Help with 120gr TC load with CFE pistol

[kurtis1555]

I recently bought some 9mm 120gr TCG hi-tek coated bullets off of bayou bullets and I am having some trouble finding a recipe for them with CFE pistol as the powder. I am using hodgdons CFE pistol in a canik tp9sfx with a 5.2 inch barrel with range brass and CCI primers.

I started off using the loads from hodgdons website and the recipe for a 115g LRN worked great. So for my 120gr TC I was going to use the recipe -15% for the 125gr LCN and work my way up until it functioned properly or started showing any signs of over pressure. when I created this round the recipe had the COL at 1.125 which as I figured out doesn't properly headspace in my gun. so I did some research and found out the some guns have their own max COL for a particular bullet to headspace properly. I did the "push test" (https://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0) with this bullet and the max COL for this bullet in my barrel is 1.087 then -15 thou so I would have to seat this bullet at 1.070.

now the recipe for the 125gr LCN is completely out of the question with a COL difference of .055. then I started looking for a similar weighted bullet with a similar length to keep the inner case space equal. the length of the 120gr TC is .533. I found this website (http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml) for lengths of bullets. the only other data hodgdons lists in this weight range is for a berrys 124gr HBRN, but the hollow base screws with keeping the inner case space equal, a 125gr hornady HAP, and a 125gr sierra FMJ which are both jacketed so their recipes are useless. there are so many variables to each recipe that ive given up on that idea completely and its probably too dangerous to try and fudge a recipe to work for me anyways. im now learning that I probably should of done some research on a more common pistol powder

so my question is now on you guys, do you have or have you found a recipe using a lead 120gr TN bullet seated around 1.070 with CFE pistol powder.

also if I cant find anything I assume my best course of action would be to buy a crono and work up a load starting with like 2gr of powder until it reaches a velocity that reliably functions my gun with no adverse pressure signs.
Im new at this reloading thing so if im just spouting a bunch of nonsense let me know, any advise is appreciated
thanks
kurtis

[tazman]

use the starting data on the Hodgdon site for the 125 grain LCN. It works fine for me.

[kurtis1555]

I can't find that data the only ones it lists on their website are a
115 speer golddot HP
115 LRN
124 Berry's
125 hornady HAP
125 seirra FMJ
125 LCN

The only ones that would be close to a LRN would be the Berry's and the LCN but they have a COL length of 1.150 and 1.125 which are both way different than my 1.070 that Im looking for.
Is there another place I should look at for hodgdons cfe pistol recipies, other than their own website

[JBinMN]

Welcome to the Castboolits.gunloads forum!
:)

I will try to help ya out a bit, but you are going to have to do a bit of research on your own.

Here is a good place to start looking. Just start at the top & work your way down the link list to see if you can find what ytou are looking for:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

My best suggestion is that you contact Hodgdon, or the bullet/boolit maker & ask them for guidance for your particular load setup.

G'Luck!
:)

[kurtis1555]

Ya I've already looked at all thoes links before I posted this

Shootersworld
Accurate powder
Vintaviuori
Grafs
Reloaders nest

All of thoes links are broken, but I don't think accurate or vintavuori will be any help
The only ones with data for cfe pistol is castpics reloaders reference which has the same ones as on hodgdons website, eggleston did have a load for a 124gr CRN (cast round nose? ) polycoat seated at a COL of 1.100

If I was to take this load and seat it to 1.070 would a 15% reduction in starting load be safe?

I have also already emailed bayou bulets and am waiting for a reply
Ill go ahead and email hodgdons and see what they think

Hodgdons also released a magazine back in 2014 with cfe pistol loads in it, but I assume they are the same as on their website
Thanks though. :)

[JBinMN]

Maybe try reading this topic( Found by using a search engine):
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?312054-OAL-of-a-125gr-lead-round-nose-9mm

& it may contain the info you want. I was going to type out how "I" would deal with this, but I am hesitant to share that sort of thing on the internet. Besides, someone may have already done it.
;)

I am surprised that you went thru that list of links already & did not find what ya seek. Or at least If you found links that were broken, please post in that topic saying which ones are faulty. Sometime later this early AM I will go check them out myself, if you do not. I am surprised you did not post about that there anyway. Something about having "broken links" or something so other would not have to do the work you already did in your searching them... Had I been sent to use them I would have taken the time to note which ones were bad so others would be able to go look for "replacements". Perhaps next time ya run across that sort of thing you will help out others by letting folks know, just like others try to help you here in your topic.
;)

G'Luck! once again! I am sure you will find what ya seek, without any more of my help. Eventually, others will come along & try I reckon.

---------------

ETA: Here is the info on the links ya mentioned. Some I just found replacements/corrected them. I will still go check the others later...

Shootersworld New page: https://shootersworldsc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Shooters-world-reloading-manual-12-16-16.pdf

Accurate powder currently not available. ( Prolly due to new info being added) http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

Vihtavuori New page: http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/about-reloading.html

Grafs (Vectan powder) is now a downloadable pdf file: https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/20

Reloaders nest: Website is down/dead http://website.informer.com/reloadersnest.com

[tazman]

I can't find that data the only ones it lists on their website are a
115 speer golddot HP
115 LRN
124 Berry's
125 hornady HAP
125 seirra FMJ
125 LCN

The only ones that would be close to a LRN would be the Berry's and the LCN but they have a COL length of 1.150 and 1.125 which are both way different than my 1.070 that Im looking for.
Is there another place I should look at for hodgdons cfe pistol recipies, other than their own website

Use the start data for the 125 LCN and work up to the velocity you want.

[kurtis1555]

ok cool! the load data for the 125 LCN from hodgdons and the 124 CRN from eggleston kinda line up together so I think ill start close to those and work my way up until the function well, I cant do any real testing for velocity until I manage to get my hands on a chronograph. I got a call back from bayou bullets and he basically said that its not rocket science and im kinda over complicating everything

but ya thanks for all the info guys its really helped me think things through, Ill update with my load data and how they work out later on in the week

[tazman]

Just a tip for starting out. Don't load up large quantities until you test some of them.
Pulling a bunch of truncated cone boolits out of 9mm cases with an impact puller is not an enjoyable time.

[kurtis1555]

Just a tip for starting out. Don't load up large quantities until you test some of them.
Pulling a bunch of truncated cone boolits out of 9mm cases with an impact puller is not an enjoyable time.

ya that doesn't sound fun, im probably going to do 10 each with .2 grain increments and go from there

[tazman]

Sounds like a plan to me.

[kurtis1555]

just a little update I went to the range to test out my loads
I tested 10 rounds of each

120gr TC seated to 1.070 with 4.0-4.2-4.4 gr of cfe pistol out of my canik tp9sfx

the 4.0gr and 4.2gr failed to extract the spent casing and the 4.4gr, if it didn't stovepipe it just barely pooted the case out

so it looks like eggleston munitions load data was pretty close, im going to do another set working up to 5.0gr which is what I use with my 115gr RN from bayou bullets

my cases were very dirty and blackened after shooting these lower power loads, is this just a problem with the low power or is it just an attribute of the powder im using?
also I ended up with some pretty bad leading after shooting the 30 test loads and 70 of some other bayou bullets, so I slugged my barrel and came out with .357 next time I order from them ill see if they can size them to .358

[tazman]

The higher powder charges should clear up your function and dirty case problems.
I went through my records and found that I have used 5.0 grains of CFE Pistol with both 120tc and 125 RN boolits with good results. My chronograph data was 1150fps for that load. This would have been in a Beretta 92fs.
Any more I load all my 9mm sized to .358 by default. This functions well in all my 9mm pistols from feed, fire, and accuracy standpoints.

[docmagnum357]

Welcome to HANDLOADING vs RELOADING. I have had the same trouble with the TC bullets from Lee. No one has a similar bullet or Boollit we can assume will give similar pressures. It would be easy to poo poo your concerns about over pressure, but those concerns are most valid.
What I always do is just what you did; consult all the sources I could find, start slowly and carefully with what I was sure would be a light charge, and work up.
The TC boolits from Lee have the advantage of functioning in about anything. I love the 120 grain in my 9mms as well as my 38 special revolvers. I recently bought a 230 grain mold for my 1911/ 625. Always the same problem , though. Commercial boollits and bullets are very seldom this shape so data is rare. I have always had great luck as far a reliability, and accuracy might not be the very best, but it is always good or better. If it matters, I think a TC or RNFN will kill better than the best hollow points. You get tissue disruption as well as penetration. WHile they don't make the same kind of nice , neat holes as a semiwadcutter theydo make prettier holes than a RN. I like em'.

[JT78]

I know it's a different bullet but I'm running a 122gr tc sized .356 from rimrock seated at 1.060 I'm running 4.8gr of cfe pistol and have tried 5.0gr as well but I like the lower recoil of the 4.8gr I do get a little more black soot on my brass at 4.8 but the gun cycles them well and they are accurate.

[Shingle]

I have used that bullet and powder 4.7gr. CFE Pistol 124gr. tc out of glock 34 gave me 1135 fps and it is below max. I like the powder its does not take up alot of case space. Downside smokey and louddd. Good luck.

[kurtis1555]

yes thats about what I was running and yes very smokey. but are there powders that are less loud? i didnt notice it being any louder than stardard factory loads

[tazman]

If you want louder, try Longshot. It gives high velocity and a lot of muzzle blast.
For quieter loads, use Bullseye, Red Dot, Clays, and Titegroup with published starting loads. These will work the pistol and give you less velocity with the starting loads but they will be somewhat quieter and have less flash..