21]

Getting back on topic, when I did have a 380 I bought the mihec 95gr hp mold. With the solid pins in they drop at 100gr and have the same profile as the buffalo bore cast bullets.
Now that the micro 9mms are close to same size as the 380s I see no reason to carry one.


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[M-Tecs]

I use the Buffalo Bore 100 +P grain cast. I can't load anything that comes close to their performance with the currently available powders.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127