"Short and Stout" for the Shockwave and 500/590 crowd.

[RMc]

Just noticed this:

The Dec. 2017 issue of the American Rifleman contains loading data for a 2" twenty pellet #4B 12 gauge load on page 39. This is data for a simple 1100 fps roll crimped load, with a 1.75" loaded length, for those wanting to pack the maximum number of low recoil close range buckshot rounds into their Mossberg Shockwave firearm or 500/590 series shotgun.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ar_201712/index.php#/40


https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/12/19/latest-loads-12-ga-2-inch-shotshell/

[Combat Diver]

Thank you

CD

[M-Tecs]

Same thanks.

[JBinMN]

Thanks for sharing the info & link!
:)

[longbow]

Yes, thanks for that! It is always good to add more info to the library especially when it is is "different" info like this. Variety is the spice of life!

Longbow

[RMc]

The look of of a 1.75 inch long 12 bore cartridge would really shake up some preconceived notions, especially if loaded in a hull with *25MM high brass!

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Cheddite-12ga-275-25mm-ultra-brass-primed_skived-bag_100/productinfo/139127025/

* Almost 1 inch!

[TAC14]

The shockwave needs an adapter to shoot short shells. The Rem 870 Tac14 does not. With deals and rebate the Rem is about $280. Also has magpul pump that lets you install magpul rail(s) for lights/lasers etc.

[M-Tecs]

I have two Remington Tac 14's. Not sure what they are good for but having tons of fun. I have shot trap with mine. I average 16. Shot one goose with it. 3 inch steel goose loads are snappy.

[TAC14]

My cantilevered 870 24" rifled barrel fits right on too ! Could put a pistol scope on it too.

[vzerone]

I have two Remington Tac 14's. Not sure what they are good for but having tons of fun. I have shot trap with mine. I average 16. Shot one goose with it. 3 inch steel goose loads are snappy.

Well let's see, either you have Mafia geese or terrorists! :kidding:

[TAC14]

What you can do with the MAGPUL forend on the Remington TAC14 that you can't on the Shockwave.

209742

[Blood Trail]

I had the Tac14 and sold it a week later later and bought the 590 Shockwave. Wasn’t a fan of the Tac14, but that’s just me. Should of saved myself the trouble and went with the original instead of the Remington copy.


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[TAC14]

Whatever floats your boat. Show us you light and laser setup on the Shockwave.

[Blood Trail]

Whatever floats your boat. Show us you light and laser setup on the Shockwave.

Do you really need a laser that shatter gun? I mean, how pin point precise do you plan on shooting buckshot from a shorty? And the position of your red dot scope is questionable. You aiming sideways ‘gangsta’ style?

I didn’t buy mine to ‘tacti-cool’ the hell out it, I got other toys for that. But if you’re happy with yours, then good on ya, but I’m speaking from experience with owning both.

The only thing I’ll do to mine is put wood furniture on it.


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[M-Tecs]

I got mine to have fun with. I use it as a toy and I no intention of using it for home defense but if I do it will have a laser on it. Even as a toy a laser would make it way more fun. Shot from the hip it's surprisingly easy to miss.

[TAC14]

10-4 M-Tecs. Home or night-time weapons w/o a laser and light are as useful as teats on a boar-hog.

My new light that arrived yesterday from amazon is very small, runs constant on for 45 minutes, bright center wide fringe, strobe and spot feature.

Military already experimenting with daylight laser good to 500 yards. What will we do with all those scopes ?

[megasupermagnum]

I had the Tac14 and sold it a week later later and bought the 590 Shockwave. Wasn’t a fan of the Tac14, but that’s just me. Should of saved myself the trouble and went with the original instead of the Remington copy.


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Come on, let them have their fun. The rest of us can just chuckle softly, I mean, look at that thing. :lol:

I have been curious though. What appeal does the shockwave have with its nub of a grip, compared to the same thing with a real pistol grip they have been selling for 20+ years?

[M-Tecs]

I have been curious though. What appeal does the shockwave have with its nub of a grip, compared to the same thing with a real pistol grip they have been selling for 20+ years?

A legal 14 inch barrel that is not a nfa item.

[megasupermagnum]

So you give up interchangeable barrels, a (semi) useful grip, just to loose those extra 4" of barrel? What ever floats your boat, they sure seem to be selling. I'd bet it would be a ton of fun as a range toy, but I don't see it being very useful. I've got a 500 with pistol grip an 18.5" barrel. Even that was useless for self defense. I put a real stock on it, and it's been sitting by my bed since. I had a flashlight mounted on it via barrel band, but took it off. I just hold it with my pumping hand and it does fine.

[Combat Diver]

So you give up interchangeable barrels, a (semi) useful grip, just to loose those extra 4" of barrel? What ever floats your boat, they sure seem to be selling. I'd bet it would be a ton of fun as a range toy, but I don't see it being very useful. I've got a 500 with pistol grip an 18.5" barrel. Even that was useless for self defense. I put a real stock on it, and it's been sitting by my bed since. I had a flashlight mounted on it via barrel band, but took it off. I just hold it with my pumping hand and it does fine.

Shockwave is just a firearm according to ATF. Its a new way to get the smallest package without the NFA nonsense. Sort of a way to say, yeah all the rules are stupid anyway. They all should be legal for us free men/woman and all should just be classified as arms.

CD

[marlin39a]

Thank you RMc for this thread. I missed the article in AR. I bought the Shockwave over the Tac14 for its ability to shoot mini shells with the adapter. It is a fun gun to shoot, and draws plenty of attention when out and about. I do carry a copy of the BATF papers with it, in case of police intervention. Other than reliability with mini shells, it's like the old Ford/Chevy argument.

[TAC14]

Three points:

The TAC14 works fine with mini shells, examples are all over UTube.

You DO NOT give up barrel swaps. Any 870 bbl fits the TAC14.

W/O a light and laser, you must either try and aim using the bead sight or spray and pray from the hip. With a light and laser you have dead on aiming and the ability to shoot from behind barricades with minimal exposure. Get the Crimson Trace DVD if you doubt this. The strobe function on a tac light also messes up most adversaries, especially those on drugs.

Sorry you missed the Remington rebate, now it costs as much as the Mossberg !

[megasupermagnum]

Three points:

The TAC14 works fine with mini shells, examples are all over UTube.

You DO NOT give up barrel swaps. Any 870 bbl fits the TAC14.

W/O a light and laser, you must either try and aim using the bead sight or spray and pray from the hip. With a light and laser you have dead on aiming and the ability to shoot from behind barricades with minimal exposure. Get the Crimson Trace DVD if you doubt this. The strobe function on a tac light also messes up most adversaries, especially those on drugs.

Sorry you missed the Remington rebate, now it costs as much as the Mossberg !

You have a circus hanging off that gun. :rolleyes:

[Blood Trail]

On lawd....[emoji23]


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[TAC14]

As recoil may be an issue with these short bbled guns, I'll pass along a helper:

http://wittmachine.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=185

[W.R.Buchanan]

I wonder how many are putting regular Butt Stocks on their Shockwaves? that would get you that SBS you've been wanting. I know the AFT has now allowed the Sig Arm Brace on AR's now, but you aren't supposed to shoulder the firearm? Like any body would know?

Time to get rid of a lot of these stupid rules. Write your Congressman with your ideas and we might just get some movement. 50 State CCW Reciprocity might be a reality soon.

I'd write to my Congressman but She is an Idiot Democrat and was bought and paid for by Nancy P.

Randy

[RMc]

Shouldering a pistol stabilizing brace policy reversal:

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/atf-clarifies-ruling-pistol-stabilizing-braces/

[TAC14]

Finally got a selection of shells to try in my TAC14.
First: don't shoot full power 00 buck. It's really uncomfortable.
The mini shells worked but not perfectly. In 20 I had one failure to eject and one empty dropped back in action causing a jam.
The Hornady 2&3/4 reduced recoil shells worked perfectly for 20 rounds. At 10,15 and 20 yards they really killed the "blue man" (UN approved target).
Having the laser make accurate shooting very easy, from hip, over a barrier and so on. If you can put the dot on it, you will kill it.
Waiting for my reduced recoil slugs to arrive. Will try them with 14" SB and 20" rifled bbls.

The gun is so much fun, we should take up a collection to buy one for Hillary !

[faustus]

...

The only thing I’ll do to mine is put wood furniture on it.



Blood Trail, that is exactly what I was thinking .... I just love wood!

Do you know of a supplier/company that makes that stock/grip and foreend in wood?

[TAC14]

Kinda like putting 4X walnut on the shovel I use to muck out the stalls.......

[Blood Trail]

Blood Trail, that is exactly what I was thinking .... I just love wood!

Do you know of a supplier/company that makes that stock/grip and foreend in wood?

Found these on ebay:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/MOSSBERG-590-SHOCK-WAVE-CORNCOB-FOREND-WOOD-STOCK-SHOTGUN-BIRD-HEAD-Grips-/182784328580


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[TAC14]

Made out of Ash from Thailand and out of stock. (Spent a year there and never saw an Ash tree)

ATF might take a dim view of any modification from OEM.

Be patient, I'm sure there will be a muddy girl camo one out soon.

[TAC14]

And no one cares about what somebody who has never seen one says either.

[TAC14]

And no one cares about what somebody who has never seen one says either.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Made out of Ash from Thailand and out of stock. (Spent a year there and never saw an Ash tree)

ATF might take a dim view of any modification from OEM.

Be patient, I'm sure there will be a muddy girl camo one out soon.OAL is what matters, not OEM. You could also use the Blackhawk breacher grip, and I suspect a brace would be kosher.

[TAC14]

From the ATF letter to Mossberg:

“If the design, dimensions,configuration, method of operation or materials used were changed, our determination would be subject to review.

Note: materials and would.

Could you get away with it ? Probably but I would not want to have my gun seized, hire a lawyer and get in a fight with ATF.

Then the full force of the government would have you in its sights. Warrants to NSA to recover every word and keystroke, IRS reviewing your tax filings, FBI looking at every NICs form you ever filled out and that doesn’t even begin to cover referrals to your state/city agencies.

Were Ruby Ridge and Waco wrong ? Yup, but all the dead people are still dead and no one was held accountable.

Remember what Gump said--------:popcorn:

[W.R.Buchanan]

From the ATF letter to Mossberg:

“If the design, dimensions,configuration, method of operation or materials used were changed, our determination would be subject to review.

Note: materials and would.

Could you get away with it ? Probably but I would not want to have my gun seized, hire a lawyer and get in a fight with ATF.

Then the full force of the government would have you in its sights. Warrants to NSA to recover every word and keystroke, IRS reviewing your tax filings, FBI looking at every NICs form you ever filled out and that doesn’t even begin to cover referrals to your state/city agencies.

Were Ruby Ridge and Waco wrong ? Yup, but all the dead people are still dead and no one was held accountable.

Remember what Gump said--------:popcorn:

I somehow doubt they would bother with all the background check on you. I think they would just seize your gun and give you the finger. But only if they found out you had it and had done something wrong with it first.

I think they have way better things to do with their time. I talk to them every year at the SHOT Show and they are actually pretty laid back. They have no interest in making Criminals out of regular guys, they have plenty of bad guys to chase as it is.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

I just did about 45 minutes of reading on whether or not you can put a real stock on the shockwave. I read arguments about if it was a AOW's, federal title 1, "firearm", etc. It could be different based on state, and California it is likely a SBS. All I got out of it was a headache. All I know is my old persuader with 18.5" barrel and pistol grip is about the same OAL. All the shockwave (or tac 14) gets you is more muzzle blast as you give the middle finger to the BATFE.

Yeah, the pistol grip can be fun, and effective, but I can shoot a full stock at least twice as fast, with more accuracy. I'll take that any day.

[BAGTIC]

The "36 gauge" shotgun cartridge is also not a "gauge" It is another misnamed gauge that is actually the 410 under another name.

[TAC14]

I just did about 45 minutes of reading on whether or not you can put a real stock on the shockwave. I read arguments about if it was a AOW's, federal title 1, "firearm", etc. It could be different based on state, and California it is likely a SBS. All I got out of it was a headache. All I know is my old persuader with 18.5" barrel and pistol grip is about the same OAL. All the shockwave (or tac 14) gets you is more muzzle blast as you give the middle finger to the BATFE.

Yeah, the pistol grip can be fun, and effective, but I can shoot a full stock at least twice as fast, with more accuracy. I'll take that any day.

Yet another expert who has never seen or shot either.

They work fine with reduced recoil loads and are perfect for close encounters. With the laser on mine, I can kill a UN blue man every shot at 20 yards from the hip. Far more effective than any handgun. All I lack is a "Bounty Hunter" holster.

[megasupermagnum]

A good shooter is effective well past 20 yards with a handgun. Ive shot my 500 with pistol grip plenty. It shoots, but a handgun is better. A real shotgun is better yet. Enjoy your tac14, but dont make it something its not.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I just did about 45 minutes of reading on whether or not you can put a real stock on the shockwave. I read arguments about if it was a AOW's, federal title 1, "firearm", etc. It could be different based on state, and California it is likely a SBS. All I got out of it was a headache. All I know is my old persuader with 18.5" barrel and pistol grip is about the same OAL. All the shockwave (or tac 14) gets you is more muzzle blast as you give the middle finger to the BATFE.

Yeah, the pistol grip can be fun, and effective, but I can shoot a full stock at least twice as fast, with more accuracy. I'll take that any day.

Any combination of stock and barrel less than 16 inches (18" for a smooth bore) is an NFA firearm, either SBR or SBS. ATF lays all this out in the "NFA Handbook" on their website, with citations for each section of the NFA. State laws may be more relaxed, but you're still subject to the federal law.

[TAC14]

All you have to do is google the ATF's letter to Mossberg to get the facts.

[megasupermagnum]

Any combination of stock and barrel less than 16 inches (18" for a smooth bore) is an NFA firearm, either SBR or SBS. ATF lays all this out in the "NFA Handbook" on their website, with citations for each section of the NFA. State laws may be more relaxed, but you're still subject to the federal law.

Not true, the Mossberg shockwave or Remington TAC14 are NOT SBS's. This has been covered in this thread.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Not true, the Mossberg shockwave or Remington TAC14 are NOT SBS's. This has been covered in this thread.They are not because they do not have a stock. If you out a stock on it, it becomes an SBS unless you also put on a 18" barrel, which is why I specified that a combination of a barrel under 18" and stock made an SBS.

[M-Tecs]

Neither one are shotguns. Both are listed as "other firearms" on the 4473.

https://www.ffl123.com/no-nonsense-non-nfa-14-inch-scatterguns/

http://havokjournal.com/national-security/defense/tac14/

[megasupermagnum]

If those articles are correct, you could put an 18"+ barrel on with a full stock legally, but it would then be illegal to put the shorter barrel back on, even with the nub of a grip. That's government logic right there. Myself, if I had a desire for a shotgun that small, I'd just register the thing as a SBS.

Anyway, this thread is about "mini" shells. Thanks for posting those links.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Neither one are shotguns. Both are listed as "other firearms" on the 4473.

https://www.ffl123.com/no-nonsense-non-nfa-14-inch-scatterguns/

http://havokjournal.com/national-security/defense/tac14/Yep. It becomes a shotgun when you put a stock on it, same as my AR9 "firearm" becomes a rifle (temporarily) when I swap to the carbine upper and stock. It ceases to be a rifle when I remove the stock, put the brace back, and then (in that order) switch back to the 7" barrel.

Think about it logically, ATF doesn't mind if a more restricted/highly taxed firearm is temporarily or permanently converted to a less restricted or taxed configuration, but they don't want people going and buying rifles (lower excise tax, retail sales at 18) to pistols (higher excise tax, retail sale at age 21) to digde the tax and age restrictions. Florida (I have not checked MO, as I'm not a dealer here) required that stripped frames, receivers, and other "firearms" (not shotgun, pistol, or rifle) only be sold retail to person's over the age of 18 for the same reason.

Sorry to derail from the short shells, but I'd hate to see someone yoked up because they thought they found a loophole. Unless you have a highly paid accountant saying you're good, it's best not to assume you've found a way to avoid paying taxes.

[Blood Trail]

[emoji23]


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