CMP has just released info on 1911's

[William Yanda]

I just got an email from the CMP detailing how they will handle sales of the 1911's they expect to receive. Lots of hoops to jump through. Mail orders only accepted, and then only after an announced date. When they get 10,000 requests, a lottery will be established, etc.

[nagantguy]

Thank you for the heads up! Figure though I can buy 2 more 1911s and not have to hope for lottery luck. Any idea as to price?

[HATCH]

from what I read the lowest priced ones will be $750-$800

I need another 1911 like I need a hole in my head.

[vzerone]

So are these going to be thoroughly worn out? The price was higher then I thought it would be.

[TNsailorman]

Read the requirements for purchase. Talk about jumping through hoops to get something! No thanks, james

[thegatman]

You can buy a nice used Colt in great condition for the price of one of those 1911's.

[lefty o]

more than likely overpriced rattle traps. my guess is like everything else the cmp will cherry pick out the good ones and auction them off later.

[vzerone]

I sure wish they would have been able to get those M1 Garands a while back.

[HATCH]

You might be totally surprised.
I suspect that most of them have been gone thru the arsenal prior to being stored.

I have gone to many GOV auctions on duece and a half trucks. You would be surprised to find out that over 80% of the ones that were sold had just be rebuilt prior to being stored and then sold.

[nagantguy]

They probably will be rebuilt and checked over thoroughly before being sold,the dirtiest loseest worn out hard used things in the governments arsenal always go to the Marines after the other branches/agencies have thrown them away

[Char-Gar]

I got the USGI 45s out of my system many long year ago. I won't be joining the children in the feeding frenzy.

[lefty o]

They probably will be rebuilt and checked over thoroughly before being sold,the dirtiest loseest worn out hard used things in the governments arsenal always go to the Marines after the other branches/agencies have thrown them away

the 1911's we were still using in the navy in the 80's and 90's were in fairly sad shape.

[DougGuy]

I *had* a 1943 Colt, slide numbered to the frame, very choice old warhorse it got away and I missed it ever since. Built a GI 1911A1 with a Remington Rand WWII slide and NOS mil spec parts on an AO frame, shoots so well I don't miss NONE of the old slabside originals. For me it isn't the gun that went to war, it's the gun that memorializes those who carried it to war.

[William Yanda]

Only one a year, they said price would be set after they got some in and evaluated.

[Shepherd2]

I'm not going to get into the frenzy. The 1911s we had in the Navy in the early 60s were trash. Rusty and badly beaten up. I remember one that looked like someone had pounded nails with the rear sight. If the price is really $750-800 shop around and you can buy a nice brand new 1911 for that money.

[Speedo66]

They won't be shipping it directly to you, and you will have to go through TWO background checks. No transfers to C&R licenses. They can keep 'em.

Here's their requirements:


Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.
All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed.
Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a "proceed" from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer.
The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person at the FFL dealers place of business, successfully passing a NICS check performed by the FFL holder, before the pistol can be transferred. This is a second NICS check performed on the customer.
Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.
CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery.
Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one.
As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.

Note: 1911 type pistols purchased from CMP cannot be transferred to 03 FFL (curio and relic) license. BATF and the United States Army prefer the second background check be performed by a "store front" FFL dealer. Each customer purchasing a 1911 type pistol from CMP will be subjected to two NICS background checks, one performed by CMP and the other performed by the FFL dealer the pistol is being shipped to.

Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
Civilian Marksmanship Program

[Blanket]

they can keep them

[RPRNY]

They probably will be rebuilt and checked over thoroughly before being sold,the dirtiest loseest worn out hard used things in the governments arsenal always go to the Marines after the other branches/agencies have thrown them away


Thus the famous Marine saying "If we don't have it, the Army ain't done with it".

There is some, albeit wholly unsubstantiated, rumor that when the US armed forces were in the Philippines running around after the Huks (and Moros) in the early years of the last century, the Army were reissued SAA revolvers in 45 LC, but the Marines were given 44 Cal cap & ball Rogers & Spencers! It can't be true because by then the Rogers & Spencers had been sold to Bannon, but it certainly is apocryphal.

[junkbug]

I have seen pencil sketches (reproduced of course) of US National Guard troops escorting Moro prisoners carrying an old Starr percussion revolver.

[55fairlane]

Some 1911 info I got over the summer

CMP M1911A1 Status

Mr. Mark Johnson, the CMP Chief Operating Officer, gave the group of folks in the Range Officer Class some updates on the CMP’s M1911A1 Sales prospects. As those of you who have been following this know, it has been a real bureaucratic and political boondoggle and continues to be one.

But, the good news; the M1911A1’s are gathered up and packed in shipping containers, set aside awaiting the authorization to ship them to CMP. But, the picture gets more muddled from there.

The pistols need to be released by the Assistant Secretary of the Army (ASoA).

The previous authorizing legislation said that the ASoA “may” release them. The previous ASoA declined to do so for various internal and external reasons. This year’s enabling legislation says that the ASoA “will” release them, not a choice he needs to make. But – there is no ASoA; his appointment has been caught up in the decision of one political party to impede the functionality of the present administration in every way it can. Whoever is appointed is going to be buried and it is unlikely that these pistols are going to be one of his top priorities.

Then, there are all of the congressional roadblocks to the program.

Having an organization chartered by Congress (CMP) selling handguns to civilians gives the anti-gun people spasms. Whereas CMP can conduct an on-line background check and deliver an M1 rifle to your door; to sell M1911A1 pistols CMP had to register as an FFL holder – and M1911A1 sales and transfers will have to be done through an FFL holder. Reports continue to circulate that there will be sold on the Internet to anyone who signs up for them.

A further roadblock; one proposal is to only allow a small initial sale (maybe 5,000 pistols), then wait a year and see how many of these guns are traced through crime reports as having been used in crimes.

The people in Congress who have to act on these proposals do not know what an M1911A1 is; Mr. Johnson is making the rounds to the appropriate people telling the story “This is not a cheap pistol that Bubba is going to throw under the seat of his truck, it is a collector item that goes in a gun safe”.

Some other details:

CMP learned from M1 sales. There will be a one gun per year limit on sales. When they announce that the sales will start on x-date, they expect over 10K applications in the next mail delivery- seriously!

They are not going to be cheap, expect $800 and up depending on grade and manufacturer. The enabling legislation requires the CMP to sell these at “ … fair market value …”. Mr. Johnson made the comment “Let me know if you can find an original M1911A1 for under $500 anywhere and I’ll buy it”. Remington’s go for $800 -$900 +. A CMP 1911A1 may come in a collector case. The price will probably have an FFL transfer fee built into it – the buyer will not have to pay an additional transfer fee.

There may be a lot of pieces and parts that can be built up into CMP special grade pistols – to be seen. Look for an “as-issued M1911A1” match at the CMP National Pistol Matches.

He makes absolutely no prediction as to “when” – just that this probably will happen – whenever.

[Discus420]

CMP is a pain in the *** I wish they were a little more user friendly its great if your close to the stores....

[WJP]

I'll pass. To much junk to put up with when I can find them elsewhere. Not like they are the only 10k made.

[Moleman-]

Sure seems the cost started steadily going up once the privatized not for profit CMP took over from the DCM. The CMP is getting the firearms for free. I'm curious as to what their administrative costs are. I also miss the luck of the draw processing. My buddy and I once sent in our paperwork at the same time. He got a well used Springfield, and I got a IHC with a LMR barrel in great shape. Same cost. I fail to see how pricing a gun in a program meant to attract new shooters on one hand and teach new shooters on the other hand high enough that only collectors will bother getting them is keeping in line with what the program is all about? Seems more like corporate polices to me.

[lefty o]

it has been a long time since the cmp was about teaching new shooters.

[historicfirearms]

The CMP is still the best deal on a Garand. $730 shipped to your home in a nice case for a solid service grade rifle that has been completely checked over is a great deal today. The 1911s that they are getting may be a deal if you can get a WWII vintage usgi.

[lefty o]

The CAMP is still the best deal on a Garand. $730 shipped to your home in a nice case for a solid service grade rifle that has been completely checked over is a great deal today. The 1911s that they are getting may be a deal if you can get a WWII vintage usgi.

they are all WWII vintage or earlier. the gvmnt never had to order more after that due to the number made.

[Combat Diver]

If you just want a shooter 1911 then get a RIA gun and have fun. If you want a piece of American history this may be your chance. CMP prices are still below what USGI M1911A1 are going for in today's market. People forget markets fluctuates, called supply and demand. I carried a M1911A1 since 84' in the Army. Carried them in harms way in Haiti 95', Iraq 03-08' and in Astan 14'. Oct 03' took 250ea of them from depot to Iraq for 5th SFGA (hence the one's I carried there). The one I had in 08' had a dated 1916 Colt M1911 frame! In Afghanistan 14' those that we had from SOCOM were in excellent condition. My armament shop turned back into SOCOM this summer our 1911s from Astan (same one as 14') just before I came back out here. I just inspected 3 belonging to another SF group last month here also.

So for once the possibility of me possessing one of those I might have carried in anger presents itself. Can't buy the M16/M4/M14 ect that I carried ever (once a machine gun/always a machine gun). I will send in my paperwork to CMP when the time presents itself (seems I'm always in Astan when I buy CMP guns) I was not a police officer that has the possibility of retaining his issued arm. I was a soldier that Congress has forbidden me from retaining the arms of my profession when I retired. I can only hope that maybe in the next 20 yrs after the new M17/18s have been fielded, we may have a new NADA authorizing the sell of surplus M9/M11 pistols to the public also.

1943 Remington Rand on my hip in Iraq 04'-05'
209231

1916 dated Colt M1911 frame with a WWII Ithaca slide in Baghdad 08'
209232

M1911A1s in Astan 14', btm ctr is the one I carried, hence its cocked and locked as it hot just out of my holster for pic (44' Remington Rand)
209233

Still in Astan today
(rattle canned paint job )
209234
209235


I have a 03FFL also. Once CMP mails it to a 01 dealer, I'll have the 01 transfer it to my 03. CMP did not direct this. This is part of the secrutniy of Congress in the NADA/Army/BATFE.

CD

[dkf]

Sure seems the cost started steadily going up once the privatized not for profit CMP took over from the DCM. The CMP is getting the firearms for free. I'm curious as to what their administrative costs are. I also miss the luck of the draw processing. My buddy and I once sent in our paperwork at the same time. He got a well used Springfield, and I got a IHC with a LMR barrel in great shape. Same cost. I fail to see how pricing a gun in a program meant to attract new shooters on one hand and teach new shooters on the other hand high enough that only collectors will bother getting them is keeping in line with what the program is all about? Seems more like corporate polices to me.

It is what you end up with when the government gives an entity a monopoly. There was a 2015 tax return online a while ago. It was reported the top guys at the CMP made $300k+ to $400k+ per year. Plus all the fancy buildings they have been building.

What sticks in my craw (besides all the hoops to get a gun) is the statement from one of the CMP exects basically saying criminals buy pistols priced less than $800. Since the taxpayer paid for these pistols many many times over and what the CMP gets them for a starting price of $400 is more reasonable. Plenty of meat left on the bone for the CMP to make money even at that price. If a new shooter wants to start making holes in targets probably best off to buy a rifle from PSA or less expensive pistol and go shooting. Most gun clubs have means and members whom are more than willing to help out a new shooter get started and become a better shooter.

[Adam Helmer]

WOW! CMP will need: "150 days to inspect the pistols, post receipt." I heard the term "Feather Merchants" for government employees while in the USAF, and NOW I FINALLY see a very good example! I suppose they start work at noon, quit at 1:00 p.m. and "get an hour off for lunch.

Civilian government workers had a saying in the 1962-1966 era when I was enlisted. The civilians laughed and boasted. "Work ALWAYS EXPANDS to fit the time allotted." I could inspect all 10,000 pistols in 150 days by MYSELF! That would equate to 66.66 pistols per day or 8.33 per hour or 7.5 minutes for pistol. I can evaluate a pistol at my local gun shop to my satisfaction in under 7.5 minutes. Just Saying...

Wot a Country?

Adam

[Multigunner]

I'd read that the Marine Corp had purchased some newly manufactured 1911A1 pistols some years back, it being a favorite of their elite troops. Don't remember what troops got these. I think they were operating behind the lines in Afghanistan.

[Combat Diver]

I'd read that the Marine Corp had purchased some newly manufactured 1911A1 pistols some years back, it being a favorite of their elite troops. Don't remember what troops got these. I think they were operating behind the lines in Afghanistan.

Those were the Colt M45 pistol which was a railed M1911A1. They were withdrawn by MARSOC last year and replaced with the G19. I was in Iraq last year trying to get some 1911 parts stock piled so I could serve them, already had the Glock parts.

CD

[TAC14]

Have a retired DEA pal. They got 20 of these surplus 1911s. After all was said and done then ended up with 3 safe, serviceable pistols.

Why anyone would want one the "pieces and parts" 1911s escapes me. Remember back when these were good ones coming out of service Clinton had them all cut up.

[vzerone]

Back when I was in the CG the 1911 we had aboard ship were thoroughly worn out. You can only rebuild those pistols so many times. I feel this is one of the reasons the U.S. was looking for a new service pistol. Now if the CMP pistols are rebuildable and they offered them for a decent price, I feel they would be a good deal and welcome. Selling them to us citizens at a lower price is far better then cutting them up and melting them.

[fatelk]

Interesting, I was wondering what kind of ballpark numbers we would be looking at as far as price. I've bought several Garands over the years. My first was a field grade Springfield for $325 as I recall. They're a lot more than that now.

As much as I would like to have one of these 1911s, it looks like they will be priced well above what I can afford, or justify spending at least. If enough people are willing to pay the asking price so that they all sell, then I guess that's market value. There seems to be enough demand that I don't think they'll have much trouble selling them.

Is any old GI 1911 in any condition going for $800 and up now, market value? If so, there's no way I could justify buying one anywhere, and I suppose I really shouldn't expect a "good deal" from the CMP.

[dkf]

I'd read that the Marine Corp had purchased some newly manufactured 1911A1 pistols some years back, it being a favorite of their elite troops. Don't remember what troops got these. I think they were operating behind the lines in Afghanistan.

I swear I saw some of them on gunbroker a while back. Had USMC on them. They were going for prices that were way too rich for my blood.

[azrednek]

from what I read the lowest priced ones will be $750-$800

I need another 1911 like I need a hole in my head.

Hatch, like you I surely don't need another 1911. Being honest with myself, don't need another handgun. I would however like having a piece of history but at the price. Afraid I'm going to pass. I'm sure glad to see them for sale though and not being turned into scrap metal. My guess, anybody willing to jump through the red tape and shell out the bucks. Will appreciate and care for a part of history.

[varsity07840]

What would my 1943 made Colt 1911, not a rebuild, all Colt parts be worth? Excellent condition. My dad had it since 1944, passed to
me.

[Bigslug]

Is any old GI 1911 in any condition going for $800 and up now, market value? If so, there's no way I could justify buying one anywhere, and I suppose I really shouldn't expect a "good deal" from the CMP.

The reality is that a clean, mostly original Remington Rand (the most common option) starts at or above a thousand bucks these days. It could be worse; you could be into pre-Peacemaker Colt revolvers: This 1847 Walker could be yours for only $155,000 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/730474481

Such is the allure of The Real Thing. Though they have a lot of superior features, in the discussion of collector guns, the modern Springfields, Kimbers, Wilsons, Nighthawks, Baers, etc. . . are essentially Uberti clones of the period piece.

While you do see them on the line in the hands of the "Because I can" contingent, nobody's seriously competing with Garands outside of specialized period matches, and that's been the case since the late '90's - the AR-15 has pretty much surpassed anything the M1 can do in the 200/300/600 yard Service Rifle game. Likewise, the rarity of GI .45's and superior durability of modern steel combine to make it less desirable to start with a vintage pistol to build a heavy shooting match gun on.

So, although the DCM / CMP may have been founded for the promotion of competitive shooting, what they're selling has become almost purely of interest to collectors, and barely of interest to the pure competition or recreational shooter. CMP is simply playing to their current market. It really is a case of If the history of the thing means something to you, go ahead and play. If it doesn't, then you probably shouldn't.

[Multigunner]

The Remington rand was the original "Lunchbox special". A unacceptable percentage of early production frames did not meet dimensional interchangeability specs and were demilled by crushing the front of the frame where the spring case portion of the slide rides in a vice.
Enterprising workmen purloined some of these frames, heated and hammered them roughly back into shape, and assembled working 1911 pistols with no serial numbers from parts carried out of the factory in the same manner.

These pistols can be spotted by distorted and discolored areas at the front of the slide and/or cracks there or welds where cracks were repaired.

[CLAYPOOL]

You can't hardly beat the price on a ATI from the Philippians.. ( SPELLING")