Found a new use for a PID

[10x]

Talking to my local pharmacist - a young lady who I have known all her life.
The discussion came to making candy and the need for temperature control.
I mentioned the PID - now she wants one.

[Walter Laich]

I put one on my Lyman 4500 back before PC

just wire-tied it to the side of the reservoir

cheap one off of ebay--is in C° but not a problem to figure out what number is correct for melting lube

[bangerjim]

I design and sell industrial grade (high $$$$$$) PID-based control systems. You can control anything (pressure/temperature/flow/level) with a PID controller......applied correctly.

The newer generation of REALLY cheap (Chicom) controllers puts them in range of the average person!

Banger

[jjamna]

What amperage do the PID's you guy's use handle? I have considered one to regulate my electric smoker. It is an old one that has one temp and it is 240 to 260 depending on the weather. I tried a variable speed motor controller on it and it melted (rated at 15 amps). Melted where the element plugged in to it.

[10x]

What amperage do the PID's you guy's use handle? I have considered one to regulate my electric smoker. It is an old one that has one temp and it is 240 to 260 depending on the weather. I tried a variable speed motor controller on it and it melted (rated at 15 amps). Melted where the element plugged in to it.

Using a solid state relay the amperage of the PID is not relevant. The amperage of the relay is. I believe the SSR (Solid state relay) can handle 40 amps. They run about $3.50 shipped from china.
The PID controlls the solid state relay. The relay does need to be on a heat sink if the amperage is high
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-Industrial-FOTEK-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40A-with-Protective-Flag-SSR-40DA-40A-DC/2035173599.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.aJSmFj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10 065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10342_10 547_10343_10340_10341_10548_5130015_10541_10084_10 083_10139_10307_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10 314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_506 0015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitc h_5&algo_expid=cb7b9bae-a1ba-4e6d-b9ac-52d105b25a1c-0&algo_pvid=cb7b9bae-a1ba-4e6d-b9ac-52d105b25a1c&rmStoreLevelAB=1

[jmorris]

I have been using them for years on my smokers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMZ9voAORYc

[jjamna]

I have been using them for years on my smokers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMZ9voAORYc

Will the one's they are selling here work? I know nothing about them.

[bangerjim]

Controllers are the "BRAINS" of the system that controls the "final element". That can be anything from a valve to a thermal element to a pump to a positioner...AND......including a solid state relay.

Most controllers are used with the 4-20 madc proportional (varible) output to drive variable final elements, not just simple on-off heaters and SSR's.

PID (proportional/integral/derivative) style controller have been around for many decades. I started out using them back when they were pneumatic! People on this forum have just discovered what they can REALLY do just in the past couple of years.

[Catshooter]

I use one for lard rendering. Controls an electric roaster perfectly.


Cat

[bstone5]

Use a PID to control temperature in a parkising tank. A stainless steel water heater heating element is used to heat to 180 degrees, works very good in maintaining a constant temperature.

[Dragonheart]

I installed a PID on a 30" wall oven I converted for powder coating. The all digital oven had a bad control panel, which would cost $$ to replace, so I got it for free. Cost me about $60 in parts to set up the PID to control the two 220V elements. Set the PID up with a relay, heatsink and fan you should have no problems as my relay operates under 90 degrees.

[ChuckO]

Aside from using a PID on my casting pot and my convection oven for PC applications I have two in use on my home built brewery and one on a sous vide water oven in the kitchen. I've found that everything works best if the electronics are kept separate from any heating appliance, heat is the enemy of electronic devices.

Most of us don't know it, but we are using a form of a PID when we use cruise control in a car.

[bbogue1]

My PID is in a kids metal lunch box. The box holds 2. When I use them both I use one for the lead pot and the other for a hot plate for molds. It does not matter what the electrical device is that the PID is controlling (the load), the PID turns on the electricity when needed and turns it off when a set value (temp) is reached. You can choose to use them separately, I can use either one to control my PC oven and either one to control my smelting hot plate, just leave the unused one turned off. Both are RexC100 Chinese and are not as adjustable as some, but, they certainly do the job and the entire set cost under $50 for both PID, both SSR all the wiring and the lunchbox. 209038 and here is my actual schematic 209039 I am building one for a shooter in Alabama and I'm putting it in a Double Bubble lunch box. It does read in C but that is no problem since I only use 4 temps and I wrote them on the top so I don't have to look them up. Heat in the box has never been an issue. It sure has reduced my rejects when casting and since I can assuredly set the smelting temp below 750 and maintain the temp I have no worries about zinc.

[jmorris]

I used one in my egg incubator too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzkJZbsuxj0

Wound up using a cold air humidifier controlled by another device vs the sponge and water.

[LenH]

I have been using a digital controller for an old electric smoker. The heating element is rated for 1000 watts and the unit will keep the temp where I set it.
I keep probes for different things. The smoker, the lead pot & for the toaster oven when I powder coat.

[jmorris]

But I have been using them for casting since before they became popular.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2U1ujg_nzo

They actually used to be quite expensive.

[Dragonheart]

Yes, electronics are terrific, wonderful problem solvers and work savers ................. until they flood! Just ask the tens of thousands of car owners in Houston whose vehicles went underwater.

[bangerjim]

For years past, I have sold industrial grade controllers for anywhere beteen $600 and $1200 - depending on the control loop sophistication needed. These are NOT the teeny postage stamp size people on here use. Industry prefers the DIN and 1/2DIN sizes that can easily be seen across a control room.

With the flood of cheap ChiCom products, those teeny controllers are now easily within the price range of most who want to mess around with them - and using one dedicated to each application, rather than swapping one around to several applications, is very doable for anyone today. And the lower quality ChiCom bare metal rod t/c's (actually made to mount in a thermowell for protection) have flooded the market. Add to that the usage of cheap ChiCom SSR's makes building an on-off control loop pretty inexpensive, compaired to previous times.

My shop is currently working on a control system that uses large format three mode controllers with feed-forward capabilities, computer LAN interface, and 4-20 madc control output feeding 800amp industrial solid state variable output 3 phase 480V modules. Now THAT is PID+ control! And how industrial heat treat vacuum ovens are controlled. All done with made in USA and Europe products. (Yes.....I know components are sources worldwide, so don't bother going there [smilie=s:) Buy USA!


Isn't technology amazing.

[jmorris]

Yes, electronics are terrific, wonderful problem solvers and work savers ................. until they flood! Just ask the tens of thousands of car owners in Houston whose vehicles went underwater.

Pretty hard to avoid electronics these days, anything a PID would control would also be electronic.

A lot easier to avoid floods than electronics.

However, I agree. Your 2018 automobile would likely be toast in a flood where your 1947 Ford 8n would just need a change of fluids.

[bangerjim]

Pretty hard to avoid electronics these days, anything a PID would control would also be electronic.

Not necessarily. I control not only heaters via triac/SCR packs but pump and conveyor motors, industrial mixers, combustion dampers, pneumatic valves via I/P (electro/pneumatic) positioners and all kind of stuff that is not directly purely "electronic". Even lighting systems of specific types.

Your imagination is the only limit to the possibility of PID controllers and thier uses.

[jmorris]

Your imagination is the only limit to the possibility of PID controllers and thier uses.

I suppose I could use them as bookends or paperweights but as far as having them functioning as intended, that requires electricity.

The output of the PID would have to control something that converted the electronic signal to something else. Like the mechanical movement of the damper or rotation of the auger, I posted in #6. If there is no power to the PID, the devices cannot function as intended.

[Discus420]

Using a solid state relay the amperage of the PID is not relevant. The amperage of the relay is. I believe the SSR (Solid state relay) can handle 40 amps. They run about $3.50 shipped from china.
The PID controlls the solid state relay. The relay does need to be on a heat sink if the amperage is high
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-Industrial-FOTEK-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40A-with-Protective-Flag-SSR-40DA-40A-DC/2035173599.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.aJSmFj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10 065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10342_10 547_10343_10340_10341_10548_5130015_10541_10084_10 083_10139_10307_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10 314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_506 0015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitc h_5&algo_expid=cb7b9bae-a1ba-4e6d-b9ac-52d105b25a1c-0&algo_pvid=cb7b9bae-a1ba-4e6d-b9ac-52d105b25a1c&rmStoreLevelAB=1

I suggest Grainger...........

[Dragonheart]

In my many years dealing with Grainger one thing is a given; You will definitely pay for what you get. The majority of electronics are being made in China even if they carry an old well known USA brand on the box. Seeing most here are looking for ways to project on the cheap the best way to get a PID package is off Amazon.

An Inkbird PID, thermocouple, 40 amp relay and heatsink can be had for under $40. The single relay will handle two 220V elements. If you are going to run two 220V elements as I did on my 30" PC oven conversion then you will also need a fan to keep the heatsink/relay cool. With fan cooling on a heatsink my relay operates under 90 degrees.

A PID controls the temperature within a very narrow range by the thermocouple sensing minor fluctuations in temperature. The PID then processes this information and turns the power on or off quickly and for short durations to maintain temperature.

If you want a timer to turn the PID off at the end of a cooking cycle as I did on my oven, that is another separate item you will need.

[dragon813gt]

I suggest Grainger...........

Grainger has a large catalog and that's about the only good thing I have to say about them. They're ridiculously expensive. If you need it and they're the only one that has it then it's worth the cost. Otherwise there are many many better options.

[jmorris]

In my many years dealing with Grainger one thing is a given; You will definitely pay for what you get.

https://www.zoro.com/solid-state-relays/c/4848/ is Granger online, even had delivery by Granger trucks and packaging with orders from Zoro. Not only are the prices lower, the are always sending out coupons and codes for even better deals.

That said https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Solid_State_Relays is a better place to buy solid state relays for a low price.

[kokomokid]

Jmorris.Great post for an incubator but how do you know which thermometer is correct?

[jmorris]

I averaged them, 19 out of 20 eggs hatching told me that was the correct thing to do.