Need help with 265 grain bullet for .44 special

[Swagerman]

Anyone know of loading manuals that show the .44 special being used with 265 grain bullets?

The only one I have is an old Hodgdon's #22 book that shows 265 grain using 7.0 grains of HS6 powder = 833 fps velocity and 14,700 CUP.

While HS6 is a good powder, I would like to branch out into Trail Boss, Clays, and maybe 2400 powder. Only thing is, the 2400 powder don't show any .44 bullets at 265 grains...who does these days?

Is there a website that might have some listings to that heavy of a bullet for .44 special.

Trying to stay with clean burning powders if I can.

Thanks for any help on it.

Jim

Shot these yesterday, loaded by guess and by golley...


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC200018Addtext265GrA716Xtextadded2.jpg

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wow, Jim. Looks like you're in a bind and without much help, even from this knowledgeable group...

Of course, you know the problem... You're shooting a pretty heavy boolit from a mild cartridge, and most of the data for that bore and boolit weight is for the magnum...

I did find ONE place with honest-to-gosh real loading manual data for your combination, and it was a strange place at that. The VihtaVouri manual has seven loads for the 44 Spl. with a 267gr LFN boolit. N320, N330, N340, and N350 were featured powders. The hottest loads with the last three powders all hit around 925fps out of a 6" barrel. Below are the MAXIMUM loads:

N320...6.0grs...860 fps
N330...6.9grs...922 fps
N340...7.3grs...925 fps
N350...8.0grs...925 fps

Now, the VV powders are quite clean burning, but they're also expensive... If I wanted some load data with cheaper/more available powders, I MIGHT look at a burning rate chart to give me some ideas on where to start. [smilie=1:

[Swagerman]

I'm looking to buy some VV powder in the N350 lot, but can't find a thing locally here. Checked the local area up to 90 miles away...nothing available, will try and order some from a local fellow.

That 925 fps range is just about what I was looking for with my 265 grain bullet.

Would be nice to know the CUP range though. Hope its below 15,000...that wouldn't put too much of a strain on my Taurus.

I priced some VihtaVouri from a local dealer, but he only had one two pound keg, and it was none of the lot I need for the .44 special loads. It was a little over $40.00 for two pound keg, that is a good deal compared to American brands of $27.00 for merely one pound of powder.

Thanks for posting.


Jim

[EDK]

The August 2005 issue of HANDLOADER has an excellent article on loading 44 Specials. Send me a PM with your snail mail address and I'll copy it for you, either at home with my *** HP or at work with one of theirs' after the holiday.

YOUR 429244 weights about 10 grains more than mine....or the LYMAN cast boolit book quotes AND sized to .432 probably increases the pressure also...that's the diameter that I size some boolits to for MARLIN rifles.

I recently acquired a Smith & Wesson 624 with a 6.5 inch barrel....and have been using mostly TITEGROUP for Cowboy loads in Original Size 44 VAQUEROS/BISLEY VAQUEROS. It burns clean and it's inexpensive ($108 plus tax for an 8 pound can.) I've got leftover UNIQUE and 231 to play with...might pick up some HERCO for handgun loads and 2400 for my MARLIN rifles.

There is a well stocked gun shop less than 10 miles away that has a wide variety of powder and other components...no great bargain prices, but you have to pay for his inventory! 35 miles to GRAFS in St Charles MO and better prices; 100 miles to GRAFS in Mexico MO or MIDWAYUSA in Columbia MO. PLUS the gun shows around St Louis. I know I have it made compared to a lot of other reloaders.

:castmine::cbpour::redneck:

[Swagerman]

EDK, PM sent for loading tables.

Thanks, Jim :drinks:

[Swagerman]

EDK, you are the man. Your color copy of the August/Sept. 2005 issue arrived in the mail today. It is as good as having the magazine itself...many thanks for your trouble in compiling it.

I've got some VhitaVouri N 330 powder the other day, and will be putting some 265 grain heavy bullet loads together with it.

I also bought another bottle of Trail Boss, the price went up to $18.00 for a mere 9 oz...it use to around $14.00 last year.

Thanks again for the information that will be very useful to me.

Jim

[EDK]

Glad to help.

My used IDEAL mould 431244s are 250 grains, lubed with gas check. The RANCH DOG TLC 432 265s ran 276 grains, dip lubed with ALOX and gas checked. My SAECO hardness tester said 14 Brinnel hardness today on the alloy.

I ran a bunch of the RANCH DOGS through my 5.5 inch 44 BISLEY VAQUERO and a 20 inch MARLIN 44 Cowboy rifle over the week end. Very impressive. The BISLEY barrel was cleaner after 20 rounds than before I started...a bit of leading from previous use. First time I had dip lubed with ALOX, per the RANCH DOG tutorial sticky. They grouped under 1.5 inches and hit to point of aim at 25 yards.

I'd been using 7.5 of UNIQUE with the 431244s, so I just changed the seating depth for the RD boolit. It is a round nose, flat point, designed for MARLIN lever guns, but has worked well in every handgun I've used it in. The nose is a bit shorter than the semi wadcutters and would work well in a speed loader also.

Good luck with your load testing. Helping each other is what the forums are all about.

:Fire::redneck::cbpour:

[NSP64]

Swagerman , I must have missed this post I load lee.430 swc dip lubed with alox over12.5gr 2400 for 950fps. i use the boolit without the GC and get '0' leading:drinks:

[Swagerman]

What is the bullet weight of a Lee 430 swc bullet? Probably a 240 grain, is that right.

I'm using Lyman #429244 GC that drop from my mould at 265 grain.

Just trying to use up some GC bullets I've had for awhile.

Jim

[JudgeBAC]

I am having similar issues with a Lew Horton 624 3" stainless in .44 special. It has cavernous throats .4335 which required finding a large bullet which I acquired from a member here (A Paul Jones custom mold throwing a 260 gr. .4345 bullet).

So far I have had so-so success with Unique and 5744 which is way too slow for this application i.e. many grains of unburned powder.

I have not tried V V powder nor have I tried any fast burning powders. Ed Harris over at the CBA forum recommended bullseye stating that with heavy bullets and short barrels it worked very well.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the short barrel heavy bullet problem?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi Judge!

There are several aspects. I'm sure you already know most or all of them, but it never hurts to re-cover familiar ground in case something was forgotten or overlooked.

First off, faster powders do work better in shorter barrels for a bunch of reasons: 1. The faster burn utilizes the stored energy in the powder more efficiently for a short barrel. (Slower powders would burn some part of the energy out in the atmosphere after the boolit has left the barrel thereby not utilizing that stored, potential energy as effeciently as a quicker powder that burned inside the barrel.)
2. The faster powder builds pressure quicker thereby giving the powder it's best chance of being consumed completely in the shorter barrel. (Opposite of the problem you've been having with 5744.) Keep in mind though, that unburned powder granules are sometimes a characteristic of the powder and it's chemistry, and have nothing to do with rate or effeciency of consumption.
3. The faster powder will provide less muzzle blast and flash, because it is burning less high-energy flammables outside the gun in the atmosphere.

Second, slower powders will still usually give higher velocities in shorter barrels than faster powders. This is because of the way the pressure curve works on the bullet during it's time in the barrel. Where you lose a lot with that short barrel is that the slower powders will develop even more velocity in a longer barrel than they will in the short one. You'll want to find a happy medium of performance vs. blast/flash/unburned powder, probably somewhere around Unique or Herco, for optimum performance.

Third, other issues that can cause dirtiness are lack of strong enough crimp and/or lack of enough bullet tension in the case neck. The more resistence the bullet provides against the powder, the better the consumption. Again however, keep in mind that the chemical make-up of some powders just make them not consume every last little granule of powder. (2400, Unique, etc.)

I think you can use any fast powder to get a workable load for your 3" Lew Horton. I use W231 (at 7.5grs for a moderate load of about 850fps) for short and long-barrelled 44 Mags. For your purposes, if you want higher performance, I'd use Herco and understand that there are going to be some unburnt/unconsumed granules of powder left in the bore. It's nothing to really worry about. The next shot blows the previous shots' unburned granules out the barrel (probably with air pressure before the bullet ever touches them).

There's no harm leaving smokeless residue in the barrel such as there is with black powder, which, if left in the barrel would attract moisture. Smokeless powder is no where near the problem that black is in this respect. I keep bore snakes in the three common bore sizes I shoot in my range bag. Running a bore snake with a light amount of oil on it through the bore is about the only cleaning my pistols get, and none of them have any rust in the bore. (My duty guns have a few spots here and there on the outside of them though.... Dang working in the rain, snow, rivers, etc....)

[shdwlkr]

dang
now you guys have me wondering what my lee 6 holer in 255 grain 44 caliber throws for bullets? As to loads I am still thinking on that issue as most reloading manuals now only go to 240 grain for the 44 special but like Keith thought I know I can shoot the 255 grain bullet in my 44 special and it work just fine when I get the bugs out.
I thought going to 255 grains was a big leap but 265 really is getting up there now I may have to find a mold for that size you guys are a really bad influence on me and really cuts into my pennys these days.

[MakeMineA10mm]

dang
now you guys have me wondering what my lee 6 holer in 255 grain 44 caliber throws for bullets? As to loads I am still thinking on that issue as most reloading manuals now only go to 240 grain for the 44 special but like Keith thought I know I can shoot the 255 grain bullet in my 44 special and it work just fine when I get the bugs out.
I thought going to 255 grains was a big leap but 265 really is getting up there now I may have to find a mold for that size you guys are a really bad influence on me and really cuts into my pennys these days.

Aren't you already in on my 44 Keith Group Buy??? It's a Keith SWC that should weigh around 260-265grs, depending on how Lee cuts them and your alloy.